i would like to post my custom cube for critique and i know more people will look at it and give useful feedback if i include pictures and/or an mse file. is one or both of these against the rules?
Discussing how to physically make these will get you suspended. Trading or selling these will get you banned. Posting an image of a card is fine.
Consider that Wizards of the Coast is in the business of selling Magic cards to you. You're telling them that you use knockoffs because you do not want them* to get all your money for the real thing. If they should take notice of you, do not expect them to be impressed by this line of reasoning.
*Or the secondary traders who in turn buy from them.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Consider that Wizards of the Coast is in the business of selling Magic cards to you. You're telling them that you use knockoffs because you do not want them* to get all your money for the real thing. If they should take notice of you, do not expect them to be impressed by this line of reasoning.
*Or the secondary traders who in turn buy from them.
-Still nothing about Having alternate artwork.
They only distribution that affects the cards that would be Proxy'd would be cards coming from boosters not in run anymore. Cards that are only being sold by a Secondary Market.
Secondary Mark =/= Wizards of the cost.
The actual Values of these cards aren't set by Wizards. They have almost NO control over the secondary Market. Its not (Completely) their fault Alpha Lands ETC are $100+ etc.
So in a sense this isn't a hurt for Wizards $$, but the secondary market, which would be Card Shops, and Scrooge McDuck Collectors.
I can not go to wizards and purchase an Alpha Land from them.
1. They don't have any to sell.
2. They would look like idiots trying to sell MSRP Cardboard for $100
3. They cannot receive money for A Card Shop, or Collector, Selling an Alpha Land.
Please don't try to convince me (Or Others For the love of all that is good) that my creation of a proxy Tiaga, that I Didn't Purchase from a Card Shop or such, is bleeding wizards dry of money.
Proxies of Reserved List cards don't cost WotC a penny of lost income, because they've already stated that they're never going to produce those cards again. Which also means that the only way to procure a paper version of stuff like alternate art Power 9 is to proxy it. I, for one, would happily purchase "real" versions of those cards, but it isn't an option.
There is an aspect of US law that allows a person to challenge a copyright if there has been no effort to enforce it. I am not a lawyer so I do not know the particulars, but as I understand it if there is a long enough history of allowing free replication then it can be argued that it is in the public domain. A corporation need not take a person to court, any legal communication that states that you are in violation of copyright will be enough, like a C&D. So essentially Wizards enforces it's copyright because it wants to keep it's copyright.
The problem is that you are still using copyrighted material if you have the same background art, mana and tap symbols, and borders. That is copyrighted art so it does not matter at all that you have changed the art to your favorite hentai cutie.
^^
I've heard the same explanation you give, for the reserved list..
Then you would agree Magic conceptually as a Game though, assumes, that players will utilize any combination of cards?
Collectable is an evil word to methinks. I do though, see your point
But then if people don't sell them(In a perfect world I know), what harm is there?
I can only think of the integrity of the production,(see, Counterfeit Yugioh Cards, Everywhere almost Playable)
Seems like a scale..
What would be good freedom for the game vs what retains value/integrity.
I personally believe that any card played should actually be owned. While understandable you wouldn't want to shuffle a P9 with the rest of your deck, you shouldn't have 3 decks with a proxy of the ONE lotus you own.
This very much causes angst for players like myself, who work hard to trade or purchase 2x 3x 4x of a card as needed for our decks. This is the harm that I can see - it certainly doesn't uphold the integrity of the game
I personally believe that any card played should actually be owned. While understandable you wouldn't want to shuffle a P9 with the rest of your deck, you shouldn't have 3 decks with a proxy of the ONE lotus you own.
This very much causes angst for players like myself, who work hard to trade or purchase 2x 3x 4x of a card as needed for our decks. This is the harm that I can see - it certainly doesn't uphold the integrity of the game
How's that different then pulling one card out of a deck and into another. Usually decks use different sleeves. Doing all that in-out, in-out will cause damage (believe me *wink*)
I hate proxies. But if I know that you own a moat and it's in deck A, I don't expect you to risk damaging it by having to swap all the time because you also run it in deck B.
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The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
How's that different then pulling one card out of a deck and into another. Usually decks use different sleeves. Doing all that in-out, in-out will cause damage (believe me *wink*)
I hate proxies. But if I know that you own a moat and it's in deck A, I don't expect you to risk damaging it by having to swap all the time because you also run it in deck B.
The difference is your actually taking it out of one deck, and putting it in another. Not copying as if you own 2 but dont. If its okay to copy it and own 2, then why trade for 2x 3x 4x of a card? Hell, why even own 1 original? If I were to follow suit, all 6 of my decks would have a forcefield in it.
All of my decks have their own unique cards and their own sideboards. For convenience, all 6 current decks are sleeved identical. This eliminates the problem you describe.
I hate proxies. But if I know that you own a moat and it's in deck A, I don't expect you to risk damaging it by having to swap all the time because you also run it in deck B.
You would have Moat in a case, never to be played.
You'd have 1 proxy representing it, that you dont care if it gets damaged.
Nah, I'd straight play that moat like a boss. That's me though.
And just for the record I don't play with proxy people, because it turns into Pringles; once you start you can't stop and I end up having to dissipate a time twister only to have my dissipate mana drained.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The EDH stax primer When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
And just for the record I don't play with proxy people, because it turns into Pringles; once you start you can't stop and I end up having to dissipate a time twister only to have my dissipate mana drained.
Yes, or every other card played is a basic land with black magic marker on it; now its hard to believe anything more and the integrity of the match is lost =(
once you start you can't stop and I end up having to dissipate a time twister only to have my dissipate mana drained.
Its really getting on my nerves that the only cards people think are proxied are cards like
Mana Drain
Moxen
Lotus
and if I recall. aren't those banned in EDH?
They are all kind of giant giant mistakes of card design.
In any case If I want to proxy Force of Will (believe me I will, I'm not Using my play set for EDH) I will. Why should I endanger that card for non-sanctioned play????
If I went through my 3 EDH decks,
I should note less than 20 Percent of the decks (thats about 15-20 Cards) are Proxy's. For the reasons of Art/Cost.
--------------------
A thought has occurred to me while mulling over these discussions,
If a Product Exists for its use of a public, then it can have an inferred value. However even if it is or isn't available by its sole producer.
At that point, the secondary Market kicks in, it has control over what its value is, (by some supply/demand of course).
Wizards can't reasonably manage their product or replace it. They said they wont, and Because of this, these cards are "never going to be reprinted", there is in fact, a very limited amount of these cards. Wont Legacy eventually die out?
If there are no game components conventionally available, No one will play the format. I suppose this is why, some tournaments allow proxies.
------
I Of course don't know enough of the Cash-Flow statement of Wizards of the Coast, but this is just a theory.
The only economic reasoning I can think of is that if a Card shop owns say, $10,000 of Legacy Valued Magic Cards, then reprinting them would cause their Market Value to drop unbelievably, (whether or not they would be MSRP'd at Retail Stores, or at the shop them selves,) they still loose the value of 10k to maybe 4k as an example. If you have stock that loses its value by half overnight, I hear thats devastating.
One shop isn't a big deal, but Wizards supply's these all of these shops, the distributors like CoolStuff or StarCity, they receive and sell new product, and hold events and generally keep a small amount of "life-blood" Engaged/supplied.
Whats bad for a Card shop on a low-medium level wont hurt Wizards.
Whats bad for Every Card shop on a low level, could hurt Wizards financially, if Product doesn't sell, business's lose out of money and can't sell or afford to sell as much product in the future. They have a giant stock that may have Cost them More than its current worth.
The problem is to revamp life into legacy (break the revised list)
someone needs to take a hit, either Wizards or Card Shops, and logically I know which it would have to be.
I would be interested to see where the distributions of Magic Product go and what Purchase Trends are Popular. From Small card shops, to major Gaming Stores, to stores like ToyStores/Target/Walmart.
Also, Curious to what the "Lifeblood" is determined/defined as. How often, how much.
And that 10k in stock is only worth 10k if it sells. If it's sitting there collecting dust it's worth nothing.
Obviously, but thats not the right idea,
If they purchased it (as nothing is %100 stale, there are cards bought and sold) If they generally spend a portion acquiring, then the stock, and general trade will drop instantly,
-------
I keep hearing people say "They made Modern to be the new Legacy"
I can't feel that it isn't really an answer, or a solution to the problem.
Its like If I bought a car from a special maker, and suddenly they stop making repairs on my model, and just say, "We made a new car to buy" for a reason why they wont make fixes on my original car.
Its like If I bought a car from a special maker, and suddenly they stop making repairs on my model, and just say, "We made a new car to buy" for a reason why they wont make fixes on my original car.
But thats reality, innit
If your car is ~17 years old, your going to have issues finding parts for it.
The difference is your actually taking it out of one deck, and putting it in another. Not copying as if you own 2 but dont. If its okay to copy it and own 2, then why trade for 2x 3x 4x of a card? Hell, why even own 1 original? If I were to follow suit, all 6 of my decks would have a forcefield in it.
All of my decks have their own unique cards and their own sideboards. For convenience, all 6 current decks are sleeved identical. This eliminates the problem you describe.
You would have Moat in a case, never to be played.
You'd have 1 proxy representing it, that you dont care if it gets damaged.
If its a gain, why haven't they done it? I would assume most business make the best decisions when it comes to things like this
Reserve list,
They can't reprint a number of those older cards, ABU duals, nope. Moxen, nope. Most of the good legacy cards (staples) and certainly most vintage staples are reserved list locked away in the vault of wizards' promise not to reprint them.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
But since it is now relevant to the discussion of what "Hentai Cutie" is defined as,
Here are examples of said "Hentai Cutie" that would be proxy'd
I was making a joke, I am sorry if you took it seriously and it became an issue with you. There are a LOT of amazing custom art cards done here, my point was only to say that the "art" that is owned is also borders, symbols, background, etc...
Reserve list,
They can't reprint a number of those older cards, ABU duals, nope. Moxen, nope. Most of the good legacy cards (staples) and certainly most vintage staples are reserved list locked away in the vault of wizards' promise not to reprint them.
...
Thats not the reason,
Why did they make a reserve list and why dont they revive it are the same question.
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Context is everything. Discussing how to physically make these will get you suspended. Trading or selling these will get you banned.
This is outside our concern.
Discussing how to physically make these will get you suspended. Trading or selling these will get you banned. Posting an image of a card is fine.
Consider that Wizards of the Coast is in the business of selling Magic cards to you. You're telling them that you use knockoffs because you do not want them* to get all your money for the real thing. If they should take notice of you, do not expect them to be impressed by this line of reasoning.
*Or the secondary traders who in turn buy from them.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
-Still nothing about Having alternate artwork.
They only distribution that affects the cards that would be Proxy'd would be cards coming from boosters not in run anymore. Cards that are only being sold by a Secondary Market.
Secondary Mark =/= Wizards of the cost.
The actual Values of these cards aren't set by Wizards. They have almost NO control over the secondary Market. Its not (Completely) their fault Alpha Lands ETC are $100+ etc.
So in a sense this isn't a hurt for Wizards $$, but the secondary market, which would be Card Shops, and Scrooge McDuck Collectors.
I can not go to wizards and purchase an Alpha Land from them.
1. They don't have any to sell.
2. They would look like idiots trying to sell MSRP Cardboard for $100
3. They cannot receive money for A Card Shop, or Collector, Selling an Alpha Land.
Please don't try to convince me (Or Others For the love of all that is good) that my creation of a proxy Tiaga, that I Didn't Purchase from a Card Shop or such, is bleeding wizards dry of money.
...........
The problem is that you are still using copyrighted material if you have the same background art, mana and tap symbols, and borders. That is copyrighted art so it does not matter at all that you have changed the art to your favorite hentai cutie.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Lets try and be civil and not suggestive.
But since it is now relevant to the discussion of what "Hentai Cutie" is defined as,
Here are examples of said "Hentai Cutie" that would be proxy'd
EDIT* Links not working
I am also an advocate of reporting illegal eBay auctions selling proxies.
Do people use them? I'm sure. Do I encourage them by telling them how? I do not.
rip if it does :'|
If I should have, asked, I am sorry.
Just Defending the "Cute Hentai Babe" Comment.
There are deep artistic aesthetics to be noted here. Not perverse applications.
I personally believe that any card played should actually be owned. While understandable you wouldn't want to shuffle a P9 with the rest of your deck, you shouldn't have 3 decks with a proxy of the ONE lotus you own.
This very much causes angst for players like myself, who work hard to trade or purchase 2x 3x 4x of a card as needed for our decks. This is the harm that I can see - it certainly doesn't uphold the integrity of the game
My Buying Thread
How's that different then pulling one card out of a deck and into another. Usually decks use different sleeves. Doing all that in-out, in-out will cause damage (believe me *wink*)
I hate proxies. But if I know that you own a moat and it's in deck A, I don't expect you to risk damaging it by having to swap all the time because you also run it in deck B.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
The difference is your actually taking it out of one deck, and putting it in another. Not copying as if you own 2 but dont. If its okay to copy it and own 2, then why trade for 2x 3x 4x of a card? Hell, why even own 1 original? If I were to follow suit, all 6 of my decks would have a forcefield in it.
All of my decks have their own unique cards and their own sideboards. For convenience, all 6 current decks are sleeved identical. This eliminates the problem you describe.
You would have Moat in a case, never to be played.
You'd have 1 proxy representing it, that you dont care if it gets damaged.
My Buying Thread
And just for the record I don't play with proxy people, because it turns into Pringles; once you start you can't stop and I end up having to dissipate a time twister only to have my dissipate mana drained.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
Yes, or every other card played is a basic land with black magic marker on it; now its hard to believe anything more and the integrity of the match is lost =(
My Buying Thread
Its really getting on my nerves that the only cards people think are proxied are cards like
Mana Drain
Moxen
Lotus
and if I recall. aren't those banned in EDH?
They are all kind of giant giant mistakes of card design.
In any case If I want to proxy Force of Will (believe me I will, I'm not Using my play set for EDH) I will. Why should I endanger that card for non-sanctioned play????
If I went through my 3 EDH decks,
I should note less than 20 Percent of the decks (thats about 15-20 Cards) are Proxy's. For the reasons of Art/Cost.
--------------------
A thought has occurred to me while mulling over these discussions,
If a Product Exists for its use of a public, then it can have an inferred value. However even if it is or isn't available by its sole producer.
At that point, the secondary Market kicks in, it has control over what its value is, (by some supply/demand of course).
Wizards can't reasonably manage their product or replace it. They said they wont, and Because of this, these cards are "never going to be reprinted", there is in fact, a very limited amount of these cards. Wont Legacy eventually die out?
If there are no game components conventionally available, No one will play the format. I suppose this is why, some tournaments allow proxies.
------
I Of course don't know enough of the Cash-Flow statement of Wizards of the Coast, but this is just a theory.
The only economic reasoning I can think of is that if a Card shop owns say, $10,000 of Legacy Valued Magic Cards, then reprinting them would cause their Market Value to drop unbelievably, (whether or not they would be MSRP'd at Retail Stores, or at the shop them selves,) they still loose the value of 10k to maybe 4k as an example. If you have stock that loses its value by half overnight, I hear thats devastating.
One shop isn't a big deal, but Wizards supply's these all of these shops, the distributors like CoolStuff or StarCity, they receive and sell new product, and hold events and generally keep a small amount of "life-blood" Engaged/supplied.
Whats bad for a Card shop on a low-medium level wont hurt Wizards.
Whats bad for Every Card shop on a low level, could hurt Wizards financially, if Product doesn't sell, business's lose out of money and can't sell or afford to sell as much product in the future. They have a giant stock that may have Cost them More than its current worth.
The problem is to revamp life into legacy (break the revised list)
someone needs to take a hit, either Wizards or Card Shops, and logically I know which it would have to be.
I would be interested to see where the distributions of Magic Product go and what Purchase Trends are Popular. From Small card shops, to major Gaming Stores, to stores like ToyStores/Target/Walmart.
Also, Curious to what the "Lifeblood" is determined/defined as. How often, how much.
And that 10k in stock is only worth 10k if it sells. If it's sitting there collecting dust it's worth nothing.
Obviously, but thats not the right idea,
If they purchased it (as nothing is %100 stale, there are cards bought and sold) If they generally spend a portion acquiring, then the stock, and general trade will drop instantly,
-------
I keep hearing people say "They made Modern to be the new Legacy"
I can't feel that it isn't really an answer, or a solution to the problem.
Its like If I bought a car from a special maker, and suddenly they stop making repairs on my model, and just say, "We made a new car to buy" for a reason why they wont make fixes on my original car.
But thats reality, innit
If your car is ~17 years old, your going to have issues finding parts for it.
My Buying Thread
Okay, reality whatever, but ask yourself, "Why isn't Wizards doing anything, when they obviously can?"
This isn't an issue of Parts, there is no difficulty here, except its a loss for wizards to revive Legacy.
Because they said they wouldn't do anything. It's a gain for WOTC to revive Legacy. They make zero dollars on it now.
Would shops be affected? And order less product because of a slight from WOTC? Let's see:
Bird of Paradise. M11 is ~$4. It's been printed in 15 playable sets. A Beta Bird is ~$250. ~150 for a pos.
Reprinting duals won't affect the older printings prices, in the long term, as much as people think they will.
If its a gain, why haven't they done it? I would assume most business make the best decisions when it comes to things like this
If I have 5 different decks running a Sol Ring, I'm not going to buy 5 Sol Rings. I can only ever use one at any given time.
Reserve list,
They can't reprint a number of those older cards, ABU duals, nope. Moxen, nope. Most of the good legacy cards (staples) and certainly most vintage staples are reserved list locked away in the vault of wizards' promise not to reprint them.
I was making a joke, I am sorry if you took it seriously and it became an issue with you. There are a LOT of amazing custom art cards done here, my point was only to say that the "art" that is owned is also borders, symbols, background, etc...
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
...
Thats not the reason,
Why did they make a reserve list and why dont they revive it are the same question.