Um, hi. Feels kind of weird to be speaking to a forum at large.
I've been wondering about the rules involving nudity, mainly that it can't be linked but can be included in PMs if requested (I did a quick search for this topic, but saw nothing; I apologize if I missed it somewhere). Some of the altered cards posted have been moderator'd away because they contained nudity, and now they are gone forever unless I take the time to actually PM the artists (and I am lazy and don't care enough to do so).
Now, I am not advocating nudity for nudity's sake, because let's face it, this is the internet and everything is a Ctrl-T away. I do like seeing people's work, however, and many of the contributors do not seem to have a dedicated website to house their alterations.
Spoiler tags are obviously not enough since they still cache the image (at least on most forums). However, other forums that I have been on allowed nudity to be linked, as long as any links containing "not safe for work" material were clearly labeled as such. This way, the browser will not load the image until the user clicks the link, which they will not do unless they wish to see something containing nudity. The way I see it, a user clicking a link is the same as them requesting a PM, except with an automatic response.
So basically I am wondering why people can't link their work that contains nudity.
Any thoughts? Counterpoints? Righteous denunciations from Heaven on high?
This is a work-safe site, it's right in our Forums Rules.Clearly nudity, even creepy cartoon nudity, is not work-safe. Additionally, the rules clearly state that linking to material deemed inappropriate for our forums is just as inappropriate.
I mean, I have some custom cards with some beautiful works of art, but even so, the topless women get replaced with not-so-good filler arts when I show them on MTGS.
This is a work-safe site, it's right in our Forums Rules.Clearly nudity, even creepy cartoon nudity, is not work-safe. Additionally, the rules clearly state that linking to material deemed inappropriate for our forums is just as inappropriate.
I realize this, because I did in fact read the rules. I was just wondering why it was acceptable to PM nudity around but not link it, when in theory a link should not be a "risk" to those who don't want to see anything. An image behind a link does absolutely nothing without a user clicking it, and assuming a link is appropriately labeled, the only ones clicking it should be those who would request a PM.
Again, I understand what the rules are, and I am not just out and out demanding change. If there is no reason beyond that's the way it is and is going to be, I'm all right with that. Just wanted to put the topic out there.
I realize this, because I did in fact read the rules. I was just wondering why it was acceptable to PM nudity around but not link it, when in theory a link should not be a "risk" to those who don't want to see anything.
Ironically, I don't entirely disagree. But the administrative quandary is where do we draw the line? Is anything acceptable to link to provided you label it?
I realize this, because I did in fact read the rules. I was just wondering why it was acceptable to PM nudity around but not link it, when in theory a link should not be a "risk" to those who don't want to see anything. An image behind a link does absolutely nothing without a user clicking it, and assuming a link is appropriately labeled, the only ones clicking it should be those who would request a PM.
Again, I understand what the rules are, and I am not just out and out demanding change. If there is no reason beyond that's the way it is and is going to be, I'm all right with that. Just wanted to put the topic out there.
PMing nudity isn't acceptable here either. We simply don't have an effective way of moderating private messages because we don't believe in breaking into our members' inboxes to check for nudity. PMing nude pictures can result in anything from a suspension up to automatic permanent banning.
Dude, there are a lot of kids that frequent this site and there is no real reason for obscenities. I'm 32 and have seen as much as anyone else out there, and I actually like that porn, profanity, and the derogatory use of synonyms of gay are moderated out. People here, as a result, are civil and overall respectful and that is a good thing.
And the Art Forum is a wonderful and creative place with or without crudely painted camel toe. And if nipples getting blurred ruin a piece for you, then there are plenty of other nipple filled websites out there ripe for the pickin'.
If we have nudity in the art forum, that means we'd have to have nudity in every forum. That would make MTGS very sexy.
In all seriousness, MTGSalvation tries to be as "family-friendly" as possible, as in, you expect a forum about Magic cards, not a forum about sex. While discussions about sex are certainly allowed in the Real Life Advice forum, you're not expecting graphic pictures of sex to suddenly pop up. It's a comfort level thing, basically. They want to provide a comfortable, fun experience for all the users without awkward surprises they have to explain to onlookers. (Not that Magic doesn't get that response anyway...)
I have doubts that the censorship of tasteful nudity is worthwhile. I'm not sure what it accomplishes beyond reinforcing the idea that the human form is something to be hidden and ashamed of rather than viewed as artistically valid.
PMing nudity isn't acceptable here either. We simply don't have an effective way of moderating private messages because we don't believe in breaking into our members' inboxes to check for nudity. PMing nude pictures can result in anything from a suspension up to automatic permanent banning.
I find this a little bit odd on account of the second post here.
And Galspanic, I agree on the strict moderation aspect of things. One of the things I like about MTGS is that the roaring seas of the internet are kept mostly at bay by the moderators here. And, as I said in my initial post, I am not "looking" for nudity, because most of the internet is obscenity. I like seeing people's work, and the fact that some of it contains nudity does not bother me. I do dislike the fact, though, that apparently people immediately jump from nudity to pornography, but I understand that it would be a fine line to walk from a moderation standpoint.
However, I also understand that MTGS tries to be "family friendly", and that is a respectable stance. It just seemed to me that links would be more convenient for all involved than PMs. But as brought up, the only reason PMs aren't policed are ones to do with privacy, so it's not a case of why links aren't allowed when PMs are so much as why PMs are allowed when links aren't.
In any case, consider my curiosity appeased. I don't know if the mods would rather have this thread locked now or leave it open for anyone else who might want to comment, but I feel I've gotten my answer.
I have doubts that the censorship of tasteful nudity is worthwhile. I'm not sure what it accomplishes beyond reinforcing the idea that the human form is something to be hidden and ashamed of rather than viewed as artistically valid.
I agree with this, as I am an avid collector of artistic nude arts, BUT you must understand that, like others have said, it's a family friendly site that kids visit. Some might not know what NSFW means (and thus click it out of curiosity), some might think it safe only to have it blow up, and besides all of that, some still find nudity highly offensive. I never fought for any kind of nude arts (topless women basically, since that's all I'd ever post here) because I knew the reasons why it wasn't allowed and that it would be pointless to fight for it.
It's a losing battle unfortunately, and I accepted that long ago. Just let it go, as fighting for it is not going to change anything.
I have doubts that the censorship of tasteful nudity is worthwhile. I'm not sure what it accomplishes beyond reinforcing the idea that the human form is something to be hidden and ashamed of rather than viewed as artistically valid.
That's not really the point here. The point is, kids view the site. Kids with parents who don't want to expose their kids to nudity, tasteful or not. At ten years old, I didn't go. 'those are fine works of art'.... I went 'omg! BOOBIES!
This is bad.
When kids grow up they can decide for themselves if something is tastefully nude rather than pornography nude. As kids, they're more likely to see it and.....
I have doubts that the censorship of tasteful nudity is worthwhile. I'm not sure what it accomplishes beyond reinforcing the idea that the human form is something to be hidden and ashamed of rather than viewed as artistically valid.
I love this argument, because "tasteful" is subjective, and the person using this argument rarely, if ever, would be willing to take naked pictures of themselves and post them to reinforce their argument. (I am not suggesting you do that, Mr. Names. I'm sure you're very studly, but this is not the time.) Do I agree with you? Absolutely. But you're using a contradictory chain of logic. If the human body was viewed as artistically valid, then we would not only have more respect for it in terms of artistic worth (as opposed to the poor filmography of modern pornography), but we would also realize that this is a Magic forum, not an art forum. Magic artwork is not "fine art" in the traditional sense, therefore its "artistic validity" is different from the artistic validity of traditional art, where nudity is tolerated and expected. You don't expect nudity on a site about a card game that has absolutely nothing to do with nudity. (Note that Magic illustrators are some of the best artists in the world, but you don't see their artwork in the Guggenheim. Not that we shouldn't, but that's another discussion.)
Magic is a game for people ages 13 and older. Therefore, any community built around the game should, ideally, be appropriate for people ages 13 and older. That does not mean censorship of ideas, debates, or controversial topics, but there are definitely some things that really have no place on the site. Just like, say, rocketship in Magic. Could there be rocketships in Magic? Sure, why not? But should there be? Absolutely not. It would ruin the entire storyline. They're not censoring you, they're focusing the site's content and discussion around what it's supposed to be focused on. Not boobs or butts, but cards and card players.
Also, there is something really creepy about drawing naked people on Magic cards. Really, really creepy.
I have doubts that the censorship of tasteful nudity is worthwhile. I'm not sure what it accomplishes beyond reinforcing the idea that the human form is something to be hidden and ashamed of rather than viewed as artistically valid.
By removing the criterion of whether or not the nudity is "tasteful" (which is purely subjective) from the decision-making process, two distinct benefits emerge:
1)It makes the moderator's job easier as the Artwork mods don't have to have a huge discussion over every instance to decide whether something is "taseteful," and
2)Users benefit from more predictable moderation; they will have a much better idea before they post any artwork as to whether it will be moderated, and can therefore avoid breaking the rules by posting something the user thought was tasteful, but the mods didn't.
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I would lose my job and face a severe internal audit if some of the sad anime art people here favor was even allowed to be in spoiler tags. Internet usage is actively monitored where I work. What I see, they see.
Like the people before me said, MTGS is a forum that is work-friendly. A lot of us here are adults with the benefit of being able to check MTGS from our place of employment. Just because some "adults" here like showing childrens-show characters engaged in x-rated acts or naked anime girls on basic lands doesn't mean it should ruin the forums for the rest of us.
We can only hope that when those people see their first real naked woman they abandon their phases and fetishes, for the woman's sake more than anything.
I would lose my job and face a severe internal audit if some of the sad anime art people here favor was even allowed to be in spoiler tags. Internet usage is actively monitored where I work. What I see, they see.
Like the people before me said, MTGS is a forum that is work-friendly. A lot of us here are adults with the benefit of being able to check MTGS from our place of employment. Just because some "adults" here like showing childrens-show characters engaged in x-rated acts or naked anime girls on basic lands doesn't mean it should ruin the forums for the rest of us.
We can only hope that when those people see their first real naked woman they abandon their phases and fetishes, for the woman's sake more than anything.
Same here. Up until recently I worked for a government lab and everything was heavily screened. Like most workplaces, they had a zero tolerance policy towards viewing inappropriate material online from work. First Amendment notwithstanding, you wouldn't bring paper issues of Playboy and Hustler and leave them lying around your cubicle. Most of us wouldn't even bring regular Magic cards to work, and leave them out where others could see them!
It's most certainly not just a matter of taste. It runs counter to many company policies and local laws, Codes of Conduct for many ISPs, etc. So until you are working for yourself, and have your very own dedicated server for this sort of thing, and have a way of magically keeping people under 18 off the site, then learn to live with it.
This is by far my favorite site, and I can check it at work. I cant check almost any website, but this still hasnt been banned. Nudity would defiantly do so.
Its no big deal to not show it, and I find it horrible to see the crap on Magic cards.
While I do agree on the point that this is a forum based on magic, and not a art forum, that there should be restrictions on what is allowed to be put up.
But in reference to those about the 'kids' factor and they shouldnt be exposed. I hate to say it, but with todays internet and society, those that are of age to play magic(13+) have most likely already be exposed to it. Some of the PG13 movies even have small bits of nudity in them nowadays.
Again, I just want to reiterate that I am not for nudity in the art section. If I want to view art, I go to art forums/websites. I do enjoy viewing some of the altered artwork people do to their magic cards, but there is no reason for there to be nudity. But please dont try to use "But the children!", kids are exposed to a lot more nowadays then people would like to admit.
Yeah, I agree with doing it for the people at work. Sometimes you dont notice a NSFW tag and in todays economy, id hate to lose a job over something so trivial.
It's a good thing we're doing it more for the adults at work than the kids at home then.
Well that addresses another issue entirely, it being that nudity being viewed as bad and offensive is a serious problem with society. But that's another conversation for another place/time.
On topic with the rest of the thread, I have to agree that nudity should not be on this site simply because of all the people who are able to view this site in places like work or school that they wouldn't if nudity were allowed. Until that problem I mentioned above gets fixed...
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I've been wondering about the rules involving nudity, mainly that it can't be linked but can be included in PMs if requested (I did a quick search for this topic, but saw nothing; I apologize if I missed it somewhere). Some of the altered cards posted have been moderator'd away because they contained nudity, and now they are gone forever unless I take the time to actually PM the artists (and I am lazy and don't care enough to do so).
Now, I am not advocating nudity for nudity's sake, because let's face it, this is the internet and everything is a Ctrl-T away. I do like seeing people's work, however, and many of the contributors do not seem to have a dedicated website to house their alterations.
Spoiler tags are obviously not enough since they still cache the image (at least on most forums). However, other forums that I have been on allowed nudity to be linked, as long as any links containing "not safe for work" material were clearly labeled as such. This way, the browser will not load the image until the user clicks the link, which they will not do unless they wish to see something containing nudity. The way I see it, a user clicking a link is the same as them requesting a PM, except with an automatic response.
So basically I am wondering why people can't link their work that contains nudity.
Any thoughts? Counterpoints? Righteous denunciations from Heaven on high?
Altered Cards! Crafts and Stuff!
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Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
I mean, I have some custom cards with some beautiful works of art, but even so, the topless women get replaced with not-so-good filler arts when I show them on MTGS.
Just something that has to be done.
I realize this, because I did in fact read the rules. I was just wondering why it was acceptable to PM nudity around but not link it, when in theory a link should not be a "risk" to those who don't want to see anything. An image behind a link does absolutely nothing without a user clicking it, and assuming a link is appropriately labeled, the only ones clicking it should be those who would request a PM.
Again, I understand what the rules are, and I am not just out and out demanding change. If there is no reason beyond that's the way it is and is going to be, I'm all right with that. Just wanted to put the topic out there.
Altered Cards! Crafts and Stuff!
Do you posit that the rules fail to be any or all of these things?
Ironically, I don't entirely disagree. But the administrative quandary is where do we draw the line? Is anything acceptable to link to provided you label it?
Indeed.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
PMing nudity isn't acceptable here either. We simply don't have an effective way of moderating private messages because we don't believe in breaking into our members' inboxes to check for nudity. PMing nude pictures can result in anything from a suspension up to automatic permanent banning.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
And the Art Forum is a wonderful and creative place with or without crudely painted camel toe. And if nipples getting blurred ruin a piece for you, then there are plenty of other nipple filled websites out there ripe for the pickin'.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
In all seriousness, MTGSalvation tries to be as "family-friendly" as possible, as in, you expect a forum about Magic cards, not a forum about sex. While discussions about sex are certainly allowed in the Real Life Advice forum, you're not expecting graphic pictures of sex to suddenly pop up. It's a comfort level thing, basically. They want to provide a comfortable, fun experience for all the users without awkward surprises they have to explain to onlookers. (Not that Magic doesn't get that response anyway...)
I have doubts that the censorship of tasteful nudity is worthwhile. I'm not sure what it accomplishes beyond reinforcing the idea that the human form is something to be hidden and ashamed of rather than viewed as artistically valid.
FRAGMENTS: A Shards of Alara Anthology
I find this a little bit odd on account of the second post here.
And Galspanic, I agree on the strict moderation aspect of things. One of the things I like about MTGS is that the roaring seas of the internet are kept mostly at bay by the moderators here. And, as I said in my initial post, I am not "looking" for nudity, because most of the internet is obscenity. I like seeing people's work, and the fact that some of it contains nudity does not bother me. I do dislike the fact, though, that apparently people immediately jump from nudity to pornography, but I understand that it would be a fine line to walk from a moderation standpoint.
However, I also understand that MTGS tries to be "family friendly", and that is a respectable stance. It just seemed to me that links would be more convenient for all involved than PMs. But as brought up, the only reason PMs aren't policed are ones to do with privacy, so it's not a case of why links aren't allowed when PMs are so much as why PMs are allowed when links aren't.
In any case, consider my curiosity appeased. I don't know if the mods would rather have this thread locked now or leave it open for anyone else who might want to comment, but I feel I've gotten my answer.
P.S. gnosisedge knows what is up.
Altered Cards! Crafts and Stuff!
I agree with this, as I am an avid collector of artistic nude arts, BUT you must understand that, like others have said, it's a family friendly site that kids visit. Some might not know what NSFW means (and thus click it out of curiosity), some might think it safe only to have it blow up, and besides all of that, some still find nudity highly offensive. I never fought for any kind of nude arts (topless women basically, since that's all I'd ever post here) because I knew the reasons why it wasn't allowed and that it would be pointless to fight for it.
It's a losing battle unfortunately, and I accepted that long ago. Just let it go, as fighting for it is not going to change anything.
That's not really the point here. The point is, kids view the site. Kids with parents who don't want to expose their kids to nudity, tasteful or not. At ten years old, I didn't go. 'those are fine works of art'.... I went 'omg! BOOBIES!
This is bad.
When kids grow up they can decide for themselves if something is tastefully nude rather than pornography nude. As kids, they're more likely to see it and.....
I love this argument, because "tasteful" is subjective, and the person using this argument rarely, if ever, would be willing to take naked pictures of themselves and post them to reinforce their argument. (I am not suggesting you do that, Mr. Names. I'm sure you're very studly, but this is not the time.) Do I agree with you? Absolutely. But you're using a contradictory chain of logic. If the human body was viewed as artistically valid, then we would not only have more respect for it in terms of artistic worth (as opposed to the poor filmography of modern pornography), but we would also realize that this is a Magic forum, not an art forum. Magic artwork is not "fine art" in the traditional sense, therefore its "artistic validity" is different from the artistic validity of traditional art, where nudity is tolerated and expected. You don't expect nudity on a site about a card game that has absolutely nothing to do with nudity. (Note that Magic illustrators are some of the best artists in the world, but you don't see their artwork in the Guggenheim. Not that we shouldn't, but that's another discussion.)
Magic is a game for people ages 13 and older. Therefore, any community built around the game should, ideally, be appropriate for people ages 13 and older. That does not mean censorship of ideas, debates, or controversial topics, but there are definitely some things that really have no place on the site. Just like, say, rocketship in Magic. Could there be rocketships in Magic? Sure, why not? But should there be? Absolutely not. It would ruin the entire storyline. They're not censoring you, they're focusing the site's content and discussion around what it's supposed to be focused on. Not boobs or butts, but cards and card players.
Also, there is something really creepy about drawing naked people on Magic cards. Really, really creepy.
By removing the criterion of whether or not the nudity is "tasteful" (which is purely subjective) from the decision-making process, two distinct benefits emerge:
1)It makes the moderator's job easier as the Artwork mods don't have to have a huge discussion over every instance to decide whether something is "taseteful," and
2)Users benefit from more predictable moderation; they will have a much better idea before they post any artwork as to whether it will be moderated, and can therefore avoid breaking the rules by posting something the user thought was tasteful, but the mods didn't.
I didn't even know that was there. Consider it changed.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Altered Cards! Crafts and Stuff!
Like the people before me said, MTGS is a forum that is work-friendly. A lot of us here are adults with the benefit of being able to check MTGS from our place of employment. Just because some "adults" here like showing childrens-show characters engaged in x-rated acts or naked anime girls on basic lands doesn't mean it should ruin the forums for the rest of us.
We can only hope that when those people see their first real naked woman they abandon their phases and fetishes, for the woman's sake more than anything.
Same here. Up until recently I worked for a government lab and everything was heavily screened. Like most workplaces, they had a zero tolerance policy towards viewing inappropriate material online from work. First Amendment notwithstanding, you wouldn't bring paper issues of Playboy and Hustler and leave them lying around your cubicle. Most of us wouldn't even bring regular Magic cards to work, and leave them out where others could see them!
It's most certainly not just a matter of taste. It runs counter to many company policies and local laws, Codes of Conduct for many ISPs, etc. So until you are working for yourself, and have your very own dedicated server for this sort of thing, and have a way of magically keeping people under 18 off the site, then learn to live with it.
Its no big deal to not show it, and I find it horrible to see the crap on Magic cards.
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But in reference to those about the 'kids' factor and they shouldnt be exposed. I hate to say it, but with todays internet and society, those that are of age to play magic(13+) have most likely already be exposed to it. Some of the PG13 movies even have small bits of nudity in them nowadays.
Again, I just want to reiterate that I am not for nudity in the art section. If I want to view art, I go to art forums/websites. I do enjoy viewing some of the altered artwork people do to their magic cards, but there is no reason for there to be nudity. But please dont try to use "But the children!", kids are exposed to a lot more nowadays then people would like to admit.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Well that addresses another issue entirely, it being that nudity being viewed as bad and offensive is a serious problem with society. But that's another conversation for another place/time.
On topic with the rest of the thread, I have to agree that nudity should not be on this site simply because of all the people who are able to view this site in places like work or school that they wouldn't if nudity were allowed. Until that problem I mentioned above gets fixed...