Never said they are all bad, just the few I have had to deal with. I might have been a little to hard on krashbot though.....
That's possible, just as it's possible he was a little hard on you. Let's all realize we're all people and can screw up, and move past this? It makes life so much easier
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
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Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
That's possible, just as it's possible he was a little hard on you. Let's all realize we're all people and can screw up, and move past this? It makes life so much easier
Seconded.
Sometimes nerves can get a little worn down, and things can seem like a bigger deal then they are. It helps to just take a step back and relax a bit and all that.
We all step on each other's toes some times, you just have to take it in stride, and move on. (which can be hard, I know)
That's possible, just as it's possible he was a little hard on you. Let's all realize we're all people and can screw up, and move past this? It makes life so much easier
Well , that is easier for some. I could move on easier if I didn't get screwed over in the deal. I guess it is a little bit of a bigger deal to me.
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@swamp_bats: I'm just going to come out and say this here.
I did screw up when I was dealing with you. The first warning was, in retrospect, rather silly and it probably should have been a verbal warning if anything. However, your response to that wasn't exactly conducive to me reevaluating my actions at the time.
Also, I said something in the conversation that followed that I really shouldn't have. I suspect, that it gave you the idea that an inappropriate action was, in fact, acceptable (and I believe you then got infracted for said action). While I did not mean my comment in the way you likely interpreted it, I can certainly see how it could have been taken wrong and I take full responsibility for that.
I would like to apologize for mishandling the situation and hopefully we can just move on.
@swamp_bats: I'm just going to come out and say this here.
I did screw up when I was dealing with you. The first warning was, in retrospect, rather silly and it probably should have been a verbal warning if anything. However, your response to that wasn't exactly conducive to me reevaluating my actions at the time.
Also, I said something in the conversation that followed that I really shouldn't have. I suspect, that it gave you the idea that an inappropriate action was, in fact, acceptable (and I believe you then got infracted for said action). While I did not mean my comment in the way you likely interpreted it, I can certainly see how it could have been taken wrong and I take full responsibility for that.
I would like to apologize for mishandling the situation and hopefully we can just move on.
Well thanks for saying that. The reason I react the way I did is because It erks me that everytime I do something little on this board mods always jumped all over it. It seems like alot of this stuff could be handled better with a little pm. I would take it a lot better that way. As far as your concerned I am plenty moved on, the situation not so much.
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Yes, the moderation is strict, even draconian. I have recieved multiple warnings and one infraction, none of which I feel were deserved.
Mods here tend to infract/ban people when they become disagreeable with the established norm of the site, and when their authority becomes questioned.
The other day, I recieved a warning for discussing illegal activity for thanking Alacar and saying I would put a website in my favorites that supposedly has pirated music available on it. Is thanking people illegal activivty? Is putting websites in my Favorites Illegal activity? Then how is it that I get warned?
On the whole, I think that sticking to the original intent of the rules and warning first then asking questions later is actually the wisest thing to do. If I don't agree with the establishment, and I get infracted/warned repeatedly, that means I am sticking to my principles.
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded."
I've had the Best Damn Musical Artist 1950-2000 Megapoll on hold for about 12 months because I can't figure out a way to do it properly without discussing filesharing. It's the rules, whether I like it or not.
There are circumstances where the discussion of otherwise illegal activity is allowed. Debates, for example, or discussion in the abstract. If one wanted to discuss the effects of pircacy on the music industry, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed. It's a bit of a grey area, but there is something of a clear difference between referring to piracy and how it relates to an industry as a whole and saying "thanks for the site hosting pirated mp3s, I'll download some later!"
There are circumstances where the discussion of otherwise illegal activity is allowed. Debates, for example, or discussion in the abstract. If one wanted to discuss the effects of pircacy on the music industry, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed. It's a bit of a grey area, but there is something of a clear difference between referring to piracy and how it relates to an industry as a whole and saying "thanks for the site hosting pirated mp3s, I'll download some later!"
How-tos and the philosophies of something are completely different.
Discussion of the Meth culture and discussion of how to construct a meth lab are two separate things.
Discussion of drinking and partying and discussion of how to drink as much as possible (binge drinking) with the 'least ill effects' are two separate things.
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I have always thought the modding here was more inconsistent than it was overly strict. Almost all my infractions/warnings have come in strangle little bursts, and my posting doesn't vary that much, I don't think. I big clue to this is to read the Currently Banned or Suspended thread. You'll see a guy who made it to 62! counts of ripping before getting the axe. You'll notice that Hodoku, who is, in my opinion one of the bigger trolls in the history of this site, gets three month and six month suspensions continually, while InfamousBearAssassin goes from publicly flawless member and one of the best minds in the debate/philosophy section to banned behind closed doors seemingly overnight. So yeah, the modding here is quite strict I think; mtgSalvation is also by FAR the strictest forum I am a member of, but its certainly not draconian. I would describe as arbitrary though.
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Formerly known as steve-o
The internet is like drugs, it can be alot of fun, but most people on it say really stupid stuff
I have always thought the modding here was more inconsistent than it was overly strict. Almost all my infractions/warnings have come in strangle little bursts, and my posting doesn't vary that much, I don't think.
Maybe you posting has varied. You'd be surprised at the number of people who post fine then get lax until they receive a warning and then straighten up for a time only to get lax again a few months down the road. It could be that or any number of other possible reasons.
I big clue to this is to read the Currently Banned or Suspended thread. You'll see a guy who made it to 62! counts of ripping before getting the axe.
If I'm not mistaken, most of his rips were in a short span of time so no one knew he was a possible ripper until it was too late. Then after the problem was clear, the mods held off on banning him until every avenue of recouping some of our posters' losses was pursued. When there was no more to be done, he was banned. It's an unfortunate situation but I'm not sure it's an example of inconsistent modding.
You'll notice that Hodoku, who is, in my opinion one of the bigger trolls in the history of this site, gets three month and six month suspensions continually, while InfamousBearAssassin goes from publicly flawless member and one of the best minds in the debate/philosophy section to banned behind closed doors seemingly overnight.
Hodoku and TIBA are both rather prolific trolls (so I'm sorry if I don't scoff a bit at your belief that one was 'publicly flawless') and when each racks up enough infractions, they get suspended. Each successive suspension gets longer, which is true of both of them. The difference here is that one used his time on suspension to private message moderators and harass them with flames in an effort to provoke and hurt. That type of harassment is a bannable offense if one does it while suspended. Again, not inconsistent treatment.
How-tos and the philosophies of something are completely different.
Discussion of the Meth culture and discussion of how to construct a meth lab are two separate things.
Discussion of drinking and partying and discussion of how to drink as much as possible (binge drinking) with the 'least ill effects' are two separate things.
How to ameliorate the effects of alcohol is a perfectly legal discussion as opposed to the strictly illegal activity of constructing a meth lab. Drinking is legal and illegal drugs are (surprise) illegal. Are we going to start banning people if they promote or discuss non-safe sex or other perfectly legal things that most people think are wrong or immoderate?
My guess would be yes. I'm pretty sure you could get banned for "promoting naughtiness."
I have always thought the modding here was more inconsistent than it was overly strict.
Hi. Behold to the actual answer.
Also, mods: stop banning the interesting members.
I'm at the point where i really don't care about the frickin rules - I just care about the community (remembering that the rules should serve the community, and not the other way around). I would agree that TIBA was probably itching for a suspension just based on the shortening of his fuse recently. But goddammit - he made debate interesting and really contributed to the site. Yes, that should count for something and I don't really care much that he complained about his banning. That should be expected even if it doesn't happen every time. Some people are just going to rankle and why the hell can't the mods just let them rankle and ignore them?
I am also reminded about how Blinking Spirit's Trolling habits are glibly ignored just because he's a mod. I sure wish I could troll people with rude comments in their quotes that had nothing to do with the topic at hand and only served to infuriate people.
I have always thought the modding here was more inconsistent than it was overly strict. Almost all my infractions/warnings have come in strangle little bursts, and my posting doesn't vary that much, I don't think. I big clue to this is to read the Currently Banned or Suspended thread. You'll see a guy who made it to 62! counts of ripping before getting the axe.
And all of those cases happened pretty much simultaneously. It's not like the trade mods found him guilty of five cases of ripping then allowed him to perpetrate 57 more before deciding he was a problem.
You'll notice that Hodoku, who is, in my opinion one of the bigger trolls in the history of this site, gets three month and six month suspensions continually,
I do not agree that "three and six month suspensions continually" is an accurate description of one-three month suspension, one six-month suspension, and one one-year suspension (which he is currently serving).
while InfamousBearAssassin goes from publicly flawless member and one of the best minds in the debate/philosophy section to banned behind closed doors seemingly overnight.
We're talking about the same TheInfamousBearAssassin who has 6 warning and 9 infractions, right? Do you consider that "publicly flawless?" Cause I would say it's not even close.
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I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
As a very unfunny guy on the internet, I get very upset when I see someone say this. (and they have been saying it more and more as of late, just not this straightforward)
Why do people feel that "interesting" people should get a free ride? I mean, I would guess its because on almost every other site they do. I feel like the only reason that people feel the Mod'ing here is strict is because the mods follow the letter of the law. I have received several infractions on this site, and each time the reason was because I had not read the site rules closely enough, forgot them (or with my later infractions I KNEW what I was doing was against the rules, at one point I even reported myself ;))
[sarcasum] Heaven forbid some that there be one site on the internet where ANY member that breaks the rules gets whats comming to them.[/sarcasum]
As for the illegal activity thing: drinking may not be illegal, but if encouraging someone to do something very, very dangerous to their health isn't, it's certainly not something this forum wants to be associated with. "My son killed himself on a stupid bet because MTGSalvation told him it would be OK!" is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Well, that could happen anyway. I mean there are some/one part(s) of the forums where its ok to tell minors to drink.
This just boils down to common sense. Anyone with half a brain cell will realise that this isn't really the sort of place to discuss such things.
This discussion is happening because there will always exist: confusion, lack of clarity, naivety, resentment of authority, vindictive spite, malicious trolling, etc... and the logic that " idea ~~~ should be clearly apparent to everyone" is dangerous. Statements like that can be hurtful or drive one from genuine confusion to resentment (or further).
Besides, if a thread with such a subject were to come up, the mods tend to catch it anyways :/
'Tend' is the main word in this case. Nobody is perfect and it takes careful, deliberate care on both sides of a hot issue to effectively resolve it, let alone catch and prevent every controversial post.
I'm not a communications expert and I haven't been 'active' long enough for some of you to take what I say completely into consideration (I've been lurking for over a year) but I don't really see a 'resolution' in the sense that everyone will be happy with everything. There will always be views that oppose each other. Being happy enough is often all you can suffice for.
There's my two cents. I'm not going to try and convince you that one side or the other is correct: it's a judgment call that I don't have to make.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Sorry, reading your post I thought you where saying the rules were draconian.
Well, I myself basically use watchdog philosophy(as in, I explain why the way things are done is the best way to do them), coupled with a little devils advocate if I see some logic I do not like, when speaking about the rules here.
But, I have no real complaints with the way things are done here. I think they have everything where it should be to work the way they want it to.
The rules are considerably more strict on these boards than any other I have been on before.
However, I think they need to be. Were they not then so many of these threads would devolve into complete and utter flamewars... though sometimes they still do, but the frequency and severity would be much greater. To put it bluntly, there are a lot of trouble makers I've seen on these boards, some people who just seem to get off on trolling, flaming, and doing all of those other obnoxious things. I mean the suspended/banned list is evidence enough, it's long enough that if you printed it off you could choke any ten donkeys, and I've never seen anything like that elsewhere. While there are still trouble makers, if these forums were left unchecked, I probably wouldn't be back - it would be unbearable. I was infracted once for spamming (didn't mean to), but I understood why. Didn't do it again. Simple. The rules are not unfair, the laws are not Draconian, but the punishments for severely bad behavior can be stiff. Fine by me.
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Ezuri, Renegade Leader (Aggro/Combo - Favorite) Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks) Azusa, Lost but Seeking (Landfall hijinks) Kaalia of the Vast (Heavily modded)
Honestly if you don't act like a complete tool on these boards and don't make posts like an idiot spammer, you'll do just fine. I personally think the mods on this job do a great job and wouldn't have things done any other way.
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Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
No racist picture's or picture's that offend ANY religion or have Child Nudity are allowed here! You willl be Banned.. No Warnings...
Not that strict here. That said, I do feel the moderation is a little inconsistent at times.
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Hey kids! Don't like rules? Tired of having your lulz censored by terrible, terrible people called "moderators"? Big fan of metal? Check out Metaln☺☺☺☺! This is probably the worst possible forum to advertise it on!
Added bonus: we're holding a songwriting contest in march with a registry drive going on right now! Check it out, plus the opportunity to earn $50!
We also know that there is no afugvaoifgasfasdfing apostrophe in "pictures." But child porn still gets you banned, though. So I suppose we are Nazi mods after all. :B
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Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
That's a different forum. And the gutter ripped that off too.
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Added bonus: we're holding a songwriting contest in march with a registry drive going on right now! Check it out, plus the opportunity to earn $50!
Never said they are all bad, just the few I have had to deal with. I might have been a little to hard on krashbot though.....
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That's possible, just as it's possible he was a little hard on you. Let's all realize we're all people and can screw up, and move past this? It makes life so much easier
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
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Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Sometimes nerves can get a little worn down, and things can seem like a bigger deal then they are. It helps to just take a step back and relax a bit and all that.
We all step on each other's toes some times, you just have to take it in stride, and move on. (which can be hard, I know)
Well , that is easier for some. I could move on easier if I didn't get screwed over in the deal. I guess it is a little bit of a bigger deal to me.
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I did screw up when I was dealing with you. The first warning was, in retrospect, rather silly and it probably should have been a verbal warning if anything. However, your response to that wasn't exactly conducive to me reevaluating my actions at the time.
Also, I said something in the conversation that followed that I really shouldn't have. I suspect, that it gave you the idea that an inappropriate action was, in fact, acceptable (and I believe you then got infracted for said action). While I did not mean my comment in the way you likely interpreted it, I can certainly see how it could have been taken wrong and I take full responsibility for that.
I would like to apologize for mishandling the situation and hopefully we can just move on.
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I don't care if I was framed for murder if I only got a warning I would let it go.
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Mods here tend to infract/ban people when they become disagreeable with the established norm of the site, and when their authority becomes questioned.
The other day, I recieved a warning for discussing illegal activity for thanking Alacar and saying I would put a website in my favorites that supposedly has pirated music available on it. Is thanking people illegal activivty? Is putting websites in my Favorites Illegal activity? Then how is it that I get warned?
On the whole, I think that sticking to the original intent of the rules and warning first then asking questions later is actually the wisest thing to do. If I don't agree with the establishment, and I get infracted/warned repeatedly, that means I am sticking to my principles.
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Not a little Sheeple.
There are circumstances where the discussion of otherwise illegal activity is allowed. Debates, for example, or discussion in the abstract. If one wanted to discuss the effects of pircacy on the music industry, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed. It's a bit of a grey area, but there is something of a clear difference between referring to piracy and how it relates to an industry as a whole and saying "thanks for the site hosting pirated mp3s, I'll download some later!"
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Katingal: Plane of Chains
How-tos and the philosophies of something are completely different.
Discussion of the Meth culture and discussion of how to construct a meth lab are two separate things.
Discussion of drinking and partying and discussion of how to drink as much as possible (binge drinking) with the 'least ill effects' are two separate things.
Twitter
The internet is like drugs, it can be alot of fun, but most people on it say really stupid stuff
Maybe you posting has varied. You'd be surprised at the number of people who post fine then get lax until they receive a warning and then straighten up for a time only to get lax again a few months down the road. It could be that or any number of other possible reasons.
If I'm not mistaken, most of his rips were in a short span of time so no one knew he was a possible ripper until it was too late. Then after the problem was clear, the mods held off on banning him until every avenue of recouping some of our posters' losses was pursued. When there was no more to be done, he was banned. It's an unfortunate situation but I'm not sure it's an example of inconsistent modding.
Hodoku and TIBA are both rather prolific trolls (so I'm sorry if I don't scoff a bit at your belief that one was 'publicly flawless') and when each racks up enough infractions, they get suspended. Each successive suspension gets longer, which is true of both of them. The difference here is that one used his time on suspension to private message moderators and harass them with flames in an effort to provoke and hurt. That type of harassment is a bannable offense if one does it while suspended. Again, not inconsistent treatment.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
How to ameliorate the effects of alcohol is a perfectly legal discussion as opposed to the strictly illegal activity of constructing a meth lab. Drinking is legal and illegal drugs are (surprise) illegal. Are we going to start banning people if they promote or discuss non-safe sex or other perfectly legal things that most people think are wrong or immoderate?
My guess would be yes. I'm pretty sure you could get banned for "promoting naughtiness."
Hi. Behold to the actual answer.
Also, mods: stop banning the interesting members.
I'm at the point where i really don't care about the frickin rules - I just care about the community (remembering that the rules should serve the community, and not the other way around). I would agree that TIBA was probably itching for a suspension just based on the shortening of his fuse recently. But goddammit - he made debate interesting and really contributed to the site. Yes, that should count for something and I don't really care much that he complained about his banning. That should be expected even if it doesn't happen every time. Some people are just going to rankle and why the hell can't the mods just let them rankle and ignore them?
I am also reminded about how Blinking Spirit's Trolling habits are glibly ignored just because he's a mod. I sure wish I could troll people with rude comments in their quotes that had nothing to do with the topic at hand and only served to infuriate people.
And all of those cases happened pretty much simultaneously. It's not like the trade mods found him guilty of five cases of ripping then allowed him to perpetrate 57 more before deciding he was a problem.
I do not agree that "three and six month suspensions continually" is an accurate description of one-three month suspension, one six-month suspension, and one one-year suspension (which he is currently serving).
We're talking about the same TheInfamousBearAssassin who has 6 warning and 9 infractions, right? Do you consider that "publicly flawless?" Cause I would say it's not even close.
Why do people feel that "interesting" people should get a free ride? I mean, I would guess its because on almost every other site they do. I feel like the only reason that people feel the Mod'ing here is strict is because the mods follow the letter of the law. I have received several infractions on this site, and each time the reason was because I had not read the site rules closely enough, forgot them (or with my later infractions I KNEW what I was doing was against the rules, at one point I even reported myself ;))
[sarcasum] Heaven forbid some that there be one site on the internet where ANY member that breaks the rules gets whats comming to them.[/sarcasum]
This discussion is happening because there will always exist: confusion, lack of clarity, naivety, resentment of authority, vindictive spite, malicious trolling, etc... and the logic that " idea ~~~ should be clearly apparent to everyone" is dangerous. Statements like that can be hurtful or drive one from genuine confusion to resentment (or further).
'Tend' is the main word in this case. Nobody is perfect and it takes careful, deliberate care on both sides of a hot issue to effectively resolve it, let alone catch and prevent every controversial post.
I'm not a communications expert and I haven't been 'active' long enough for some of you to take what I say completely into consideration (I've been lurking for over a year) but I don't really see a 'resolution' in the sense that everyone will be happy with everything. There will always be views that oppose each other. Being happy enough is often all you can suffice for.
There's my two cents. I'm not going to try and convince you that one side or the other is correct: it's a judgment call that I don't have to make.
1) No real-life threats or serious real-life insults.
Everything else is fair game.
New Accaptable Internet Forum Rules for Kiddies and Fun Time Happy Sunshine Unicorn Paradise:
for n:
Rule n: You cannot have fun.
n++
It's getting depressing with every new MMO forum I'm forced to drag myself through if I wish to stay current. Here? Ugh.
Though I'll put it in a small font.
Please stop hijacking my reply box.
Sorry, reading your post I thought you where saying the rules were draconian.
Well, I myself basically use watchdog philosophy(as in, I explain why the way things are done is the best way to do them), coupled with a little devils advocate if I see some logic I do not like, when speaking about the rules here.
But, I have no real complaints with the way things are done here. I think they have everything where it should be to work the way they want it to.
However, I think they need to be. Were they not then so many of these threads would devolve into complete and utter flamewars... though sometimes they still do, but the frequency and severity would be much greater. To put it bluntly, there are a lot of trouble makers I've seen on these boards, some people who just seem to get off on trolling, flaming, and doing all of those other obnoxious things. I mean the suspended/banned list is evidence enough, it's long enough that if you printed it off you could choke any ten donkeys, and I've never seen anything like that elsewhere. While there are still trouble makers, if these forums were left unchecked, I probably wouldn't be back - it would be unbearable. I was infracted once for spamming (didn't mean to), but I understood why. Didn't do it again. Simple. The rules are not unfair, the laws are not Draconian, but the punishments for severely bad behavior can be stiff. Fine by me.
Commander
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Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Sac and Grave hijinks)
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Standard
Waiting for Innistrad...
Extended
Hah!
Modern
Living End Cascade (RGB)
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Burn
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None
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Not that strict here. That said, I do feel the moderation is a little inconsistent at times.
Added bonus: we're holding a songwriting contest in march with a registry drive going on right now! Check it out, plus the opportunity to earn $50!
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
Added bonus: we're holding a songwriting contest in march with a registry drive going on right now! Check it out, plus the opportunity to earn $50!
Will anyone play the religious-historical sensitivities card? :s
The moderation here is just and reasonable; 'nuff said.
Won't this thread, or its topic, ever just fade?