That has be the most illogical genralization I have ever heard. I'm not inherently opposed to the Gutter, but that's not even and argument. It's barely a coherent thought.
One thing that I find really frustrating is people who are too uptight to vent their frustrations - and other people in the gutter also find this frustrating.
Can I make this very clear: we in the gutter want, above all else, to be left alone. What about this offends you?
I'll even go one step further and tell you that it is a Gutter mandate that any gutter member using the Gutter to plot to break the rules in the forums proper or otherwise take gutter-behavior outside the Gutter will be gutterbanned and in all likelihood infracted. At all times the staff (both in and out of the Gutter) have tried to keep the Gutter in the Gutter where it belongs. We have, at times, failed. But in those cases, the individuals in question were suitably punished.
Despite multiple well-worded sugar-coated Mod and Admin assurances, it is difficult to believe any of these statements... at least to their full extent. It doesn't make sense to take the word of those who claim the Gutter is harmless when the same people are those in question who are slandering, scheming, and involving in other forms of hateful bigotry.
Though I haven't read any exceptionally vulgar Gutter posts by you, the same can not be said for Annorax and some other mods. My problem with the gutter is not only with normal members but to an even greater degree with the mod and admin members.
I don't mind a mod lounge with some profanity but the gutter is too much.
I don't mind a mod lounge with some profanity but the gutter is too much.
this doesn't make much sense to me - you don't have a problem with admin and moderators expressing dislike for specific posters - you just have a problem with it being viewed by a small group of people who aren't staff?
Can I make this very clear: we in the gutter want, above all else, to be left alone. What about this offends you?
Close the group to new members and no one will ever bother you again. As long as people can join and be booted there will always be some curiousity and suspicion surrounding the gutter. I'd be happy if there were another usergroup where other users had a chance to vent w/o fear of being disliked by the other users. Festivus for the rest of us.
Well, you could always make another subforum, about complaining about the Gutter, and the only people NOT from the Gutter could get into that subforum. That way people could complain about the Gutter, and the Gutter would not have to see it.
I am sure such a forum would be only helpful, as it would allow people that can't vent their frustration on the Gutter to vent their frustration. So, it would decrease trolling and flaming and stuff, right?
It could not cause problems because it would not be on the main forum. Right?
Close the group to new members and no one will ever bother you again. As long as people can join and be booted there will always be some curiousity and suspicion surrounding the gutter. I'd be happy if there were another usergroup where other users had a chance to vent w/o fear of being disliked by the other users. Festivus for the rest of us.
I have been arguing in the gutter that new membership should be closed for the next six months
And I know nobody believes me but there isn't any gutter conspiracy to attack and ban members we don't like - and there hasn't been this kind of conspiracy for over two years.
It is kind of amusing that the strongest opposition to the gutter comes at a point in the gutters life where it is causing the least trouble for the main forum
Well, you could always make another subforum, about complaining about the Gutter, and the only people NOT from the Gutter could get into that subforum. That way people could complain about the Gutter, and the Gutter would not have to see it.
I am sure such a forum would be only helpful, as it would allow people that can't vent their frustration on the Gutter to vent their frustration. So, it would decrees trolling and flaming and stuff, right?
It could not cause problems because it would not be on the main forum. Right?
Anything outside of the gutter and sym might as well be a hidden forum to me
Despite multiple well-worded sugar-coated Mod and Admin assurances, it is difficult to believe any of these statements... at least to their full extent.
Then don't believe them. There's not much I can do to convince you except this:
Gutter behavior is against the rules of the main boards in the first place. Flaming, trolling spamming, it's all covered. So in terms of that behavior getting punished on the main forums, I shouldn't have to convince you - it's already being done. And has been for a long time.
And as for the Gutter response to such behavior 'flowing over', take just one second to think of it from the Gutter's perspective. Every time some nimrod posts out here as they would in the Gutter, it reflects badly on the Gutter itself. Every troll, every flame every poorly-thought argument - all of it makes people like you speak out against the Gutter itself. Do you think for even one second that people who like the Gutter and want it to stick around will tolerate users giving them a bad name? No, absolutely not. We don't sit in there laughing at one of our own getting in trouble and having it blow back on us. We just don't, not when the nimrods are putting the Gutter itself in Jeopardy.
So take that as you will. It doesn't matter if I've convinced you. Trolls and spammers will still be punished on the forums and members who can't keep their **** straight outside the Gutter will be Gutterbanned. That will happen with or without your belief.
It doesn't make sense to take the word of those who claim the Gutter is harmless when the same people are those in question who are slandering, scheming, and involving in other forms of hateful bigotry.
Then take it from me since by your own word you haven't seen any exceptionally vulgar Gutter posts by me.
Though I haven't read any exceptionally vulgar Gutter posts by you, the same can not be said for Annorax and some other mods. My problem with the gutter is not only with normal members but to an even greater degree with the mod and admin members.
I would say your problem is formulating complete opinions with incomplete information, but that's just me.
I don't mind a mod lounge with some profanity but the gutter is too much.
So where do we draw the line? The staff can badmouth people, but just in the Mod Cave and not in the Gutter??
this doesn't make much sense to me - you don't have a problem with admin and moderators expressing dislike for specific posters - you just have a problem with it being viewed by a small group of people who aren't staff?
No... I said I didn't have a problem with SOME profanity. What's in the gutter is much more than SOME and much worse than just profanity. There shouldn't be a Gutter for Mods or normal members.
Can I make this very clear: we in the gutter want, above all else, to be left alone. What about this offends you?
I won't leave the gutter alone until it either (1) stops discussion of non-gutter MTGS members or (2) receives a new set of strong rules and long needed modding.
Mind I say that I'm actually being compromising. From my point of view, there probably shouldn't be any Gutter at all.
I can understand why people are curious about what the Gutter is about but why should anyone outside it, for whatever reason, give a rat's arse about what's going on inside ?
There's a perception that this has been spilling onto the regualr forums, whether it's true or not that's the perception among some.
Why is that so important to anyone to be part of the "Club" ?
Being excluded is annoying. I have never asked for or desired Gutter membership.
Don't you moaners see how you can be perceived as just vain ?
Given the fact that the Gutter is about venting and is apparently a fairly exclusive club, I think this a pot and kettle situation.
I can understand why people are curious about what the Gutter is about but why should anyone outside it, for whatever reason, give a rat's arse about what's going on inside ?
Why is that so important to anyone to be part of the "Club" ?
Don't you moaners see how you can be perceived as just vain ?
In the Gutter, they plot and scheme on non-gutter members to target, troll, and annoy.
They also have a chill time badmouthing forum members in very uncool ways. :D:D:D
This sounds great. I say we implement it.
Honestly.
Minor footnote: Except that we'd get a Gutter 3 for people who are excluded from Gutter 1 and 2, and so on.
Wouldn't need it; gutter 2 would be fully inclusive.
Right?
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Hmm... There's something wrong with this argumentation...
If Hitler would've said in 1942 like 'We Germans want to be left alone from now on. What about this offends you?', would people really say something like 'Oh yea, he's right. We'll call it a day.'
The Gutter isn't Nazi Germany.
There's nothing bad going on inside the gutter besides high levels of profanity and flaming of different members of Salvation. I don't see the big deal, because that's what it's for.
Maybe you'll get Archenemy cards in your Duel Decks From The Vault: Deck Builder's Toolkit All-Foil Duels of the Planeswalkers Downloadable Content Expansion (Tactics Edition).
Hmm... There's something wrong with this argumentation...
If Hitler would've said in 1942 like 'We Germans want to be left alone from now on. What about this offends you?', would people really say something like 'Oh yea, he's right. We'll call it a day.'
Seriously though, the gutter isn't actually hurting anyone - if people did get hurt by what certain people had said it was because people we don't really want in the gutter decided to take gutter posts and show them to the people who would find them offensive. Blaming the gutter for this is like blaming the bullet for killing someone. It was users who aren't really part of the gutter who pulled the trigger.
Apart from when someone like you upsets someone in gutter 2 and then goes on a personal crusade to get gutter 2 shut down. Then gutter 3 would spawn. As long as there are the real irritants out there, then there can't be an all inclusive gutter.
I would wait for Anti-AntiGutter. As in subforum 3. I bet all the the REAL cool people would be there.
I feel kinda tired of this at this point. Its up to the Mod's and most of them seem to like it. So that is that.
The kind of people who cause frustration aren't the kind of people who need to vent their frustrations.
and you, sir, have utterly lost it... any way you wish to take it. i get frustrated with MANY people on these forums - yes, even when it has nothing to do with the godforsaken loserland gutter - but i can exercise a degree of self-control to be as civil as possible - or STFU - when i have something less than nice to say. i should think that self-control is possible for all but a) the very young, and b) the developmentally challenged. if you do not fall in those categories, what about STFU and ignore the idiots can you NOT accomplish that, thus, requires you to retreat to your private hole-in-the-wall, instead of, say IM/PM/chat rooms? so that drama from there can spill out into the main forums every so often? infantile.
In the Gutter, they plot and scheme on non-gutter members to target, troll, and annoy.
They also have a chill time badmouthing forum members in very uncool ways. :D:D:D
see, that's not cool that MTGS does not offer ALL a place to do that. ah, but then those who wish to badmouth others might actually get badmouthed right back by those they speak ill of, and then they might actually be exposed as petty or ignorant. and, apparently, we can't have that... but only for specific people on the forum. see where it goes all wrong?
If Hitler would've said in 1942 like 'We Germans want to be left alone from now on. What about this offends you?', would people really say something like 'Oh yea, he's right. We'll call it a day.'
excellent point. god child, not doing well down here. maybe you should just stick to the gutter.
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see, that's not cool that MTGS does not offer ALL a place to do that. ah, but then those who wish to badmouth others might actually get badmouthed right back by those they speak ill of, and then they might actually be exposed as petty or ignorant. and, apparently, we can't have that... but only for specific people on the forum. see where it goes all wrong?
I don't know if you checked, but by clicking on agentORANGE's username you can look at his profile and see that he is not a member of the gutter. So, you see, he doesn't actually know what he is talking about when he tells you what the gutter does. His post is actually the most blatant troll is this thread by a huge margin, and there is a great deal of trolling going on in this thread.
excellent point. god child, not doing well down here. maybe you should just stick to the gutter.
Yeah, the nazi comparison is really accurate and put me back in my place (:confused:). In case you hadn't noticed, all I want to do is stick to the gutter, but there are people out here trying to get it closed.
Seriously though, the gutter isn't actually hurting anyone - if people did get hurt by what certain people had said it was because people we don't really want in the gutter decided to take gutter posts and show them to the people who would find them offensive.
So why then, should MTGSalvation condone the Gutter? Why shouldn't it reject the Gutter from these forums?
And despite any arguments to say that the Gutter isn't part of MTGSalvation, it is. Just look at your User CP and click on the Group Memberships link. The Gutter is right there. The Gutter is on users' profiles. The Gutter's members are the same people coming here.
So what positive thing does the Gutter do, really? Let members do things they normally wouldn't be able to do on the main forum? You can just as easily take all of that malarkey somewhere else, as far as I'm concerned.
I don't know if you checked, but by clicking on agentORANGE's username you can look at his profile and see that he is not a member of the gutter. So, you see, he doesn't actually know what he is talking about when he tells you what the gutter does.
i think i have a fair idea about what the gutter "does" from the conversations gutterites have had in defense of their little haven. regardless, the point i raise is no less valid, and you have not addressed what i have written in any way to satisfactorily deny any of my post. and, if nothing bad really goes on there, then why can't it be opened to the public?
Yeah, the nazi comparison is really accurate and put me back in my place (:confused:). In case you hadn't noticed, all I want to do is stick to the gutter, but there are people out here trying to get it closed.
you and i both know that the gutter will never get closed, at least not as long as the current staff is in place. this doesn't mean i have no right to complain about its existence, and you have a right to defend it. all i'm saying is i don't think you're doing that grand of a job of it, and perhaps the reason *you* need the gutter is because your argumentative skills are, well, poor, and can't withstand counterattack.
So what positive thing does the Gutter do, really? Let members do things they normally wouldn't be able to do on the main forum? You can just as easily take all of that malarkey somewhere else, as far as I'm concerned.
right on. excellent point, sir.
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EDIT: @gc: the Gutter really isn't hurting anyone?
Why not answer this for yourself, since you are not apart of the gutter. I say this because others in this thread claim they can't trust the opinions of the gutter. I just wish to hear from a non-gutterite perspective what has occurred outside the gutter that has caused problems out in the gutter.
From my point of view, the gutter is a place where people are able to point out things on the regular forums that are funny, stupid, or downright annoying, without getting infracted/warned for pointing out this fact. The gutter is the testing grounds, but with the ability to curse, flame and troll. When people move things that are in the gutter out of the gutter they are infracted. Those who are QQ'ing about getting gbanned are just sad that someone cut off an inch off their e-peen and aren't willing to admit it or suffer the consequences of seeming "weak or "inadequate".
The reason the gutter remains on this site is because it should not be viewed as an inconvenience to those who are not a part of it and it WOULD be an inconvenience to those who use it and would have to go elsewhere to find it. It shouldn't bother those who are Gbanned what others are saying about them. If you have a "thick enough skin" to not feel sorry about yourself for getting Gbanned, you should have a thick enough skin to not cry yourself into oblivion for what someone said in the gutter about you.
Quote from God of Cyanide »
i think i have a fair idea about what the gutter "does" from the conversations gutterites have had in defense of their little haven. regardless, the point i raise is no less valid, and you have not addressed what i have written in any way to satisfactorily deny any of my post. and, if nothing bad really goes on there, then why can't it be opened to the public?
Because it doesn't follow forum rules it must be made private because it does not follow the "not PG-13 or NSFW" guidelines. And because some people would definitely claim for it's closure the second someone posts a thread about them.
And if you think that people don't fire flak at each other while inside the gutter, you are SORELY mistaken.
EDIT: Sorry about that, i broke the forum code on the second one. You did post the first one however.
stuff in response to horrible and wrong paraphrases
I didn't post anything you just quoted. >.< Please quote what I actually said please.
Quote from what I actually said »
Quote:
Originally Posted by god child It seems to me that some users believe that certain members of our staff let a personal dislike of sakura affect their decision to ban her - and that the gutter is at fault here.
I think that the mods were waiting for an excuse to ban Sakura and that certain mods certainly did dislike her. The gutter isn't responsible at all. Did some members purposely bait and troll Sakura to goad her into flaming? I think so but maybe I'm just paranoid and cynical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by god child So what negative affect has the gutter actually had on mtgsalvation in, say, the last six months?
Alot more people know about it now than they did a year ago. This knowledge has created an atmosphere of distrust. What if someone who you consider a friend is saying things about you in the gutter? What if someone who dislikes you is plotting to embarass you? There are alot more what if's attached to the gutter and thats the core of why people are inclined to distrust the gutter and the people who post there.
__________________
First thing: Guys, I'd really appreciate it if you'd tone down the attitudes somewhat. Seeing as the name of THIS forum is SYM, and normal MTGS rules DO apply here, what I'm reading is a liitle more trolling than I want to see here.
I realize this is a heated topic, so there IS leeway, but don't stretch it too far.
Second: Yes, I post in the Gutter. I am NOT an official member, though- seems they can't gutterban admins. I post there. I even admit to posting things about other people that could be considered flaming, insulting, and what have you. Why lie? I'm not going to insult peoples' intelligence by lying about it. Thing is, most of it'a in good fun. I've gotten my fair share of flames from other users and I'm not complaining about it.
However, as an administrator, my personal feelings and my position are separate. I do not give preferential treatment to anyone, nor do I attempt to push punishment on people I don't personally like. That'd be WAY screwed up. So, even if you don't like me, Bitsy, because you have the erroneous belief that I was gunning for a ban, it's not true. I wasn't SAD, which is my right as a person, but I certainly didn't hasten it.
Quote from Bitsy »
I think that the mods were waiting for an excuse to ban Sakura and that certain mods certainly did dislike her. The gutter isn't responsible at all. Did some members purposely bait and troll Sakura to goad her into flaming? I think so but maybe I'm just paranoid and cynical.
You have the right to believe as you wish, but that does not make it the truth. Of course, you probably don't believe me, which is ALSO your right. I was tired of the constant drama. So was approximately half the site. Guess that makes me a bad person.
I am in favor of keeping the Gutter around. If you're not a member, then it shouldn't concern you. I have griped at any number of gutterites for their actions outside the gutter, and while they've no real reason to listen to me, some have. Those that haven't tend to get yellow and red cards on their posts. As long as it's kept there, then there should be no issues.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
you and i both know that the gutter will never get closed, at least not as long as the current staff is in place. this doesn't mean i have no right to complain about its existence, and you have a right to defend it. all i'm saying is i don't think you're doing that grand of a job of it, and perhaps the reason *you* need the gutter is because your argumentative skills are, well, poor, and can't withstand counterattack.
Oh, you're trying to troll me. I get it now. How ironic.
So why then, should MTGSalvation condone the Gutter? Why shouldn't it reject the Gutter from these forums?
You've missed my point slightly: I'm saying that the problem isn't caused by people saying mean things, it is caused by other people taking it upon their selves to show these mean things to as many people as possible who might take offense. Even if the mean things are being said off-site, the same people can still get the posts and show the around. Moving the gutter doesn't solve the problem because the gutter isn't the problem.
However, as an administrator, my personal feelings and my position are separate. I do not give preferential treatment to anyone, nor do I attempt to push punishment on people I don't personally like. That'd be WAY screwed up. So, even if you don't like me, Bitsy, because you have the erroneous belief that I was gunning for a ban, it's not true. I wasn't SAD, which is my right as a person, but I certainly didn't hasten it.
You have the right to believe as you wish, but that does not make it the truth. Of course, you probably don't believe me, which is ALSO your right. I was tired of the constant drama. So was approximately half the site. Guess that makes me a bad person.
Feel free to pm me if you have anything to say to me. Talking in the forums is for attention *****s and trolls. No offense but you have to agree with that.
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One thing that I find really frustrating is people who are too uptight to vent their frustrations - and other people in the gutter also find this frustrating.
Can I make this very clear: we in the gutter want, above all else, to be left alone. What about this offends you?
Uh, no further questions, your honor.
That's how we pronounce it in Wisconsin.
And spam is spam regardless of state of origin. - AoK
Despite multiple well-worded sugar-coated Mod and Admin assurances, it is difficult to believe any of these statements... at least to their full extent. It doesn't make sense to take the word of those who claim the Gutter is harmless when the same people are those in question who are slandering, scheming, and involving in other forms of hateful bigotry.
Though I haven't read any exceptionally vulgar Gutter posts by you, the same can not be said for Annorax and some other mods. My problem with the gutter is not only with normal members but to an even greater degree with the mod and admin members.
I don't mind a mod lounge with some profanity but the gutter is too much.
this doesn't make much sense to me - you don't have a problem with admin and moderators expressing dislike for specific posters - you just have a problem with it being viewed by a small group of people who aren't staff?
a very 'head-in-the-sand' approach
Close the group to new members and no one will ever bother you again. As long as people can join and be booted there will always be some curiousity and suspicion surrounding the gutter. I'd be happy if there were another usergroup where other users had a chance to vent w/o fear of being disliked by the other users. Festivus for the rest of us.
I am sure such a forum would be only helpful, as it would allow people that can't vent their frustration on the Gutter to vent their frustration. So, it would decrease trolling and flaming and stuff, right?
It could not cause problems because it would not be on the main forum. Right?
I have been arguing in the gutter that new membership should be closed for the next six months
And I know nobody believes me but there isn't any gutter conspiracy to attack and ban members we don't like - and there hasn't been this kind of conspiracy for over two years.
It is kind of amusing that the strongest opposition to the gutter comes at a point in the gutters life where it is causing the least trouble for the main forum
Edit:
Anything outside of the gutter and sym might as well be a hidden forum to me
Then don't believe them. There's not much I can do to convince you except this:
Gutter behavior is against the rules of the main boards in the first place. Flaming, trolling spamming, it's all covered. So in terms of that behavior getting punished on the main forums, I shouldn't have to convince you - it's already being done. And has been for a long time.
And as for the Gutter response to such behavior 'flowing over', take just one second to think of it from the Gutter's perspective. Every time some nimrod posts out here as they would in the Gutter, it reflects badly on the Gutter itself. Every troll, every flame every poorly-thought argument - all of it makes people like you speak out against the Gutter itself. Do you think for even one second that people who like the Gutter and want it to stick around will tolerate users giving them a bad name? No, absolutely not. We don't sit in there laughing at one of our own getting in trouble and having it blow back on us. We just don't, not when the nimrods are putting the Gutter itself in Jeopardy.
So take that as you will. It doesn't matter if I've convinced you. Trolls and spammers will still be punished on the forums and members who can't keep their **** straight outside the Gutter will be Gutterbanned. That will happen with or without your belief.
Then take it from me since by your own word you haven't seen any exceptionally vulgar Gutter posts by me.
I would say your problem is formulating complete opinions with incomplete information, but that's just me.
So where do we draw the line? The staff can badmouth people, but just in the Mod Cave and not in the Gutter??
Whaaaaaaa?
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No... I said I didn't have a problem with SOME profanity. What's in the gutter is much more than SOME and much worse than just profanity. There shouldn't be a Gutter for Mods or normal members.
I won't leave the gutter alone until it either (1) stops discussion of non-gutter MTGS members or (2) receives a new set of strong rules and long needed modding.
Mind I say that I'm actually being compromising. From my point of view, there probably shouldn't be any Gutter at all.
Being excluded is annoying. I have never asked for or desired Gutter membership.
Given the fact that the Gutter is about venting and is apparently a fairly exclusive club, I think this a pot and kettle situation.
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Trade with me http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=101483&highlight=" rel="nofollow"here.
In the Gutter, they plot and scheme on non-gutter members to target, troll, and annoy.
They also have a chill time badmouthing forum members in very uncool ways. :D:D:D
Wouldn't need it; gutter 2 would be fully inclusive.
Right?
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The Gutter isn't Nazi Germany.
There's nothing bad going on inside the gutter besides high levels of profanity and flaming of different members of Salvation. I don't see the big deal, because that's what it's for.
THREAD COMPLETED; gutter=nazi germany analogy posted.
Seriously though, the gutter isn't actually hurting anyone - if people did get hurt by what certain people had said it was because people we don't really want in the gutter decided to take gutter posts and show them to the people who would find them offensive. Blaming the gutter for this is like blaming the bullet for killing someone. It was users who aren't really part of the gutter who pulled the trigger.
I feel kinda tired of this at this point. Its up to the Mod's and most of them seem to like it. So that is that.
loserlandgutter - but i can exercise a degree of self-control to be as civil as possible - or STFU - when i have something less than nice to say. i should think that self-control is possible for all but a) the very young, and b) the developmentally challenged. if you do not fall in those categories, what about STFU and ignore the idiots can you NOT accomplish that, thus, requires you to retreat to your private hole-in-the-wall, instead of, say IM/PM/chat rooms? so that drama from there can spill out into the main forums every so often? infantile. if you get that frustrated over an internet forum, that you need to be left alone, get away from your computer and, i don't know, read a book. see, that's not cool that MTGS does not offer ALL a place to do that. ah, but then those who wish to badmouth others might actually get badmouthed right back by those they speak ill of, and then they might actually be exposed as petty or ignorant. and, apparently, we can't have that... but only for specific people on the forum. see where it goes all wrong? excellent point. god child, not doing well down here. maybe you should just stick to the gutter.The MirroCube - 420 card Mirrodin themed cube
And if I've offended you, I'm sorry, but maybe you need to be offended. But here's my apology and one more thing...
I don't know if you checked, but by clicking on agentORANGE's username you can look at his profile and see that he is not a member of the gutter. So, you see, he doesn't actually know what he is talking about when he tells you what the gutter does. His post is actually the most blatant troll is this thread by a huge margin, and there is a great deal of trolling going on in this thread.
Yeah, the nazi comparison is really accurate and put me back in my place (:confused:). In case you hadn't noticed, all I want to do is stick to the gutter, but there are people out here trying to get it closed.
And despite any arguments to say that the Gutter isn't part of MTGSalvation, it is. Just look at your User CP and click on the Group Memberships link. The Gutter is right there. The Gutter is on users' profiles. The Gutter's members are the same people coming here.
So what positive thing does the Gutter do, really? Let members do things they normally wouldn't be able to do on the main forum? You can just as easily take all of that malarkey somewhere else, as far as I'm concerned.
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Why not answer this for yourself, since you are not apart of the gutter. I say this because others in this thread claim they can't trust the opinions of the gutter. I just wish to hear from a non-gutterite perspective what has occurred outside the gutter that has caused problems out in the gutter.
From my point of view, the gutter is a place where people are able to point out things on the regular forums that are funny, stupid, or downright annoying, without getting infracted/warned for pointing out this fact. The gutter is the testing grounds, but with the ability to curse, flame and troll. When people move things that are in the gutter out of the gutter they are infracted. Those who are QQ'ing about getting gbanned are just sad that someone cut off an inch off their e-peen and aren't willing to admit it or suffer the consequences of seeming "weak or "inadequate".
The reason the gutter remains on this site is because it should not be viewed as an inconvenience to those who are not a part of it and it WOULD be an inconvenience to those who use it and would have to go elsewhere to find it. It shouldn't bother those who are Gbanned what others are saying about them. If you have a "thick enough skin" to not feel sorry about yourself for getting Gbanned, you should have a thick enough skin to not cry yourself into oblivion for what someone said in the gutter about you.
Because it doesn't follow forum rules it must be made private because it does not follow the "not PG-13 or NSFW" guidelines. And because some people would definitely claim for it's closure the second someone posts a thread about them.
And if you think that people don't fire flak at each other while inside the gutter, you are SORELY mistaken.
EDIT: Sorry about that, i broke the forum code on the second one. You did post the first one however.
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I didn't post anything you just quoted. >.< Please quote what I actually said please.
You did say the first quoted portion. Sorry about that.
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First thing: Guys, I'd really appreciate it if you'd tone down the attitudes somewhat. Seeing as the name of THIS forum is SYM, and normal MTGS rules DO apply here, what I'm reading is a liitle more trolling than I want to see here.
I realize this is a heated topic, so there IS leeway, but don't stretch it too far.
Second: Yes, I post in the Gutter. I am NOT an official member, though- seems they can't gutterban admins. I post there. I even admit to posting things about other people that could be considered flaming, insulting, and what have you. Why lie? I'm not going to insult peoples' intelligence by lying about it. Thing is, most of it'a in good fun. I've gotten my fair share of flames from other users and I'm not complaining about it.
However, as an administrator, my personal feelings and my position are separate. I do not give preferential treatment to anyone, nor do I attempt to push punishment on people I don't personally like. That'd be WAY screwed up. So, even if you don't like me, Bitsy, because you have the erroneous belief that I was gunning for a ban, it's not true. I wasn't SAD, which is my right as a person, but I certainly didn't hasten it.
You have the right to believe as you wish, but that does not make it the truth. Of course, you probably don't believe me, which is ALSO your right. I was tired of the constant drama. So was approximately half the site. Guess that makes me a bad person.
I am in favor of keeping the Gutter around. If you're not a member, then it shouldn't concern you. I have griped at any number of gutterites for their actions outside the gutter, and while they've no real reason to listen to me, some have. Those that haven't tend to get yellow and red cards on their posts. As long as it's kept there, then there should be no issues.
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Oh, you're trying to troll me. I get it now. How ironic.
You've missed my point slightly: I'm saying that the problem isn't caused by people saying mean things, it is caused by other people taking it upon their selves to show these mean things to as many people as possible who might take offense. Even if the mean things are being said off-site, the same people can still get the posts and show the around. Moving the gutter doesn't solve the problem because the gutter isn't the problem.
Why do you feel I was referring to you?
You have the right to believe as you wish, but that does not make it the truth. Of course, you probably don't believe me, which is ALSO your right. I was tired of the constant drama. So was approximately half the site. Guess that makes me a bad person.
Feel free to pm me if you have anything to say to me. Talking in the forums is for attention *****s and trolls. No offense but you have to agree with that.