When I first saw Isolated Watchtower, I thought it was going to be a shoe-in for any deck not running green. But apparently not that many people play it, so I'm curious: how has it performed for you?
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When I first saw Isolated Watchtower, I thought it was going to be a shoe-in for any deck not running green. But apparently not that many people play it, so I'm curious: how has it performed for you?
The answer is that it is good sometimes. In a mono-colored non-green deck, it is good. It allows some ramp. As your colors increase, it gets worse, because more non-basics get added. As your mana base gets better, it gets worse. Honestly, mono red and white are all I would use it in. Green has ramp while black and blue allow enough card draw to make it unnecessary, and running a land that generates colored mana much better.
The games HAVE to be slow in order to use utility lands in general. Most games don't give you breathing room to mess around with 3 mana like that every turn.
So obviously you need a very close to all basics land base, but you also have to either have a slow meta, or have a deck that can allow for this type of messing around.
For example a control deck that has a lot of mass removal, or a pillow fort deck, or just any plan that makes it so that games do not get out-of-control turns.
Also the two lands more criteria means that you're probably not running much land ramp either.
The short answer is that it really only going to do actual work for you in VERY specific decks.
I found it to be terrible and removed it. It's so conditional - you have to be behind just to activate it, and then it doesn't even guarantee that it will help. Not a fan at all.
The games HAVE to be slow in order to use utility lands in general. Most games don't give you breathing room to mess around with 3 mana like that every turn.
So obviously you need a very close to all basics land base, but you also have to either have a slow meta, or have a deck that can allow for this type of messing around...
Also the two lands more criteria means that you're probably not running much land ramp either.
I think I would disagree with this in part. It definitely does not have to be a slow meta for utility lands to matter. Lands such as strip mine are always useful, and I would argue that even in a high speed meta isolated watchtower could be useful, it just depends on the deck. In a fast mono-red or mono-white deck, it’s extremely normal and easy to meet the criteria of two fewer lands. if you have any extra mana at end of turn, you can activate watchtower. It’s a semi-ramping mana sink, which is pretty decent.
Now, with that all said, I would normally argue for the utilization of artifact ramp instead of hoping to score off of watchtower.
The games HAVE to be slow in order to use utility lands in general. Most games don't give you breathing room to mess around with 3 mana like that every turn.
So obviously you need a very close to all basics land base, but you also have to either have a slow meta, or have a deck that can allow for this type of messing around...
Also the two lands more criteria means that you're probably not running much land ramp either.
I think I would disagree with this in part. It definitely does not have to be a slow meta for utility lands to matter. Lands such as strip mine are always useful, and I would argue that even in a high speed meta isolated watchtower could be useful, it just depends on the deck. In a fast mono-red or mono-white deck, it’s extremely normal and easy to meet the criteria of two fewer lands. if you have any extra mana at end of turn, you can activate watchtower. It’s a semi-ramping mana sink, which is pretty decent.
Now, with that all said, I would normally argue for the utilization of artifact ramp instead of hoping to score off of watchtower.
I'd better clarify, I should have said utility lands that require investing mana.
So even though something like Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin is an amazing ability, the number of times I use it during games are very few. Like maybe I'd use it once in 4 games of it being transformed. Such is the speed of what is going on, that I need to use it for the mana most turns, and indeed games.
Of course utility lands that require mana are going to be good in the builds that they are good for, so Alchemist's Refuge wins me games in certain builds, and Kor Haven has saved my ass many times in my control builds that look to slow the game down.
But I feel it's important to be aware that jamming a card like Arch of Orazca or Isolated Watchtower into a build, is only going to become of use less than half of your games. The other majority part, you'd preferred to get colored mana off the land.
This sort of discussion has been done in this thread -> How good are these utility lands?. It's one of the most misunderstood faults of deck making by commander players in my opinion.
People underrate the importance of colored sources of mana in their deck, compared to what they think the pay-off for utility lands provide. This might even be from utility lands that do provide a colored source but come into play tapped.
Of course this all depends on how casual to competitive your playing groups are, and also if your deck build is really geared to utilize them in special ways.
I kept this card in the Aminatou deck for a while, as it seemed to fit, but as I was building a better mana base my basic count wasn't enough to warrant the scry. It is however now in my mono white deck and has been decent there. I use Druidic Satchel in Aminatou instead and has been stellar for the similar effect.
I found it to be terrible and removed it. It's so conditional - you have to be behind just to activate it, and then it doesn't even guarantee that it will help. Not a fan at all.
This. Build a better manabase and don't shortchange yourself on your land count, and you shouldn't ever be behind on land drops. The only time you should be able to activate this land is when there's a green ramp deck at the table. I like the above idea for Druidic Satchel.
It's not an ideal effect. I use it as mana-screw insurance in my mono white build, but that's only because I can't afford Thawing Glaciers.
Thawing Glaciers is a great land for mono color decks.
Thawing glaciers has a side benefit of being able to ramp multiple times in the same turn before the delayed trigger (of returning it back to hand) goes off.
Scrutiny sheets can be better because is searched for snow. Including snow non-lands. Can make a difference!
In my mono white build though, I’ve got land tax, tithe, gift of estates, and weathered wayfarer. They seem to help enough. I might give that land a go though just to see how it goes. It has the slight upside of digging for combo pieces too, which can be necessary. I suspect scroll rack with land tax would be far better
I'd run it in my Intet, The Dreamer for the scry effect attached to a land. It already uses Theros Temples. The free land drop is more of an attached bonus in this regards.
I'd run it in my Intet, The Dreamer for the scry effect attached to a land. It already uses Theros Temples. The free land drop is more of an attached bonus in this regards.
The problem is that you can only use the effect AT ALL if an opponent is 2 lands ahead of you. I'd be happier with it if you were able to scry 1, and only ramp to battlefield is an opponent is 2 lands ahead. As it is, the ability has a really reduced range of versatility. It really only helps you keep up if you're already behind, and then when you've caught up if it won't help you get ahead on ramp, it'll just provide 1.
It does offer other snow cards, true. On the flip side, you get nothing, not even a scry, on the whiff. But at least you can do it at any time. But if you use MLD (and use it the right way, none of these frustrationgeddons that annoy the hell out of me and give MLD a bad name), then Isolated Watchtower can be really fun. (Using it the right way means mana dorks/rocks being out before you blow everybody's lands up.)
The good thing about both is, they don't ETB tapped, which is practically a mortal sin for lands. (For me, a land must produce at least 3 colors of mana before I consider it for an ETB tapped. The exceptions are scrylands, and conditional ETBs where it's easy to fulfill the condition. Possibly refuges in Oloro because "Kicker 1. If CARDNAME was kicked, draw a card and each opponent loses 1 life." is always nice.) But since they make colorless mana, it depends on how much you need colored mana (or for Scrying Sheets, snow mana).
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Is it generally good? No. In fact, in most decks it is straight-out bad. Is it good in very specific decks/situations? Yes, as others have detailed above.
I play a LOT of mono white and in my opinion, the card is not good enough. If you are in a meta where a lot of people play green ramp decks I think its probably fine in a non green non ramp deck but I don't know. I really wish you could always activate to scry and the land part of it was only tied to if opponents had more lands than you. As it stands, I have more lands than my opponents way too often even when playing mono white.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I just scrolled by this thread a couple days ago and thought you meant Detection Tower and it's older cousin Arcane Lighthouse and thought "depends on your metagame I guess". Then I was confused by the replies mentioning "a slow meta". It confused me and only then did I see watchtower was a whole different card...
And then I read it. That card is trash, don't bother with it. You'll be better off. 😎
The answer is that it is good sometimes. In a mono-colored non-green deck, it is good. It allows some ramp. As your colors increase, it gets worse, because more non-basics get added. As your mana base gets better, it gets worse. Honestly, mono red and white are all I would use it in. Green has ramp while black and blue allow enough card draw to make it unnecessary, and running a land that generates colored mana much better.
So obviously you need a very close to all basics land base, but you also have to either have a slow meta, or have a deck that can allow for this type of messing around.
For example a control deck that has a lot of mass removal, or a pillow fort deck, or just any plan that makes it so that games do not get out-of-control turns.
Also the two lands more criteria means that you're probably not running much land ramp either.
The short answer is that it really only going to do actual work for you in VERY specific decks.
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I think I would disagree with this in part. It definitely does not have to be a slow meta for utility lands to matter. Lands such as strip mine are always useful, and I would argue that even in a high speed meta isolated watchtower could be useful, it just depends on the deck. In a fast mono-red or mono-white deck, it’s extremely normal and easy to meet the criteria of two fewer lands. if you have any extra mana at end of turn, you can activate watchtower. It’s a semi-ramping mana sink, which is pretty decent.
Now, with that all said, I would normally argue for the utilization of artifact ramp instead of hoping to score off of watchtower.
So even though something like Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin is an amazing ability, the number of times I use it during games are very few. Like maybe I'd use it once in 4 games of it being transformed. Such is the speed of what is going on, that I need to use it for the mana most turns, and indeed games.
Of course utility lands that require mana are going to be good in the builds that they are good for, so Alchemist's Refuge wins me games in certain builds, and Kor Haven has saved my ass many times in my control builds that look to slow the game down.
But I feel it's important to be aware that jamming a card like Arch of Orazca or Isolated Watchtower into a build, is only going to become of use less than half of your games. The other majority part, you'd preferred to get colored mana off the land.
This sort of discussion has been done in this thread -> How good are these utility lands?. It's one of the most misunderstood faults of deck making by commander players in my opinion.
People underrate the importance of colored sources of mana in their deck, compared to what they think the pay-off for utility lands provide. This might even be from utility lands that do provide a colored source but come into play tapped.
Of course this all depends on how casual to competitive your playing groups are, and also if your deck build is really geared to utilize them in special ways.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
This. Build a better manabase and don't shortchange yourself on your land count, and you shouldn't ever be behind on land drops. The only time you should be able to activate this land is when there's a green ramp deck at the table. I like the above idea for Druidic Satchel.
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I don'tlike Scrying Sheets that much either. It's ok but that'sabout it.
Thawing Glaciers is a great land for mono color decks.
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In high-powered, high-tutor environments, it's not recommended though.
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Thawing glaciers has a side benefit of being able to ramp multiple times in the same turn before the delayed trigger (of returning it back to hand) goes off.
Scrutiny sheets can be better because is searched for snow. Including snow non-lands. Can make a difference!
In my mono white build though, I’ve got land tax, tithe, gift of estates, and weathered wayfarer. They seem to help enough. I might give that land a go though just to see how it goes. It has the slight upside of digging for combo pieces too, which can be necessary. I suspect scroll rack with land tax would be far better
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The problem is that you can only use the effect AT ALL if an opponent is 2 lands ahead of you. I'd be happier with it if you were able to scry 1, and only ramp to battlefield is an opponent is 2 lands ahead. As it is, the ability has a really reduced range of versatility. It really only helps you keep up if you're already behind, and then when you've caught up if it won't help you get ahead on ramp, it'll just provide 1.
It does offer other snow cards, true. On the flip side, you get nothing, not even a scry, on the whiff. But at least you can do it at any time. But if you use MLD (and use it the right way, none of these frustrationgeddons that annoy the hell out of me and give MLD a bad name), then Isolated Watchtower can be really fun. (Using it the right way means mana dorks/rocks being out before you blow everybody's lands up.)
The good thing about both is, they don't ETB tapped, which is practically a mortal sin for lands. (For me, a land must produce at least 3 colors of mana before I consider it for an ETB tapped. The exceptions are scrylands, and conditional ETBs where it's easy to fulfill the condition. Possibly refuges in Oloro because "Kicker 1. If CARDNAME was kicked, draw a card and each opponent loses 1 life." is always nice.) But since they make colorless mana, it depends on how much you need colored mana (or for Scrying Sheets, snow mana).
On phasing:
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And then I read it. That card is trash, don't bother with it. You'll be better off. 😎
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