Hi, I wanted to make a political deck. But not just any political deck. I've seen hundred of different group hug or pillowfort decks. While there is some kind of politic during the early game when using those, I don't consider it REAL politics. For me, politics is aobut making deals and allies, having answers to threats (in your hand so you don't look like a threat yourself) and going under the radar for the most part of the game.
When playing something like Howling Mine or Rite or Flourishing, you aren't rewarding someone in particular, you can't make a deal because the whole table will profit from it, and there is no motivationg to help you. So, what commanders can help a specific someone and (optionnaly) refil your hand? I see two commanders able to do that (but if you know another one, I'd be happy to hear it), Phelddagrif and Zedruu the Greathearted. It's only with those two that can say ''If you do X, I'll give you X''. As you've problably guessed, I went with Zedruu.
Now that this is out of the way, I've hit a dilemma with Zedruu. I want to be able people who help me, but I'm not sure what is the best way to do it, since the permanents I give should be appealing. I've thought about giving creatures, but even with a ''return'' package (Otherworldly Journey, Homeward Path) it sill feels like suicide to give something my opponents could kill me with. I've thought about artifact like mana rocks, but once I give a Sol Ring for instance, it's gone and I don't have anyway to get it back. Same thing for enchantment. Finally, I could give token, since they are pretty much harmless and I could produce them in mass (Kher Keep, Assemble the Legion) but they are most likely to die as a blocking or blocked in the next turn, before I can even make use of them with Zedruu's first ability. I want to hear your thoughts and opinions, which way is the way to go? Or do you see another option?
Cheers!
Actually, there are ways to get noncreatures back. Venser, the Sojourner, and bounces like Devastation Tide or Cyclonic Rift (or the very powerful Tidespout Tyrant). And you probably won't want to donate anything that can kill you in the first place. And I probably wouldn't donate my Sol Ring.
But there also other kinds of things you can donate. Auras, for example, usually still affect the enchanted creature or player regardless of the aura's controller, so you can donate those. That's why global effects are often donated with Zedruu so that it still affects everyone and you draw cards. You can also donate lands, and there are a handful of cards that swap control of lands. You can also donate useless things — Pentad Prism can be used to get Zedruu out on turn 3, and once it has no counters, just donate it.
Zedruu and Phelddagrif (particularly DirkGently's version) are very different flavors of politics. The huge control package in the latter is more of a "don't mess with me or you'll lose something" politics. Alliances can only be temporary and conditional, anyway, but you can go in a few different directions here. Zedruu can make meaningless donations, mean donations (things that hinder or hurt the controlling player), global donations. Making donations that are beneficial to one player that isn't you is a pretty fine line to walk such that it doesn't contribute to your defeat, though.
Check out the Curses in C17. They are all great for this kind of play. Curse of Opulence, Curse of Vitality, Curse of Verbosity all reward people for attacking the way you want, and you can even exchange possession of them and still take advantage of them. Since they are already targeted by the time you would donate them, you have set the parameters of how you want them used, and they can't really be turned against you. That would be a decent start.
Actually, there are ways to get noncreatures back. Venser, the Sojourner, and bounces like Devastation Tide or Cyclonic Rift (or the very powerful Tidespout Tyrant). And you probably won't want to donate anything that can kill you in the first place. And I probably wouldn't donate my Sol Ring.
But there also other kinds of things you can donate. Auras, for example, usually still affect the enchanted creature or player regardless of the aura's controller, so you can donate those. That's why global effects are often donated with Zedruu so that it still affects everyone and you draw cards. You can also donate lands, and there are a handful of cards that swap control of lands. You can also donate useless things — Pentad Prism can be used to get Zedruu out on turn 3, and once it has no counters, just donate it.
Zedruu and Phelddagrif (particularly DirkGently's version) are very different flavors of politics. The huge control package in the latter is more of a "don't mess with me or you'll lose something" politics. Alliances can only be temporary and conditional, anyway, but you can go in a few different directions here. Zedruu can make meaningless donations, mean donations (things that hinder or hurt the controlling player), global donations. Making donations that are beneficial to one player that isn't you is a pretty fine line to walk such that it doesn't contribute to your defeat, though.
Thank you for the cards to gain back my permanent! But to further explain what I meant: of course I wouldn't give someone a Blightsteel Colossus, that could actually kill me, or my Sol Ring, ''good'' donations would be more along the lines of a Brazen Scourge or a Manalith, things that won't drastically affect the game, but that are nice enough that you'd (hopefully) be willing to use a removal for me or to not attack me. I know that's kinda optimistic, but that's what I hoped to do with this deck, to be able to have small temporary alliances to carry me to the final two players while still being a threat, a bit like DirkGently's Phelddagrif from what I understand. So I guess my question would be : What are the best cards to give to someone, good enough that he'd be willing to do my biddings, but still manageable as a opponent, if those cards even exist. I know that you can donate useless permanent, but I wanted help to known how to use Zedruu's power politicaly.
When playing something like Howling Mine or Rite or Flourishing, you aren't rewarding someone in particular, you can't make a deal because the whole table will profit from it, and there is no motivationg to help you. So, what commanders can help a specific someone and (optionnaly) refil your hand? I see two commanders able to do that (but if you know another one, I'd be happy to hear it), Phelddagrif and Zedruu the Greathearted. It's only with those two that can say ''If you do X, I'll give you X''. As you've problably guessed, I went with Zedruu.
Now that this is out of the way, I've hit a dilemma with Zedruu. I want to be able people who help me, but I'm not sure what is the best way to do it, since the permanents I give should be appealing. I've thought about giving creatures, but even with a ''return'' package (Otherworldly Journey, Homeward Path) it sill feels like suicide to give something my opponents could kill me with. I've thought about artifact like mana rocks, but once I give a Sol Ring for instance, it's gone and I don't have anyway to get it back. Same thing for enchantment. Finally, I could give token, since they are pretty much harmless and I could produce them in mass (Kher Keep, Assemble the Legion) but they are most likely to die as a blocking or blocked in the next turn, before I can even make use of them with Zedruu's first ability. I want to hear your thoughts and opinions, which way is the way to go? Or do you see another option?
Cheers!
But there also other kinds of things you can donate. Auras, for example, usually still affect the enchanted creature or player regardless of the aura's controller, so you can donate those. That's why global effects are often donated with Zedruu so that it still affects everyone and you draw cards. You can also donate lands, and there are a handful of cards that swap control of lands. You can also donate useless things — Pentad Prism can be used to get Zedruu out on turn 3, and once it has no counters, just donate it.
Zedruu and Phelddagrif (particularly DirkGently's version) are very different flavors of politics. The huge control package in the latter is more of a "don't mess with me or you'll lose something" politics. Alliances can only be temporary and conditional, anyway, but you can go in a few different directions here. Zedruu can make meaningless donations, mean donations (things that hinder or hurt the controlling player), global donations. Making donations that are beneficial to one player that isn't you is a pretty fine line to walk such that it doesn't contribute to your defeat, though.
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Thank you for the cards to gain back my permanent! But to further explain what I meant: of course I wouldn't give someone a Blightsteel Colossus, that could actually kill me, or my Sol Ring, ''good'' donations would be more along the lines of a Brazen Scourge or a Manalith, things that won't drastically affect the game, but that are nice enough that you'd (hopefully) be willing to use a removal for me or to not attack me. I know that's kinda optimistic, but that's what I hoped to do with this deck, to be able to have small temporary alliances to carry me to the final two players while still being a threat, a bit like DirkGently's Phelddagrif from what I understand. So I guess my question would be : What are the best cards to give to someone, good enough that he'd be willing to do my biddings, but still manageable as a opponent, if those cards even exist. I know that you can donate useless permanent, but I wanted help to known how to use Zedruu's power politicaly.