EDIT: suggestions can be for flyers in general, not just Dragons.
Hi all,
My friend plays 3 EDH decks based around Dragons. I would like to create a new deck in order to deal with those pesky flying critters... I would like a few suggestions about choosing the best commander to fit this role. I am thinking about using green since that color has a lot of ways to neuter flyers, such as: Silklash Spider Gravity Well Stingerfling Spider Whirlwind hurricane
My initial search for my commander has not yielded anything that gave me that "Euraka" moment. So if you can suggest someone which you think might fit the requirements to better survive, scratch that, to win more consistently against Dragons, I would truly appreciate.
I'd strongly advice you not to build a deck just to counter Dragon Tribal decks. You'd limit yourself a lot and may kill the overall appeal for the Dragon Guy.
While dragons may swing for absurd sums they cost quite some mana and only show up in few numbers (except when Utvara Hellkite becomes involved), so there are different ways to deal with this.
For one, be the faster deck. If you are pro active you force your opponents to either react and therefor not advance their own game plan or deal with the consequences, with both increasing your chances of winning.
Second, pack enough answers. May it be enough instant speed spot removals or board wipes. Crux of Fate is a great example, even if you weren't facing dragons at all. Dusk||Dawn, Austere Command and others are completely one sided options, if you have decks that go well with them. Same is true for force sac effects, since by nature dragons don't go wide. In the right deck Grave Pact/Dictate of Erebos et al cripple them.
Overall pick a commander you like independent of dragons and you should be able to build a deck that can cope with them, if you put enough effort into it.
As for colors, outside of mono-U and mono-G you should be able to deal with them permanently. So don't shy away from anything or feel like you need to include something specific.
You have a valid point, I don't really want to build such a specific deck. But this guy has been playing the same decks for 2 years now and I am getting a bit tired to see them. And he often wins. I have to say that he is planning a 4th deck - Dragons again! - yes, that's all he ever plays. My goal is to show him that he should try to build something else.
Anyhow, my deck will be built to nullify flyers in general, not necessarily Dragons. So fire away with your ideas for my general.
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Let the man play what he wants. Build a clone deck and you'll usually be able to do what he does but more efficiently and it's flattering rather than you just being a jerk to someone.
I can't say how to beat dragon decks but I get the appeal. I wanted a dragon deck since I started playing commander and no general appealed to me until ur dragon was printed. Been playing and tweaking my dragon deck since. (Now valued at over 4.5k.)
Anyway, Cruz of fate is a good removal spell. Karrthus is also a good pick if you have one. He is a decent body (7/7 flyer with haste. Sure he costs 4BRG but he takes control of all dragons.
How about telling us what you play and we can give e some advice.
Yeah, Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund. Maybe build it with ramp, removal, and a Voltron shell as your main win-condition (like others pointed out, it is a 7/7 hasty flyer). Then the theft ability becomes secondary but works really well against the dragon player (and makes them cautious about over-committing to the board).
Let the man play what he wants. Build a clone deck and you'll usually be able to do what he does but more efficiently and it's flattering rather than you just being a jerk to someone.
The guy in question is a good friend with a great attitude (albeit somewhat stubborn at times), so he won't really mind. I just need to send a msg to demonstrate that his strategy can easily come to an abrupt end if his flyers can no longer dominate the sky.
I know I could use control/removal, this is not the advise I am looking for.
I have made some decks which can turn things around, the most interesting being thraximundar with (threaten type effects + sac outlets. I also have Zurgo Helmsmasher which really works well (nothing survives for long), and I just created another deck to punch face with Xenagos, God of Revels, the latter still in works but showing potential.
I like the suggestions about whiptongue hydra and sandwurm convergence, although the latter costs an arm and a leg, might come into play too late to be of real use.
Blue, White, and Black are dragons greatest enemies. Cheap counters, cheap removal, and board wipes. Dragons are usually doing one thing a turn so it’s important to stop the things that let them do more than that. So pay attention to when they go for Temur Ascemdancy, Selvala’s Stampede, Lurking Predators and the like. Taxing their mana can also be very effective. Many dragon decks pack a ton of cost reduction so forcing those costs back up to normal can really slow them down.
Also have you thought that maybe building a deck specifically to screw over the thing he seems to enjoy the most is kind of petty and that maybe the best route is talking to him about this?
Then, when you're ready to play a real deck and not be that douchebag that deliberately tries to hard counter their friend in a non-sanctioned format with no money on the line, bring out your regular, normal deck, tip back a beer (if you're old enough to drink), and stop worrying and just love the bombs.
I like the suggestions about whiptongue hydra and sandwurm convergence, although the latter costs an arm and a leg, might come into play too late to be of real use.
Play an heavy ramp deck with zacama, primal calamity as the general. Zacama itself has reach and can kill almost any dragon
Show him who are the superior reptiles: dinosaurs (and chamaleon-headed hydras)
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
But you know, if you make a deck that's only anti-dragons/fliers, there's a good chance it's gonna make some feel-bads. It's like when ages ago, when i was first starting to play magic, i built a deck with 4 hydroblast, 4 blue elemental blast 'cuz my mate had a goblins deck. Sure i creamed him, but the victory ended up feeling a bit sour 'cuz i was basically using just hosers.
Well, you have been given a lot of options. Instead of running an anti dragon deck, why not consider legendary tribal and then run a solitary rashida scalebane as a tutor target?
For example, if you run arvad the cursed as your general, then you get access to rashida scalebane, as well as all of those black tutors to go find it, and thalia's lancers, etc. but also various wrath effects (take your pick...black and white have lots of options). In this way, you still get a devastating counter card (not deck) to your friend's strategy, but get to have a deck that functions well for other situations, too.
Also, if you run legendary tribal, you get to run obnoxious cards like urza's ruinous blast, etc. that are absolutely devastating to most flying lizards!
Cards that aren't specifically anti-dragon but anti-flier could be an idea. I brewed a wurm tribal deck a while ago which had several of these purely because my EDH pod has decks which a flier focus (angel tribal, animar deck with quite a few fliers) and with it being strictly wurm not many have reach, there's always flying bombs around.
I preffered a couple of enchantments, so there's options like...
Hi all,
My friend plays 3 EDH decks based around Dragons. I would like to create a new deck in order to deal with those pesky flying critters... I would like a few suggestions about choosing the best commander to fit this role. I am thinking about using green since that color has a lot of ways to neuter flyers, such as:
Silklash Spider
Gravity Well
Stingerfling Spider
Whirlwind
hurricane
Blue is another option:
Archetype of Imagination (expensive yet quite good if it sticks)
Mystic Decree (what an ugly picture on that one!)
Walking Sponge (cute, but probably not worth a slot)
White has this:
Baneslayer Angel (can't afford it, but tempting)
These 3 cards would work, but they do nothing against other decks without Dragons:
Dragon Hunter
Dragonstalker
Rashida Scalebane
Black/red:
Crux of Fate
Artifacts:
Predator, Flagship
My initial search for my commander has not yielded anything that gave me that "Euraka" moment. So if you can suggest someone which you think might fit the requirements to better survive, scratch that, to win more consistently against Dragons, I would truly appreciate.
Thanks all
While dragons may swing for absurd sums they cost quite some mana and only show up in few numbers (except when Utvara Hellkite becomes involved), so there are different ways to deal with this.
For one, be the faster deck. If you are pro active you force your opponents to either react and therefor not advance their own game plan or deal with the consequences, with both increasing your chances of winning.
Second, pack enough answers. May it be enough instant speed spot removals or board wipes. Crux of Fate is a great example, even if you weren't facing dragons at all. Dusk||Dawn, Austere Command and others are completely one sided options, if you have decks that go well with them. Same is true for force sac effects, since by nature dragons don't go wide. In the right deck Grave Pact/Dictate of Erebos et al cripple them.
Overall pick a commander you like independent of dragons and you should be able to build a deck that can cope with them, if you put enough effort into it.
As for colors, outside of mono-U and mono-G you should be able to deal with them permanently. So don't shy away from anything or feel like you need to include something specific.
Anyhow, my deck will be built to nullify flyers in general, not necessarily Dragons. So fire away with your ideas for my general.
Also sandwurm convergence
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
Anyway, Cruz of fate is a good removal spell. Karrthus is also a good pick if you have one. He is a decent body (7/7 flyer with haste. Sure he costs 4BRG but he takes control of all dragons.
How about telling us what you play and we can give e some advice.
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I know I could use control/removal, this is not the advise I am looking for.
I have made some decks which can turn things around, the most interesting being thraximundar with (threaten type effects + sac outlets. I also have Zurgo Helmsmasher which really works well (nothing survives for long), and I just created another deck to punch face with Xenagos, God of Revels, the latter still in works but showing potential.
I like the suggestions about whiptongue hydra and sandwurm convergence, although the latter costs an arm and a leg, might come into play too late to be of real use.
Keep the ideas coming!
Also have you thought that maybe building a deck specifically to screw over the thing he seems to enjoy the most is kind of petty and that maybe the best route is talking to him about this?
My 720 Peasant Cube
Then, when you're ready to play a real deck and not be that douchebag that deliberately tries to hard counter their friend in a non-sanctioned format with no money on the line, bring out your regular, normal deck, tip back a beer (if you're old enough to drink), and stop worrying and just love the bombs.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Play an heavy ramp deck with zacama, primal calamity as the general. Zacama itself has reach and can kill almost any dragon
Show him who are the superior reptiles: dinosaurs (and chamaleon-headed hydras)
There's also that collective effort, fell the mighty, espeth, sun's champion, retribution of the meek and meekstone, ensnaring bridge, solar tide, crawlspace.
But you know, if you make a deck that's only anti-dragons/fliers, there's a good chance it's gonna make some feel-bads. It's like when ages ago, when i was first starting to play magic, i built a deck with 4 hydroblast, 4 blue elemental blast 'cuz my mate had a goblins deck. Sure i creamed him, but the victory ended up feeling a bit sour 'cuz i was basically using just hosers.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
For example, if you run arvad the cursed as your general, then you get access to rashida scalebane, as well as all of those black tutors to go find it, and thalia's lancers, etc. but also various wrath effects (take your pick...black and white have lots of options). In this way, you still get a devastating counter card (not deck) to your friend's strategy, but get to have a deck that functions well for other situations, too.
Also, if you run legendary tribal, you get to run obnoxious cards like urza's ruinous blast, etc. that are absolutely devastating to most flying lizards!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I preffered a couple of enchantments, so there's options like...
Downdraft
Gravity sphere
Gravity well
Katabatic winds
chaosphere
dense canopy
storm front
Raking canopy