MTG Salvation

Hi, I would like your comments on my Kresh deck. I am using several cards to steal opponent's creatures, then sacrifice them so they cannot return to their owner after my turn and more importantly increasing Kresh's size. Here is the list:


This is an early build. I have seen versions which rely on +1 counters but this is not the direction I am interested in. I also try to steer away from graveyard synergies (such as living death) due to graveyard hate. I am a bit weak regarding enchantment/artifact/land destroy effects, also Kresh probably needs protection since he tends to attract unwanted attention when he gets large. Finally, I believe some games could benefit from additional means to punch through defenders (despite all the creature stealing going on).

Any thoughts, comments to make it better are welcome.

There are a few things you could do to shape it up a bit:

Some of your creatures are high cost, low reward - Charnelhoard Wurm is really expensive for what it does, Baloth Null the same, as much as I love Bloodfire Colossus personally it's a really high CMC hand grenade. Golgari Rotwurm is similar but it's also just a weak sac outlet. I want a cheap sac outlet that impacts the board, 1 life lost in EDH is chump change. Even Perilous Forays ramps you and would be a better choice.

Speaking of which, Sakura-Tribe Elder and Viridian Emissary should be in here. You are running three colours, ramp is important.

Chandra's Ignition is a solid Kresh grenade you should run, he'd get enormous from it.

You should run some efficient recursion too - Victimize and Dread Return do what Kresh wants and what you want. I'd say run them both. I don't agree with the idea of Living Death - it does nothing for Kresh - but you could think about some other options too - Apprentice Necromancer and Doomed Necromancer do what you want them to, and if budget is no issue Sheoldred, Whispering One is a shoe in.

Have you thought about a token subtheme? Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder could be really good here. With a free sac outlet he'll give you exactly what you want - creatures dying for profit. Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar or Altar of Dementia can all be activated many times over, it could be a beating. Hornet Queen could be solid too.

Food for thought. It all really depends how much you want to spend, and how you want to leverage Kresh. I run him myself, but I wouldn't recommend taking exmaples from my list, it's intended to be themed, not competitive.

Thanks for your comments!

I included what I own, but some other cards should follow shortly. On my list are:



Yoy are right aboutChandra's Ignition, I will add it ASAP, my store was out last time I went. I will pull Sheoldred from another deck as I see its potential for sure. As for ramp, I already have 8 cards working towards this goal, I thought it was enough?

Finally, I just need to mention that my playgroup is casual with relatively good decks, but nothing highly competitive.

I wouldn't worry too much. Kresh is the sort of general you're going to find it hard to make super competitive.

I counted 7 ramp including Veteran explorer and Kozilek's Channeler[/c] (which you should think about replacing btw - sakura tribe elder would go perfectly here, or Yavimaya Elder). If it works for you, that's all good. I only mention it because your curve seems quite high.

The list you have here is pretty good, I can see a place for everything in that list.

One more thing that your playgroup might hate but works well in your favour - Helm of Possession - sac outlet, stealy effect, lots of fun. Birthing Pod could do some work here too,depending how your curve is set up. I wouldn't add either without some more resilient creatures though - ones you can get back with ease. Reassembling Skeleton is very good for an uncommon.

Oh, I'd also consider losing Gnawing Zombie for Carrion Feeder - lower CMC, free to activate. You'll be surprised how big he can get.

I wouldn't worry too much. Kresh is the sort of general you're going to find it hard to make super competitive.

I counted 7 ramp including Veteran explorer and Kozilek's Channeler[/c] (which you should think about replacing btw - sakura tribe elder would go perfectly here, or Yavimaya Elder). If it works for you, that's all good. I only mention it because your curve seems quite high.

The list you have here is pretty good, I can see a place for everything in that list.

One more thing that your playgroup might hate but works well in your favour - Helm of Possession - sac outlet, stealy effect, lots of fun. Birthing Pod could do some work here too,depending how your curve is set up. I wouldn't add either without some more resilient creatures though - ones you can get back with ease. Reassembling Skeleton is very good for an uncommon.

Oh, I'd also consider losing Gnawing Zombie for Carrion Feeder - lower CMC, free to activate. You'll be surprised how big he can get.

Agreed that Kresh is hard to make "Competitive" but can certainly be pretty strong in a casual setting. Your second post of new inclusions looks like a good start and Chandra's Ignition is an absolute all star in my Kresh deck.

For ideas on how to improve, you basically don't have any artifacts at the moment and this is certainly a deck that can get good use out of a Sol Ring and some ways to protect Kresh like Lightning Greaves or Darksteel Plate. The aforementioned Skullclamp and Birthing Pod are worthwhile inclusions also (especially together).

I would straight swap Relic Crush for Hull Breach, although it will only hit up to 1 of each it is far cheaper but can still hit both artifacts and enchantments. In the same vein, Perilous Predicament would probably be better swapped for a cheaper Edict affect or if you wait a few weeks Vona's Hunger from the new set.

Dictate of Erebos I think would be a great inclusion in the deck because of the amount you are sacrificing already. Its older brother Grave Pact is also really good but the BBB cost can be difficult to make in a 3 colour deck. To build on this Yahenni, Undying Partisan is a cool small creature with a good sacrifice outlet built in.

Languish I would swap for Blasphemous Act. You might miss killing small indestructible creatures but Blasphemous Act is often survivable for Kresh whilst killing most other things on the board. I honestly think the most I've ever had to pay for it is 3 and if there are a lot of token decks in your meta you will usually pay 1.

Hope this helped.

EDIT: Greater Good. If you steal a creature with power greater than 3 you draw cards, but even then with Feldon or Sheoldred in play you can bring back any discarded creatures.

Thanks for your helpful hints, although some cards that were suggested are quite pricy. I am trying to stay below 5$ and ideally around 1$-2$ for future updates. I will take sometime during the weekend to refine the deck then post the new list.

Cheers!

Quote from toctheyounger77 »

Some of your creatures are high cost, low reward - Charnelhoard Wurm is really expensive for what it does, Baloth Null the same,

Not quite true. Charnelhoard Wurm can grab any card, while Baloth Null is limited to creatures. A better comparison would be Eternal Witness, though you'd need a blink effect to make her a really efficient Charnelhoard Wurm. (And of course, Kresh is 100% in the wrong colors for blink effects.)

And yeah, OP needs ramp. I might suggest Wood Elves or Farhaven Elf before Viridian Emissary, though. (If you have original duals, shocks, or Battle duals, go with Wood Elves; if not, Farhaven Elf.) I would also suggest some mana rocks as Armageddon insurance, depending on how your meta feels about land destruction.

Just gonna put this out there: I have a Sidisi deck that often wins by sacrificing tokens or mass recursion in order to make a huge Nantuko Husk / Bloodthrone Vampire / Carrion Feeder, which seems somewhat similar to what Kresh wants to do. As such, I'd like to recommend one of my own best win conditions:

Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. Ooh baby.

He can function both as something large to grow Kresh (that can be recurred by himself), and even without a large graveyard he's a win-con in combination with Kresh that avoids combat damage and hits everyone. Heartily recommend.

Also, besides what others mentioned, I question Wight of Precinct Six, which seems like a dumb beater most of the time (although maybe for your purposes sheer size is enough) and Kozilek's Channeler, which seems like it's bad at ramping and really bad at beating down.

Quote from JDviant »

Quote from toctheyounger77 »

Some of your creatures are high cost, low reward - Charnelhoard Wurm is really expensive for what it does,

Chandra's Ignition is a solid Kresh grenade you should run, he'd get enormous from it.

I love running these two together. Charnelhoard doesn't need to do combat damage, so this gives you a repeatable board wipe every time you target it with Ignition. And if you're facing three other players, you get three triggers.

Oh my... +1 for sweet death worm tech.

I like your take on Kresh. If you want to improve the deck, I think you can upgrade some of your sacrifice outlets. You also seem to be pretty low on card draw. Here are some good options you are missing (some of these will help you draw or get card advantage too):

Disciple of Bolas
Greater Good
Momentous Fall
Attrition
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Victimize
Razaketh, the Foulblooded
Shivan Harvest
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Birthing Pod
Eldritch Evolution
Evolutionary Leap
Eldrazi Monument
Living Death
Grim Backwoods

Some cards you could run yourself that don't mind being sacrificed:
Solemn Simulacrum
Viridian Emissary
Anger

Other stuff that may synergize:
Death's Presence
Harvester of Souls
Grave Pact
Dictate of Erebos

Yes, but Viridian Emissary is usually after Wood Elves, Farhaven Elf, Sakura-Tribe Elder, and Solemn Simulacrum. Hell, most of the time, I'd run Rampant Growth first.

It's a matter of having the land right now versus waiting until you have a sac outlet.

My only reason for suggesting it is that its a death trigger so it kills two birds with one stone. Without a sac outlet it is sub par. On the other side of the coin Rampant Growth doesn't grow Kresh.

Wow, you guys have given me lots of cool ideas! I just don't have any time to tweak the deck right now, but some suggestions will definitely be applied in the new build. I understand that I need more ramp, I will improve accordingly.

I was wondering about the following combo: Grafted Exoskeleton + Chandra's Ignition. Do you think it's worth including the equipment?

Thanks again to all!

Grafted Exoskeleton is fine, actually. You can use it as a bad sac outlet, worst comes to worst.

I think you also need Brawn, Anger and Filth. Puppeteer clique is great, since it's 4 creatures to sac in one.

I also think the new Angrath, minotaur pirate wants to join your deck.

By the way, Bazaar Trader lets you keep the stolen creatures permanently.

Quote from toctheyounger77 »

My only reason for suggesting it is that its a death trigger so it kills two birds with one stone. Without a sac outlet it is sub par. On the other side of the coin Rampant Growth doesn't grow Kresh.

That's why I like Steve instead, though. Steve sacs himself.

I was just mentioning Rampant Growth (which is, of course, strictly worse than Steve) as "things I'd run before Viridian Emissary". Most of the time you want ramp ASAP.

For sure! Immediate sac outlet for ramp is precisely what Kresh wants.

Hi again,

Here is the list of cards I am probably adding at the moment:



Could you advise which cards are truly sub-par in my initial decklist? I will remove for sure these: Baloth Null, Bloodfire Colossus, Golgari Rotwurm, Kozilek's Channeler, Scorched Rusalka, Wight of Precinct Six.

Thanks

I'd think twice about adding Varolz the Scar-Striped personally. Others may disagree, but with EDH being a long haul, I'm loath to exile cards from my graveyard unless I absolutely have to. If you're wanting something that gets bigger when things die, there are tons of good options that are more efficient than Varolz - Lord of Extinction, Nighthowler, Swarm of Bloodflies, Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest just off the top of my head - all of these leave your creatures intact in the yard. Granted you don't have a lot of recursion here but it's worth having the option if you need to add it. Plus he's a nonbo with Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord, who is a far stronger add.

From the original list at top of page, my picks for weaker options are:
Perilous predicament
Consuming Vapors
Borderland Ranger
Scarland Thrinax
Skirsdag Cultist
Sylvan Ranger

The elves in this list could, and should, be easily upgraded to Farhaven Elf and Sakura-Tribe Elder. Scarland is a colour intensive Carrion Feeder, why not save yourself RG? The cultist is just a weak effect on a sac outlet, and Vapors gives your opponents far too much choice. For the same or less I'd suggest something like the aforementioned Vona's Hunger from the upcoming set, or Drown in Sorrow, Bile Blight, or something similar that will remove most of their options for sacrificing a token for minimal effect. If you want your opponent sacrificing pieces, it should be pieces that are hard to replace or cost them card advantage. Predicament I would replace with something like Ravenous Chupacabra from the new set - it looks unassuming, but removing any creature without restriction for 2BB plus a body to take into combat is strong for an uncommon. It's a strictly better Nekrataal in this deck, and you could make some good use of it.

Quote from toctheyounger77 »

I'd think twice about adding Varolz the Scar-Striped personally. Others may disagree, but with EDH being a long haul, I'm loath to exile cards from my graveyard unless I absolutely have to. If you're wanting something that gets bigger when things die, there are tons of good options that are more efficient than Varolz

I agree but the initial idea is to use him as another free sac outlet. The Scavenge ability should mostly be used to help close the game IMO. I guess some playtesting will tell if he earns a spot or not.

Hi guys,

Here is the updated decklist. I believe your helpfull comments have made it much better.


I am still debating what to replace for these cards:
Puppeteer Clique
Momentous Fall
Victimize

I am also somewhat sceptic about the sacrifice outlets. I wonder if I have enough, but moreso about having a cost to pay for some of the cards, considering that when I steal an opponent's creature, I have to pay a minimum of 3 mana for the various spells/effects. Any recommendations on this point?

Thanks a lot

Quote from Magiqmaster »

I am also somewhat sceptic about the sacrifice outlets. I wonder if I have enough, but moreso about having a cost to pay for some of the cards, considering that when I steal an opponent's creature, I have to pay a minimum of 3 mana for the various spells/effects. Any recommendations on this point?

If I read this right, you're not sure the sac outlets you have are efficient enough? Well, you definitely don't have the best ones available. Ideally what you want is:
a)very low cost, if not free, ways to sacrifice creatures.
b)high rewards for sacrificing creatures.

You kind of have the first covered, to some degree. The best sac outlets fulfill both of these conditions, and you don't have any of those included. I would look at any or all of these:
Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar, Helm of Possession, Greater Good, Altar of Dementia, Shivan Harvest, Sadistic Hyponotist, Nantuko Husk, Carrion Feeder.

The positive of all of these is that because they're free, you can sac creatures in response to anything that might happen, barring a sudden case of Split Second. They also have a high reward for the sacrifice. The altars will further your cause, and Dementia can be a win con in its own right. GG is one of the best card advantage machines out there, and Harvest/Hypnotist is card disadvantage for your opponents. The husk and feeder are temporary, but benefit you by being free, and even if they die in combat, have the possibility of making Kresh gargantuanly big.

Otherwise this is looking good.

Thanks for the quick reply, I will give some thought about your suggestions. Although not "free" to activate, both Helm of Possession and Shivan Harvest strongly appeal to me.

Also, what do you think about adding mage slayer? I see it used in some Kresh decklists.

I will test the deck tonight, I am quite curious to see how the latest changes work out.

Mage Slayer could be strong. It could end games. I'd playtest first to see how much you're willing to turn Kresh sideways. If the answer is 'not that often' then I'd leave it out.

You are right, but the equipment would also work on other creatures, best of all when used on a stolen creature. Talk about adding insult to injury!