I've had this card sitting in my collection for a long time, and every time I look at it, I think, "That's a pretty cool card. I'll keep this in mind for the future." And then I never use it, whether because I'm not in those colors or because it just has a little anti-synergy with the deck I'm building.
So, opinions? What are your thoughts on this card? What is the best way to take advantage of this mass withering ability? Who's deck does it go in?
It's fine as a second copy of Sulfuric Vortex, although clearly not as good (because it isn't a clock). I have to believe you can't play this until you're on Vortex and Rain of Gore already, and your deck is itching for a third copy of this effect.
It's fine as a second copy of Sulfuric Vortex, although clearly not as good (because it isn't a clock). I have to believe you can't play this until you're on Vortex and Rain of Gore already, and your deck is itching for a third copy of this effect.
While the first two abilities are similar in function to both Vortex and Gore (and Leyline of Punishment), the last ability is what makes Everlasting Torment unique. If you've got small sources of damage, Everlasting Torment can use that to get rid of big fatties anyway.
I've been a fan of the card for some time. It mimics how damage worked in Jyhad/Vampire and makes great sense from a flavor perspective. I'd originally included it in my THE HOBBIT: Battle of the Five Armies (Orcs)Zurgo deck, but as has happened every other time I sought to include it in a list, it was cut early on due to space constraints.
I really like the card, but I find it difficult to justify running so far (even in a theme deck). However, I can see it working in Jund alongside Melira, Sylvok Outcast.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There are no divisions: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28
They're all pretty good with Wither, but I especially Like Oros. And playing white gives you enchantment tutors and enchantment recursion to get Everlasting Torment on the board and keep it there.
After further thought, I like this deck idea alot. White token makers, because chump blocking with wither is great. Red direct damage because Lightning Bolt is already strong but Withering Bolt for R is bonkers. An all around enchantment theme with cards like Academy Rector, Vicious Shadows, and Hecatomb. Oros as a finisher
It's fine as a second copy of Sulfuric Vortex, although clearly not as good (because it isn't a clock). I have to believe you can't play this until you're on Vortex and Rain of Gore already, and your deck is itching for a third copy of this effect.
It is a cool card that doesn't do anything. I love the idea of the card but when you start to look at cards 101-110 in your EDH deck it's clear that almost any of those on the fringe cards will do a better job of pushing your agenda. NOW, if there is a combo deck that really wants -1-1 counters on stuff I suppose it can do stuff. but I don't know many Blowfly Infestation EDH decks.
More seriously though, the power in Everlasting Torment comes in from the anti-prevention and the wither, as others have said.
The no-damage prevention at first probably seems lackluster, since fog is underplayed anyways, but once you think about how many swords are floating around in these games, smashing down protections through either mass damage, or even just crushing the things they hope to chump block with is huge. A utility creature with an appropriate sword is often used in my group to chump the big beats at the table. Now it doesn't work so well.
The wither is powerful if you force your opponents to attack or if you give your fieldfirst strike. Or even if you just have a bunch of tokens around. No one wants to attack into wither just to kill off tokens. Or just smash everything with Pyrohemia or Pestilence. Now both of those can save you damage. All this, and indestructible creatures also don't seem so bad anymore.
Even if you don't expressly use the anti-lifegain, a lot of decks rely on small amounts of lifelink to re-stabilize in the attrition game. Having a few of these effects, such as Sulfuric vortex or Erebos, god of the dead can really put the squeeze on people, and despite having multiple powerful modes, Torment is less likely to be immediately blown up, because it doesn't directly threaten others.
It's fine as a second copy of Sulfuric Vortex, although clearly not as good (because it isn't a clock). I have to believe you can't play this until you're on Vortex and Rain of Gore already, and your deck is itching for a third copy of this effect.
If Blightsteel is already on the board (esp early) you may have other problems that led to that situation in the first place. Better to check your deck to learn why you're in such a predicament.
While we're on this train, can I recommend Forsaken Wastes too here? I think of it as the original in this line of cards, and it's "kill me and lose 5 life" clause is pretty relevant.
Woah, I either forgot about, or never knew of, Kulrath Knight. It looks at ANY counters, and my playgroup loves mass +1/+1 counter effects.
I really like the idea of a Mogis deck with all of these - Everlasting Torment, Sulfuric Vortex, Forsaken Wastes, Rain of Gore, necroskitter, midnight banshee, hell even bloodfly infestation, and a bunch of red/black token makers and damage spells. Yes!
Lol this is the deck Contagion Engine was made for. Total bomb. This deck continues to sound amusing but I've already got a Rakdos, Lord of Riots fatty deck and Zurgo Tokens deck that takes up most of my R/B resources and so many other ideas floating around waiting to be built.
How exactly does this card work with Everlasting Torment? I've never seen a situation in Magic where there are two mutually exclusive statements imposing an effect on the game before.
Those aren't exclusive statements, it can all apply at once.
Players can't gain life. Damage can't be prevented. You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life. All damage is dealt as though its source had Wither (only affects damage dealt to creatures), and damage is dealt to you as though its source had infect (only affects damage dealt to you).
None of that interferes with anything, it all works together.
How exactly does this card work with Everlasting Torment? I've never seen a situation in Magic where there are two mutually exclusive statements imposing an effect on the game before.
Those aren't exclusive statements, it can all apply at once.
Players can't gain life. Damage can't be prevented. You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life. All damage is dealt as though its source had Wither (only affects damage dealt to creatures), and damage is dealt to you as though its source had infect (only affects damage dealt to you).
None of that interferes with anything, it all works together.
There seems to be interference. If damage is dealt to you as if its source had infect, but all damage is dealt as if its source had wither, then what does the source of the damage dealt to you have? Wither or infect?
Those aren't exclusive statements, it can all apply at once.
Players can't gain life. Damage can't be prevented. You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life. All damage is dealt as though its source had Wither (only affects damage dealt to creatures), and damage is dealt to you as though its source had infect (only affects damage dealt to you).
None of that interferes with anything, it all works together.
There seems to be interference. If damage is dealt to you as if its source had infect, but all damage is dealt as if its source had wither, then what does the source of the damage dealt to you have? Wither or infect?
Wither doesn't affect damage to players; it just makes creature damage be dealt as -1/-1 counters. You would be infected, not withered.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I've had this card sitting in my collection for a long time, and every time I look at it, I think, "That's a pretty cool card. I'll keep this in mind for the future." And then I never use it, whether because I'm not in those colors or because it just has a little anti-synergy with the deck I'm building.
So, opinions? What are your thoughts on this card? What is the best way to take advantage of this mass withering ability? Who's deck does it go in?
BGGRock
Modern
BRGJund
BBGRock
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I really like the card, but I find it difficult to justify running so far (even in a theme deck). However, I can see it working in Jund alongside Melira, Sylvok Outcast.
Kaervek the Merciless
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch
Oros, the Avenger
They're all pretty good with Wither, but I especially Like Oros. And playing white gives you enchantment tutors and enchantment recursion to get Everlasting Torment on the board and keep it there.
After further thought, I like this deck idea alot. White token makers, because chump blocking with wither is great. Red direct damage because Lightning Bolt is already strong but Withering Bolt for R is bonkers. An all around enchantment theme with cards like Academy Rector, Vicious Shadows, and Hecatomb. Oros as a finisher
Everlasting Torment and a 1/1 can prevent Blightsteel Colossus from killing you in one shot. Can't really say that about the other two.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Better be a 1/1 first striker.
More seriously though, the power in Everlasting Torment comes in from the anti-prevention and the wither, as others have said.
The no-damage prevention at first probably seems lackluster, since fog is underplayed anyways, but once you think about how many swords are floating around in these games, smashing down protections through either mass damage, or even just crushing the things they hope to chump block with is huge. A utility creature with an appropriate sword is often used in my group to chump the big beats at the table. Now it doesn't work so well.
The wither is powerful if you force your opponents to attack or if you give your field first strike. Or even if you just have a bunch of tokens around. No one wants to attack into wither just to kill off tokens. Or just smash everything with Pyrohemia or Pestilence. Now both of those can save you damage. All this, and indestructible creatures also don't seem so bad anymore.
Even if you don't expressly use the anti-lifegain, a lot of decks rely on small amounts of lifelink to re-stabilize in the attrition game. Having a few of these effects, such as Sulfuric vortex or Erebos, god of the dead can really put the squeeze on people, and despite having multiple powerful modes, Torment is less likely to be immediately blown up, because it doesn't directly threaten others.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Wort, boggart auntie seems the most natural home for it to me, in an attrition build rather than some kind of goblin aggro.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
If Blightsteel is already on the board (esp early) you may have other problems that led to that situation in the first place. Better to check your deck to learn why you're in such a predicament.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Woah, I either forgot about, or never knew of, Kulrath Knight. It looks at ANY counters, and my playgroup loves mass +1/+1 counter effects.
I really like the idea of a Mogis deck with all of these - Everlasting Torment, Sulfuric Vortex, Forsaken Wastes, Rain of Gore, necroskitter, midnight banshee, hell even bloodfly infestation, and a bunch of red/black token makers and damage spells. Yes!
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Players can't gain life. Damage can't be prevented. You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life. All damage is dealt as though its source had Wither (only affects damage dealt to creatures), and damage is dealt to you as though its source had infect (only affects damage dealt to you).
None of that interferes with anything, it all works together.
Incanur mentioned Melira, Sylvok Outcast too. Combined with Phyrexian Unlife, you could go to 0 life and not lose, since you can't get poison counters.
Wither doesn't affect damage to players; it just makes creature damage be dealt as -1/-1 counters. You would be infected, not withered.