I would like to get suggestions and critique on the deck.
I am not sure I should by making creatures and sorcery at 50%/50% distribution, but except for this I think it is more or less balanced on card draw and tap/bounce to slow down an opponent until I land Thing in the ice/Awoken Horror or Frost Titan. Also, bombing some Psionic Blast might help.
A Thing in the Ice deck wants as many spells as possible. Instead of 50/50 spells-to-creatures, you probably want to be 70/30 spells. It'll make it easier to flip Thing and Homunculus, and you'll trigger Nibilis more often.
Because you need so many instants and sorceries, you can't afford to run any enchantments and artifacts. Stuff like Chalice of Life and Legacy's Allure should be cut for instants or sorceries that serve a similar role. There are instants and sorceries like Dominate that gain control of creatures. Or cheaper ones like Ray of Command that can fling opponent's creatures into each other.
I'd also cut Oculus. It's just a chump blocker. It doesn't do anything. And it makes your deck have too many creatures. Just play Ponder instead.
I'd cut Sleep. It's much better on offense than on defense. On defense, it just stops one of their attacks, a Fog for 4 mana at sorcery speed. On offense, it taps out their blockers for TWO of your attacks. That's where it shines. It doesn't do much in your deck.
You might like Snakeform better than Turn to Frog. For one more mana, you get to draw a card too.
As for Jace, it all comes down to budget. Jace, Unraveler of Secrets is a budget alternative to Jace, the Mindsculptor. If you already own 3 Jace TMS, then run that one. He is clearly better. Just compare the abilities! But if you don't want to blow your load, Unraveler of Secrets is easier on the wallet.
Here's an example of what your deck might look like with some card slots tweaked:
Cloudfin Raptor is much better in a deck with 26 creatures, not one with 13-15 creatures (some at 4 or 6cc). In your deck, you won't be able to evolve it much. If you want a cheap flyer, +4 Delver of Secrets.
Personally, I don't see how Early Frost would be that useful. Tapping your lands to tap their lands to prevent them from playing a spell 1 turn stalls the game a bit, which is good. The problem is that you're ALSO spending a card. They can just play the same spell next turn. And next turn you'll be behind 1 card. Seems like a good way to lose. If it cantripped, I would play it. Since it doesn't, why not just play Mana Leak? Instead of tapping two lands to stop them from playing a spell for one turn (and letting them play it next turn), why not tap two lands to stop that spell for good and trade 1 card for 1 card?
Since it doesn't, why not just play Mana Leak? Instead of tapping two lands to stop them from playing a spell for one turn (and letting them play it next turn), why not tap two lands to stop that spell for good and trade 1 card for 1 card?
You don't have to try the exact list. It was just an example. I do think a counterspell like Mana Leak will do a better job that Early Frost though. It fills a similar role (stall) but does a lot more.
Sleep is not good in a defensive controlling deck. It's meant for aggro.
Think about it. In an aggro deck, you cast Sleep before combat. Opponent's blockers are all tapped. You can attack freely with no blockers dealing him some damage. Then opponent can't untap or attack you. Then next turn you attack again with no blockers. 2 free attacks and no chance for him to counter attack! That's a lot of value! You can often win the game on that 2nd attack.
In a defensive deck, you cast Sleep on your turn, tapping the opponent out. You might hit him with a 1/1. On his turn he cannot attack. Then it's your turn. Then he can attack you the turn after. All it's doing is protecting you from one attack. It's basically Fog, but you're spending 4-mana at sorcery speed instead of 1-mana at instant speed. That's not good value.
Sleep is just a lot better in a different style of deck. If you just want to stall attacks, something like Frost Breath might do it better. Frost Breath is an instant, so it stops 2 attacks (cast just before his combat to stop this attack, then next turn's attack is stopped as well). Or, instead of tapping him out, bounce his whole board with Evacuation or Wash Out. Those cards just give you more value in the defensive role.
In my list, I left all of them out because Thing in the Ice is my 4 copies of Evacuation, and my list can flip Thing very quickly due to the cheap cantrips and higher spell count. But feel free to try out Frost Breath, Evacuation or Wash Out. They should all do more for you than Sleep.
You don't have to try the exact list. It was just an example. I do think a counterspell like Mana Leak will do a better job that Early Frost though. It fills a similar role (stall) but does a lot more.
...
In my list, I left all of them out because Thing in the Ice is my 4 copies of Evacuation, and my list can flip Thing very quickly due to the cheap cantrips and higher spell count. But feel free to try out Frost Breath, Evacuation or Wash Out. They should all do more for you than Sleep.
Thanks for a detailed explanation!
I personally think that your list is a little short on creatures, but I might be just unexperienced to judge.
So I will go on with it and after some games I will write a review on how it went.
I personally think that your list is a little short on creatures, but I might be just unexperienced to judge.
So I will go on with it and after some games I will write a review on how it went.
No problem. Good luck with it and have fun!
Something to keep in mind is that cards like Ponder and Preordain let you cycle through your deck very efficiently for little mana, so they let you run fewer threats and fewer lands while still seeing them often. It's how decks that need high instant and sorcery count "cheat" around the numbers. If you look at competitive Legacy Delver of Secrets decks and Pauper Kiln Fiend decks, these decks all run around 12-14 creatures. They can get away with it thanks to cards like Ponder. But yes, other decks without Ponders cannot afford to run so few creatures.
I would like to get suggestions and critique on the deck.
I am not sure I should by making creatures and sorcery at 50%/50% distribution, but except for this I think it is more or less balanced on card draw and tap/bounce to slow down an opponent until I land Thing in the ice/Awoken Horror or Frost Titan. Also, bombing some Psionic Blast might help.
Also, should I keep Jace or change him to the Jace, Unraveler of Secrets one?
Thanks in advance.
15 Island
4 Glimmerpost
3 Skyline Cascade
Creatures (19)
4 Oculus
4 Curious homunculus
3 Thing in the ice
3 Niblis of Frost
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Frost titan
4 Counterspell
3 Psionic Blast
2 Legacy's Allure
2 Time warp
2 Sleep
2 Dance of the Skywise
2 Turn to Frog
2 Chalice of Life
Because you need so many instants and sorceries, you can't afford to run any enchantments and artifacts. Stuff like Chalice of Life and Legacy's Allure should be cut for instants or sorceries that serve a similar role. There are instants and sorceries like Dominate that gain control of creatures. Or cheaper ones like Ray of Command that can fling opponent's creatures into each other.
I'd also cut Oculus. It's just a chump blocker. It doesn't do anything. And it makes your deck have too many creatures. Just play Ponder instead.
I'd cut Sleep. It's much better on offense than on defense. On defense, it just stops one of their attacks, a Fog for 4 mana at sorcery speed. On offense, it taps out their blockers for TWO of your attacks. That's where it shines. It doesn't do much in your deck.
You might like Snakeform better than Turn to Frog. For one more mana, you get to draw a card too.
As for Jace, it all comes down to budget. Jace, Unraveler of Secrets is a budget alternative to Jace, the Mindsculptor. If you already own 3 Jace TMS, then run that one. He is clearly better. Just compare the abilities! But if you don't want to blow your load, Unraveler of Secrets is easier on the wallet.
Here's an example of what your deck might look like with some card slots tweaked:
4 Thing in the Ice
4 Curious Homunculus
3 Niblis of Frost
2 Frost Titan
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Counterspell
3 Psionic Blast
3 Snakeform
2 Dominate
2 Time Warp
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//Lands: 22
4 Skyline Cascade
18 Island
I am also thinking on adding Cloudfin raptor and Early Frost. Do you think they will fit? Early Frost is a great saviour at some moments.
ADDED: ... or Delver of secrets...
Cloudfin Raptor is much better in a deck with 26 creatures, not one with 13-15 creatures (some at 4 or 6cc). In your deck, you won't be able to evolve it much. If you want a cheap flyer, +4 Delver of Secrets.
Personally, I don't see how Early Frost would be that useful. Tapping your lands to tap their lands to prevent them from playing a spell 1 turn stalls the game a bit, which is good. The problem is that you're ALSO spending a card. They can just play the same spell next turn. And next turn you'll be behind 1 card. Seems like a good way to lose. If it cantripped, I would play it. Since it doesn't, why not just play Mana Leak? Instead of tapping two lands to stop them from playing a spell for one turn (and letting them play it next turn), why not tap two lands to stop that spell for good and trade 1 card for 1 card?
However, why did you drop Sleep?
You don't have to try the exact list. It was just an example. I do think a counterspell like Mana Leak will do a better job that Early Frost though. It fills a similar role (stall) but does a lot more.
Sleep is not good in a defensive controlling deck. It's meant for aggro.
Think about it. In an aggro deck, you cast Sleep before combat. Opponent's blockers are all tapped. You can attack freely with no blockers dealing him some damage. Then opponent can't untap or attack you. Then next turn you attack again with no blockers. 2 free attacks and no chance for him to counter attack! That's a lot of value! You can often win the game on that 2nd attack.
In a defensive deck, you cast Sleep on your turn, tapping the opponent out. You might hit him with a 1/1. On his turn he cannot attack. Then it's your turn. Then he can attack you the turn after. All it's doing is protecting you from one attack. It's basically Fog, but you're spending 4-mana at sorcery speed instead of 1-mana at instant speed. That's not good value.
Sleep is just a lot better in a different style of deck. If you just want to stall attacks, something like Frost Breath might do it better. Frost Breath is an instant, so it stops 2 attacks (cast just before his combat to stop this attack, then next turn's attack is stopped as well). Or, instead of tapping him out, bounce his whole board with Evacuation or Wash Out. Those cards just give you more value in the defensive role.
In my list, I left all of them out because Thing in the Ice is my 4 copies of Evacuation, and my list can flip Thing very quickly due to the cheap cantrips and higher spell count. But feel free to try out Frost Breath, Evacuation or Wash Out. They should all do more for you than Sleep.
I personally think that your list is a little short on creatures, but I might be just unexperienced to judge.
So I will go on with it and after some games I will write a review on how it went.
No problem. Good luck with it and have fun!
Something to keep in mind is that cards like Ponder and Preordain let you cycle through your deck very efficiently for little mana, so they let you run fewer threats and fewer lands while still seeing them often. It's how decks that need high instant and sorcery count "cheat" around the numbers. If you look at competitive Legacy Delver of Secrets decks and Pauper Kiln Fiend decks, these decks all run around 12-14 creatures. They can get away with it thanks to cards like Ponder. But yes, other decks without Ponders cannot afford to run so few creatures.
And Spellskite or Glint for Thing protection? Maybe add at least two copies instead of Preordain?
Unraveler of Secrets has very similar abilities too, hovering near "strictly worse" territory (not quite)
+1: scry 1, draw 1 (i.e. worse than Sleight of Hand)
vs
0: Brainstorm
-2: return a creature
vs
-1: return a creature
3UU vs 2UU
Ultimate: flip Erayo
vs
Ultimate: win the game
And, just for fun, they gave TMS a 4th ability too... a +2: Scry 1 or Fateseal 1