I had this craving to build myself a black and blue control deck w/ some painful advantage....
Here's the list so far, i need some help to complete it.
That was kinda the whole point behind Jesters Mask.
I'd take HG over the mask. In terms of effect, they do exactly the same thing. The errata on the Mask is the same as the text on HG. Head Games costs 5 mana; Jester's Mask costs 6. You can play the Mask on turn 5 and tap it on turn 6 if you want to, but that still gives your opponent a whole turn to find somthing to do about it. Head Games, meanwhile, occurs immediately once you play it, and for a cheaper mana investment. Both can be countered just the same.
As far as I can tell, the only advantage to the mask is that it's colorless, so if you don't have BB you can still play it. But what's the chances that you don't have two black mana when your entire deck is U/B?
I'd take HG over the mask. In terms of effect, they do exactly the same thing. The errata on the Mask is the same as the text on HG. Head Games costs 5 mana; Jester's Mask costs 6. You can play the Mask on turn 5 and tap it on turn 6 if you want to, but that still gives your opponent a whole turn to find somthing to do about it. Head Games, meanwhile, occurs immediately once you play it, and for a cheaper mana investment. Both can be countered just the same.
As far as I can tell, the only advantage to the mask is that it's colorless, so if you don't have BB you can still play it. But what's the chances that you don't have two black mana when your entire deck is U/B?
very true. I'll swap in 2 HG's over the Mask.
Im quite curious how im going to control people's turn more. I want to be able to essentially hit spells like Sorin's ultimate. Any idea's on how i could do this? Basically what i would want to do, is control people's turn, and kill them with Quandary. Any suggestions on how to more or less, own the board?
Im quite curious how im going to control people's turn more. I want to be able to essentially hit spells like Sorin's ultimate. Any idea's on how i could do this? Basically what i would want to do, is control people's turn, and kill them with Quandary. Any suggestions on how to more or less, own the board?
Thanks!
The argument for Head Games over Jester's Mask goes way deeper than the mana issue. With Head Games, you get the surprise factor, but you can't really combine cards with it as it costs 5 mana to play. With Jester's Mask, you have to wait 1 turn, giving your opponent a chance to react, but then you can combine cards too - for example, Wheel and Deal. Your opponent draws 7, you fire off your Mask, giving your opponent a hand of useless cards. You can combine it with cards like Evacuation and Wash Out for more effectiveness. However, this all goes against the Painful Quandary plan - not sure why Wheel and Deal is in here in the first place.
Another good addition for your deck would be Oppression to combine with Painful Quandary. You can stack the abilities so they discard for Oppression before the Quandary effect.
You already run black and blue.
You already have Head Games.
I'd say you could have some Mind Funeral in there.
Mind Funeral is meant, more or less, to be for a mill deck. Which would also go great with Glimpse the Unthinkable. Essentially, i want to control the board. I want to kill people with their own cards, their own spells. or having cards in their hands.
Memory Plunder fits that theme, if you can let them discard of course. Mindleech Mass, too, if memory serves me correctly.
Wow, just wow. He deals damage, i put a card into play. Does that card come into play under MY control, or his? I see the ruling: You control the spell and, if it's an artifact, creature, or enchantment spell, you control the resulting permanent.
I would assume that you get to keep that permanent, unless he can counter the ability. If i do play with him, i will need mana acceleration...
Also, i removed Peer Pressure, as it didnt make sence in the deck. I figured it was a good play, but i read it wrong. Definitely not a good card in this deck.
(sorry, hit enter too fast, and it automatically submitted)
As it sits im over 10 cards... I know this may not be a great big deal, considering i have some counters in here, and some assistance with Megrim to keep people at bey.
Any idea's what to cut out?
Yeah, i was looking that over this morning. He's been removed.
Updated:
So ive had the chance to play the deck a while now. And it seems that yes, i mess with people alot, but its almost as if the win condition never makes it to the board. Just about every time, they take me out quicker then i can do anything about it.
Any suggestions on making the deck faster,without taking out much of the "oomph" of the deck? Short of Demonic Tutor to bring out my stuff, i'm really not sure what else i could use.
Sorin's ultimate with Head Games is just so funny.
Nemesis of Reason is quite good if you're packing Haunting Echoes, he's also easier on the mana and quite tough.
At first glance I don't think Dralnu has enough protection to be worth it.
Also I see some questionnable synergy in that you have cards that make your opponent discard, while having cards that care if he has cards in hand; i.e. Painful Quandary/Oppression VS Mindleech Mass/Head Games. My suggestion would be to get rid of all the enchantments and the discard strategy. It would open up some spots and allow you to refocus.
As for suggestions to make the deck faster? Increase draw and put some acceleration. Shadowmage Infiltrator and Dimir Signet would both be safe bets.
Something like Lightning Greaves also would raise your "oommph". The protection it offers could even make Dralnu playable.
So in short, here's how the deck would look like after modifications:
I tried to keep the basics of your deck, minus the discard. I put Rise from the Grave instead of Control Magic since it's a sorcery and fits with Dralnu and I added Glimpse the Unthinkable because it's really good for the deck.
This would probably need further tuning (the lack of cheap removal concerns me for example)... but it's just a suggestion to see where you could go.
...
If you decide to keep the discard, a good all-around answer for your deck could be Recoil.
Primary and only casual rule: "any rule that is fine for the most part of the playgroup, is a fine rule". So any further thread with: "if somebody uses/does .... in a casual game, is it ethical/ok?", read the answer above.
- Being a "Johnny/Spike" means you like self-torture. You win often in casual, so everybody hates you; you loose often in competitive, so you hate yourself.
I like the deck idea, but all the discard damage is gone, as well as what i started this deck from (painful Quandry) When i use Painful, on top of Sorin's ultimate, its usually an instant win, cast (dont discard), die.
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Here's the list so far, i need some help to complete it.
4 Painful Quandary
2 Conspiracy
2 Second Chance
Spells
4 Control Magic
2 Wheel and Deal
2 Peer Pressure
4 Sudden Spoiling
4 Counterspell
2 The Rack
2 Feldon's Cane
2 Venser's Journal
1 Jester's Mask
Creatures
2 Drainu, Lich Lord
2 Sorin Markov
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Any help appreciated, any input is great
Thanks!
Edit: conspiracy will only stay in the deck if creatures come into it. Otherwise, its gone.
Thanks to Mcheif111 for the Sig banner!
That was kinda the whole point behind Jesters Mask.
Thanks to Mcheif111 for the Sig banner!
I'd take HG over the mask. In terms of effect, they do exactly the same thing. The errata on the Mask is the same as the text on HG. Head Games costs 5 mana; Jester's Mask costs 6. You can play the Mask on turn 5 and tap it on turn 6 if you want to, but that still gives your opponent a whole turn to find somthing to do about it. Head Games, meanwhile, occurs immediately once you play it, and for a cheaper mana investment. Both can be countered just the same.
As far as I can tell, the only advantage to the mask is that it's colorless, so if you don't have BB you can still play it. But what's the chances that you don't have two black mana when your entire deck is U/B?
Legacy: GWR Enchantress <--That's my banner! (lol tinypic removed it)
Casual: WB [[Primer]]Clerics Tribal; BU Affinity
EDH: ...U [[Primer]]Arcum Dagsson; BG Legal Stax; B Illegal Stax
Proxy: .WX TriniStax
Other stuff: [[Official]]Shuffling, Truth + Maths
very true. I'll swap in 2 HG's over the Mask.
Im quite curious how im going to control people's turn more. I want to be able to essentially hit spells like Sorin's ultimate. Any idea's on how i could do this? Basically what i would want to do, is control people's turn, and kill them with Quandary. Any suggestions on how to more or less, own the board?
Thanks!
Thanks to Mcheif111 for the Sig banner!
The argument for Head Games over Jester's Mask goes way deeper than the mana issue. With Head Games, you get the surprise factor, but you can't really combine cards with it as it costs 5 mana to play. With Jester's Mask, you have to wait 1 turn, giving your opponent a chance to react, but then you can combine cards too - for example, Wheel and Deal. Your opponent draws 7, you fire off your Mask, giving your opponent a hand of useless cards. You can combine it with cards like Evacuation and Wash Out for more effectiveness. However, this all goes against the Painful Quandary plan - not sure why Wheel and Deal is in here in the first place.
Another good addition for your deck would be Oppression to combine with Painful Quandary. You can stack the abilities so they discard for Oppression before the Quandary effect.
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
Mind Funeral is meant, more or less, to be for a mill deck. Which would also go great with Glimpse the Unthinkable. Essentially, i want to control the board. I want to kill people with their own cards, their own spells. or having cards in their hands.
Thanks to Mcheif111 for the Sig banner!
Wow, just wow. He deals damage, i put a card into play. Does that card come into play under MY control, or his? I see the ruling:
You control the spell and, if it's an artifact, creature, or enchantment spell, you control the resulting permanent.
I would assume that you get to keep that permanent, unless he can counter the ability. If i do play with him, i will need mana acceleration...
Also, i removed Peer Pressure, as it didnt make sence in the deck. I figured it was a good play, but i read it wrong. Definitely not a good card in this deck.
(sorry, hit enter too fast, and it automatically submitted)
So, here's the deck as it stands
4 Drowned Catacombs
1 Underground River
11 Island
11 Swamp
Enchantments
4 Painful Quandary
2 Oppression
4 Megrim
3 Control Magic
1 Sudden Spoiling
3 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
2 Concentrate
2 Memory Plunder
2 Evacuation
2 Wash Out
4 Head Games
2 Haunting Echoes
1 The Rack
Creatures
2 Drainu, Lich Lord
3 Mindleech Mass
Plainswalkers
1 Sorin Markov
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
As it sits im over 10 cards... I know this may not be a great big deal, considering i have some counters in here, and some assistance with Megrim to keep people at bey.
Any idea's what to cut out?
Thanks!
Thanks to Mcheif111 for the Sig banner!
Yeah, i was looking that over this morning. He's been removed.
Updated:
So ive had the chance to play the deck a while now. And it seems that yes, i mess with people alot, but its almost as if the win condition never makes it to the board. Just about every time, they take me out quicker then i can do anything about it.
Any suggestions on making the deck faster,without taking out much of the "oomph" of the deck? Short of Demonic Tutor to bring out my stuff, i'm really not sure what else i could use.
Thanks!
Thanks to Mcheif111 for the Sig banner!
Nemesis of Reason is quite good if you're packing Haunting Echoes, he's also easier on the mana and quite tough.
At first glance I don't think Dralnu has enough protection to be worth it.
Also I see some questionnable synergy in that you have cards that make your opponent discard, while having cards that care if he has cards in hand; i.e. Painful Quandary/Oppression VS Mindleech Mass/Head Games. My suggestion would be to get rid of all the enchantments and the discard strategy. It would open up some spots and allow you to refocus.
As for suggestions to make the deck faster? Increase draw and put some acceleration. Shadowmage Infiltrator and Dimir Signet would both be safe bets.
Something like Lightning Greaves also would raise your "oommph". The protection it offers could even make Dralnu playable.
So in short, here's how the deck would look like after modifications:
4 Shadowmage infiltrator
4 Nemesis of Reason
3 Dralnu, Lich Lord
2 Mindleech Mass
Spells (25):
4 Counterspell
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Head Games
3 Rise From the Grave
2 Glimpse the unthinkable
1 Haunting Echoes
2 Memory Plunder
2 Sorin Markov
3 Lightning Greaves
Lands(22):
4 Drowned Catacomb
9 Island
9 Swamp
I tried to keep the basics of your deck, minus the discard. I put Rise from the Grave instead of Control Magic since it's a sorcery and fits with Dralnu and I added Glimpse the Unthinkable because it's really good for the deck.
This would probably need further tuning (the lack of cheap removal concerns me for example)... but it's just a suggestion to see where you could go.
...
If you decide to keep the discard, a good all-around answer for your deck could be Recoil.
Thanks to Mcheif111 for the Sig banner!