This thread is for the discussion of my latest article, What Next for Legacy? Those Nasty Spikes. We would be grateful if you would let us know what you think, but please keep your comments on topic.
I guess Andy Warhol was right and everyone gets their fifteen minutes of fame at some point in their life. I only wish my fame wasn’t in connection with just about the least popular format of a freaking fantasy-themed collectible card game.
I have to hand it to the man, he knows how to make me instantly dislike him.
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I wonder what this "cool interaction" is.
(task force is not a cleric)
That was not a good example, but it's called Life.dec, it works by infinitely (arbitrarily large) pumping a Task Force or Daru Spiritualist (that would have been the right example) with an en-Kor creature like Nomads en-Kor or Shaman en-Kor by targeting them for 0 mana, then sacrificing the large-toughness creature to a Starlit Sanctum or Worthy Cause or some other old card in Legacy to gain arbitrarely large amounts of life. After that you can win at leisure with Test of Endurance or About Face & Fling or Unspeakable Symbol (usually fetched with Academy Rector by sacrificing him to the Sanctum.)
It's basically the best deck ever vs creatures (I think I'm 20-1 vs Goblins, that one loss was due to a turn 2 Sulfuric Vortex with them on the play), incredibly consistent because it has 8+ of each piece, but it relies heavily on Aether Vial to win vs Control (bad matchup) and basically loses to Combo.
Tarmogoyf was going to be my local metagame bomb! Oh well, I think people would realize how good it is very soon anyway. I think Predict has such a good interaction with syrum vision/brainstorm that if u drop predict, you should replace syrum visions with another draw spell as well. anyway,
Good article!
I may be a cheap skate but it is "the steep cost of building a competitive" T2 deck that keeps me playing Legacy. I got most of the staples straight from Boosters, back in the day, so now I just pick up odd cards to improve my existing decks.
Yeah thats the nice thing about legacy. If you don't trade off your old deck it becomes increasingly easier to build new decks. You only need to pick up a few random cards. To quote Evin Erwin, you will never use any card more than that playset of Force of Will.
I really enjoyed this article, and the gearhart one also. I like hearing some sort of insight on some of the better deck builders/players. It would be great if we could get Kai and Finkel to do an interview on this site.
Very good article...let's keep punishing those blue mages for crimes of unspeakable evil, shall we?
On a serious note, I'd probably continue with Werebear, rather than Tarmogoyf. There seeme to be few situations where it would actually be better. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. I don't play Threshold- I generally beat it.:D (Echoes ftw.)
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Very good article...let's keep punishing those blue mages for crimes of unspeakable evil, shall we?
On a serious note, I'd probably continue with Werebear, rather than Tarmogoyf. There seeme to be few situations where it would actually be better. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. I don't play Threshold- I generally beat it.:D (Echoes ftw.)
When you cast echoes, Goyf is a 1/2. If you played any spells this game, he's automatically bigger than Werebear would have been. Seems ok.
I'll give you that much. He'll have one point higher toughness, assuming I don't have any other card types in my yard (instants and artifacts are probably your best bet, here).
Still, there are times where that green mana Werebear taps for on occasion can be really useful.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Still, there are times where that green mana Werebear taps for on occasion can be really useful.
No doubt. The argument is whether the loss of the Bear's tap ability is compensated by the advatanges of Tarmogoyf. I hate to link to other sites, but I'm too lazy to cut and paste all of the relevant content.
See my arguments under posts #80, #82 and #89 here:
Basically, he's amazingly resilient GY hate, is never an x/1 (vs. Fanatic, etc.) and is usually a 2/3 - 3/4 on turn 2 or 3. Testing vs B/W Confidant this past weekend, I won the game with double 5/6 goyfs and still handn't reached threshold. (I won with five cards in my yard).
I have to hand it to the man, he knows how to make me instantly dislike him.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
That was not a good example, but it's called Life.dec, it works by infinitely (arbitrarily large) pumping a Task Force or Daru Spiritualist (that would have been the right example) with an en-Kor creature like Nomads en-Kor or Shaman en-Kor by targeting them for 0 mana, then sacrificing the large-toughness creature to a Starlit Sanctum or Worthy Cause or some other old card in Legacy to gain arbitrarely large amounts of life. After that you can win at leisure with Test of Endurance or About Face & Fling or Unspeakable Symbol (usually fetched with Academy Rector by sacrificing him to the Sanctum.)
It's basically the best deck ever vs creatures (I think I'm 20-1 vs Goblins, that one loss was due to a turn 2 Sulfuric Vortex with them on the play), incredibly consistent because it has 8+ of each piece, but it relies heavily on Aether Vial to win vs Control (bad matchup) and basically loses to Combo.
Well, let's be honest with ourselves, eh?
Yikes. Pretend I said Worthy Cause.
Good article!
Yeah thats the nice thing about legacy. If you don't trade off your old deck it becomes increasingly easier to build new decks. You only need to pick up a few random cards. To quote Evin Erwin, you will never use any card more than that playset of Force of Will.
I really enjoyed this article, and the gearhart one also. I like hearing some sort of insight on some of the better deck builders/players. It would be great if we could get Kai and Finkel to do an interview on this site.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
On a serious note, I'd probably continue with Werebear, rather than Tarmogoyf. There seeme to be few situations where it would actually be better.
Then again, maybe I'm wrong. I don't play Threshold- I generally beat it.:D (Echoes ftw.)
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
Still, there are times where that green mana Werebear taps for on occasion can be really useful.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
No doubt. The argument is whether the loss of the Bear's tap ability is compensated by the advatanges of Tarmogoyf. I hate to link to other sites, but I'm too lazy to cut and paste all of the relevant content.
See my arguments under posts #80, #82 and #89 here:
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=32225.80
Basically, he's amazingly resilient GY hate, is never an x/1 (vs. Fanatic, etc.) and is usually a 2/3 - 3/4 on turn 2 or 3. Testing vs B/W Confidant this past weekend, I won the game with double 5/6 goyfs and still handn't reached threshold. (I won with five cards in my yard).
As for the 'next thing for legacy', it's goblins. again.
-AJ
Hulk Flash, actually. For at least a month, anyway.
I very much enjoyed this article, as bardo has long been one of my favorite posters @ The Source.
It needed more Gearheart, though.