And after long threads about how the gutter was going to change to fit in with our new cursed over lords, we got information from Kpaca that they were closing us down anyway, even though we'd agreed to change to fit in with the new owners.
:/ Your information is somewhat faulty. The mod lounge discussion about the Gutter is still ongoing, even now. So saying we had come to a decision is very premature.
And since this is a new thread, I'd like to remind everyone that the bannings and suspensions surrounding this are all currently under review by the staff.
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So because *you* don't feel oppressed, someone else can't. get over yourself dude.
On a scale of Oppression ranging from "My ice cream shop refuses to carry my favorite flavor" to "China won't allow me freedom of religion" -- The "oppression" of the gutter is the ice cream shop.
The fact that some people overdramatise the situation and call it "oppression" doesn't make it oppression.
1) they were not wrong to not keep you in the loop. It is a private business decision being made by the owners of the site. You have no right to that privileged information, and indeed no reason to expect that it would be given to you. On what reasonable basis can you claim to have a right to private business information?
2) The banning were not wrong. Therefore, keeping the bannings in place would not be a further wrong.
Thats a load of crap. The actions they performed would be justification for banning any member, even one completely unrelated to the gutter.
I'm sorry, because gutter is not a valid argument.
:/ Your information is somewhat faulty. The mod lounge discussion about the Gutter is still ongoing, even now. So saying we had come to a decision is very premature.
And since this is a new thread, I'd like to remind everyone that the bannings and suspensions surrounding this are all currently under review by the staff.
I know my opinion isn't worth a huge amount to a lot of the people that live in Community Issues, but based on all of the discourse and discussion with the people at Curse, I am actually pretty excited about this. Obviously we can't say too much about the details, but all of my "oh dear god they are going to ruin X" fears have been pushed aside. It could be a trainwreck, it could be nothing, but after talking about this for what seems like years, I am very much looking forward to the changes.
Jobie, Shazbot, ein, kijin, and anyone else in that conversation (cryptic I know :-/), all I can say is that I am very sorry. When I was talking with you about how to solve site issues and move forward this wasn't really something I had the information to factor into that. The ______ is dead, Long live the _______
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The explosion that... destroyed our city, razed our home, and turned our fields into wasteland was nothing compared to what was now happening to those who survived.
I'm sorry, because gutter is not a valid argument.
I never said "because gutter" -- in fact I believe I've made it explicitly clear that the banning would have been justified regardless of who was posting...
I don't have an opinion on the bannings themselves, but when I saw kpaca was banned, the first thing that went through my mind was "Yeah, some other people are about to get stupid and get banned along with him".
Sure enough...
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Retrodrome!
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
I never said "because gutter" -- in fact I believe I've made it explicitly clear that the banning would have been justified regardless of who was posting...
But it wasn't. The information they posted was, for the most part, publicly available knowledge if you looked around for it. I did so myself and was able to find most of that with a simple Google search. Ordering people to not post publicly available information, especially on a site like MTGS and even moreso on the Rumor Mill board, is an abuse of moderator privilege.
When someone feels threatened by the potential removal of what they consider their safe haven, they are completely at liberty to make a scene about it. I would expect no less, especially from members of this site. That you think that is wrong speaks volumes about you.
Kijin and kpaca were both on probation; Kaitscrait/Madding was not as far as I remember. Disobeying mod orders is an auto-suspension; suspensions under probation are auto-bans.
Then I cannot support the unbanning of Kijin and kpaca. They clearly knew that disobeying a mod's request would lead to their bannings. There were other ways they could have discussed their grievances. Unfortunately for them, they chose the wrong way.
Kaitscrait's banning, on the other hand, is somewhat murky. Since he wasn't on probation, he should be given a little more leniency. But he did post information that could have harmed the site and did so knowing full well that two of his friends just got banned for doing the exact same thing. That's not exactly the smartest or most mature way to go about things.
Neither of them did, and none of their gimmicks were used.
Then exactly how was Clock King's gimmick used? The wording by ExpiredRascals in the Currently/Suspended Banned list leads me to believe that he gave his password to banned member so that he/she could evade a ban.
Hmm, so I'm not sure if anyone who would know can speak to this, but was the impending potential sale of MTGS the hidden, actual reason for the most recent movement to close the gutter?
I'm just curious because, if that was the real reason, then the reasons given at the time (no matter what validity they may have had) were somewhat disingenuous.
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Hmm, so I'm not sure if anyone who would know can speak to this, but was the impending potential sale of MTGS the hidden, actual reason for the most recent movement to close the gutter?
I'm just curious because, if that was the real reason, then the reasons given at the time (no matter what validity they may have had) were somewhat disingenuous.
No, absolutely not. The first time the admins heard about this was in early July. I think I talked with Hannes about it on the first of July, but I can't confirm it right now.
Hmm, so I'm not sure if anyone who would know can speak to this, but was the impending potential sale of MTGS the hidden, actual reason for the most recent movement to close the gutter?
I'm just curious because, if that was the real reason, then the reasons given at the time (no matter what validity they may have had) were somewhat disingenuous.
I think this had a great deal to do with kpaca going off
Then exactly how was Clock King's gimmick used? The wording by ExpiredRascals in the Currently/Suspended Banned list leads me to believe that he gave his password to banned member so that he/she could evade a ban.
I believe Clock King may have lent his Gimmick to N_S, but I'm not 100%.
And aiding a member in ban suspension is considered an auto-suspension offense, right? Then why was Clock King banned? Shouldn't he have only been suspended?
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
CK was never on probation, however he was actively seeking a ban from the site not too long ago.
I believe the lending of the gimmick was a part of, or caused by that.
Once again, the disgraceful conduct of many of those who are against this decision makes it hard to feel any sympathy whatsoever for them. Talking about "homes", "devaluation of culture", and the Trail of Tears in this context is actually so ignorant as to be offensive.
The oppression suffered by those under the man who (N_S) saw fit to use to represent him on this site is real oppression. Certain people losing their posting privileges for violating the well-publicized rules of the site that they chose, of their own free will, to visit is not. Get some perspective.
I believe CK was on probation, meaning auto-suspension offenses would therefore result in bans.
He was not on probation as far as I know. Aiding with evasion is an auto-suspension offense:
Aiding & Abetting Evasion of Limited Site Privileges
Do not post content for or from banned/suspended members, and do not assist banned/suspended members in either communicating with or partaking in the forums. Violations will be penalized as determined appropriate by the staff.
But, due to the nature of this aiding the people in charge of this felt that it was severe enough to warrant a ban.
Serious or repeated breaches of the MTGS Forum Rules will result in the banning of your account. If your account is banned from the site, you are not welcome to return unless you successfully appeal your banning, and any gimmick accounts you possess or subsequent accounts that you register will also be tracked and banned. The staff of MTGSalvation holds the right to ban any member for a reasonable purpose at any time, regardless of infractions accumulated.
1. Once it was on the SCG message board it became public. By definition any info that could be found by anybody looking is considered public.
2. Nobody knew there was false info unless someone addresses it. In this same vein there is no complete window until it is addressed. You cannot expect people to know unknown unknowns.
3. These actions and censorship probably made the situation worse then if you did nothing at all. Now I don't know if that is true, but in general the Streisand Effect has been shown to be fairly accurate.
4. Yes the rumors might harm the site, but that doesn't mean you should censor them. You should do damage control and explain the situation. Instead you went into censorship mode, which made things worse and led to bannings.
5. As I said before I do not dispute that a violation of a mod order was performed, but that mod order should have never been given. It was censorship and to a certain extent I could easily see how it could've enticed defiance because it was unjust.
Overall the handling of this has been a debacle and a handled extremely poorly and because of that the bannings should be overturned.
I know that the discussion is still ongoing but I want to quote my post from the last thread to make sure it does not get lost in the transition.
:/ Your information is somewhat faulty. The mod lounge discussion about the Gutter is still ongoing, even now. So saying we had come to a decision is very premature.
And since this is a new thread, I'd like to remind everyone that the bannings and suspensions surrounding this are all currently under review by the staff.
.
On a scale of Oppression ranging from "My ice cream shop refuses to carry my favorite flavor" to "China won't allow me freedom of religion" -- The "oppression" of the gutter is the ice cream shop.
The fact that some people overdramatise the situation and call it "oppression" doesn't make it oppression.
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I'm sorry, because gutter is not a valid argument.
This.
scumbag
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I am confused... this contradicts this:
The explosion that... destroyed our city, razed our home, and turned our fields into wasteland was nothing compared to what was now happening to those who survived.
2. Ban members for leaking stuff.
My YouTube Channel
I was just quoting what you guys always say. It wasn't really meant to be anything more than that.
People are still trying to figure out what to do...
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I never said "because gutter" -- in fact I believe I've made it explicitly clear that the banning would have been justified regardless of who was posting...
Sure enough...
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
But it wasn't. The information they posted was, for the most part, publicly available knowledge if you looked around for it. I did so myself and was able to find most of that with a simple Google search. Ordering people to not post publicly available information, especially on a site like MTGS and even moreso on the Rumor Mill board, is an abuse of moderator privilege.
When someone feels threatened by the potential removal of what they consider their safe haven, they are completely at liberty to make a scene about it. I would expect no less, especially from members of this site. That you think that is wrong speaks volumes about you.
...in a world where thousands of homes are erected each day and you could move to any one of them at any time for free.
This response is woefully ignorent and shortsighted. Devaluation of culture, history, trail of tears ftw.
"oh you've lived in this home your whole life? well we've got an empty house just outside the city. go there and never return."
Then I cannot support the unbanning of Kijin and kpaca. They clearly knew that disobeying a mod's request would lead to their bannings. There were other ways they could have discussed their grievances. Unfortunately for them, they chose the wrong way.
Kaitscrait's banning, on the other hand, is somewhat murky. Since he wasn't on probation, he should be given a little more leniency. But he did post information that could have harmed the site and did so knowing full well that two of his friends just got banned for doing the exact same thing. That's not exactly the smartest or most mature way to go about things.
Then exactly how was Clock King's gimmick used? The wording by ExpiredRascals in the Currently/Suspended Banned list leads me to believe that he gave his password to banned member so that he/she could evade a ban.
I'm just curious because, if that was the real reason, then the reasons given at the time (no matter what validity they may have had) were somewhat disingenuous.
No, absolutely not. The first time the admins heard about this was in early July. I think I talked with Hannes about it on the first of July, but I can't confirm it right now.
I think this had a great deal to do with kpaca going off
I believe Clock King may have lent his Gimmick to N_S, but I'm not 100%.
This is what happened, yes.
And aiding a member in ban suspension is considered an auto-suspension offense, right? Then why was Clock King banned? Shouldn't he have only been suspended?
I believe the lending of the gimmick was a part of, or caused by that.
The oppression suffered by those under the man who (N_S) saw fit to use to represent him on this site is real oppression. Certain people losing their posting privileges for violating the well-publicized rules of the site that they chose, of their own free will, to visit is not. Get some perspective.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
He was not on probation as far as I know. Aiding with evasion is an auto-suspension offense:
But, due to the nature of this aiding the people in charge of this felt that it was severe enough to warrant a ban.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I know that the discussion is still ongoing but I want to quote my post from the last thread to make sure it does not get lost in the transition.