We won't close this thread yet; this is still very much an ongoing issue, and we would like to let members of the community keep commenting on a decision that affects parts of said community. If users have thoughts/opinions they want to share, they are welcome to do so. If individual posts are problematic, I welcome you to report them.
Claims that this is comparable to the Holocaust make me want to vomit with rage. No one is telling the Gutter that they need to leave. Merely that they need to comport themselves like every other member of the site.
Maybe not the Holocaust, but you're still arguing for assimilation. It's the same mentality that at one point in history (even in recent history) said Native Americans shouldn't be able to practice their own culture the way they want to, because they need to comport themselves like every other member of society. It's just a thinly-veiled way to destroy a community that has its own culture because that culture isn't accepted by those in power.
I'm not going to comment on the other stuff you say, but this particular argument of yours is especially ignorant, and I think it's important readers see why an assimilationist attitude is the wrong one to have, because assimilation sounds reasonable on the surface and I've seen other members take an "I don't see why it's so bad" view of the issue.
Glad to see it's finally gone. If you kids want to have your own little clique forum - go make it. Many sites offer that. I joined the Gutter after it's first big blow over and in doing so I expected conversation on subjects deemed taboo for the normal forums. Instead, I found it was an elitist cesspool filled by posts from a few select people talking amongst themselves reprimanding/verbally abusing any person who chimed in like they were some type of nerdy gods. Rather humorous when you think about it, considering the venue in which they occupied.
Pointless sub-forum is pointless. Good riddance, and good on the staff for finally getting it done.
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Winner of the MTGSalvation Standard Championships III & IV.
Glad to see it's finally gone. If you kids want to have your own little clique forum - go make it. Many sites offer that. I joined the Gutter after it's first big blow over and in doing so I expected conversation on subjects deemed taboo for the normal forums. Instead, I found it was an elitist cesspool filled by posts from a few select people talking amongst themselves reprimanding/verbally abusing any person who chimed in like they were some type of nerdy gods. Rather humorous when you think about it, considering the venue in which they occupied.
Pointless sub-forum is pointless. Good riddance, and good on the staff for finally getting it done.
Well, I tend to disagree, since the thread has been dormant for about one week, and it seems that only people wishing to further their own personal agendas seem interested in necroing the thread.
I don't think anything productive can come anymore from this venue of discussion, and as a spokeperson for the subforum "The Gutter" I would like to request my community fellows to please not indulge forum member Harkius by entertaining his blatant trolling attempts. This is not even remotely worth it.
( N_S )
Agreed. The productive discussion already started elsewhere and our efforts are better employed in keeping THAT productive and amenable to dialogue and compromise that is good for the community.
So... how can us peons who want to see for ourselves go about finding "The Gutter"? Am I overlooking the obvious somewhere? Or do I have to wheedle and beg?
Look under your group settings in your control panel.
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Randall 0705 - 2219 - 6000 and my pokemon safari is water, Azumarill Bibarel and Floatzel
Quote from "Megiddo" »
i like banning people because it makes people I don't like go away
You can apply in the user control panel under group memberships. I am sure its been discussed in this thread and the ability to join groups should be fairly well known.
I love hearing about these behind closed doors discussions. It appears that transparency doesn't apply when the Gutter is involved. My confidence in the staff's ability to stand up to a special interest group....not so much. I'm starting to think that everyone who posts in RLA should petition for a jacuzzi, enough caviar to fill the jacuzzi, and naked ladies to ogle. They might just get it with the way things are going.
I love hearing about these behind closed doors discussions. It appears that transparency doesn't apply when the Gutter is involved. My confidence in the staff's ability to stand up to a special interest group....not so much. I'm starting to think that everyone who posts in RLA should petition for a jacuzzi, enough caviar to fill the jacuzzi, and naked ladies to ogle. They might just get it with the way things are going.
the staff suggested the behind doors talks. Not the gutter.
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Randall 0705 - 2219 - 6000 and my pokemon safari is water, Azumarill Bibarel and Floatzel
Quote from "Megiddo" »
i like banning people because it makes people I don't like go away
I love hearing about these behind closed doors discussions. It appears that transparency doesn't apply when the Gutter is involved.
Did you miss the largest thread in Community Issues history devoted to the topic? The one that we're posting in right now? God forbid the staff and Gutter want to cencentrate on finding solutions without 9000 random people diving in for their two cents/trolling tirades. It was hard to figure out anything in this thread with the mess everyone made.
I love hearing about these behind closed doors discussions. It appears that transparency doesn't apply when the Gutter is involved. My confidence in the staff's ability to stand up to a special interest group....not so much. I'm starting to think that everyone who posts in RLA should petition for a jacuzzi, enough caviar to fill the jacuzzi, and naked ladies to ogle. They might just get it with the way things are going.
To be fair, there is dialogue between the staff and the Gutter now. The fact that it's hidden is immaterial to the majority of the Salvation userbase, since this issue doesn't affect them. Transparency doesn't mean that every single thing is visible, but that the processes behind relevant decisions and so forth are made visible to those affected by them.
Honestly this IS an issue that need only involve the staff and gutter. Theres nothing us regular members can do. My experiences here dont change with or without a subforum that I cannot see nor that I want to join.
I don't know why I feel the need to say this now, but my issue wasn't with the Gutter or the members, just with the attitude that the members seem to feel like they are entitled to such a forum. I don't see anything wrong with it being exclusive, a clique, a bunch of a-holes and trolls, or whatever else it is or is perceived as. If it's not for you, it's not for you. It's the cries of injustice and attacks against other people and comparisons to actual tragedies that got me really annoyed. If the staff doesn't want it around, be an adult and suck it up. And if you don't like it around...be an adult and suck it up.
I'm glad it's being hashed out and I kind of hope there's something that solves everyone's problems.
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Retrodrome!
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
I've made no secret that I don't like The Gutter or what it entails, but I am satisfied that some semblance of communication has been undertaken. However, I don't know why it failed to occur in the first place if the administrators were willing to talk with Gutter members. If the intent was to lock The Gutter from the start, discussing it only after an inevitable hundred-page argument seems less effective than telling Gutter members at the outset.
I don't know why I feel the need to say this now, but my issue wasn't with the Gutter or the members, just with the attitude that the members seem to feel like they are entitled to such a forum. I don't see anything wrong with it being exclusive, a clique, a bunch of a-holes and trolls, or whatever else it is or is perceived as. If it's not for you, it's not for you. It's the cries of injustice and attacks against other people and comparisons to actual tragedies that got me really annoyed. If the staff doesn't want it around, be an adult and suck it up. And if you don't like it around...be an adult and suck it up.
I'm glad it's being hashed out and I kind of hope there's something that solves everyone's problems.
Your account is banned today for no reason, be an adult and suck it up, if the staff doesn't want you here there is nothing you can do, and if you don't like it...be an adult and suck it up.
Pretty sound logic here, but there is not point in even arguing here any more because the discussion dropping 1000 times in quality when harkius stuck his head where it wasn't wanted or needed.
The only thing I found truly ironic about this whole situation is that the Gutter members initially went on a bit of a crusade with their siggings trying to rally the forum to their cause to save their community. But now the moment the staff have opened up dialogue the gutter members have seen fit to tell all the regular members they've tried to rally to shut up and that their opinion doesn't matter anymore.
Not that I actually expect an answer, but isn't it ironic that the very people that the gutter has tried to rally for support are the same people they are now talking down to and telling them to mind their own business?
I suppose the gutters respect and cooperation with the non-gutter members of this site stretch only as far as until the staff gives them what they want. Then everyone else can go eff themselves.
Or maybe the gutter members feel jaded that their rallying cries were met with the majority of posters believing that the gutter should be removed and supporting the staffs decision? Oh well. Have fun negotiating in your private little clubhouse, kids.
The only thing I found truly ironic about this whole situation is that the Gutter members initially went on a bit of a crusade with their siggings trying to rally the forum to their cause to save their community. But now the moment the staff have opened up dialogue the gutter members have seen fit to tell all the regular members they've tried to rally to shut up and that their opinion doesn't matter anymore.
Not that I actually expect an answer, but isn't it ironic that the very people that the gutter has tried to rally for support are the same people they are now talking down to and telling them to mind their own business?
I suppose the gutters respect and cooperation with the non-gutter members of this site stretch only as far as until the staff gives them what they want. Then everyone else can go eff themselves.
First off it was the staffs idea to move the discussion to a different place so don't act like this was a plan by the gutter to silence the masses. And anyone who is going to contribute without trolling/baiting/making uninformed ****posts is welcome to join the gutter and have at the discussion in there, if you don't want to join the gutter then I guess you don't care enough to be involved in this discussion which makes me wonder why you are even posting here?
The only thing I found truly ironic about this whole situation is that the Gutter members initially went on a bit of a crusade with their siggings trying to rally the forum to their cause to save their community. But now the moment the staff have opened up dialogue the gutter members have seen fit to tell all the regular members they've tried to rally to shut up and that their opinion doesn't matter anymore.
Not that I actually expect an answer, but isn't it ironic that the very people that the gutter has tried to rally for support are the same people they are now talking down to and telling them to mind their own business?
I suppose the gutters respect and cooperation with the non-gutter members of this site stretch only as far as until the staff gives them what they want. Then everyone else can go eff themselves.
Or maybe the gutter members feel jaded that their rallying cries were met with the majority of posters believing that the gutter should be removed and supporting the staffs decision? Oh well. Have fun negotiating in your private little clubhouse, kids.
You speak well of wanting the respect of other people, but your post is so acidic that it is difficult to approach it with kindness. I can personally say that this thread has served as a venue for reactions and initial brainstorming and debate. Now that the staff has decided to open up talks, these talks are taking place in the are designed for it. Anyone is free to apply to be a gutter member and see the discussions. Like I already said today, the environment is not so MadBro and more about finding calm-minded solutions. As evidenced by many recent posters, there is certainly a benefit since the quips of those who have no genuine interest in this compromise don't need to interfere.
I don't know how to further stress that anyone can apply to join the gutter. Gutter members do not hate the community at large. A specific branch of this dicussion has moved to a more appropriate venue.
I hope you can shed the vitrol that you have gained in approaching this discussion; have fun with the rest of MTGS (Gods know I under-utilize the actual magic-related parts of MTGS)
Your account is banned today for no reason, be an adult and suck it up, if the staff doesn't want you here there is nothing you can do, and if you don't like it...be an adult and suck it up.
Except your account hasn't been banned and you're free to post on the website as you please. Oh, except you actually have to post where everyone can see, and in a reasonable adult manner. What a terrible comparison.
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Because this is the designated thread staff has allowed non-gutter members to comment on?
I apologize teefo but I really don't find your clubhouse to have enough perks to warrant me needing to "say teh password" and provide you with picture I.D. so that I can sip juice and play cowboys and indians with you and the staff.
I've already stated that I believe that you guys should go talk about your private clubhouse in private, and that there's nothing us regular members can do. But we sure are free to comment on the situation in this thread.
If you didn't want the peons raining on your parade you guys shouldn't of tried to rally the peons in the first place.
Let's test just how disingenuous that claim is, shall we?
I am applying to join the Gutter now. I will be perfectly happy to lurk there. Let's see if my application is accepted.
Harkius
Anyone is free to apply. Discretion will of course be used when determining whether individual members are mature enough to handle the content within, and to not abuse the privilege. Subsequently most users should be let in if they can follow the rules.
Except your account hasn't been banned and you're free to post on the website as you please. Oh, except you actually have to post where everyone can see, and in a reasonable adult manner. What a terrible comparison.
Taking away the part of the site I spend 99% of my mtgs time posting in is as good as a banning.
First off it was the staffs idea to move the discussion to a different place so don't act like this was a plan by the gutter to silence the masses. And anyone who is going to contribute without trolling/baiting/making uninformed ****posts is welcome to join the gutter and have at the discussion in there, if you don't want to join the gutter then I guess you don't care enough to be involved in this discussion which makes me wonder why you are even posting here?
Important part highlighted, I am not going to guarantee you, who has a lot of history and bias towards the gutter is going to be let in, one could argue that a benefit of moving it there is to keep posters like you out but it remains to be seen, I wouldn't get your hopes up though.
I'm prepared to stand as an exception to your statement, Harkius. There are others.
Maybe not the Holocaust, but you're still arguing for assimilation. It's the same mentality that at one point in history (even in recent history) said Native Americans shouldn't be able to practice their own culture the way they want to, because they need to comport themselves like every other member of society. It's just a thinly-veiled way to destroy a community that has its own culture because that culture isn't accepted by those in power.
I'm not going to comment on the other stuff you say, but this particular argument of yours is especially ignorant, and I think it's important readers see why an assimilationist attitude is the wrong one to have, because assimilation sounds reasonable on the surface and I've seen other members take an "I don't see why it's so bad" view of the issue.
Pointless sub-forum is pointless. Good riddance, and good on the staff for finally getting it done.
My DCI ELO Ratings - May they rest in peace :'(
Except the Gutter hasn't been closed, so...
Live and let live, all.
EDIT: Okay, so it's still up for discussion. I'm not sure why or how they manage to dissuade the mods, but hopefully the OP will be upheld.
My DCI ELO Ratings - May they rest in peace :'(
Agreed. The productive discussion already started elsewhere and our efforts are better employed in keeping THAT productive and amenable to dialogue and compromise that is good for the community.
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A truly great petition
Like smashing face? Like not worrying about pitiful tokens or life gain? Check out Stonebrow, Krosan Hero for all your face smashing needs
the staff suggested the behind doors talks. Not the gutter.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
Please don't belittle the fact that the staff is listening to what people have to say.
To be fair, there is dialogue between the staff and the Gutter now. The fact that it's hidden is immaterial to the majority of the Salvation userbase, since this issue doesn't affect them. Transparency doesn't mean that every single thing is visible, but that the processes behind relevant decisions and so forth are made visible to those affected by them.
That's like people who have never used an Apple product saying Macs suck o.o Doesn't make any sense
Done by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery signatures!
I'm glad it's being hashed out and I kind of hope there's something that solves everyone's problems.
Hoi, hoi, u embleer hrair
M'saion ulé hraka vair.
That said, I still hope The Gutter is locked.
Your account is banned today for no reason, be an adult and suck it up, if the staff doesn't want you here there is nothing you can do, and if you don't like it...be an adult and suck it up.
Pretty sound logic here, but there is not point in even arguing here any more because the discussion dropping 1000 times in quality when harkius stuck his head where it wasn't wanted or needed.
I think I'm done here.
Not that I actually expect an answer, but isn't it ironic that the very people that the gutter has tried to rally for support are the same people they are now talking down to and telling them to mind their own business?
I suppose the gutters respect and cooperation with the non-gutter members of this site stretch only as far as until the staff gives them what they want. Then everyone else can go eff themselves.
Or maybe the gutter members feel jaded that their rallying cries were met with the majority of posters believing that the gutter should be removed and supporting the staffs decision? Oh well. Have fun negotiating in your private little clubhouse, kids.
First off it was the staffs idea to move the discussion to a different place so don't act like this was a plan by the gutter to silence the masses. And anyone who is going to contribute without trolling/baiting/making uninformed ****posts is welcome to join the gutter and have at the discussion in there, if you don't want to join the gutter then I guess you don't care enough to be involved in this discussion which makes me wonder why you are even posting here?
I don't know how to further stress that anyone can apply to join the gutter. Gutter members do not hate the community at large. A specific branch of this dicussion has moved to a more appropriate venue.
I hope you can shed the vitrol that you have gained in approaching this discussion; have fun with the rest of MTGS (Gods know I under-utilize the actual magic-related parts of MTGS)
Except your account hasn't been banned and you're free to post on the website as you please. Oh, except you actually have to post where everyone can see, and in a reasonable adult manner. What a terrible comparison.
My DCI ELO Ratings - May they rest in peace :'(
I apologize teefo but I really don't find your clubhouse to have enough perks to warrant me needing to "say teh password" and provide you with picture I.D. so that I can sip juice and play cowboys and indians with you and the staff.
I've already stated that I believe that you guys should go talk about your private clubhouse in private, and that there's nothing us regular members can do. But we sure are free to comment on the situation in this thread.
If you didn't want the peons raining on your parade you guys shouldn't of tried to rally the peons in the first place.
Anyone is free to apply. Discretion will of course be used when determining whether individual members are mature enough to handle the content within, and to not abuse the privilege. Subsequently most users should be let in if they can follow the rules.
Taking away the part of the site I spend 99% of my mtgs time posting in is as good as a banning.
Important part highlighted, I am not going to guarantee you, who has a lot of history and bias towards the gutter is going to be let in, one could argue that a benefit of moving it there is to keep posters like you out but it remains to be seen, I wouldn't get your hopes up though.