The issue is that the post didn't actually break any rules of WCT or Personal Advice. Could it be taken as inflamittory? Yes. Should it have been said? No. Could it have been rephrased to accomplish the same purpose? Yes. I get the gist of what Navy Joe is trying to say, but he said it in the worst way possible. Much like Kijin did.
Did you just compare antagonizing an admittedly unstable individual who had posted threats of violence against his schoolmates to telling people, through some "bad words," that their advice is poor and not a replacement for the advice of a licensed medical professional or other counselor? This is precisely what I mean when I said "Your moral compass and sense of priority is completely out of whack." This is a gross and frankly absurd lack of logic and foresight.
I know that every user has their own grand vision of what salve is, but the main thing salve is, is a place for everyone to come post about magic without fear of trolling/flaming and other behavior that scars the internet. That means our userbase is vast. That means your gonna hate someone's posting style or arrogance or whatever. Whatever the reason people come here, the rules we have are meant to make people feel welcome and safe within those rules. When a user breaks those rules they get infracted, when a mod breaks those rules they get infracted, publicly dragged through the mud and sometimes de-modded. I volunteer on this site because i want it to be a better place for everyone who wants to talk about Magic and such. I'm sure that's the same reason all moderators apply, they want this place to be the best it can be.
How does this excuse your inaction in dealing with a clearly labeled threat and those seeking to instigate it? How does this excuse that nothing has been done to this point? How does this excuse that I am destaffed for unbecoming, yet roundly applauded moral activism, but a complete bout of inaction in any other meaningful way on any other person on this site?
I have a question. Why didn't you, as a WCT Mod, warn or infract Navy Joe instead of/combined with locking it?
Are you willfully ignorant or just trolling? I made at least four, though possibly more, report posts in the thread in addition to advice for the OP and a condemnation at those not requesting he take the best course of action because I am not and never have been a Water Cooler Talk moderator.
What do I have to gloat about? MTGS isn't exactly in the best situation right now I'm not sure where you're coming from.
And you honestly think, Matt, that obtaining this knowledge will make it a better place? Let bygones be bygones, and sleeping dogs lie. There's too many poisoned arrows sticking out of everyone's back recently. After being a member, being on staff, being removed from staff, having a vendetta against certain staff, and realizing my mistakes and apologizing to said staff to the best of my abilities, I've come to one conclusion: if this message board is causing you more mental anguish then it is giving you utils of satisfaction, then move on. There doesn't need to be this much vitriol for something so trivial. It took me a while to learn that.
Are you willfully ignorant or just trolling? I made at least four, though possibly more, report posts in the thread in addition to advice for the OP and a condemnation at those not requesting he take the best course of action because I am not and never have been a Water Cooler Talk moderator.
Excuse me, I was under the impression that you were the one that locked it, meaning you'd have had to have been a Water Cooler Talk mod. I've been advised I was mistaken, so apologies.
Why was it necessary to be so hostile in your response to me?
Excuse me, I was under the impression that you were the one that locked it, meaning you'd have had to have been a Water Cooler Talk mod. I've been advised I was mistaken, so apologies.
Why was it necessary to be so hostile in your response to me?
I think a modicium of vitrol given the circumstances is to be expected. Kijin really doesn't need to be dealing with things like that. Someone who is bothering to post about this drama without doing their research insofar as reading the thread (and seeing that Viricide locked it) is not really helping at all.
Hi all, I see I got back home at an opportune time.
Yes, our priorities got skewed, and none of us dealt with an immediate, obviously problematic post - we got too hanged up with other issues, and as a result, here we are. The staff absolutely did make a mistake, one I hope we'll learn from, and do our best to not repeat.
Excuse me, I was under the impression that you were the one that locked it, meaning you'd have had to have been a Water Cooler Talk mod. I've been advised I was mistaken, so apologies.
Why was it necessary to be so hostile in your response to me?
Because your silence on this issue, as well as ability to see the red-texted post that closed the thread, implies you are being willfully ignorant or are intentionally trolling. That you had to ask such a question when issues present here are far deeper than if a moderator who did not moderate the section he was posting in closed a thread, in addition to previous posts in this very thread that clearly spell out that I'd reported a number of posts in the thread (why would I report posts in a section of the forums I moderate?) imply at least the former.
If you're not willing to catch yourself up to speed and make ignorant comments, don't expect an open welcome. It's not like this thread is all that long, and it's not like there isn't an entire subforum where the staff is supposedly discussing this. You had time to respond to every post in your Sex thread, but you cannot read 4 pages of this thread. That's deplorable.
How does this excuse your inaction in dealing with a clearly labeled threat and those seeking to instigate it? How does this excuse that nothing has been done to this point? How does this excuse that I am destaffed for unbecoming, yet roundly applauded moral activism, but a complete bout of inaction in any other meaningful way on any other person on this site?
I never said it excused it. There is no excuse other than a mistake was made.
This wasn't a mistake. This was a moral abortion.
Your demodding was not 100%= to your actions in this thread, nor does NavyJoe's complaint have anything to do with why a mistake was made. I'm not going to pretend that we didn't do you an injustice by missing something as major as this.
I think a modicium of vitrol given the circumstances is to be expected. Kijin really doesn't need to be dealing with things like that. Someone who is bothering to post about this drama without doing their research insofar as reading the thread (and seeing that Viricide locked it) is not really helping at all.
No, I don't think it was necessary for him to be hostile to me in the least. I asked a valid question (even though it was directed at the wrong person). A simple, "Lol, silly Manders, I wasn't a WCT mod" would have sufficed. Instead, I get accused of being willfully ignorant (ignorant I'll accept, but not willfully so) and/or trolling. That's nice.
Because your silence on this issue, as well as ability to see the red-texted post that closed the thread, implies you are being willfully ignorant or are intentionally trolling. That you had to ask such a question when issues present here are far deeper than if a moderator who did not moderate the section he was posting in closed a thread, in addition to previous posts in this very thread that clearly spell out that I'd reported a number of posts in the thread (why would I report posts in a section of the forums I moderate?) imply at least the former.
If you're not willing to catch yourself up to speed and make ignorant comments, don't expect an open welcome. It's not like this thread is all that long, and it's not like there isn't an entire subforum where the staff is supposedly discussing this. You had time to respond to every post in your Sex thread, but you cannot read 4 pages of this thread. That's deplorable.
@ your bolded: Where do you think I got corrected from?
Regardless, I've apologized for being ignorant of the entire situation. Accept it or not.
No, I don't think it was necessary for him to be hostile to me in the least. I asked a valid question (even though it was directed at the wrong person). A simple, "Lol, silly Manders, I wasn't a WCT mod" would have sufficed. Instead, I get accused of being willfully ignorant (ignorant I'll accept, but not willfully so) and/or trolling. That's nice.
You had time to read and reply to every post in a Sex thread, but in a thread that is only 4 pages long, with the offending thread visible to you, and commentary within the 4 page thread indicating my role in the thread, coupled with a presumed mod lounge discussion, that you need to enter a thread on a serious topic to ask a question as off-topic, irrelevant, and, given the state of affairs and very openly obtainable information, insulting as you did is... well, insulting.
No, I don't think it was necessary for him to be hostile to me in the least. I asked a valid question (even though it was directed at the wrong person). A simple, "Lol, silly Manders, I wasn't a WCT mod" would have sufficed. Instead, I get accused of being willfully ignorant (ignorant I'll accept, but not willfully so) and/or trolling. That's nice.
Considering the tension here, the way things are going, and the lack of effort to check first then post I dont think its a surprised you got the responce you got. Im more surprised that you expected different.
Wow. This issue is alot more complicated than it at first appeared. I thought Kijin was stepping down and wished him well. Though we haven't always gotten along I have grown to respect him over the years. If Kijin had only been a mod for a month and was demodded I wouldn't even be here but he has served the MTGS community for years and I find the response in this matter unsatisfactory.
Briefly, here's what happened: (it is actually rather simple)
We get reports about the thread in question, and it is discussed in the Mod Lounge.
Viricide locks the thread, and I post "We'll take it from here". By that, I meant "We will decide what we should do with the original poster, and process it".
However, Viricide read it as "The admins will take care of this thread from now on".
The higher-ups just discuss the banning, while Viricide thinks we are handling the entire thread (including the reported posts), not just the OP.
We didn't realize the miscommunication until we got here, to this thread.
I realize how my post was cryptic, and that it got misinterpreted is my fault for being unclear. The staff does its best to communicate about issues that arise, but sometimes we get it wrong. If you still have any questions regarding this, feel free to ask. I'll do my best to answer.
Hi everyone. I'd like to take a moment to address a few issues and hopefully clear up some questions that people obviously have.
1. I closed the thread as soon as I got to it. Unfortunately this wasn't nearly soon enough given all that transpired, but I'm just a volunteer; I have a real job and I can't be here all the time.
2. I didn't issue any infractions for any posts in the thread. The reason for this, as I explained in my Helpdesk, was that the senior staff (specifically Sene) told me they would be handling the thread after I closed it. This was a miscommunication involving both parties; Sene intended for his comment to mean "we will process any actions for the original poster", while I interpreted his comment to mean "we will process any actions for all the posts". With that understanding, I let the thread be.
In summary, a very nasty thread landed in my lap; I got to it as fast as I could and dealt with it as best I could. I could have done a better job, and you all have my apologies that I didn't.
I hope this clears up some of the issues being raised, but if anything is still unclear, then by all means, please let me know.
I have never really had an opinion on any other mod, and normally hate the "farewell" posts, but I had to speak up this time.
Kijin, it has been a pleasure. You have been the only moderator in my 7 years on this forum that I have paid attention to, and I am definitely unhappy that I can no longer expect to see paraphrased rap lyrics used in infractions.
If you got moderator problems, I feel bad for you son
Salvation's got 99 moderators, but Kijin ain't one
My confusion is over why any of you are fit and trusted to run this site.
Moderating a Magic forum, particularly a non-Magic section, is not, in the grand scheme of the internet, important work. It does not move the economy, create jobs, etc. It's a free-time, for-fun activity done at a volunteer's grade. You're human volunteers, and unpaid human volunteers make mistakes.
But this isn't just any mistake. This is gambling with potentially many human lives, given the circumstance and subject material, and past (internet) history of premeditated attacks on groups following online postings. The one time your job was actually important to the real world, there was a systemic failure, where I was still able to make two posts -- and be brought through the proceedings of being destaffed behind closed doors -- before any measure of action was earnestly taken, and still there was no punishment doled out to the people responsible for potentially responsible for the deaths of others, and still there was no "discussion" occurring until I'd learned that the MTGS staff left its moral compass and sense of logic and priority in another place entirely.
Your systemic failure was compounded by further false senses of urgency and complete ignorance of a greater issue than "rude name calling."
You guys made a mistake the one time where it counted and the one time the results could have been disastrous. Why are you trusted with this community?
My confusion is over why any of you are fit and trusted to run this site.
Moderating a Magic forum, particularly a non-Magic section, is not, in the grand scheme of the internet, important work. It does not move the economy, create jobs, etc. It's a free-time, for-fun activity done at a volunteer's grade. You're human volunteers, and unpaid human volunteers make mistakes.
But this isn't just any mistake. This is gambling with potentially many human lives, given the circumstance and subject material, and past (internet) history of premeditated attacks on groups following online postings. The one time your job was actually important to the real world, there was a systemic failure, where I was still able to make two posts -- and be brought through the proceedings of being destaffed behind closed doors -- before any measure of action was earnestly taken, and still there was no punishment doled out to the people responsible for potentially responsible for the deaths of others, and still there was no "discussion" occurring until I'd learned that the MTGS staff left its moral compass and sense of logic and priority in another place entirely.
You guys made a mistake the one time where it counted and the one time the results could have been disastrous. Why are you trusted with this community?
We did everything we could to deal with the real issue at hand. I created a thread in the admin lounge soon after I realized what was up, and we handled that with the seriousness it demanded: a ban, and a Very Clear message that you must seek the help from a professional therapist. We even considered further steps, but based on information we then received, we deemed it not necessary.
We have been communicating with the user in question post-banning, and it is my firm belief that the issue has been solved, and that the user will seek appropriate help.
My confusion is over why any of you are fit and trusted to run this site.
Moderating a Magic forum, particularly a non-Magic section, is not, in the grand scheme of the internet, important work. It does not move the economy, create jobs, etc. It's a free-time, for-fun activity done at a volunteer's grade. You're human volunteers, and unpaid human volunteers make mistakes.
But this isn't just any mistake. This is gambling with potentially many human lives, given the circumstance and subject material, and past (internet) history of premeditated attacks on groups following online postings. The one time your job was actually important to the real world, there was a systemic failure, where I was still able to make two posts -- and be brought through the proceedings of being destaffed behind closed doors -- before any measure of action was earnestly taken, and still there was no punishment doled out to the people responsible for potentially responsible for the deaths of others, and still there was no "discussion" occurring until I'd learned that the MTGS staff left its moral compass and sense of logic and priority in another place entirely.
Your systemic failure was compounded by further false senses of urgency and complete ignorance of a greater issue than "rude name calling."
You guys made a mistake the one time where it counted and the one time the results could have been disastrous. Why are you trusted with this community?
I'm not sure what else I can add beyond what I've already said, but since I'm the one that moderates the non-Magic section of a Magic forum, I feel like I should say something rather than just ignore the post.
To the first question, I honestly can't answer it. I applied to be a moderator in December and was accepted, and since then I've tried to do my best. It's that simple.
You make a lot of points about the potentially grave consequences of mishandling this situation. All of those points are accurate and salient. As I explained before, I did my best. I closed the thread as soon as I could to prevent any more inflammatory posts, and I contacted the OP personally to let him know why I did that and to urge him to seek professional help.
Responding faster would have been preferable, but I simply wasn't here to do so. I'm not sure how I can say it more plainly.
Any issues involving your treatment or destaffing are obviously beyond my purview; I had nothing to do with that in any way.
We did everything we could to deal with the real issue at hand. I created a thread in the admin lounge soon after I realized what was up, and we handled that with the seriousness it demanded: a ban, and a Very Clear message that you must seek the help from a professional therapist. We even considered further steps, but based on information we then received, we deemed it not necessary.
We have been communicating with the user in question post-banning, and it is my firm belief that the issue has been solved, and that the user will seek appropriate help.
And what if we didn't make it to that step? What if the user had taken off in response to the inflammatory comments made at him in the thread? Are we just now brushing that under the rug? What have you done with those?
Where is your moral urgency? Where is your sense of propriety and accountability for the many wrongs done her? How is destaffing a person who said some bad words higher on the list than making sure a person who verbally assaulted a mentally unwell individual with a penchant towards mass social violence? How is it higher on the list than ignoring that for over 24 hours?
Shame on you.
Edit: A "very clear message that you must seek help" only after a number of users had already done so. Only after a number of users had, presumably reported the post. Only after a number of users had issued $0.02 in as far as baiting that user. And only after a person you destaffed exploded against the wrongs done in that thread.
For what it's worth as an addition, lone gentleman did tell me in his response to my private message that he had no intention of committing any acts of violence, and he asked me to make that clear in the thread, which I did. I'm not saying this absolves anything, but we did communicate with the user, and we did address the issue of violence, and we did update the thread to reflect the relevant information.
We did everything we could to deal with the real issue at hand. I created a thread in the admin lounge soon after I realized what was up, and we handled that with the seriousness it demanded: a ban, and a Very Clear message that you must seek the help from a professional therapist. We even considered further steps, but based on information we then received, we deemed it not necessary.
We have been communicating with the user in question post-banning, and it is my firm belief that the issue has been solved, and that the user will seek appropriate help.
This. Sene & I were unaware that our involvement needed to go beyond addressing the original poster & the complaints were receiving about Kijin's behavior.
& since Kijin is choosing to not make it clear himself, his comment is one in a long history of such comments. He & I have had many PM conversations that he needed to separate his personal vitriol from his staff duties, & which he continually failed to do. I asked him if he would consider standing down rather than make us fire him, but clearly any respect or face that would be saved by that route has been thrown out the window, so I have no problem saying, Kijin has a long service record, yes, but it is one that has consistently raised issues for administrators.
Kijin, we have lives. We responded to the original poster as soon as we were made aware, & the need to address anything else was not made clear. It's been how long? Not even 48 hours.
If I were a paid professional, I might take your concerns of timeliness more seriously. As it is, I think you've lost perspective.
That's very good, but merely a symptom of the problem here.
Understandable. I just wanted to make it clear that we were all keenly aware of the potential for violence, and that I did what I could to address that issue.
Regarding the issue of timeliness, looking at the time stamps shows that there was a little less than five hours between my first encounter with the thread and my update from lone gentleman, including the time it took him to reply. Clearly not ideal, but it certainly could have been worse.
My personal shortcomings in respect to not being on staff are irrelevant to this discussion, rianalnn, and that's very disingenuous of you to bring them up.
I don't think you actually have a perspective of the situation. Your response time permitted two full pages to be posted before any response was made, the person attacking the unstable individual was not only not punished for his attack -- which could have lead to the deaths of others -- until after a **** show was raised here, but was not even repraised after raising a second thread in Community Issues. Not only that, but I made MULTIPLE report posts in that thread for users offering diagnostic and antagonistic advice to the user, which I have to assume were ignored as they were not apparent until this discussion began.
This is the one time your job mattered on a real world scale and you punished the one person speaking out actively against injustice while only responding to injustice after torches were brought out. You have no sense of propriety on a very real, very real-world consequential issue.
Saying, "Whoops, I screwed up!" when lives hung in the balance is not adequate. Were this just another cat and mouse "oh this guy didn't get a warning when he was being mean" thread, maybe it would be adequate. But this is a real issue and you really screwed up, as well as showed shaky -- if even existent -- moral footing.
You did a bad thing. You have shown that you're not capable to be in the position you are in at the one point it at may matter during.
Did you just compare antagonizing an admittedly unstable individual who had posted threats of violence against his schoolmates to telling people, through some "bad words," that their advice is poor and not a replacement for the advice of a licensed medical professional or other counselor? This is precisely what I mean when I said "Your moral compass and sense of priority is completely out of whack." This is a gross and frankly absurd lack of logic and foresight.
How does this excuse your inaction in dealing with a clearly labeled threat and those seeking to instigate it? How does this excuse that nothing has been done to this point? How does this excuse that I am destaffed for unbecoming, yet roundly applauded moral activism, but a complete bout of inaction in any other meaningful way on any other person on this site?
This wasn't a mistake. This was a moral abortion.
Are you willfully ignorant or just trolling? I made at least four, though possibly more, report posts in the thread in addition to advice for the OP and a condemnation at those not requesting he take the best course of action because I am not and never have been a Water Cooler Talk moderator.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
And you honestly think, Matt, that obtaining this knowledge will make it a better place? Let bygones be bygones, and sleeping dogs lie. There's too many poisoned arrows sticking out of everyone's back recently. After being a member, being on staff, being removed from staff, having a vendetta against certain staff, and realizing my mistakes and apologizing to said staff to the best of my abilities, I've come to one conclusion: if this message board is causing you more mental anguish then it is giving you utils of satisfaction, then move on. There doesn't need to be this much vitriol for something so trivial. It took me a while to learn that.
Excuse me, I was under the impression that you were the one that locked it, meaning you'd have had to have been a Water Cooler Talk mod. I've been advised I was mistaken, so apologies.
Why was it necessary to be so hostile in your response to me?
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
I think a modicium of vitrol given the circumstances is to be expected. Kijin really doesn't need to be dealing with things like that. Someone who is bothering to post about this drama without doing their research insofar as reading the thread (and seeing that Viricide locked it) is not really helping at all.
Because you have a couple run ins with kijin.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
Yes, our priorities got skewed, and none of us dealt with an immediate, obviously problematic post - we got too hanged up with other issues, and as a result, here we are. The staff absolutely did make a mistake, one I hope we'll learn from, and do our best to not repeat.
My apologies, on behalf of the staff.
Because your silence on this issue, as well as ability to see the red-texted post that closed the thread, implies you are being willfully ignorant or are intentionally trolling. That you had to ask such a question when issues present here are far deeper than if a moderator who did not moderate the section he was posting in closed a thread, in addition to previous posts in this very thread that clearly spell out that I'd reported a number of posts in the thread (why would I report posts in a section of the forums I moderate?) imply at least the former.
If you're not willing to catch yourself up to speed and make ignorant comments, don't expect an open welcome. It's not like this thread is all that long, and it's not like there isn't an entire subforum where the staff is supposedly discussing this. You had time to respond to every post in your Sex thread, but you cannot read 4 pages of this thread. That's deplorable.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
I never said it excused it. There is no excuse other than a mistake was made.
Your demodding was not 100%= to your actions in this thread, nor does NavyJoe's complaint have anything to do with why a mistake was made. I'm not going to pretend that we didn't do you an injustice by missing something as major as this.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
No, I don't think it was necessary for him to be hostile to me in the least. I asked a valid question (even though it was directed at the wrong person). A simple, "Lol, silly Manders, I wasn't a WCT mod" would have sufficed. Instead, I get accused of being willfully ignorant (ignorant I'll accept, but not willfully so) and/or trolling. That's nice.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
@ your bolded: Where do you think I got corrected from?
Regardless, I've apologized for being ignorant of the entire situation. Accept it or not.
Tired of corporate corruption ruining your favorite MtG site?
Come join ours!!
We even have Mafia!!
You had time to read and reply to every post in a Sex thread, but in a thread that is only 4 pages long, with the offending thread visible to you, and commentary within the 4 page thread indicating my role in the thread, coupled with a presumed mod lounge discussion, that you need to enter a thread on a serious topic to ask a question as off-topic, irrelevant, and, given the state of affairs and very openly obtainable information, insulting as you did is... well, insulting.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
Considering the tension here, the way things are going, and the lack of effort to check first then post I dont think its a surprised you got the responce you got. Im more surprised that you expected different.
1. I closed the thread as soon as I got to it. Unfortunately this wasn't nearly soon enough given all that transpired, but I'm just a volunteer; I have a real job and I can't be here all the time.
2. I didn't issue any infractions for any posts in the thread. The reason for this, as I explained in my Helpdesk, was that the senior staff (specifically Sene) told me they would be handling the thread after I closed it. This was a miscommunication involving both parties; Sene intended for his comment to mean "we will process any actions for the original poster", while I interpreted his comment to mean "we will process any actions for all the posts". With that understanding, I let the thread be.
In summary, a very nasty thread landed in my lap; I got to it as fast as I could and dealt with it as best I could. I could have done a better job, and you all have my apologies that I didn't.
I hope this clears up some of the issues being raised, but if anything is still unclear, then by all means, please let me know.
Kijin, it has been a pleasure. You have been the only moderator in my 7 years on this forum that I have paid attention to, and I am definitely unhappy that I can no longer expect to see paraphrased rap lyrics used in infractions.
If you got moderator problems, I feel bad for you son
Salvation's got 99 moderators, but Kijin ain't one
Peace, brother.
Moderating a Magic forum, particularly a non-Magic section, is not, in the grand scheme of the internet, important work. It does not move the economy, create jobs, etc. It's a free-time, for-fun activity done at a volunteer's grade. You're human volunteers, and unpaid human volunteers make mistakes.
But this isn't just any mistake. This is gambling with potentially many human lives, given the circumstance and subject material, and past (internet) history of premeditated attacks on groups following online postings. The one time your job was actually important to the real world, there was a systemic failure, where I was still able to make two posts -- and be brought through the proceedings of being destaffed behind closed doors -- before any measure of action was earnestly taken, and still there was no punishment doled out to the people responsible for potentially responsible for the deaths of others, and still there was no "discussion" occurring until I'd learned that the MTGS staff left its moral compass and sense of logic and priority in another place entirely.
Your systemic failure was compounded by further false senses of urgency and complete ignorance of a greater issue than "rude name calling."
You guys made a mistake the one time where it counted and the one time the results could have been disastrous. Why are you trusted with this community?
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
We did everything we could to deal with the real issue at hand. I created a thread in the admin lounge soon after I realized what was up, and we handled that with the seriousness it demanded: a ban, and a Very Clear message that you must seek the help from a professional therapist. We even considered further steps, but based on information we then received, we deemed it not necessary.
We have been communicating with the user in question post-banning, and it is my firm belief that the issue has been solved, and that the user will seek appropriate help.
I'm not sure what else I can add beyond what I've already said, but since I'm the one that moderates the non-Magic section of a Magic forum, I feel like I should say something rather than just ignore the post.
To the first question, I honestly can't answer it. I applied to be a moderator in December and was accepted, and since then I've tried to do my best. It's that simple.
You make a lot of points about the potentially grave consequences of mishandling this situation. All of those points are accurate and salient. As I explained before, I did my best. I closed the thread as soon as I could to prevent any more inflammatory posts, and I contacted the OP personally to let him know why I did that and to urge him to seek professional help.
Responding faster would have been preferable, but I simply wasn't here to do so. I'm not sure how I can say it more plainly.
Any issues involving your treatment or destaffing are obviously beyond my purview; I had nothing to do with that in any way.
And what if we didn't make it to that step? What if the user had taken off in response to the inflammatory comments made at him in the thread? Are we just now brushing that under the rug? What have you done with those?
Where is your moral urgency? Where is your sense of propriety and accountability for the many wrongs done her? How is destaffing a person who said some bad words higher on the list than making sure a person who verbally assaulted a mentally unwell individual with a penchant towards mass social violence? How is it higher on the list than ignoring that for over 24 hours?
Shame on you.
Edit: A "very clear message that you must seek help" only after a number of users had already done so. Only after a number of users had, presumably reported the post. Only after a number of users had issued $0.02 in as far as baiting that user. And only after a person you destaffed exploded against the wrongs done in that thread.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr
& since Kijin is choosing to not make it clear himself, his comment is one in a long history of such comments. He & I have had many PM conversations that he needed to separate his personal vitriol from his staff duties, & which he continually failed to do. I asked him if he would consider standing down rather than make us fire him, but clearly any respect or face that would be saved by that route has been thrown out the window, so I have no problem saying, Kijin has a long service record, yes, but it is one that has consistently raised issues for administrators.
Kijin, we have lives. We responded to the original poster as soon as we were made aware, & the need to address anything else was not made clear. It's been how long? Not even 48 hours.
If I were a paid professional, I might take your concerns of timeliness more seriously. As it is, I think you've lost perspective.
Regarding the issue of timeliness, looking at the time stamps shows that there was a little less than five hours between my first encounter with the thread and my update from lone gentleman, including the time it took him to reply. Clearly not ideal, but it certainly could have been worse.
I don't think you actually have a perspective of the situation. Your response time permitted two full pages to be posted before any response was made, the person attacking the unstable individual was not only not punished for his attack -- which could have lead to the deaths of others -- until after a **** show was raised here, but was not even repraised after raising a second thread in Community Issues. Not only that, but I made MULTIPLE report posts in that thread for users offering diagnostic and antagonistic advice to the user, which I have to assume were ignored as they were not apparent until this discussion began.
This is the one time your job mattered on a real world scale and you punished the one person speaking out actively against injustice while only responding to injustice after torches were brought out. You have no sense of propriety on a very real, very real-world consequential issue.
Saying, "Whoops, I screwed up!" when lives hung in the balance is not adequate. Were this just another cat and mouse "oh this guy didn't get a warning when he was being mean" thread, maybe it would be adequate. But this is a real issue and you really screwed up, as well as showed shaky -- if even existent -- moral footing.
You did a bad thing. You have shown that you're not capable to be in the position you are in at the one point it at may matter during.
Buy from me on TCGPlayer::Twitter::Flickr