I was going to complain about why you would care, but having my home address, pictures, and other information about me posted is fairly creepy. Yes, it is available elsewhere, but putting it all in one place, I don't know, it was fairly off-putting.
I feel people should be PM'ed before a wiki page is made about them.
I would have liked very much if I was informed BEFORE a wiki page had been made of me. Is there anyway this could be done?
ANy Info off site should not be accessable... BUT What ever info you make in a public forum tends to be easy to find no matter what. Also Most people get all happy that there is pages about themselves UNTILL they say something or do something stupid and that also gets recorded.
I feel If people do something stupid out in a public forum it should be free game to be recorded on said forum.
Sure, ST, in general those are fair points. But in reporting information you also have basic journalistic responsibilities: what you are reporting should be true and what you are reporting should always take into consideration the well-being of that one you are reporting on.
Several pieces of information on my page are simply not true, the external links are not me and other information is fairly outdated. Additionally, in general, I don't think advertising public addresses is something we want to do. I'm not upset, after all I can edit any of this at any time. But if this is general practice, it should probably be curtailed.
I agree with Sorryguy on this. Things that members have done on the forum and are related to the forum are fine. Items such as personal home addresses should not be on the Wiki. Those are not relevant to the member's history or place on the forum, and leaves the member vulnerable to attacks. One could argue that the address could be found elsewhere on the site, but the truth of the matter is that most people wouldn't even know it was hidden away on here if it wasn't for the Wiki.
I don't think that a member needs to messaged before a page for them is created. However, I do think they need to be notified before any major personal information is uploaded.
I am only saying I feel people should be notified when a wiki page is made about them. Like SorryGuy, some things said on my page were wrong, like my year of birth.
Telling the person who's page is made about them that there IS a page, I feel, would help everyone.
Also, if there was some way to be told if your wiki page was edited, that would also be helpful. It does not seem like the wiki page is as heavily police as the forums, but I am assuming the same rules apply?
If the person's who wiki page was edited got a PM, he or she could help self police their own page.
I am woundering if there is some automated way to do this, to make less work, not more.
Sure, ST, in general those are fair points. But in reporting information you also have basic journalistic responsibilities: what you are reporting should be true and what you are reporting should always take into consideration the well-being of that one you are reporting on.
Several pieces of information on my page are simply not true, the external links are not me and other information is fairly outdated. Additionally, in general, I don't think advertising public addresses is something we want to do. I'm not upset, after all I can edit any of this at any time. But if this is general practice, it should probably be curtailed.
I agree on the false info should not be placed on there at all. but some people tend to see negatives on them and cry ZOMG FALSE... But if the source can be cited on site then I still call it fair game. ALSO in the same respect Some of us *myself included* Have volunteered outside information as we lead public lives that have NO personal hurting info online.
If Magic Mage is the one putting personal information about forum members into their wiki pages, be it facebook, myspace, home address, whatever, then I believe the staff should remove her from the Wiki project effectively immediately and ban her from MTGS. It is a gross abuse of her power and violation of peoples privacy. There is absolutely ZERO justification for it and in no way can we, IMO, have good faith in her abilities and judgement to oversee the Wiki if she's responsible for it.
If she isn't, then whoever is should be banned for it.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
If Magic Mage is the one putting personal information about forum members into their wiki pages, be it facebook, myspace, home address, whatever, then I believe the staff should remove her from the Wiki project effectively immediately and ban her from MTGS. It is a gross abuse of her power and violation of peoples privacy. There is absolutely ZERO justification for it and in no way can we, IMO, have good faith in her abilities and judgement to oversee the Wiki if she's responsible for it.
If she isn't, then whoever is should be banned for it.
I would like to point out that you don't need to be a MTGS member to join the wiki and edit pages. These edits could be caused by wiki-trolls.
This is also why I made my page and check it at least once a week. It is a good way to make sure your info is just right. But I do support the PM system.
If Magic Mage is the one putting personal information about forum members into their wiki pages, be it facebook, myspace, home address, whatever, then I believe the staff should remove her from the Wiki project effectively immediately and ban her from MTGS. It is a gross abuse of her power and violation of peoples privacy. There is absolutely ZERO justification for it and in no way can we, IMO, have good faith in her abilities and judgement to oversee the Wiki if she's responsible for it.
If she isn't, then whoever is should be banned for it.
wow, that seems a bit extreme, i mean from what you said here, you would want someone banned for even playing a practical joke between friends, online or off. I mean i can understand the personal things, but if the wiki is fully moderated, then anything not personal should not go through.
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wow, that seems a bit extreme, i mean from what you said here, you would want someone banned for even playing a practical joke between friends, online or off. I mean i can understand the personal things, but if the wiki is fully moderated, then anything not personal should not go through.
If the Wiki is fully moderated, we wouldn't really be talking about this issue.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
If the Wiki is fully moderated, we wouldn't really be talking about this issue.
1. Both Wikipedia and MTGS are fully moderated, but we still discuss the **** that goes down and gets through the system. No amount of moderation is going to stop everyone, especially the most determined of trolls and wiki-trolls.
2. MM can't really tell what info is right or wrong, or if the person doesn't want that info known. She is not a priori as far as I can tell.
3. Things like a wiki require a certain amount of self-moderation by the entire community and not just one person like MM.
If people didnt post Private information into public places we wouldnt even have this discussion.
If people are stupid enough to post personal information on this site that shouldn't be shared, it is their own fault. Whatever is on this site is fair game.
Myspace, facebook, former blogs, etc, is NOT acceptable. Neither is the posting of addresses.
@ Guardman:
1. I meant moderated in the sense that someone besides Magic Mage is actually watching over it, and someone keeping her in line.
2. Then she has zero business posting that information. If she cannot say with absolute certainty it's acceptable to put up some information about someone, then it should not be posted.
3. Yes, it does.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Myspace, facebook, former blogs, etc, is NOT acceptable. Neither is the posting of addresses.
Myspace, facebook, former blogs, etc ARE Public as any human being with the ability to do a serch on these sites can and WILL find you on them. Thus the reason they are Social network sites...
Addreases on the other hand is bad BUT you dont know who the hell is posting them.
You seam to have the idea in mind that BAN MM NOW AND DO IT FAST DAMN IT. before you even know if its her, her and others, OR just others doing it.
Myspace, facebook, former blogs, etc ARE Public as any human being with the ability to do a serch on these sites can and WILL find you on them. Thus the reason they are Social network sites...
Addreases on the other hand is bad BUT you dont know who the hell is posting them.
You seam to have the idea in mind that BAN MM NOW AND DO IT FAST DAMN IT. before you even know if its her, her and others, OR just others doing it.
I agree with Sapphire Tri that Myspace, Facebook, etc. are public information and therefore are acceptable sources for information for a person's wiki page, considering that there is no rule that the only info used in the wiki must be from the user xemself or MTGS.
As to whether or not it is right is an entirely different matter, as it deals with the usage and distribution of publicly avaliable information, which is a touchy subject to say the least. I will only say that it is legal to repost/reprint publicly avaliable information.
Myspace, facebook, former blogs, etc ARE Public as any human being with the ability to do a serch on these sites can and WILL find you on them. Thus the reason they are Social network sites...
Addreases on the other hand is bad BUT you dont know who the hell is posting them.
You seam to have the idea in mind that BAN MM NOW AND DO IT FAST DAMN IT. before you even know if its her, her and others, OR just others doing it.
It doesn't matter if YOU can search for them, Sapphire Tri. Just because it is out there does NOT give you, Magic Mage or anyone else the right to go digging for that information and making it even more available for everyone and their bloody brother to see.
Let me give you an example. Suppose someone were to do a background check on, oh I don't know, we'll say Daffy Duck. Let's also suppose that the information he found out was public information, like court records, and found out Daffy Duck was convicted of two counts possession of marijuana. Should Magic Mage (or whoever) be allowed to post that information? **** no.
I have names and addresses for every person I've traded with in MTGS. Does that mean if I wanted to be vindictive against someone it would be a-okay for me to edit their wiki member entry with all the public information I can find about them?
NO. It would NOT be okay.
That is the underlying issue, in my opinion. Yes, it's public information, but there should be a limit to what MM or whoever should be allowed to dig up and post here, and that limit, in my opinion, does not allow for her or anyone else to dig up anything personal about me, you, whoever and post it, public information or not.
As for MM, I'm convinced she's guilty as all sin and should be banned, yes. But she's got a right to defend herself against any accusation levied against her as well.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
It doesn't matter if YOU can search for them, Sapphire Tri. Just because it is out there does NOT give you, Magic Mage or anyone else the right to go digging for that information and making it even more available for everyone and their bloody brother to see.
Let me give you an example. Suppose someone were to do a background check on, oh I don't know, we'll say Daffy Duck. Let's also suppose that the information he found out was public information, like court records, and found out Daffy Duck was convicted of two counts possession of marijuana. Should Magic Mage (or whoever) be allowed to post that information? **** no.
Technically if it is publicly available she is allowed to post it, and is perfectly legal to do so and within the MTGS wiki rules, until stated otherwiss. But we are getting back to the argument about what is allowed and what one should post according to modern ideas of morals and ethics.
I have names and addresses for every person I've traded with in MTGS. Does that mean if I wanted to be vindictive against someone it would be a-okay for me to edit their wiki member entry with all the public information I can find about them?
What you just quoted is actually private information, if it was given only to you, or a select group, and only for your own personal use. If xe posted it on MTGS instead of giving it to you personally that would be a different matter as the info is now public.
NO. It would NOT be okay.
That is the underlying issue, in my opinion. Yes, it's public information, but there should be a limit to what MM or whoever should be allowed to dig up and post here, and that limit, in my opinion, does not allow for her or anyone else to dig up anything personal about me, you, whoever and post it, public information or not.
As for MM, I'm convinced she's guilty as all sin and should be banned, yes. But she's got a right to defend herself against any accusation levied against her as well.
This would require a changing of the current wiki rules, which is fine. But that is besides the fact because if MM is posting publicly avaliable information, even if you don't want it to be there, she is not disobeying any rules or abusing anybody's trust. And if you do change the rules to make that against the rules, you can't convict MM of doing anything wrong, unless she keeps on doing it, because that would be ex post facto.
It doesn't matter if YOU can search for them, Sapphire Tri. Just because it is out there does NOT give you, Magic Mage or anyone else the right to go digging for that information and making it even more available for everyone and their bloody brother to see.
Let me give you an example. Suppose someone were to do a background check on, oh I don't know, we'll say Daffy Duck. Let's also suppose that the information he found out was public information, like court records, and found out Daffy Duck was convicted of two counts possession of marijuana. Should Magic Mage (or whoever) be allowed to post that information? **** no.
I have names and addresses for every person I've traded with in MTGS. Does that mean if I wanted to be vindictive against someone it would be a-okay for me to edit their wiki member entry with all the public information I can find about them?
NO. It would NOT be okay.
That is the underlying issue, in my opinion. Yes, it's public information, but there should be a limit to what MM or whoever should be allowed to dig up and post here, and that limit, in my opinion, does not allow for her or anyone else to dig up anything personal about me, you, whoever and post it, public information or not.
As for MM, I'm convinced she's guilty as all sin and should be banned, yes. But she's got a right to defend herself against any accusation levied against her as well.
Um, if it can be found publicly, it's public information, and therefore technically accessible to anyone who wishes to find it. You can't possibly argue against this at all, public info is public info. If you don't want stuff to be found, don't post it/set your Facebook/Myspace to private.
Now your trading argument is flawed horribly. They confided that information to you only, not the public. The information only gets publicly recorded if they actually try and break the law and steal from you.
Any information That is handed to you AND only you is confidential info and thus releasing THAT info publicly can hold massive negatives to you.
So irebelk using the argument of PRIVATE vs PUBLIC when you can not compare the two in the way you are. What is public right now is Legal. you CAN request it to be removed and if that isn't done then you can raise an issue BUT you also have to raise an issue on WHERE you released this info.
Also add to the subject if the admins decided to change the rules on HOW the wiki is handled MM could only be held responiable for AFTER rules change as there is no rule limits as there never is with Wiki's.
In the end this argument pretty much can be simple...
If you dont want your stupidity recorded onto a public format dont be stupid in a public forum.
A standard of relevance to MTGS seems appropriate here. For instance, there's a link to my defunct Urban Dead profiles on my wiki page. Not exactly a privacy violation, but it is... bizarre.
Though I now note my name and picture have been obscured since the last time I checked the page. (But not beyond the ability of a clever user to find again... :rolleyes:)
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Guardman, not once have I contested the legality of what she is doing. I am, however, contesting whether or not it's right and whether or not the Wiki rules should permit it. It is my opinion that it is not right and should not be permitted.
And yes, I know what ex post facto is.
Opposite, I don't think I can be much clearer here. I know it's public information. I don't believe MM or whoever should be able to go about digging up whatever she can find and putting it here. It has no relevance to this site.
As for the trade argument, I realised I wrote it completely contrary to what I was thinking in my head, but not until anyone quoted it, so for that I apologise. **** happens
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EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Technically if it is publicly available she is allowed to post it, and is perfectly legal to do so and within the MTGS wiki rules, until stated otherwiss. But we are getting back to the argument about what is allowed and what one should post according to modern ideas of morals and ethics.
Legal? Sure. Is it creepy when you go to the wiki and find it's filled with a bunch of private information not at all related to this site that's been posted without your consent? Hell yes!
As a result of this thread, I checked my wiki entry and promptly deleted a bunch of stuff that was either incorrect (where I grew up) or far too personal (like my sister's occupation ..... because that's apparently of relevance to my posting here). Then I heightened the security on my Facebook.
I'm not out for blood, but still. It was disturbing that someone dug around to post personal information about me.
I would have liked very much if I was informed BEFORE a wiki page had been made of me. Is there anyway this could be done?
ANy Info off site should not be accessable... BUT What ever info you make in a public forum tends to be easy to find no matter what. Also Most people get all happy that there is pages about themselves UNTILL they say something or do something stupid and that also gets recorded.
I feel If people do something stupid out in a public forum it should be free game to be recorded on said forum.
Several pieces of information on my page are simply not true, the external links are not me and other information is fairly outdated. Additionally, in general, I don't think advertising public addresses is something we want to do. I'm not upset, after all I can edit any of this at any time. But if this is general practice, it should probably be curtailed.
I don't think that a member needs to messaged before a page for them is created. However, I do think they need to be notified before any major personal information is uploaded.
Telling the person who's page is made about them that there IS a page, I feel, would help everyone.
Also, if there was some way to be told if your wiki page was edited, that would also be helpful. It does not seem like the wiki page is as heavily police as the forums, but I am assuming the same rules apply?
If the person's who wiki page was edited got a PM, he or she could help self police their own page.
I am woundering if there is some automated way to do this, to make less work, not more.
I agree on the false info should not be placed on there at all. but some people tend to see negatives on them and cry ZOMG FALSE... But if the source can be cited on site then I still call it fair game. ALSO in the same respect Some of us *myself included* Have volunteered outside information as we lead public lives that have NO personal hurting info online.
If Magic Mage is the one putting personal information about forum members into their wiki pages, be it facebook, myspace, home address, whatever, then I believe the staff should remove her from the Wiki project effectively immediately and ban her from MTGS. It is a gross abuse of her power and violation of peoples privacy. There is absolutely ZERO justification for it and in no way can we, IMO, have good faith in her abilities and judgement to oversee the Wiki if she's responsible for it.
If she isn't, then whoever is should be banned for it.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
I would like to point out that you don't need to be a MTGS member to join the wiki and edit pages. These edits could be caused by wiki-trolls.
This is also why I made my page and check it at least once a week. It is a good way to make sure your info is just right. But I do support the PM system.
wow, that seems a bit extreme, i mean from what you said here, you would want someone banned for even playing a practical joke between friends, online or off. I mean i can understand the personal things, but if the wiki is fully moderated, then anything not personal should not go through.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
If the Wiki is fully moderated, we wouldn't really be talking about this issue.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
If people didnt post Private information into public places we wouldnt even have this discussion.
then help moderate the wiki, i mean you sure have some extra time if you check a magic the gathering website alot and wish to improve it
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
1. Both Wikipedia and MTGS are fully moderated, but we still discuss the **** that goes down and gets through the system. No amount of moderation is going to stop everyone, especially the most determined of trolls and wiki-trolls.
2. MM can't really tell what info is right or wrong, or if the person doesn't want that info known. She is not a priori as far as I can tell.
3. Things like a wiki require a certain amount of self-moderation by the entire community and not just one person like MM.
If people are stupid enough to post personal information on this site that shouldn't be shared, it is their own fault. Whatever is on this site is fair game.
Myspace, facebook, former blogs, etc, is NOT acceptable. Neither is the posting of addresses.
@ Guardman:
1. I meant moderated in the sense that someone besides Magic Mage is actually watching over it, and someone keeping her in line.
2. Then she has zero business posting that information. If she cannot say with absolute certainty it's acceptable to put up some information about someone, then it should not be posted.
3. Yes, it does.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
Myspace, facebook, former blogs, etc ARE Public as any human being with the ability to do a serch on these sites can and WILL find you on them. Thus the reason they are Social network sites...
Addreases on the other hand is bad BUT you dont know who the hell is posting them.
You seam to have the idea in mind that BAN MM NOW AND DO IT FAST DAMN IT. before you even know if its her, her and others, OR just others doing it.
I agree with Sapphire Tri that Myspace, Facebook, etc. are public information and therefore are acceptable sources for information for a person's wiki page, considering that there is no rule that the only info used in the wiki must be from the user xemself or MTGS.
As to whether or not it is right is an entirely different matter, as it deals with the usage and distribution of publicly avaliable information, which is a touchy subject to say the least. I will only say that it is legal to repost/reprint publicly avaliable information.
It doesn't matter if YOU can search for them, Sapphire Tri. Just because it is out there does NOT give you, Magic Mage or anyone else the right to go digging for that information and making it even more available for everyone and their bloody brother to see.
Let me give you an example. Suppose someone were to do a background check on, oh I don't know, we'll say Daffy Duck. Let's also suppose that the information he found out was public information, like court records, and found out Daffy Duck was convicted of two counts possession of marijuana. Should Magic Mage (or whoever) be allowed to post that information? **** no.
I have names and addresses for every person I've traded with in MTGS. Does that mean if I wanted to be vindictive against someone it would be a-okay for me to edit their wiki member entry with all the public information I can find about them?
NO. It would NOT be okay.
That is the underlying issue, in my opinion. Yes, it's public information, but there should be a limit to what MM or whoever should be allowed to dig up and post here, and that limit, in my opinion, does not allow for her or anyone else to dig up anything personal about me, you, whoever and post it, public information or not.
As for MM, I'm convinced she's guilty as all sin and should be banned, yes. But she's got a right to defend herself against any accusation levied against her as well.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
Technically if it is publicly available she is allowed to post it, and is perfectly legal to do so and within the MTGS wiki rules, until stated otherwiss. But we are getting back to the argument about what is allowed and what one should post according to modern ideas of morals and ethics.
What you just quoted is actually private information, if it was given only to you, or a select group, and only for your own personal use. If xe posted it on MTGS instead of giving it to you personally that would be a different matter as the info is now public.
This would require a changing of the current wiki rules, which is fine. But that is besides the fact because if MM is posting publicly avaliable information, even if you don't want it to be there, she is not disobeying any rules or abusing anybody's trust. And if you do change the rules to make that against the rules, you can't convict MM of doing anything wrong, unless she keeps on doing it, because that would be ex post facto.
Um, if it can be found publicly, it's public information, and therefore technically accessible to anyone who wishes to find it. You can't possibly argue against this at all, public info is public info. If you don't want stuff to be found, don't post it/set your Facebook/Myspace to private.
Now your trading argument is flawed horribly. They confided that information to you only, not the public. The information only gets publicly recorded if they actually try and break the law and steal from you.
So irebelk using the argument of PRIVATE vs PUBLIC when you can not compare the two in the way you are. What is public right now is Legal. you CAN request it to be removed and if that isn't done then you can raise an issue BUT you also have to raise an issue on WHERE you released this info.
Also add to the subject if the admins decided to change the rules on HOW the wiki is handled MM could only be held responiable for AFTER rules change as there is no rule limits as there never is with Wiki's.
In the end this argument pretty much can be simple...
If you dont want your stupidity recorded onto a public format dont be stupid in a public forum.
Though I now note my name and picture have been obscured since the last time I checked the page. (But not beyond the ability of a clever user to find again... :rolleyes:)
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Honestly this is the smartest thing said in this thread so far. This is exactly why you should always know what you are doing online.
And yes, I know what ex post facto is.
Opposite, I don't think I can be much clearer here. I know it's public information. I don't believe MM or whoever should be able to go about digging up whatever she can find and putting it here. It has no relevance to this site.
As for the trade argument, I realised I wrote it completely contrary to what I was thinking in my head, but not until anyone quoted it, so for that I apologise. **** happens
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
Legal? Sure. Is it creepy when you go to the wiki and find it's filled with a bunch of private information not at all related to this site that's been posted without your consent? Hell yes!
As a result of this thread, I checked my wiki entry and promptly deleted a bunch of stuff that was either incorrect (where I grew up) or far too personal (like my sister's occupation ..... because that's apparently of relevance to my posting here). Then I heightened the security on my Facebook.
I'm not out for blood, but still. It was disturbing that someone dug around to post personal information about me.
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