That is exactly what I did not say, actually. If memory serves me correctly, I said this:
That still links common conspiracy theories (Aliens, NWO, etc) with conservatives. That comment makes no sense, other than with the assumption that you view conservatives as having those viewpoints.
That still links common conspiracy theories (Aliens, NWO, etc) with conservatives. That comment makes no sense, other than with the assumption that you view conservatives as having those viewpoints.
Right, it links them, in that I'm implying the exact opposite of what you're saying because they're nothing alike. I'm not saying that conservatives should be banned, as opposed to conspiracy theorists.
Many of those on welfare in america just need the extra push to be someone, while helping starving Biafrin not starve just perpetuates another random life that can't do what somebody with a good US high-school education can. I'd rather help Joe Bloe get into college and do something with his life than help a starving Kenyan keep ****ing his wife and popping out starving babies that need more of our money.
If someone's crazy, you can put them on the ignore list because they'll never have anything useful to say. Most people will also be readily able to identify them as such, so won't respond to their gibbering.
Then in light of your combative conduct in other threads, I submit that your permaban should follow within 24 hours.
A loony, as I've said, doesn't spawn much of a conversation of any kind. A flamer can take a good conversation and ruin it.
Your view of forum posters is an extremely optimistic one. Crazy people will always make the discussion about themselves, and their beliefs. If someone comes into a politics thread and brings up the illuminati, there's no way everyone is just going to ignore it and move on.
I'm rather confused that you're rallying for my permaban. Could you elaborate, please? The two infractions I have are for responding to a troll, and opening a post explaining logic terminology with "drop some education on you fools." If you believe I should be banned, well, I'd imagine you'd have to revise the rules a fair bit first.
I am not suggesting that anyone should be able to pop into a good conversation and insult people. That's obviously bad. All I'm lobbying for is some understanding from the mods for insulting people who, themselves, are not contributing to the conversation. I don't want to be misunderstood on that. No changes to the official forum rules, but simply less of a zero-tolerance policy.
Many of those on welfare in america just need the extra push to be someone, while helping starving Biafrin not starve just perpetuates another random life that can't do what somebody with a good US high-school education can. I'd rather help Joe Bloe get into college and do something with his life than help a starving Kenyan keep ****ing his wife and popping out starving babies that need more of our money.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Many of those on welfare in america just need the extra push to be someone, while helping starving Biafrin not starve just perpetuates another random life that can't do what somebody with a good US high-school education can. I'd rather help Joe Bloe get into college and do something with his life than help a starving Kenyan keep ****ing his wife and popping out starving babies that need more of our money.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Flaming is not tolerated. Disagreement with an idea is one thing- but hate the idea, hate the belief- don't hate the person who holds it.
My argument is that when a belief is outside the realm of discussion to the point of ridicule, it is necessary and oftentimes desirable for the argument to spill over onto the person. What we have now is a policy where any sort of insult- any at all- is punishable, when I maintain it can be sometimes justified.
Many of those on welfare in america just need the extra push to be someone, while helping starving Biafrin not starve just perpetuates another random life that can't do what somebody with a good US high-school education can. I'd rather help Joe Bloe get into college and do something with his life than help a starving Kenyan keep ****ing his wife and popping out starving babies that need more of our money.
I have generally held to the custom that it is perfectly fine to call an idea "retarded", "screwy", or other things, as long as you explain your reasoning behind why you feel that way.
In my opinion, there is never a reason to mount a personal attack upon another person no matter what they believe, no matter how distasteful their views are, and no matter how much you just plain think they're nuts.
Resorting to personal attacks shows nothing more than that you have run out of logical arguments; you are now relying upon emotion to prove a point, in which case the original idea has been corrupted.
If it is your belief that a discussion has gone beyond the realms of possibility, report it to the appropriate moderator. If you get no response, report it to an admin. It is not your place to judge, as you stated earlier; it's the mod's job.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
Quote from Yukora »
This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
Quote from RedDwarfian »
Yes mistress...
Quote from About epic-level D&D »
There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
Quote from Concerning breeding habits of humans in fantasy games »
I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
If it is your belief that a discussion has gone beyond the realms of possibility, report it to the appropriate moderator. If you get no response, report it to an admin. It is not your place to judge, as you stated earlier; it's the mod's job.
I have yet to see this ever happen. In debate, someone made a thread about Zeitgeist and nothing happened to them.
Many of those on welfare in america just need the extra push to be someone, while helping starving Biafrin not starve just perpetuates another random life that can't do what somebody with a good US high-school education can. I'd rather help Joe Bloe get into college and do something with his life than help a starving Kenyan keep ****ing his wife and popping out starving babies that need more of our money.
Resorting to personal attacks shows nothing more than that you have run out of logical arguments; you are now relying upon emotion to prove a point, in which case the original idea has been corrupted.
One problem I've always had with the rules on flaming is that they never took into account who the person was flaming, why, or what the surrounding content was. A good example would be, a long time ago, someone posted a thread about how they saw aliens that stole their thoughts and all that, and someone (kingcobweb maybe?) got an infraction for a very long, detailed post about why he was crazy. In an ideal world, the person who posted the thread would have been immediately banned for being completely insane.
KCW was very cruel to the original poster in that thread, and I, in a good-natured attempt at satire, tried to soften the situation, which ended up getting me slapped with an infraction for "Flaming or other forms of misbehavior" by Nex3. View that post here.
I never received a warning prior to that or anything, just BAM! INFRACTION!
I pretty much avoided any forums that Nex3 moderated after that point out of fear of my sardonic sense of humor being misconstrued as being derisive or inflammatory.
Yes, it is.
You really have to steer clear of the heavily moderated areas to avoid getting infracted. Posting in a thread like this just lowers your life expectancy here on MTGS.
Quote from Jedit »
"They're disrupting the forums - why won't you let me do it too?"
I suggest you stop posting on this subject while it's still optional, Paffim.
So he's flaming and you're backseat modding.
And so am I.
No, I'm not. Backseat modding is when you tell people what they can and cannot do. I advised Paffim (AKA kingcobweb, and good riddance) that if he didn't stop what he was doing then someone would stop it for him, but I never claimed or implied that it was me who would do the stopping.
Backseat Modding
If you see a post or thread that breaks the rules, hit the button. Don't lecture the person about their broken rule, don't say "This thread should be moved to ____," just report the post and be done with it.
No mention of your distinction between telling people what they "would be well advised to do" and what they "can and cannot do," nor is there any mention of you needing to claim any power for yourself to backseat mod. You certainly were lecturing KCW and threatening him by reminding him that his actions could get him in trouble.
Telling someone what the rules are, telling them they are breaking the rules, telling them they should or shouldn't do X, ought or oughtn't do X, can or can't do X, lecturing them, advising them, or interpreting the rules are all backseat modding using a reasonable interpretation of the above quote of the forum rules.
It's a necessary rule, but it is worded incredibly broadly.
If you see a post or thread that breaks the rules, hit the button. Don't lecture the person about their broken rule, don't say "This thread should be moved to ____," just report the post and be done with it.
No mention of your distinction between telling people what they "would be well advised to do" and what they "can and cannot do," nor is there any mention of you needing to claim any power for yourself to backseat mod. You certainly were lecturing KCW and threatening him by reminding him that his actions could get him in trouble.
Telling someone what the rules are, telling them they are breaking the rules, telling them they should or shouldn't do X, ought or oughtn't do X, can or can't do X, lecturing them, advising them, or interpreting the rules are all backseat modding using a reasonable interpretation of the above quote of the forum rules.
It's a necessary rule, but it is worded incredibly broadly.
why didn't you just report his post for backseat modding?
Hm... I've never thought that these forums were overly strict. I mean, the rules are very rigorously enforced -- good for civility, I say -- but the punishments that I've seen meted out have all seemed proportional. There was a certain person who was continually flaming and trolling in religiously-themed threads, and he got warnings, and infractions, and then got suspended for a week or two; then he came back with more of the same, and got a suspension of three months; and now he's back and appears to have finally learned his lesson. Well, good. The more the merrier, as long as we can all play nice.
No warnings or infractions for me since I've been here; but maybe it's 'cuz I'm such a nice sweet little man-panda.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Love. Forgive. Trust. Be willing to be broken that you may be remade.
You posted in the Jace Beleren thread in Artwork on 11th February. The previous post was November 14th. In the intervening time, no less than 31 other threads had posts made in them. There is no way in hell that thread was fourth from the top of the front page when you posted in it.
Well it wasn't on the 2nd page or the bottom of the first so the simple point stands that people will assume that in a forum as busy as this one, that if a thread is on the first page, then it probably isn't 3 months old.
I will say that if you have been here long enough or are a moderator, then yes; it seems perfectly logical that everyone should be reasonable enough to be able to glance at the date of the last post.
Despite this, every forum isn't as ridiculous as this one and most people wouldn't feel a need whatsoever to look at the date of a thread on the first page. If a forum is busy enough to have a decent number of moderators then one could generally safely assume that a 3 month old post would not be on the front page. If a forum was not as busy, then most likely there would not be as strict of rule enforcement as there is here.
I may be off on saying that the post was 4th from the top as that was an estimate; however, I know for certain that it was on the first page and not dangling at the bottom.
I have to say that these forums are spectacularly clean of all the things I hate about forums. I have gotten a warning once, but I clearly deserved it. I'm fine with keeping what I write cleaner as long as there isn't the forum rat with a broken caps lock key.
I say, hats off to the moderators, for keeping the forum a reletively intelligent place!
I don't see a problem with the way things are run here. I think the rules are fair, and if you can't be bothered to take the time to read them you probably shouldn't be here in the first place.
I think it could be even stricter, as far as spelling and grammar goes. But I don't make the rules.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I know it seems that I don't care, but something in me does I swear.
[gaymers]
founder of the MTGS Forum Pirates
'tar/banner by R&Doom.
Well considering, I've been here since 5 o'clock, and didn't get a locked,moved thread, a deleted post, or a warning for no reason, I've seen stricter, infact so strict, it could be considered abuse of power, but what can you do, when most of the people moderating the forums, are also the game admins. You get on a admins hit list, and they'll not only ban you from the forums, but from the game as well ouch(It's an online game, with no multiplayer, so aside from actually coding the game, they have nothing better to do then to start trouble).
Well it wasn't on the 2nd page or the bottom of the first so the simple point stands that people will assume that in a forum as busy as this one, that if a thread is on the first page, then it probably isn't 3 months old.
I will say that if you have been here long enough or are a moderator, then yes; it seems perfectly logical that everyone should be reasonable enough to be able to glance at the date of the last post.
Despite this, every forum isn't as ridiculous as this one and most people wouldn't feel a need whatsoever to look at the date of a thread on the first page. If a forum is busy enough to have a decent number of moderators then one could generally safely assume that a 3 month old post would not be on the front page. If a forum was not as busy, then most likely there would not be as strict of rule enforcement as there is here.
I may be off on saying that the post was 4th from the top as that was an estimate; however, I know for certain that it was on the first page and not dangling at the bottom.
The thing is, I think necroing served a pupose at some point - to stop attacks on the forum done for disruptive purposes. Right now there are just too many different subforums with wildly varying policies or wildly varying moderator philosophies on what constitutes a necrobump. Not to mention that it's incredibly easy to do on accident - so it's best to just not post in subforums you aren't familiar with.
I'll admit that the rules are a bit strict in MTGSalvation but it's still bettter than some forums where the rules aren't enforced at all. It's not the flaming I mind but some forums get really annoying when there are a million different spam threads titled things like, "haha".
Also, the rules make for a more intellectual (and somewhat prententious) community. So some people will love this forum site and others will hate it. For the avarage poster who makes one sentence posts, they are often intimidated and driven from the site. A smarter community isn't really an advantage or disadvantage but it's nice to have some variety. I mean, it'd be boring if all forums were the same. I go to CollegeConfidential sometimes and those people are, surprising, not smart at all.
And BTW, I don't believe you can be infractured for spam in "Speak your Mind". Maybe I'm wrong but whatever... Most of the infratures in this part of the forum go to the people who speak their mind a bit too boldly.
And BTW, I don't believe you can be infractured for spam in "Speak your Mind". Maybe I'm wrong but whatever... Most of the infratures in this part of the forum go to the people who speak their mind a bit too boldly.
qft.
...
^--- If that's all I posted, it would be spam. I was tempted to leave that as it was so one of the mods could warn/mock-warn it for spam, but nah, it's more useful to actually state my point.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
I have to say, since I do more than my fair share of speaking up against the powers that be that we don't have vindictive or petty staff. They are little stricter than they need to be but they are not totalitarian, and the forums here are orderly and inoffensive. While still allowing for a wide variety of places to hang out with different feels and expectations for what you'll see. MTGS, at its best, is a microcosm of a well-ordered internet.
The only issue I think is that because of the wide variety of subforums and different standards of each of those circles, it can be tough to keep track of all of the different measures of what's appropriate where.
Do I think the mods here are strict? Maybe a little...but as was mentioned, with pretty good reason. Handling even small forums can be like herding cats. Unless you get a firm handle on things, it can get out of control pretty quickly. This forums is, frankly, massive. Do I feel the mods are unfair? Absolutely not. Anything they have a rule for, it's there for a reason, usually either to keep the forums rolling smoothly, or to keep things newbie friendly. Honestly, I feel they deserve praise, not scorn, in this matter.
I feel it is SLIGHTLY too strict as I have seen topic creators get infractions/warnings/locked threads because of something someone else did. Why not just hide the post? I've never seen that been done.
I feel a bit scared of this forum, to be honest. It's too set out and to make it feel less strict, the humour section could spread out a bit instead of having it all piled up into one place. Like the warning some dude got for posting about cutting decks with a knife... Why did he have to put that in humour? No humour in threads at all makes them feel a bit bleak. In my opinion, as I have been mods on like, 3 other sites, the spam warnings should only be given if they contribute NOTHING to the topic at all. A little joke is fine but when it goes really bad, like... "I don't care, now learn the internetzorz" or something like that then the infraction is good in that case.
That still links common conspiracy theories (Aliens, NWO, etc) with conservatives. That comment makes no sense, other than with the assumption that you view conservatives as having those viewpoints.
EDH:
UBGThe MimeoplasmUBG
Right, it links them, in that I'm implying the exact opposite of what you're saying because they're nothing alike. I'm not saying that conservatives should be banned, as opposed to conspiracy theorists.
Get it?
Your view of forum posters is an extremely optimistic one. Crazy people will always make the discussion about themselves, and their beliefs. If someone comes into a politics thread and brings up the illuminati, there's no way everyone is just going to ignore it and move on.
I'm rather confused that you're rallying for my permaban. Could you elaborate, please? The two infractions I have are for responding to a troll, and opening a post explaining logic terminology with "drop some education on you fools." If you believe I should be banned, well, I'd imagine you'd have to revise the rules a fair bit first.
I am not suggesting that anyone should be able to pop into a good conversation and insult people. That's obviously bad. All I'm lobbying for is some understanding from the mods for insulting people who, themselves, are not contributing to the conversation. I don't want to be misunderstood on that. No changes to the official forum rules, but simply less of a zero-tolerance policy.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
The person moderating.
Flaming is not tolerated. Disagreement with an idea is one thing- but hate the idea, hate the belief- don't hate the person who holds it.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
My argument is that when a belief is outside the realm of discussion to the point of ridicule, it is necessary and oftentimes desirable for the argument to spill over onto the person. What we have now is a policy where any sort of insult- any at all- is punishable, when I maintain it can be sometimes justified.
In my opinion, there is never a reason to mount a personal attack upon another person no matter what they believe, no matter how distasteful their views are, and no matter how much you just plain think they're nuts.
Resorting to personal attacks shows nothing more than that you have run out of logical arguments; you are now relying upon emotion to prove a point, in which case the original idea has been corrupted.
If it is your belief that a discussion has gone beyond the realms of possibility, report it to the appropriate moderator. If you get no response, report it to an admin. It is not your place to judge, as you stated earlier; it's the mod's job.
"I am in the arcane, and the arcane is in me."
Official Matron Mother of Clan Planar Chaos
Awesome Avatar and signature by DarkNightCavalier
Deraxas, Dark Maiden of Shimia,, still oddly obsessed with a mindmage.
I have yet to see this ever happen. In debate, someone made a thread about Zeitgeist and nothing happened to them.
Really?
KCW was very cruel to the original poster in that thread, and I, in a good-natured attempt at satire, tried to soften the situation, which ended up getting me slapped with an infraction for "Flaming or other forms of misbehavior" by Nex3.
View that post here.
I never received a warning prior to that or anything, just BAM! INFRACTION!
I pretty much avoided any forums that Nex3 moderated after that point out of fear of my sardonic sense of humor being misconstrued as being derisive or inflammatory.
Yes, it is.
You really have to steer clear of the heavily moderated areas to avoid getting infracted. Posting in a thread like this just lowers your life expectancy here on MTGS.
So he's flaming and you're backseat modding.
And so am I.
For the good of the Forums: Warnings all around!
Telling someone what the rules are, telling them they are breaking the rules, telling them they should or shouldn't do X, ought or oughtn't do X, can or can't do X, lecturing them, advising them, or interpreting the rules are all backseat modding using a reasonable interpretation of the above quote of the forum rules.
It's a necessary rule, but it is worded incredibly broadly.
why didn't you just report his post for backseat modding?
No warnings or infractions for me since I've been here; but maybe it's 'cuz I'm such a nice sweet little man-panda.
Well it wasn't on the 2nd page or the bottom of the first so the simple point stands that people will assume that in a forum as busy as this one, that if a thread is on the first page, then it probably isn't 3 months old.
I will say that if you have been here long enough or are a moderator, then yes; it seems perfectly logical that everyone should be reasonable enough to be able to glance at the date of the last post.
Despite this, every forum isn't as ridiculous as this one and most people wouldn't feel a need whatsoever to look at the date of a thread on the first page. If a forum is busy enough to have a decent number of moderators then one could generally safely assume that a 3 month old post would not be on the front page. If a forum was not as busy, then most likely there would not be as strict of rule enforcement as there is here.
I may be off on saying that the post was 4th from the top as that was an estimate; however, I know for certain that it was on the first page and not dangling at the bottom.
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I say, hats off to the moderators, for keeping the forum a reletively intelligent place!
I think it could be even stricter, as far as spelling and grammar goes. But I don't make the rules.
I know it seems that I don't care,
but something in me does I swear.
[gaymers]
founder of the MTGS Forum Pirates
'tar/banner by R&Doom.
To point out how broadly written the rule is.
The thing is, I think necroing served a pupose at some point - to stop attacks on the forum done for disruptive purposes. Right now there are just too many different subforums with wildly varying policies or wildly varying moderator philosophies on what constitutes a necrobump. Not to mention that it's incredibly easy to do on accident - so it's best to just not post in subforums you aren't familiar with.
Also, the rules make for a more intellectual (and somewhat prententious) community. So some people will love this forum site and others will hate it. For the avarage poster who makes one sentence posts, they are often intimidated and driven from the site. A smarter community isn't really an advantage or disadvantage but it's nice to have some variety. I mean, it'd be boring if all forums were the same. I go to CollegeConfidential sometimes and those people are, surprising, not smart at all.
And BTW, I don't believe you can be infractured for spam in "Speak your Mind". Maybe I'm wrong but whatever... Most of the infratures in this part of the forum go to the people who speak their mind a bit too boldly.
qft.
...
^--- If that's all I posted, it would be spam. I was tempted to leave that as it was so one of the mods could warn/mock-warn it for spam, but nah, it's more useful to actually state my point.
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
The only issue I think is that because of the wide variety of subforums and different standards of each of those circles, it can be tough to keep track of all of the different measures of what's appropriate where.
The creator of Maro's Magic 8-Ball!
I feel a bit scared of this forum, to be honest. It's too set out and to make it feel less strict, the humour section could spread out a bit instead of having it all piled up into one place. Like the warning some dude got for posting about cutting decks with a knife... Why did he have to put that in humour? No humour in threads at all makes them feel a bit bleak. In my opinion, as I have been mods on like, 3 other sites, the spam warnings should only be given if they contribute NOTHING to the topic at all. A little joke is fine but when it goes really bad, like... "I don't care, now learn the internetzorz" or something like that then the infraction is good in that case.
I just can't see much happyness around, is all.
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