Calling people names is never acceptable. I'd like to think that most people would know this. There are far better ways to get a point across than simply resorting to namecalling. Note that it was an informal warning, no official record was made.
I didn't have to do that, you know. Then again, maybe I'm going soft in my old age.
At any rate, if you're trying to get people to see your point of view, back it up with fact rather than accusations. I have no issue with you having a problem with the mods; discuss that all you want, in a reasonable (read: productive) manner.
And yes, no incantatrix for you. Or anyone. That class makes puppies cry. Mostly because they are the former Big Bads who have been Baleful Polymorphed into said puppies. By you. Because you're an incantatrix.
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This is Deraxas we're talking about.
Remember, the girl that just killed an aspect of herself before literally consuming her?
Yeah, I don't see her handling a pissing match in any way other than a duel.
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Yes mistress...
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There are only so many epic, psuedonatural barbarian/blackguard half-dragon akutenshai vampire balor paragons they can throw at you, right?
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I suppose it's true. Though the logistics implied in a human/Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon pairing makes me shudder.
...Something tells me that even should all arcane casters in the world unite, that the Grease spell would NOT be sufficient.
Besides users not using cardtags at all, I've found users do new things to defeat the use of cardtags, such as adding a space after the card (e.g., Lightning Bolt ) or misspelling the name of the card (e.g., Wort, the Raid Mother). Yeah, they're innocent mistakes, but they aren't really report worthy. Because I can't say anything, the mistakes continue to be repeated, much to my frustration when the "this card cannot be found" box comes up on Gatherer. What is the proper way to handle this?
I agree those kind of card links are very annoying. A big part of the problem seems to be Gatherer though. WotC doesn't seem to be trying to improve it at all, even though it has numerous issues. Spaces at the end or beginning of names is such an easy to fix problem it should have been done ages ago. As for misspellings or the use of card nicknames, I've seen other Magic search engines that offer "best guess" matches (search for "BOP" on http://magiccards.info/ for example). I figure the official site should be able to do something similar. By the way, you can change your card window options to use MagicCard.info in your user control panel if Gatherer isn't to your liking.
Now to the topic at hand, I'll just say that this forum is by far my favorite. I've been to several different sites for different topics and none have been near as good as this one. And a major reason for that is because of how "strict" this place is. Keep up the good work mods!
You edited my post in a "Speak Your Mind" forum about mods being too strict. Even I didn't think things were that bad. It's time for me to take my own advice.
"Speak your mind" doesnt translate into "pick a fight"....
Well, my way only works if both parties are willing to work constuctivly off course. You're right that this wouldn't work if he refuses to listen to reason.
Unless you're psychic, you can't tell whether the user will listen to what you say, or just whine "why should I do that?" or "just learn the cards you stupid n00b" (I've seen people saying both on a certain other message board.)
Besides, it's less effort to report the post - make it easier on yourself and let the mods handle problems. (Any problems anywhere, not just the tags of doom.)
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
Honestly I don't like how strict this forum is, but I'm also one of those people who thinks hate speech should be protected, so go figure.
I think I only ever had one warning (from mikey) and if I recall correctly he rescinded it after I IMed him about it and pointed out that he hadn't read the whole post, so I'm not going to rant about the mods being imperialistic or anything. And I'm not going to say they don't have a sense of humor either, I used to read the "who is currently banned" thread (or whatever that's called) ever time it was updated because it was awesome.
My problem with the strictness of this forum basically breaks down into two things.
1. Span warnings. Seriously (pun intended) I think they get overused. Quoting a post to agree with it, "quoted for savage truthery", "Sarnathed", and the rest, may not contribute much (though honestly I thing agreement posts are very helpful in deck archetype threads) but they're arent much of an annoyance either. Is it really that hard to scroll past a few lines of text?
2. Flame warnings. Okay, this one's a little weird I'll admit. But I "grew up" in internet terms on a forum that did nothing to prevent flame wars. And I mean full-out, you've-never-seen-a-thing-like-this flame wars. I think it really helped the community to be more open and honest and come together, and not repress so much anger that leads to really issues. Considering the stuff you can get flame warnings for around here, it's basically day and night.
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I think I only ever had one warning (from mikey) and if I recall correctly he rescinded it after I IMed him about it and pointed out that he hadn't read the whole post
No, you've never received a warning, not from me or anybody else. I don't even know what you're talking about.
Im of the opposite opinion. Personally i dont think things are strict enough here.
But then i don't make the rules and am using the site at my own perogative.. That i'd prefer a higher level of analysis and theory over alot of the (what i consider) usless posting is irrelevent, so i make do with whats available.
for reference www.elitistjerks.com would be ideal for me... if it was about mtg (its not).
The moderataion there is extremely strict.. and also partially enforced by the community but its taken alot of time and effort from the people that run it to get to that level.
Life's like that.. you end up making do with whats available rather than what would be "ideal".
(please note this is NOT a critic of the moderation policies here, just the expression of a personal opinion).
I frequent the jerks too, and I will say some areas of the board are not really moderated at all (they actually don't have to be, see Benefactors Bar). Also note that Elitist Jerks have a generally older poster-base on average, and an emphasis on hard data when theorycrafting. This forum shouldn't be quite as strict as EJ, and probably cannot be as strict as EJ, simply due to the massive number of grammar infractions mods would have to give out.
1. Span warnings. Seriously (pun intended) I think they get overused. Quoting a post to agree with it, "quoted for savage truthery", "Sarnathed", and the rest, may not contribute much (though honestly I thing agreement posts are very helpful in deck archetype threads) but they're arent much of an annoyance either. Is it really that hard to scroll past a few lines of text?
2. Flame warnings. Okay, this one's a little weird I'll admit. But I "grew up" in internet terms on a forum that did nothing to prevent flame wars. And I mean full-out, you've-never-seen-a-thing-like-this flame wars. I think it really helped the community to be more open and honest and come together, and not repress so much anger that leads to really issues. Considering the stuff you can get flame warnings for around here, it's basically day and night.
1. They do have polls to see who agrees with what if you're interested in that kind of thing. The spam issue varies some from forum to forum. I know in the rulings thread the big problem seems to be wanting to go off on tangents, and I can see how that would be a problem. A discussion of the clash ability could easily devolve into the history of CIP abilities if you let it.
2. As far as the flames go, what possible point do they serve. I've been involved in an incredibly long, drawn out argument obver health care in the debate thread, but it's actually been, I think, fairly productive. If it had turned into a name calling contest then I would not have gained as clear an undertsanding of the opposing view. If you're into to that kind of stuff check out the forum games.
I agree that these forums are a bit over the top on enforcing the rules. It seems as though certain mods simply enjoy the power they have and get some sort of joy out of using it.
In comparison to any other forums I have ever been on, this one is at least twice as strict as any others.
I received 2 infractions within the first month or so I was here.
1 was from necroing. I was just surfing the boards and there was a thread that was on the front page and it was about the 4th thread from the top. The heading caught my eye, I read the other posts and simply desired to make an intelligent comment to further the discussion when I almost immediately received an infraction. It was laughable.
The 2nd was from illegal bumping of my trade thread. The 1 bump per 24 hours is a great rule and it is perfectly logical. I have been trading online on other forums for quite some time and they all have the same logical rules. Anyway, being kind of a night owl, I had bumped my thread at 3 or 4am. I was out late, got home, got on the computer for a bit, and bumped my thread before going to bed. The next night I didn't have as much to do. I was just surfin the net and my thread had gone off the front page. It was like somewhere between 10-11pm and I bumped my thread for the night. The next day I received another infraction for illegal bumping.
Now this is absolutely ridiculous. I know I am not in some small portion of the population that regards 3am as night instead of morning. I'm also not going to sit at home and make sure at least 24 hours has past to bump my thread when I won't be bumping again till the next night anyway.
Seeing that you have received an infraction immediately for something so small is extremely annoying. I think it is good that people take time from their lives to help out the forums; however, sometimes the mods need to give it a rest on the power trips. It is like we are getting tickets for jaywalking around here.
Now this is absolutely ridiculous. I know I am not in some small portion of the population that regards 3am as night instead of morning. I'm also not going to sit at home and make sure at least 24 hours has past to bump my thread when I won't be bumping again till the next night anyway.
...so get an infraction. Honestly, you can draw the line anywhere, but on this forum the rule is 24 hours. Not 18, not 20. 24. Otherwise, the excuse will always be exactly this. It is not difficult to look at your last bump and see when you made your last post.
1 was from necroing. I was just surfing the boards and there was a thread that was on the front page and it was about the 4th thread from the top. The heading caught my eye, I read the other posts and simply desired to make an intelligent comment to further the discussion when I almost immediately received an infraction. It was laughable.
Could you link to it? I'd like to see what the fuss & muss was about.
The 2nd was from illegal bumping of my trade thread. The 1 bump per 24 hours is a great rule and it is perfectly logical. I have been trading online on other forums for quite some time and they all have the same logical rules. Anyway, being kind of a night owl, I had bumped my thread at 3 or 4am. I was out late, got home, got on the computer for a bit, and bumped my thread before going to bed. The next night I didn't have as much to do. I was just surfin the net and my thread had gone off the front page. It was like somewhere between 10-11pm and I bumped my thread for the night. The next day I received another infraction for illegal bumping.
Now this is absolutely ridiculous. I know I am not in some small portion of the population that regards 3am as night instead of morning. I'm also not going to sit at home and make sure at least 24 hours has past to bump my thread when I won't be bumping again till the next night anyway.
I'm confused. You start off by supporting the "one bump per 24 hours" rule only to turn around and say it doesn't make sense? If the mods start making exceptions for one person, they gotta make an exception for everyone. Your argument is equivalent to this:
"Officer, I understand that the legal Blood Alcohol Limit is 0.08%... but come on! My BAL is only 0.0825%! Can't you just let this one go?"
And it's not like it was an emergency or anything. So what? You have to wait a few hours (or God forbid, another entire day!!) to bump your thread. The world won't fall apart if your thread isn't at the top of the standings.
It is like we are getting tickets for jaywalking around here.
When you're jaywalking across a freeway with 30,000 cars, you'll probably get a ticket too.
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I'm confused. You start off by supporting the "one bump per 24 hours" rule only to turn around and say it doesn't make sense? If the mods start making exceptions for one person, they gotta make an exception for everyone. Your argument is equivalent to this:
"Officer, I understand that the legal Blood Alcohol Limit is 0.08%... but come on! My BAL is only 0.0825%! Can't you just let this one go?"
I never said the rule did not make sense. The rule is there so that everyone can have their thread in the spotlight for a certain amount of time. When people clearly are not following the rule (generally because they don't know), it is very obvious because they are posting in 4 hour time periods. When people post after 20-23 hours have past, most likely:
1. It isn't an every day occurance
2. It doesn't have the same effect of someone posting like 3 times in an 8 hour time frame.
I'm not saying that I should be able to do whatever I want and that I should be the exception to all the rules. It is that kind of logic that instantly turns something very small into something very big and important. Such logic is like saying, well obviously if they let you get away with bumping your thread again after waiting only 22 hours, then the entire forum would turn to chaos. People would then assume that it is ok to bump whenever they want and would begin to bump their thread every 2 hours, while going to other threads and spamming up a storm assuming that clearly the rules are not being upheld.
And it's not like it was an emergency or anything. So what? You have to wait a few hours (or God forbid, another entire day!!) to bump your thread. The world won't fall apart if your thread isn't at the top of the standings.
Of course it wasn't an emergency. None of the posts on this entire forum are ever that important to where they must be posted at any particular moment.
It wasn't an issue of me having to wait a few more hours, as I would have waited a few hours if I was not going to be in bed by then. I could have waited another day; however, the reason why anyone would want to bump their thread once a day would probably be because they need cards in a timely fashion. I would be busy during the day so I would lose an entire day theoretically from members seeing my trade thread and would therefore lose another day of attempting to receive cards by the desired time. I rarely look past the first page and I would assume the story is the same with others.
This sounds a bit dramatic - i know. It wasn't absolutely necessary to miss 1 day. Regardless, the point is that me posting at 21hours instead of 24 hours does not really display the typical poster who has no regard for the rules and therefore, it seems rash and rather strict to go straight to issuing an infraction.
When you're jaywalking across a freeway with 30,000 cars, you'll probably get a ticket too.
I see where you are trying to go with this analogy; however this is simply another example of logic that blows the issue out of proportion. I'm not sure that someone posting at the 21st hour instead of waiting till the 24th is quite as dangerous to anyone as jaywalking across a freeway with 30,000 cars.
Regardless, the point is that me posting at 21hours instead of 24 hours does not really display the typical poster who has no regard for the rules and therefore, it seems rash and rather strict to go straight to issuing an infraction.
Propose an alternative standard that is more fair than the simple, obvious, and objective 24 hour standard, please.
Propose an alternative standard that is more fair than the simple, obvious, and objective 24 hour standard, please.
The 24 hour rule is perfectly fine, but I think moderators should exercise some level of higher judgement. We give them authority under the assumption that they are perfectly deserving of it; not just because they can read rules and issue infractions, but because they should be able to hold a higher level of thought process. We all like to think of moderators being above robots issueing out infractions left and right every time someone steps over the line to any degree. I suppose that since it isn't like they are paid to do anything then it is basically an environment of, 'if you don't like it then you can leave', which I find sad. It is unfortunate that some mods here just take up the part of the "cop on his first day", going strictly by the book to avoid any possible mistakes because they are just trying to do what they were told, while ignoring common decency to the fellow member who inadvertently made a mistake.
I'm not trying to lump every mod in the same boat as a lot of mods here are fantastic. It would be the same as a mod or fellow member lumping any member who has received an infraction as just being some winner who wasn't intelligent enough to read the rules that everyone else is somehow able to follow perfectly fine.
regardless, I got an infraction for doing the same thing. It was about some contest they had and someone In the thread linked to another thread so I made a reply in the linked thread thinking it was still active. I dont really feel like I have to check the last post date in a thread, I assume if it isnt still active no one would actually link it. idk, but yeah, infraction.
regardless, I got an infraction warning for doing the same thing .... idk, but yeah, infraction warning.
Fixed.
A warning is a fair bit different from an infraction and the staff rarely if ever hands out an infraction on the first offense.
I feel that it's not too much to ask that posters use a bit of common sense prior to posting. If a thread has been inactive for months (and no, it's not unreasonable to expect one to take the second or two it takes to make note of the last posting date), it shouldn't be difficult to think about whether your necro is justified.
One problem I've always had with the rules on flaming is that they never took into account who the person was flaming, why, or what the surrounding content was. A good example would be, a long time ago, someone posted a thread about how they saw aliens that stole their thoughts and all that, and someone (kingcobweb maybe?) got an infraction for a very long, detailed post about why he was crazy. In an ideal world, the person who posted the thread would have been immediately banned for being completely insane.
Many of those on welfare in america just need the extra push to be someone, while helping starving Biafrin not starve just perpetuates another random life that can't do what somebody with a good US high-school education can. I'd rather help Joe Bloe get into college and do something with his life than help a starving Kenyan keep ****ing his wife and popping out starving babies that need more of our money.
Being insane (or in this case, a Scientologist) is not a problem, so long as it doesn't disrupt the forums. Flaming always disrupts the forums, because it is a disruption of the forums.
I couldn't disagree more. I see genuinely crazy people as a disruption of the forums, by their very nature of it being impossible to have a real discussion when they're around. People of the tinfoil hat variety should be banned on the spot if they spout their nonsense. I don't understand why flaming is inherently a disruption of the forums.
Many of those on welfare in america just need the extra push to be someone, while helping starving Biafrin not starve just perpetuates another random life that can't do what somebody with a good US high-school education can. I'd rather help Joe Bloe get into college and do something with his life than help a starving Kenyan keep ****ing his wife and popping out starving babies that need more of our money.
Unless you're a licensed psychologist or therapist, I don't think it should be up to anyone on this forum to denounce someone as crazy. Especially over a religion they have chosen to guide their life. Put in simplest terms, thinking of life as guided by aliens and the like is no crazier than thinking life is guided by an all powerful invisible man.
Consider any discussion you've ever had. If someone starts attacking someone else, does the discussion continue in the same manner that it had previous to the attack? If tempers rise, does the conversation continue to be productive? When people are insulting each other back and forth, doesn't someone normally step in to try to stop the problem?
In general, flames seem to follow the 'one good turn deserves another'. If someone attacks someone else, the second person usually wants to fight back, and then we just have name calling instead of a good conversation. Thus, the flaming is disruptive.
What I've really never seen is a good argument as for why flaming -should- be allowed on the forums.
Unless you're a licensed psychologist or therapist, I don't think it should be up to anyone on this forum to denounce someone as crazy. Especially over a religion they have chosen to guide their life. Put in simplest terms, thinking of life as guided by aliens and the like is no crazier than thinking life is guided by an all powerful invisible man.
Consider any discussion you've ever had. If someone starts attacking someone else, does the discussion continue in the same manner that it had previous to the attack? If tempers rise, does the conversation continue to be productive? When people are insulting each other back and forth, doesn't someone normally step in to try to stop the problem?
In general, flames seem to follow the 'one good turn deserves another'. If someone attacks someone else, the second person usually wants to fight back, and then we just have name calling instead of a good conversation. Thus, the flaming is disruptive.
What I've really never seen is a good argument as for why flaming -should- be allowed on the forums.
I didn't say anything about a person's religion. But if we get someone who claims aliens are trying to steal their thoughts, or that a secret shadow government is trying to implement a New World Order, or if someone talks about dressing up in animal costumes and doing disgusting things to anthropomorphic creatures, or whatever, I will denounce them as crazy in the head-place.
You can't value every argument equally, and neither should mods. I'm not saying that conservatives need to be banned, or whatever, but common sense needs to be used with people who are wearing tinfoil hats. There's a difference between people calling each other stupid in an argument over the war in Iraq (bad) and telling a crazy person they're crazy (good). As I said, it is impossible to have an intellectual, informed discussion with these people, and these sorts of discussions should be the goal. At its best, flaming can work as an effective method of self-moderation, getting these people not to post at all. I'm not asking for an official rule of "flaming is okay under these situations," but for mods to use their best judgment when a logical person tells off someone who is quite plainly not. What we have now is a zero-tolerance policy.
Many of those on welfare in america just need the extra push to be someone, while helping starving Biafrin not starve just perpetuates another random life that can't do what somebody with a good US high-school education can. I'd rather help Joe Bloe get into college and do something with his life than help a starving Kenyan keep ****ing his wife and popping out starving babies that need more of our money.
You can't value every argument equally, and neither should mods. I'm not saying that conservatives need to be banned, or whatever, but common sense needs to be used with people who are wearing tinfoil hats.
Wait, wait, wait. What exactly are you insinuating here? That people who are politically conservative are crazy?
Many of those on welfare in america just need the extra push to be someone, while helping starving Biafrin not starve just perpetuates another random life that can't do what somebody with a good US high-school education can. I'd rather help Joe Bloe get into college and do something with his life than help a starving Kenyan keep ****ing his wife and popping out starving babies that need more of our money.
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Calling people names is never acceptable. I'd like to think that most people would know this. There are far better ways to get a point across than simply resorting to namecalling. Note that it was an informal warning, no official record was made.
I didn't have to do that, you know. Then again, maybe I'm going soft in my old age.
At any rate, if you're trying to get people to see your point of view, back it up with fact rather than accusations. I have no issue with you having a problem with the mods; discuss that all you want, in a reasonable (read: productive) manner.
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I won't dispute the second, but context is everything. Do you routinely save jokes from conversations with your friends for a comedy night?
I agree those kind of card links are very annoying. A big part of the problem seems to be Gatherer though. WotC doesn't seem to be trying to improve it at all, even though it has numerous issues. Spaces at the end or beginning of names is such an easy to fix problem it should have been done ages ago. As for misspellings or the use of card nicknames, I've seen other Magic search engines that offer "best guess" matches (search for "BOP" on http://magiccards.info/ for example). I figure the official site should be able to do something similar. By the way, you can change your card window options to use MagicCard.info in your user control panel if Gatherer isn't to your liking.
Now to the topic at hand, I'll just say that this forum is by far my favorite. I've been to several different sites for different topics and none have been near as good as this one. And a major reason for that is because of how "strict" this place is. Keep up the good work mods!
"Speak your mind" doesnt translate into "pick a fight"....
Unless you're psychic, you can't tell whether the user will listen to what you say, or just whine "why should I do that?" or "just learn the cards you stupid n00b" (I've seen people saying both on a certain other message board.)
Besides, it's less effort to report the post - make it easier on yourself and let the mods handle problems. (Any problems anywhere, not just the tags of doom.)
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
I think I only ever had one warning (from mikey) and if I recall correctly he rescinded it after I IMed him about it and pointed out that he hadn't read the whole post, so I'm not going to rant about the mods being imperialistic or anything. And I'm not going to say they don't have a sense of humor either, I used to read the "who is currently banned" thread (or whatever that's called) ever time it was updated because it was awesome.
My problem with the strictness of this forum basically breaks down into two things.
1. Span warnings. Seriously (pun intended) I think they get overused. Quoting a post to agree with it, "quoted for savage truthery", "Sarnathed", and the rest, may not contribute much (though honestly I thing agreement posts are very helpful in deck archetype threads) but they're arent much of an annoyance either. Is it really that hard to scroll past a few lines of text?
2. Flame warnings. Okay, this one's a little weird I'll admit. But I "grew up" in internet terms on a forum that did nothing to prevent flame wars. And I mean full-out, you've-never-seen-a-thing-like-this flame wars. I think it really helped the community to be more open and honest and come together, and not repress so much anger that leads to really issues. Considering the stuff you can get flame warnings for around here, it's basically day and night.
These boards need Lucida Blackletter as a font option.
No, you've never received a warning, not from me or anybody else. I don't even know what you're talking about.
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I frequent the jerks too, and I will say some areas of the board are not really moderated at all (they actually don't have to be, see Benefactors Bar). Also note that Elitist Jerks have a generally older poster-base on average, and an emphasis on hard data when theorycrafting. This forum shouldn't be quite as strict as EJ, and probably cannot be as strict as EJ, simply due to the massive number of grammar infractions mods would have to give out.
1. They do have polls to see who agrees with what if you're interested in that kind of thing. The spam issue varies some from forum to forum. I know in the rulings thread the big problem seems to be wanting to go off on tangents, and I can see how that would be a problem. A discussion of the clash ability could easily devolve into the history of CIP abilities if you let it.
2. As far as the flames go, what possible point do they serve. I've been involved in an incredibly long, drawn out argument obver health care in the debate thread, but it's actually been, I think, fairly productive. If it had turned into a name calling contest then I would not have gained as clear an undertsanding of the opposing view. If you're into to that kind of stuff check out the forum games.
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That seems like a good idea to enforce the rules.
In comparison to any other forums I have ever been on, this one is at least twice as strict as any others.
I received 2 infractions within the first month or so I was here.
1 was from necroing. I was just surfing the boards and there was a thread that was on the front page and it was about the 4th thread from the top. The heading caught my eye, I read the other posts and simply desired to make an intelligent comment to further the discussion when I almost immediately received an infraction. It was laughable.
The 2nd was from illegal bumping of my trade thread. The 1 bump per 24 hours is a great rule and it is perfectly logical. I have been trading online on other forums for quite some time and they all have the same logical rules. Anyway, being kind of a night owl, I had bumped my thread at 3 or 4am. I was out late, got home, got on the computer for a bit, and bumped my thread before going to bed. The next night I didn't have as much to do. I was just surfin the net and my thread had gone off the front page. It was like somewhere between 10-11pm and I bumped my thread for the night. The next day I received another infraction for illegal bumping.
Now this is absolutely ridiculous. I know I am not in some small portion of the population that regards 3am as night instead of morning. I'm also not going to sit at home and make sure at least 24 hours has past to bump my thread when I won't be bumping again till the next night anyway.
Seeing that you have received an infraction immediately for something so small is extremely annoying. I think it is good that people take time from their lives to help out the forums; however, sometimes the mods need to give it a rest on the power trips. It is like we are getting tickets for jaywalking around here.
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Trade Thread---V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=89415 - Down atm
Sell/Buy List--V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7460848#post7460848
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...so get an infraction. Honestly, you can draw the line anywhere, but on this forum the rule is 24 hours. Not 18, not 20. 24. Otherwise, the excuse will always be exactly this. It is not difficult to look at your last bump and see when you made your last post.
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Could you link to it? I'd like to see what the fuss & muss was about.
I'm confused. You start off by supporting the "one bump per 24 hours" rule only to turn around and say it doesn't make sense? If the mods start making exceptions for one person, they gotta make an exception for everyone. Your argument is equivalent to this:
"Officer, I understand that the legal Blood Alcohol Limit is 0.08%... but come on! My BAL is only 0.0825%! Can't you just let this one go?"
And it's not like it was an emergency or anything. So what? You have to wait a few hours (or God forbid, another entire day!!) to bump your thread. The world won't fall apart if your thread isn't at the top of the standings.
When you're jaywalking across a freeway with 30,000 cars, you'll probably get a ticket too.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=2527834#post2527834
I understand that I should have looked at the date, but it was on the front page and close to the top so I posted.
I never said the rule did not make sense. The rule is there so that everyone can have their thread in the spotlight for a certain amount of time. When people clearly are not following the rule (generally because they don't know), it is very obvious because they are posting in 4 hour time periods. When people post after 20-23 hours have past, most likely:
1. It isn't an every day occurance
2. It doesn't have the same effect of someone posting like 3 times in an 8 hour time frame.
I'm not saying that I should be able to do whatever I want and that I should be the exception to all the rules. It is that kind of logic that instantly turns something very small into something very big and important. Such logic is like saying, well obviously if they let you get away with bumping your thread again after waiting only 22 hours, then the entire forum would turn to chaos. People would then assume that it is ok to bump whenever they want and would begin to bump their thread every 2 hours, while going to other threads and spamming up a storm assuming that clearly the rules are not being upheld.
Of course it wasn't an emergency. None of the posts on this entire forum are ever that important to where they must be posted at any particular moment.
It wasn't an issue of me having to wait a few more hours, as I would have waited a few hours if I was not going to be in bed by then. I could have waited another day; however, the reason why anyone would want to bump their thread once a day would probably be because they need cards in a timely fashion. I would be busy during the day so I would lose an entire day theoretically from members seeing my trade thread and would therefore lose another day of attempting to receive cards by the desired time. I rarely look past the first page and I would assume the story is the same with others.
This sounds a bit dramatic - i know. It wasn't absolutely necessary to miss 1 day. Regardless, the point is that me posting at 21hours instead of 24 hours does not really display the typical poster who has no regard for the rules and therefore, it seems rash and rather strict to go straight to issuing an infraction.
I see where you are trying to go with this analogy; however this is simply another example of logic that blows the issue out of proportion. I'm not sure that someone posting at the 21st hour instead of waiting till the 24th is quite as dangerous to anyone as jaywalking across a freeway with 30,000 cars.
Sale/Buy List!!!
Trade Thread---V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=89415 - Down atm
Sell/Buy List--V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7460848#post7460848
Twitter!!
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Propose an alternative standard that is more fair than the simple, obvious, and objective 24 hour standard, please.
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The 24 hour rule is perfectly fine, but I think moderators should exercise some level of higher judgement. We give them authority under the assumption that they are perfectly deserving of it; not just because they can read rules and issue infractions, but because they should be able to hold a higher level of thought process. We all like to think of moderators being above robots issueing out infractions left and right every time someone steps over the line to any degree. I suppose that since it isn't like they are paid to do anything then it is basically an environment of, 'if you don't like it then you can leave', which I find sad. It is unfortunate that some mods here just take up the part of the "cop on his first day", going strictly by the book to avoid any possible mistakes because they are just trying to do what they were told, while ignoring common decency to the fellow member who inadvertently made a mistake.
I'm not trying to lump every mod in the same boat as a lot of mods here are fantastic. It would be the same as a mod or fellow member lumping any member who has received an infraction as just being some winner who wasn't intelligent enough to read the rules that everyone else is somehow able to follow perfectly fine.
Sale/Buy List!!!
Trade Thread---V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=89415 - Down atm
Sell/Buy List--V
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7460848#post7460848
Twitter!!
http://twitter.com/AaronRWilburn
Fixed.
A warning is a fair bit different from an infraction and the staff rarely if ever hands out an infraction on the first offense.
I feel that it's not too much to ask that posters use a bit of common sense prior to posting. If a thread has been inactive for months (and no, it's not unreasonable to expect one to take the second or two it takes to make note of the last posting date), it shouldn't be difficult to think about whether your necro is justified.
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I couldn't disagree more. I see genuinely crazy people as a disruption of the forums, by their very nature of it being impossible to have a real discussion when they're around. People of the tinfoil hat variety should be banned on the spot if they spout their nonsense. I don't understand why flaming is inherently a disruption of the forums.
Consider any discussion you've ever had. If someone starts attacking someone else, does the discussion continue in the same manner that it had previous to the attack? If tempers rise, does the conversation continue to be productive? When people are insulting each other back and forth, doesn't someone normally step in to try to stop the problem?
In general, flames seem to follow the 'one good turn deserves another'. If someone attacks someone else, the second person usually wants to fight back, and then we just have name calling instead of a good conversation. Thus, the flaming is disruptive.
What I've really never seen is a good argument as for why flaming -should- be allowed on the forums.
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I didn't say anything about a person's religion. But if we get someone who claims aliens are trying to steal their thoughts, or that a secret shadow government is trying to implement a New World Order, or if someone talks about dressing up in animal costumes and doing disgusting things to anthropomorphic creatures, or whatever, I will denounce them as crazy in the head-place.
You can't value every argument equally, and neither should mods. I'm not saying that conservatives need to be banned, or whatever, but common sense needs to be used with people who are wearing tinfoil hats. There's a difference between people calling each other stupid in an argument over the war in Iraq (bad) and telling a crazy person they're crazy (good). As I said, it is impossible to have an intellectual, informed discussion with these people, and these sorts of discussions should be the goal. At its best, flaming can work as an effective method of self-moderation, getting these people not to post at all. I'm not asking for an official rule of "flaming is okay under these situations," but for mods to use their best judgment when a logical person tells off someone who is quite plainly not. What we have now is a zero-tolerance policy.
Wait, wait, wait. What exactly are you insinuating here? That people who are politically conservative are crazy?
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That is exactly what I did not say, actually. If memory serves me correctly, I said this: