For those of you that tracked the price trends of the previous FTV sets, when was the best time to pick them up (sealed) if buying online? Realms, and especially its singles, seems hyper-inflated on eBay right now. Did the previous sets continue to fall for a while after release until they hit a low? I know the singles generally did, but wasn't sure if the sealed sets followed the same pattern.
For those of you that tracked the price trends of the previous FTV sets, when was the best time to pick them up (sealed) if buying online? Realms, and especially its singles, seems hyper-inflated on eBay right now. Did the previous sets continue to fall for a while after release until they hit a low? I know the singles generally did, but wasn't sure if the sealed sets followed the same pattern.
They are inflated because of people who didn't/couldn't preorder and are late to presales. Best time to buy is when they are announced but not fully spoiled.
Still, it's likely that a sealed FTV Realms will never be worth less than $80 in the future after the dust settles. It all mostly depends on the final values of Ancient Tomb, Maze of Ith, Dryad Arbor. It's also Lands, which is much more collectible in nature than previous releases (See: price of FTV Dragons).
The sealed sets did indeed gradually fall in price on all of the FTV releases if I recall correctly. However, this is because of false preorder pricing. There was a lot of hype surrounding the Commander release for example, but it turned out most of the EDH players looking to pimp out their decks are purists and don't have an interest in FTV foiling so that set dropped hard. I believe you can still pick up sealed ones for $50.
So you're saying that the best time to buy has past, but that prices are now going to fall after release, and additionally that the most recent set is now [what I believe probably is] an all-time low at $50 because of the foiling process. You mention Maze, Tomb, and Arbor, but not Urborg with regards to singles prices. FTV: Dragons had probably one of the most collectible possible themes in all of Magic (not that Realms doesn't as well).
Sorry, not trying to come off as a jerk, but I'm just not getting much useful information out of your reply - a lot of it feels contradictory. Maybe it's just the way I'm reading it. Didn't this set also turn out to have a lot of false hype? Lots of people in the rumor mill threads are exceedingly disappointed after having expectations of cards like Karakas and Wasteland. I still think it's a great set, but doesn't that give Realms a decent amount of room to fall?
I think Exiled and Relics are the best comparisons, since they also contained a wide swath of playable cards. I predict that, if anything, Realms will exceed the value of those, so the average presale price of $80 that's getting thrown around seems very reasonable.
IIRC, they tend to stabilize after a couple months, since people are putting the cards back on to the secondary market by that point.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
The individual card prices should stabilize within a few months. The sealed ones will probably never go down, they'll only go up over time. My only advice would be to look out for auctions (instead of B.I.N.'s is probably your only option. You might eventually get lucky.
I wouldn't expect to pay anything less than $100 for a sealed one of these, personally, and that will go up over time.
You would almost certainly pay less than that getting them as singles.
The individual card prices should stabilize within a few months. The sealed ones will probably never go down, they'll only go up over time. My only advice would be to look out for auctions (instead of B.I.N.'s is probably your only option. You might eventually get lucky.
I wouldn't expect to pay anything less than $100 for a sealed one of these, personally, and that will go up over time.
You would almost certainly pay less than that getting them as singles.
And now a new auction has 10 copies available at $84.99 with free shipping. I have to imagine the trend will continue as we near/pass the street release, the question is for how long?
Prices on this one went through the roof when maze of ith was spoiled because people falsely assumed the big card would be saved for last (hoping for Wasteland). This was further fueled by Aaron Forsythe's "stone cold nuts" assessment. The price is likely normalizing again now from that bump but I doubt it will dip much lower than its current price. $85 shipped is actually pretty darn good value for this set. I fully expect this one to climb to $150 for a sealed box down the road. Comparing this to exiled and relics is fair... but assuming same print run (which actually might not be the case but I don't have that info) this should end up higher simply because it's lands. They go in every deck so I think there will be higher demand.
As for singles... in a couple months it will stabilize. Some will sink in value (desert, etc)... most will hold... a couple might rise (my money is on dryad arbor and ancient tomb). This being FTV land though I expect singles to rise more than previous sets. Why? Everyone can use lands so they'll keep the cards. In Exiled (for example) I know people who traded berserk because they don't use green much. This won't happen for maze and crew as much.
FTV: Dragons had probably one of the most collectible possible themes in all of Magic (not that Realms doesn't as well).
You misunderstand. FTV Dragons, while it's cards are not inherently valuable, is worth significantly more than other FTV sets because of it's collectible nature. The same will hold true for FTV Realms.
Lots of people in the rumor mill threads are exceedingly disappointed after having expectations of cards like Karakas and Wasteland. I still think it's a great set, but doesn't that give Realms a decent amount of room to fall?
The Rumor Mill is filled with a lot of nonsense, and complaints would have been made regardless of the inclusion of Karakas and Wasteland.
Until those three cards I mentioned get additional reprints (as foils), the room to fall is dependent on the "lesser" cards in this set. Even the mediocre value cards are better than many of the past mediocre cards included in FTV sets.
Thanks for the clarifications, they helped a lot. For what it's worth, here's where I was going with this: You say the best time to buy is prior to being fully spoiled, but that obviously wasn't the case with Legends (if you can get it for $50 now). (That of course assumes you're buying online for a typical preorder price of around double MSRP or more, not lucking out and getting it from a shop for close to MSRP, which few people do.)
So the question is, is Realms another Legends? I personally don't think so, however I've talked to a lot of folks, a few store owners, etc. (agree about the junk in Rumor Mill, but that's just one example out of many), and the general consensus I'm getting is that people are underwhelmed. My take is that, even if that's the case, lands are more ubiquitous than legendary creatures, so even if the set is a little sub-par, it still will likely hold better value. I realize now that that's what you were saying about Dragons - it just didn't read clearly to me before. Chalk it up to not having had the morning coffee yet.
As far as the foiling process, it's the same as other FTVs (I think?), so not sure why that wouldn't negatively affect Realms the same way it did Legends. Several of the top cards in Legends (Maze, Urborg, High Market, etc.) are major EDH staples too, after all.
So, I just felt like there was a contradiction there, which made it hard to draw a firm answer to my original question. Sorry if that struck a nerve - it wasn't my intention.
The one thing Realms has going for it is that the alt-art foils are highly playable and look nice. I know several Maverick players who are very excited at the prospect of replacing their singleton Dryad Arbor and Maze of Ith.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Realms is in no way another Legends. People forget that even the most awesome FTV set yet (Exiled) had some really subpar cards in it - think Kird Ape, Trinisphere, Serendib Efreet, etc. People love Exiled now and call it an amazing set - yet it probably had more "bad" cards than Realms.
Realms is in no way another Legends. People forget that even the most awesome FTV set yet (Exiled) had some really subpar cards in it - think Kird Ape, Trinisphere, Serendib Efreet, etc. People love Exiled now and call it an amazing set - yet it probably had more "bad" cards than Realms.
All three cards you listed are still better than freaking Desert and Shivan Gorge. Exiled also gave us Top, Berserk, Strip Mine, Tinker, Balance, Gifts Ungiven, Goblin Lackey, Lotus Petal and Mystical Tutor.
Sorry, I'm okay with Realms but Exiled is the cream of the crop of FTV.
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
All three cards you listed are still better than freaking Desert and Shivan Gorge.
In what regards? From the Vault series provides a great opportunity to pay tribute to cards of the past that have had significant relevance or played an important role to the game. Both cards are still collectible by nature as one being the was-to-be 6th basic land and the other getting the short end of the stick in Urza's Saga's legendary land cycle (of incredulous power I might add).
As far as the foiling process, it's the same as other FTVs (I think?), so not sure why that wouldn't negatively affect Realms the same way it did Legends. Several of the top cards in Legends (Maze, Urborg, High Market, etc.) are major EDH staples too, after all.
Yes, it is the same foiling "effect", as in, it will still have a singly gloss effect over the card. It's possible slight changes may have been made to the process (as you may notice between M12 and M11 foils for instance) but it will remain as same as the unique FTV foil appearance on the other sets.
The reason why the FTV foiling doesn't matter for Realms is because the cards that are being foiled for the first time are actually sought after. The P3K generals that were printed in FTV Legends were really quite underwhelming and thus did not take the place as the driving force for that release's value (as they should have, as is happening with FTV Realms). Not to mention many of the new arts for those generals were ill-received (save for Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and Progenitus.) and therefore did not further embolden their likelihood of retaining a higher value.
So, I just felt like there was a contradiction there, which made it hard to draw a firm answer to my original question. Sorry if that struck a nerve - it wasn't my intention.
No worries, I literally care not about most of what is said on these forums anyway.
All three cards you listed are still better than freaking Desert and Shivan Gorge. Exiled also gave us Top, Berserk, Strip Mine, Tinker, Balance, Gifts Ungiven, Goblin Lackey, Lotus Petal and Mystical Tutor.
Sorry, I'm okay with Realms but Exiled is the cream of the crop of FTV.
I completely disagree - value-wise Desert and Gorge will be about the same as Efreet and Kird Ape, which still haven't cracked $2.50 despite being in an extremely popular and rare set released three years ago. There is little to no difference.
Also, Realms gives us Maze (which I can guarantee you will be $15-$20 more than Berserk); Urborg (which will be worth as much as - if not more than - Top); Ancient Tomb (which will be worth more than any of the remaining cards in Exiled, such as Strip Mine); Vesuva, Arbor, Grove and High Market (all of which will be the equivalent of cards like Lackey, Petal, Mystical, Tinker); and some other jank, which will be worth more than the rest of the jank in Exiled (Balance, while powerful, is not valuable). I see no way that Realms isn't going to be the gold standard going forward. Additionally, I'm not even taking into consideration that prices for a lot of cards from Exiled have risen since the set came out, for instance Top and Strip Mine (or Efreet and Kird Ape which were barely above bulk foil rares at one point).
In what regards? From the Vault series provides a great opportunity to pay tribute to cards of the past that have had significant relevance or played an important role to the game. Both cards are still collectible by nature as one being the was-to-be 6th basic land and the other getting the short end of the stick in Urza's Saga's legendary land cycle (of incredulous power I might add).
Kird Ape at least sees play in Legacy and Modern, when was the last time Desert or Shivan Gorge saw play in anything, including EDH?
I completely disagree - value-wise Desert and Gorge will be about the same as Efreet and Kird Ape, which still haven't cracked $2.50 despite being in an extremely popular and rare set released three years ago. There is little to no difference.
Also, Realms gives us Maze (which I can guarantee you will be $15-$20 more than Berserk); Urborg (which will be worth as much as - if not more than - Top); Ancient Tomb (which will be worth more than any of the remaining cards in Exiled, such as Strip Mine); Vesuva, Arbor, Grove and High Market (all of which will be the equivalent of cards like Lackey, Petal, Mystical, Tinker); and some other jank, which will be worth more than the rest of the jank in Exiled (Balance, while powerful, is not valuable). I see no way that Realms isn't going to be the gold standard going forward. Additionally, I'm not even taking into consideration that prices for a lot of cards from Exiled have risen since the set came out, for instance Top and Strip Mine (or Efreet and Kird Ape which were barely above bulk foil rares at one point).
Maze of Ith being more expensive than Berserk remains to be seen and even if it was that's not really much to write home about considering Berserk sees little to no play at all in Legacy and Maze not only sees more play but is also highly desirable in EDH. Maze also had the benefit of a Judge foil.
Considering SCG has put the entire set up on pre-order on their website already I don't see the other cards you listed raising that high considering once they start getting out there the prices will start to decline. Another thing is that I wasn't just talking about price or value. Exiled had tournament caliber cards whereas it seems that Realms is once more catering to the EDH crowd.
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
Maze of Ith being more expensive than Berserk remains to be seen and even if it was that's not really much to write home about considering Berserk sees little to no play at all in Legacy and Maze not only sees more play but is also highly desirable in EDH. Maze also had the benefit of a Judge foil.
Considering SCG has put the entire set up on pre-order on their website already I don't see the other cards you listed raising that high considering once they start getting out there the prices will start to decline. Another thing is that I wasn't just talking about price or value. Exiled had tournament caliber cards whereas it seems that Realms is once more catering to the EDH crowd.
I don't think it's fair to use SCG prices since they're completely sold out of every card. And unless you're a Vintage player, Exiled had the same or fewer tournament playable cards.
Kird Ape at least sees play in Legacy and Modern, when was the last time Desert or Shivan Gorge saw play in anything, including EDH?
I don't understand your reasoning. Just because something does not have a place in competitive decks does not mean it is a worthless card. Shivan Gorge is actively played in EDH as a source of colorless damage. While Kird Ape is also a fantastic card with a rich history in the game, Desert is merely the Kird Ape of Realms. The FNM Kird Ape had been out for 3-4 years before FTV Exiled rolled around, which really was just a disappointing reprint of the 8th edition alternate art. This was an equally unexciting card at that time to have taken up a slot in the FTV but it was just as deserving as any other card there, and perhaps more with it's background of being a quasi Serra Angel that created a defining presence for power creep in future creature cards.
I don't think it's fair to use SCG prices since they're completely sold out of every card. And unless you're a Vintage player, Exiled had the same or fewer tournament playable cards.
I'm not saying SCG prices are 100% accurate but it's the only source of data we have to go by rather than just spouting off random estimates and claiming them to be true.
I don't understand your reasoning. Just because something does not have a place in competitive decks does not mean it is a worthless card. Shivan Gorge is actively played in EDH as a source of colorless damage. While Kird Ape is also a fantastic card with a rich history in the game, Desert is merely the Kird Ape of Realms. The FNM Kird Ape had been out for 3-4 years before FTV Exiled rolled around, which really was just a disappointing reprint of the 8th edition alternate art. This was an equally unexciting card at that time to have taken up a slot in the FTV but it was just as deserving as any other card there, and perhaps more with it's background of being a quasi Serra Angel that created a defining presence for power creep in future creature cards.
I think you're stretching the definition of actively played unless you have data or links to people running the card as much as you claim. I mean I'm sure in mono-red EDH it probably can take a slot for a mountain.
Not even talking about monetary value but Kird Ape is playable in Legacy and Modern. Are you going to convince me Desert is?
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
Not even talking about monetary value but Kird Ape is playable in Legacy and Modern. Are you going to convince me Desert is?
You already said this and I already refuted. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm only letting you know how it really is. Whether or not you want to be obdurate about this does not concern me.
And before further discussion regarding the SCG pricing of these cards takes place, it may be wise to consider that just because cards are listed does not mean preorders were entertained, either in singles or the sealed set. TMV for these cards can easily be found on eBay.
And before further discussion regarding the SCG pricing of these cards takes place, it may be wise to consider that just because cards are listed does not mean preorders were entertained, either in singles or the sealed set. TMV for these cards can easily be found on eBay.
Just like how the pre-order prices for every new Planeswalker since JTMS has started out at 40-50 dollars and all of them have dropped like a rock to a fraction of prices, they will come down once there is a supply (currently there is 0 of this) to meet the demand (there is a lot of this right now).
Nothing in this game is degenerate or completely dominant. They haven't banned anything in standard in a long, long time. Hell they should have banned affinity right away, but they didn't until boxed sales collapsed too. Hasbro had to come in and fire people.
I'll enjoy watching all the whiners eat crow monday.
Once you said Shivan Gorge sees play in EDH, I stopped reading it. Phyrexian Tower sees way more play in EDH. At least Kird Ape and Trinisphere are regularly played in other formats.
Based on previous FTV:R releases, does anyone know when prices bottom out on eBay (whatever that bottom might be)? If I had to guess I'd guess auctions that end the Thursday of release but was looking for some historical data.
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They are inflated because of people who didn't/couldn't preorder and are late to presales. Best time to buy is when they are announced but not fully spoiled.
Still, it's likely that a sealed FTV Realms will never be worth less than $80 in the future after the dust settles. It all mostly depends on the final values of Ancient Tomb, Maze of Ith, Dryad Arbor. It's also Lands, which is much more collectible in nature than previous releases (See: price of FTV Dragons).
The sealed sets did indeed gradually fall in price on all of the FTV releases if I recall correctly. However, this is because of false preorder pricing. There was a lot of hype surrounding the Commander release for example, but it turned out most of the EDH players looking to pimp out their decks are purists and don't have an interest in FTV foiling so that set dropped hard. I believe you can still pick up sealed ones for $50.
Sorry, not trying to come off as a jerk, but I'm just not getting much useful information out of your reply - a lot of it feels contradictory. Maybe it's just the way I'm reading it. Didn't this set also turn out to have a lot of false hype? Lots of people in the rumor mill threads are exceedingly disappointed after having expectations of cards like Karakas and Wasteland. I still think it's a great set, but doesn't that give Realms a decent amount of room to fall?
Legacy: D+T
Oldschool: BW Deadguy BW
Magic player/collector since 1994
Proud supporter of #MtgForLife!
IIRC, they tend to stabilize after a couple months, since people are putting the cards back on to the secondary market by that point.
I wouldn't expect to pay anything less than $100 for a sealed one of these, personally, and that will go up over time.
You would almost certainly pay less than that getting them as singles.
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BIN on ebay has already dipped below $100.
And now a new auction has 10 copies available at $84.99 with free shipping. I have to imagine the trend will continue as we near/pass the street release, the question is for how long?
Legacy: D+T
Oldschool: BW Deadguy BW
Magic player/collector since 1994
Proud supporter of #MtgForLife!
As for singles... in a couple months it will stabilize. Some will sink in value (desert, etc)... most will hold... a couple might rise (my money is on dryad arbor and ancient tomb). This being FTV land though I expect singles to rise more than previous sets. Why? Everyone can use lands so they'll keep the cards. In Exiled (for example) I know people who traded berserk because they don't use green much. This won't happen for maze and crew as much.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
What does Urborg contribute? It's a known value. The Planar Chaos Urborg, Tomb of YawgmothFoil is $40 and the FTV version will settle at $15 - $20.
Maze of Ith receives new art, is foil, and isn't a $100 judge promo.
Ancient Tomb is the only foil version for a card that sees play in tier 1 legacy decks.
Dryad Arbor receives new art and also sees play in tier 1 legacy and modern decks.
You misunderstand. FTV Dragons, while it's cards are not inherently valuable, is worth significantly more than other FTV sets because of it's collectible nature. The same will hold true for FTV Realms.
You're probably right.
Yes, surrounding Wasteland as the box art suggests. Had Wasteland been in this set preorders would be in the ballpark of $200 right now.
The Rumor Mill is filled with a lot of nonsense, and complaints would have been made regardless of the inclusion of Karakas and Wasteland.
Until those three cards I mentioned get additional reprints (as foils), the room to fall is dependent on the "lesser" cards in this set. Even the mediocre value cards are better than many of the past mediocre cards included in FTV sets.
Thanks for the clarifications, they helped a lot. For what it's worth, here's where I was going with this: You say the best time to buy is prior to being fully spoiled, but that obviously wasn't the case with Legends (if you can get it for $50 now). (That of course assumes you're buying online for a typical preorder price of around double MSRP or more, not lucking out and getting it from a shop for close to MSRP, which few people do.)
So the question is, is Realms another Legends? I personally don't think so, however I've talked to a lot of folks, a few store owners, etc. (agree about the junk in Rumor Mill, but that's just one example out of many), and the general consensus I'm getting is that people are underwhelmed. My take is that, even if that's the case, lands are more ubiquitous than legendary creatures, so even if the set is a little sub-par, it still will likely hold better value. I realize now that that's what you were saying about Dragons - it just didn't read clearly to me before. Chalk it up to not having had the morning coffee yet.
As far as the foiling process, it's the same as other FTVs (I think?), so not sure why that wouldn't negatively affect Realms the same way it did Legends. Several of the top cards in Legends (Maze, Urborg, High Market, etc.) are major EDH staples too, after all.
So, I just felt like there was a contradiction there, which made it hard to draw a firm answer to my original question. Sorry if that struck a nerve - it wasn't my intention.
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Oldschool: BW Deadguy BW
Magic player/collector since 1994
Proud supporter of #MtgForLife!
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
All three cards you listed are still better than freaking Desert and Shivan Gorge. Exiled also gave us Top, Berserk, Strip Mine, Tinker, Balance, Gifts Ungiven, Goblin Lackey, Lotus Petal and Mystical Tutor.
Sorry, I'm okay with Realms but Exiled is the cream of the crop of FTV.
Who's eating crow?
In what regards? From the Vault series provides a great opportunity to pay tribute to cards of the past that have had significant relevance or played an important role to the game. Both cards are still collectible by nature as one being the was-to-be 6th basic land and the other getting the short end of the stick in Urza's Saga's legendary land cycle (of incredulous power I might add).
Yes, it is the same foiling "effect", as in, it will still have a singly gloss effect over the card. It's possible slight changes may have been made to the process (as you may notice between M12 and M11 foils for instance) but it will remain as same as the unique FTV foil appearance on the other sets.
The reason why the FTV foiling doesn't matter for Realms is because the cards that are being foiled for the first time are actually sought after. The P3K generals that were printed in FTV Legends were really quite underwhelming and thus did not take the place as the driving force for that release's value (as they should have, as is happening with FTV Realms). Not to mention many of the new arts for those generals were ill-received (save for Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and Progenitus.) and therefore did not further embolden their likelihood of retaining a higher value.
No worries, I literally care not about most of what is said on these forums anyway.
I completely disagree - value-wise Desert and Gorge will be about the same as Efreet and Kird Ape, which still haven't cracked $2.50 despite being in an extremely popular and rare set released three years ago. There is little to no difference.
Also, Realms gives us Maze (which I can guarantee you will be $15-$20 more than Berserk); Urborg (which will be worth as much as - if not more than - Top); Ancient Tomb (which will be worth more than any of the remaining cards in Exiled, such as Strip Mine); Vesuva, Arbor, Grove and High Market (all of which will be the equivalent of cards like Lackey, Petal, Mystical, Tinker); and some other jank, which will be worth more than the rest of the jank in Exiled (Balance, while powerful, is not valuable). I see no way that Realms isn't going to be the gold standard going forward. Additionally, I'm not even taking into consideration that prices for a lot of cards from Exiled have risen since the set came out, for instance Top and Strip Mine (or Efreet and Kird Ape which were barely above bulk foil rares at one point).
Kird Ape at least sees play in Legacy and Modern, when was the last time Desert or Shivan Gorge saw play in anything, including EDH?
Maze of Ith being more expensive than Berserk remains to be seen and even if it was that's not really much to write home about considering Berserk sees little to no play at all in Legacy and Maze not only sees more play but is also highly desirable in EDH. Maze also had the benefit of a Judge foil.
Considering SCG has put the entire set up on pre-order on their website already I don't see the other cards you listed raising that high considering once they start getting out there the prices will start to decline. Another thing is that I wasn't just talking about price or value. Exiled had tournament caliber cards whereas it seems that Realms is once more catering to the EDH crowd.
Who's eating crow?
I don't think it's fair to use SCG prices since they're completely sold out of every card. And unless you're a Vintage player, Exiled had the same or fewer tournament playable cards.
I don't understand your reasoning. Just because something does not have a place in competitive decks does not mean it is a worthless card. Shivan Gorge is actively played in EDH as a source of colorless damage. While Kird Ape is also a fantastic card with a rich history in the game, Desert is merely the Kird Ape of Realms. The FNM Kird Ape had been out for 3-4 years before FTV Exiled rolled around, which really was just a disappointing reprint of the 8th edition alternate art. This was an equally unexciting card at that time to have taken up a slot in the FTV but it was just as deserving as any other card there, and perhaps more with it's background of being a quasi Serra Angel that created a defining presence for power creep in future creature cards.
I'm not saying SCG prices are 100% accurate but it's the only source of data we have to go by rather than just spouting off random estimates and claiming them to be true.
I think you're stretching the definition of actively played unless you have data or links to people running the card as much as you claim. I mean I'm sure in mono-red EDH it probably can take a slot for a mountain.
Not even talking about monetary value but Kird Ape is playable in Legacy and Modern. Are you going to convince me Desert is?
Who's eating crow?
You already said this and I already refuted. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, I'm only letting you know how it really is. Whether or not you want to be obdurate about this does not concern me.
And before further discussion regarding the SCG pricing of these cards takes place, it may be wise to consider that just because cards are listed does not mean preorders were entertained, either in singles or the sealed set. TMV for these cards can easily be found on eBay.
Just like how the pre-order prices for every new Planeswalker since JTMS has started out at 40-50 dollars and all of them have dropped like a rock to a fraction of prices, they will come down once there is a supply (currently there is 0 of this) to meet the demand (there is a lot of this right now).
Who's eating crow?
Based on previous FTV:R releases, does anyone know when prices bottom out on eBay (whatever that bottom might be)? If I had to guess I'd guess auctions that end the Thursday of release but was looking for some historical data.