So a steampunk set has been attempted several times, but I don't think I've ever seen one finished. Inspired by Athani's long-languishing Cammorea set, I decided to take the steampunk setting and develop it myself.
The result is Archatmos, a world of complex automatons, clockwork machinery, alchemy and adventure. It's far less futuristic in tone than Mirrodin and a bit more like Lorwyn in that the world is a bit whimsical and not at all dark or bleak. Loosely themed on Europe during the Industrial Revolution, the plane is home to many races (from agrarian Elves, nature-loving Kithkin and sneaky Kor privateers to polluted Treefolk, industrious Vedalken and scatter-brained goblin alchemists). I tried to envision a place mixing Lorwyn's feel with the mechanized, steampunk-design of FFXII. Archatmos is a world of powerful organizations and their world-polluting industry, conflict over natural resources fought with steam-powered war machines, law-defying rogues evading capture with their own flying ships and agents of nature rebelling against the grip of civilization.
The main focus of the set is divided between two common steampunk tropes: alchemy and giant, steam-propelled vehicles.
The concept of vehicles will be handled via a new artifact subtype: the aptly-named Vehicle. Like Athani, I envisioned vehicles as sort of reverse equipment. Vehicles have power and toughness like creatures but are unable to attack or block unless creatures are operating them. Enter the Operate keyword which functions just like equip.
Operate 3(3: Attach a creature you control to this Vehicle or unattach a creature from it. Creatures attached to this Vehicle can’t attack or block and this vehicle can’t attack or block unless a creature is attached to it. When this Vehicle leaves play, sacrifice all creatures attached to it.)
Wordy, but fairly grokkable. A player can play an operate ability whenever he could a sorcery and in doing so attaches a creature he or she controls to the vehicle. The operating creature(s) can no longer attack or block themselves, but they can still tap or play activated abilities. Operating creatures can still be targetted by other spells or abilities (everything from Shock and Terror to Boomerang and Healing Salve). Operated vehicles can attack & block as well as deal and receive damage like creatures but they themselves (despite having power and toughness) do not count as creatures. They are unaffected by effects that deal only with creatures. Effects that deal with them specifically state so. Additionally, vehicles that are destroyed while operated take all operating creatures with them a blimp blown out of the sky takes everyone on board with it.
So for three mana you get a 6/5 vehicle with flying, but before it can engage in combat it requires that you control another creature and pay four mana to attach that creature to it. Should the Cloudship be destroyed, all creatures operating it are sacrificed as well.
The set has the usual basic effects that usually deal with creatures but now also (and in some cases, exclusively) deal with vehicles (pump, damage, resurrection, damage prevention, pacifism, etc) as well as creatures who give benefits to vehicles they operate such as our young hero, Tissandier, a Vedalken boy who wishes to escape his meager city life and fulfill his dream of commanding his own skyship.
Tissandier 2U
Legendary Creature - Vedalken Scout [R]
Protection from spells and abilities 1U: Untap target operated vehicle. Play this ability only if Tissandier is operating a vehicle.
2/2
The other major mechanic is that of alchemy, which is represented in mechanical terms by the keyword Concoct. Concoct appears only on sorceries and instants and allows players to essentially build their own spells by layering additionals spells on like ingredients in alchemy.
Concoct 2 — 2 2 (Search your library for up to two cards that share a color and type with this card and with a total converted mana cost of two or less. Remove those cards from the game and add their effects to this spell. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
Concoct always lists two numbers after its cost. The first is the number of additional cards you can search for and the second limits the total converted mana cost of cards you can mix onto the original spell. For instance, a blue instant with the above ability allows you to pay an additional 2 as you play the spell. If you do, you search your library for up to two other blue instants that have a converted mana cost of no more than two. Those cards are removed from the game and their effects added to the main spell.
The result is a mechanic that works a lot like splice but limits you in the size, color and types of spells you can tack on. The trade off is the freedom of adding cards from your library and not just from your hand.
Dawnwort Fumes WU
Instant [c]
Concoct 3 — 2 5 (Search your library for up to two cards that share a color and type with this card and with a total converted mana cost of five or less. Remove those cards from the game and add their effects to this spell. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 3.
So for 3WU, you get a Mana Leak but you can customize two additional effects from your library as long as the cards are instants that are blue and/or white. A Raise the Alarm and a Repulse. Or a Disenchant and a Counterspell. Or two Condemns. Every spell you concoct is a totally unique effect (well, more or less) and the flexibility allows you a lot of freedom in both play and deckbuilding.
Three other major keywords are in the set, but are far less complicated and take up significantly less of the set so I'll leave the two big keywords to be commented on for now. The set is complete and once I sort out MSE2's exporting deal, I'll present the full set (all 355 cards) here.
Could operate take some design tech from champion? I think the whole "attach a creature to something" idea is a little too sketchy, or at least more sketchy than a simple RFG.
Operate [cost] ([cost]: Remove target creature you control from the game operating this Vehicle. Operate only as a sorcery. This Vehicle can't attack or block unless it's operated. When it leaves play, put all creatures operating it into their owner's graveyard.)
Something like that. Then, like Equip, you can probably dump the "can't attack or block" clause and maybe the next clause.
Concoct -- Cool. It's like imprint but... functional. My only concern is the two numbers, since that's really weird (and I'm not a fan of reinforce's number+cost combo anyway)... but I think I have a solution.
Concoct N — [cost] (As you play this spell, you may pay its concoct cost any number of times. Search your library for up to that many [color] [type] cards with total converted mana cost less than or equal to N. Remove those cards from the game and add their effects to this spell, then shuffle your library.)
Where [color] and [type] are the spell's colors and type.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Do I Contradict Myself? Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
Could operate take some design tech from champion? I think the whole "attach a creature to something" idea is a little too sketchy, or at least more sketchy than a simple RFG.
Operate [cost] ([cost]: Remove target creature you control from the game operating this Vehicle. Operate only as a sorcery. This Vehicle can't attack or block unless it's operated. When it leaves play, put all creatures operating it into their owner's graveyard.)
Something like that. Then, like Equip, you can probably dump the "can't attack or block" clause and maybe the next clause.
I wanted to keep it with attaching creatures for two reasons.
The first was the function of having the creatures available for interactions both good and bad.
With the creatures still technically in play, they can be removed via traditional spells and thus neutralizing the vehicle. That's very important for colors like blue and black, which can deal with creatures but not vehicles (black's edicts don't hit them, its -X/-X don't make flavor sense and neither do Terror-esque effects; and blue is going to be limited in its capacity to deal with artifacts). Allowing them to take out the creatures operating the vehicle in turn allows them to neutralize the vehicle. Much like Planeswalkers having several common answers in all colors, I want this new card type to be something that each color can answer without dedicating too many card slots on narrow hosers. Plus, if Vehicles are not hard to deal with, it frees me up to let them be a bit more powerful on their own (also important when introducing a new type, you want them to be impressive, not nerfed).
The other value in attaching creatures is that it allows me to use creatures attaching to vehicles in other ways. Chief amongst them are the Gremlins, a little red/green tribe who attach themselves to vehicles to wreak havoc.
Concoct -- Cool. It's like imprint but... functional. My only concern is the two numbers, since that's really weird (and I'm not a fan of reinforce's number+cost combo anyway)... but I think I have a solution.
Concoct N — [cost] (As you play this spell, you may pay its concoct cost any number of times. Search your library for up to that many [color] [type] cards with total converted mana cost less than or equal to N. Remove those cards from the game and add their effects to this spell, then shuffle your library.)
Where [color] and [type] are the spell's colors and type.
I initially considered something more like Replicate, but given that the flavor of the world is decidedly Izzet in nature, I wanted to distance myself from their mechanic.
I agree that the two number system is somewhat clunky (it's allayed somewhat by the fact that no spell wit concoct lacks reminder text, which clarifies on each individual card which number corrosponds to which effect), but my alternative was to limit the number of spells you can graft on. My issue there was that no number seemed correct. One was too boring and restrictive and two wound up making certain spells very potent (thus backing me into the corner of upping the cost to prevent power issues). I knew I wanted blue and red to be the best at concoct (with black and white the 'worst'), but that was harder to accomplish when the number of spells you could fetch was fixed. Freeing the numbers to each be variable just seemed to make more sense even if it left the templating a bit ugly.
The other value in attaching creatures is that it allows me to use creatures attaching to vehicles in other ways. Chief amongst them are the Gremlins, a little red/green tribe who attach themselves to vehicles to wreak havoc.
Now that sounds cool.
As for concoct... could you make it an action word?
Dawnwort Fumes :symw::symu:
Instant [C]
You may pay an additional as you play CARDNAME. If you do, concoct up to two cards with total converted mana cost 5 or less. (Search your library for up to two cards that share a color and type with this, remove those cards from the game, and add their effects to this spell. Then shuffle your library.)
Counter target spell unless its controller pays :3mana:.
Or,
Dawnwort Fumes :symw::symu:
Instant (C)
Kicker
Counter target spell unless its controller pays :3mana:. If the kicker cost was paid, concoct up to two cards with total converted mana cost 5 or less. (Search your library for up to two cards that share a color and type with this, remove those cards from the game, and add their effects to this spell. Then shuffle your library.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Do I Contradict Myself? Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
Oh, right. That makes sense, especially remembering the flavorful concept of shooting a guy out of his 'thopter or whatever.
Indeed. The flavor is the added bonus for me, making sure Vehicles could be balanced in terms of answers across the colors was my huge concern. I figure the flavor can be tweaked to fit the big issue is ensuring the design itself is balanced. I hope that it is.
Now that sounds cool.
The Gremlins popped in my head when I was thinking about a world filled with machines. They fit so effortlessly into the setting that they're probably the most natural inclusions beyond concoct and vehicles. My initial notes pegged them really early on as simple creatures whose natural curiosity draws them to the massive machines of the other races. They essentially make their homes in engines and boilers, but their innocent actions wind up causing chaos and destruction. They aren't malicious or even consciously mischievous, they're just trying to make a nest ... in all the wrong places.
Devastating Saboteur 1RR
Creature - Gremlin [R]
Whenever a vehicle Devastating Saboteur is attached to is put into a graveyard from play, you may put Devastating Saboteur into your hand rather than into your graveyard.
Whenever operated vehicle becomes tapped, its controller sacrifices it.
1R: Attach Devastating Saboteur to target vehicle.
2/2
(note that 'saboteur' in this case is meant to be ironic)
As for concoct... could you make it an action word?
Dawnwort Fumes :symw::symu:
Instant [C]
You may pay an additional as you play CARDNAME. If you do, concoct up to two cards with total converted mana cost 5 or less. (Search your library for up to two cards that share a color and type with this, remove those cards from the game, and add their effects to this spell. Then shuffle your library.)
Counter target spell unless its controller pays :3mana:.
Holy **** that is friggin' perfect! I already had effects that trigger off of concocting a spell, but I never thought to just turn the whole mechanic into an action word. Stroke of brilliance. But can it be tweaked to work on permanents as well? I wonder if it might be able to be adapted to creatures to then represent alchemists themselves.
I'm loving all those ideas overall, but I don't quite get Vehicles completely yet. If a card ever says "~ deals X damage to ... permanent" would that work on vehicles to destroy them? (I think WotC would never ler anythng deal damage to a "permanent") If not, they would be sort of too powerful (I'm not including effects that affect Vehicles specifically, just so you know). Also, will there be Vehicles and Equipment in the set? Possibly no, as it would be complicated and confusing, but it seems just right. Also, Vehicles stay in play if the operating creature leaves play, right? That's logical but not very realistical, as some minor damage has to have happened to the vehicle for its operator to fall of and die (possibly make them take 1 damage or something... or if the creature was suddenly returned to hand, the vehicle would fall to the ground and take minor damage for not being ready to stand). I'd have to read this over because I have a feeling all these questions were answered but I didn't read well... but how does Operating truly work? Like Banding (which I still don't completely get, either)? Does the operating creature lose its P/T and gains that of the Vehicle or what... well, those are practically all my concerns. The rest seems pretty nice and well planned.
I'm loving all those ideas overall, but I don't quite get Vehicles completely yet. If a card ever says "~ deals X damage to ... permanent" would that work on vehicles to destroy them? (I think WotC would never ler anythng deal damage to a "permanent") If not, they would be sort of too powerful. Also, will there be Vehicles and Equipment in the set? Possibly no, as it would be complicated and confusing, but it seems just right. Also, Vehicles stay in play if the operating creature leaves play, right? That's logical but not very realistical, as some minor damage has to have happened to the vehicle for its operator to fall of and die (possibly make them take 1 damage or something). I'd have to read this over because I have a feeling all these questions were answered but I didn't read well... but how does Operating truly work? Like Banding (which I still don't completely get, either)? Does the operating creature lose its P/T and gains that of the Vehicle or what... well, those are practically all my concerns. The rest seems pretty nice and well planned.
It is a bit to get, but once you grasp the basics it's really easy. It's a bit like Equipment and Planeswalkers that way.
So anyway you have two creatures (a 3/3 and a 2/1) and a vehicle (a 6/6). The creatures are not attached. They can attack and block but the vehicle can't. You pay its operate cost (like equip, you can only operate as a sorcery) and attach the 3/3 to the vehicle. Now the 3/3 can't attack or block but the vehicle can. Next turn, you decide you want the 2/1 operating the vehicle as well (some vehicles gain stats or abilities based on the number or quality of creatures operating them) so you pay the operate cost a second time and attach the 2/1.
Now for whatever reason, the opponent isn't enjoying this. He's playing blue and black and is having a tough time with a 6/6 immune to its standard tricks (I'll get to what does and doesn't effect a vehicle in terms of basic effects in a sec). But the opponent has a pinger in play and a Last Gasp in hand. So he pings the 2/1 and kills it and then gives the 3/3 -3/-3 and kills that, which then leaves the vehicle without a pilot and it can no longer attack or block. The vehicle isn't destroyed as a result of its crew dying, but it can't operate on its own so it's useless without creatures driving it.
Now, the flipside of that is if the 3/3 and 2/1 have abilities of their own. Stuff like haste, flying and trample don't really carry over (it's the vehicle attacking or blocking, not the guys inside so the creatures operating the vehicle aren't considered attacking, blocking, blocked, unblocked, etc) but protection does still protect the creature, as does shroud. And activated abilities can still be played on operating creatures. So say the 2/1 has shroud and the 3/3 has "2, T: Counter target spell if it targets this creature." The 2/1 can't be targetted by the pinger and the 3/3 can use its activated ability to counter Last Gasp. Or, if you have pingers of your own, get them on board and they act like guys manning the cannons.
As for what does and doesn't affect vehicles, that's something I went back and forth on. At first I had them count as creatures entirely (so they could be targetted by Shock, etc), but that was horrible in terms of flavor. So now they don't count as creatures at all (the one rather major exception to that is the case of staple abilities that until now only worked on creatures: keywords like flying, first strike, trample and the rest would all be updated to allow them to function on vehicles as well). A card saying "Destroy target attacking creature" can't target an attacking vehicle (or even the guys inside since they aren't attacking) but a card saying "Destroy target attacking vehicle" can. I'll give some examples of staples that were tweaked for this set:
Astral Rejection 2W
Sorcery [u]
Remove target creature or vehicle from the game. Return it to play at end of turn.
Goldpress Avowal WW
Enchantment [R]
Vehicles you control get +1/+1.
Might of Inertia 2R
Instant [u]
Target creature or vehicle gets +3/+0 until end of turn.
Draw a card.
I think you get the point. Essentially, if it can target or affect a vehicle, the card will say so. Otherwise, it can't. Anything that targets just a creature can't target a vehicle and vice versa. Wrath of God leaves vehicles unharmed as does Earthquake. A Wrath-effect for vehicles will leave creatures untouched. A card that deals damage to permanents will indeed damage a vehicle.
The one place I think I really pushed it is with two effects. One that says "~ deals 2 damage to target artifact" and the prevention reversal of that effect. I figured you can deal damage to an equipment or Mindslaver or whatever but it just doesn't do anything. Though I readily admit that the templating on those two effects are potentially quite horrid. My intent was to allow them to deal with artifact creatures without explicitly saying so (one thing you'll quickly realize is that my set has absolutely no traditional artifact creatures, just vehicles).
501.10a To assemble a permanent is to put a token copy of that permanent into play.
Rigger2RR
Creature- Human Rigger T: Assemble target nonlegendary artifact.
2/2
Instead of 'vehicles' why not call them 'contraptions?'
Mana Rig2
Artifact - Contraption
~ comes into play tapped.
Operate 7 T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. "That big rig does something even when there ain't anyone driving."
4/6
Makes the set more about making things and what not. Industrial revaluation magic.
i have made a 65-card expansion to the Victindia set, the one thats around here....somewhere....and called it "the monochrome era". I'm not sure how to expand further into another set, but with the first Victindia i used victorian literature, and made it into a world, a la "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen". "Victindia: The Monochrome Era" deals similarly, but utilizes steampunk works by Wells, Verne, and others. Might I suggest taking some degree of inspiration from me? I will, i suppose, edit my thread to include the expansion.
Good luck.
~Lil Kalki
[P.S. -- Despite Steamflogger Boss' name, he seems more of a dieselpunk than steampunk. Riggers in general aren't really steampunk, although anachronisms could make that possible, like with all steampunk/etc.]
501.10a To assemble something is to put a token copy of that permanent into play.
No, the set's complete save for some flavor text and minor changes to cards to tweak overall power levels. Even if there were room, I wasn't likely to include them. Mostly because I never did like assembling, or at least any of the proposed versions of it. The Steamflogger does indeed fit in a steampunk setting, but I don't feel it fits in my set. It would neccessitate the inclusion of both Riggers and contraptions to assemble, both of which would need more slots than I'd be willing to devote to them.
Contraptions would be fighting for space with vehicles, and I honestly would rather just leave it at one complex new card type. Two new card types in one set (both of which with some learning curves) would just be way too much. There's nifty ambition and there's clogging your set with complication.
I'm content to leave assembling contraptions as a red herring.
Instead of 'vehicles' why not call them 'contraptions?'
Contraption could be a creature or an artifact sub type
Mana Rig2
Artifact Creature- Contraption
~ comes into play tapped.
Operate 7 T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool. "That big rig does something even when there ain't anyone driving."
4/6
Makes the set more about making things and what not. Industrial revaluation magic.
Few reasons:
1) Rules people don't like the idea of creatures attaching to other creatures at all. Creatures attaching to a new card type seemed easier to get a pass on.
2) It implies that a creature type (Contraption) has rules baggage (assuming that in your example, operate works the same), which was done away with circa Kamigawa.
3) In terms of flavor, it's not what I want. Artifact creatures have the connotation of independent will, or at least independent locomotion. I wanted the new type to have the flavor of real vehicles which need people to operate them before they become active. Simply put, vehicles aren't creatures.
4) I considered making them artifact creatures with a defender-esque word to attain the flavor I want, but it ate up precious space (like Mirrodin with equipment, I want the reminder text on as many vehicles as I can get it on, and it is on all but the big, splashy, Legendary rare vehicles) and ended up being more restrictive than just doing it as a new type.
As far as your example card goes, I made it a rule of sorts that vehicles could not have activated abilities that could be used without being operated. It just made sense. It's not like a steam-powered dirigible has a sophisticated on-board computer to control its weapons systems or what have you. Some vehicles have activated abilities that depend on operating creatures, others give abilities to the operating creatures themselves, the key is that regardless of who has the ability, the vehicle needs creatures to run.
I didn't want to outclass creatures yet I needed vehicles to be powerful and impressive. The compromise was to appeal to flavor and require creatures to run the big ships. It makes the vehicles feel new and impressive while not replacing creatures as they could have.
The trade off on that is that the creatures in the set are just slightly less efficient than we're used to. They can still get the job done (they aren't universally weak, just slightly unimpressive for the most part), but I didn't want the regular creatures to upstage the new vehicles. You should want to use vehicles, not forget them in favor of standard creatures. Which isn't to say creatures in my set are useless, green in particular isn't keen on these unnatural war machines so its creatures stand on their own quite well. White's weenies love the idea of coming together to pilot big machines so in white you see a slight decline in the efficiency of its mid-range and up guys. Blue sees the machines as using science and progress to beget power, so blue is oddly enough the color most into vehicles. It has a lot of creatures that give bonuses to vehicles they're attached to (not unlike Tissandier above) and the standard blue creatures with activated abilities fit really well on vehicles since they can do their thing while also allowing for a big, nasty finisher to swing. Black's sort of on the fence, it's used to regular creatures. It knows how to deal with creatures. Vehicles can't be frightened to death, or sickened, or tricked, or animated with necromancy - black's at a loss with these things. Apart from green, black is the color with the least love for vehicles, although it doesn't strictly hate them, either (it just doesn't know how to deal with them, some black creatures are eager to use vehicles for their own underhanded means). Red love them, but very simply and in a straightforward way. Red loves vehicles in that they give it something new and big and blow-up-able to ride into war on. Red's the guy hanging out the window on a suicidal charge tossing molotov cocktails everywhere. The overall effect is that you're not forced to use vehicles to play effectively with the set, but there are incentives to make you want to. I approached it a lot like equipment in that way.
i have made a 65-card expansion to the Victindia set, the one thats around here....somewhere....and called it "the monochrome era". I'm not sure how to expand further into another set, but with the first Victindia i used victorian literature, and made it into a world, a la "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen". "Victindia: The Monochrome Era" deals similarly, but utilizes steampunk works by Wells, Verne, and others. Might I suggest taking some degree of inspiration from me? I will, i suppose, edit my thread to include the expansion.
Good luck.
Thanks! Though I really do try to avoid using other people's work as inspiration, I feel bad enough that my vehicle concept was a take off from Athani's.
But since the set is more or less complete, I suppose looking at yours won't result in too much crossover.
[P.S. -- Despite Steamflogger Boss' name, he seems more of a dieselpunk than steampunk. Riggers in general aren't really steampunk, although anachronisms could make that possible, like with all steampunk/etc.]
I'm looking at steampunk much in the same way WotC looked at Japanese mythology and culture for Kamigawa: a basis for inspiration, but not a strict guideline. If it feels like it fits, I'm not overly concerned with it if it technically doesn't. I'm sure steampunk doesn't generally have Kor or Frog-men, let alone Kithkin or Vedalken, but my set does. At some point, I had to take some liberties with the concept of steampunk.
Sorry. I re-read the thread and changed the 'contraption' before you posted to not be a creature.
I guess this moot at this point anyway. If your not going for the Boss, you don't want the Contraptions anyway.
I still like the idea of having vehicles that do something even when no one is driving. Let me see.
Armed Defence Grid5
Artifact- Vehicle
Flying
Creatures attacking you get -1/-0.
Operate 1
2/2
Field Super-Steam Computer5
Artifact- Vehicle
Permanent spells you play cost 1 less to play.
Operate 6
4/6
Meh, I liked the mana rig the best.
Or maybe something like:
Mobil Machine Gun Platform4
Artifact- Vehicle
First Strike
~ may have any number of creatures attached to it, and gets +1/+0 for each creature attached to it.
Creatures attached ~ to have "T: This creature deals 1 damage to target creature or player."
Operate 2
0/4
I still like the idea of having vehicles that do something even when no one is driving. Let me see.
Armed Defence Grid5
Artifact- Vehicle
Flying
Creatures attacking you get -1/-0.
Operate 1
2/2
Field Super-Steam Computer5
Artifact- Vehicle
Permanent spells you play cost 1 less to play.
Operate 6
4/6
Again, I don't like the flavor of vehicles doing things on their own. It's bad enough that a dragon can pick up a warmaul then get on a blimp and pilot it, I can at least justify that by saying that it'd make the cards too complicated to have the flavor make perfect sense.
I tried to keep the static effects on the regular artifacts in the set as a way of maintaining distinctions between them.
Meh, I liked the mana rig the best.
Or maybe something like:
Mobil Machine Gun Platform4
Artifact- Vehicle
First Strike
~ may have any number of creatures attached to it, and gets +1/+0 for each creature attached to it.
Creatures attached ~ to have "T: This creature deals 1 damage to target creature or player."
Operate 2
0/4
Too crazy?
A vehicle can have as many creatures attached to it as you want (though that doesn't mean a card can't be printed that sets a limit), but otherwise a similar card is already in my set.
Forepooler 3
Artifact - Vehicle [R]
Forcepooler’s power is equal to the total combined power of creatures operating it.
Operate 3 (3: Attach a creature you control to this Vehicle or unattach a creature from it. Creatures attached to this Vehicle can’t attack or block and this vehicle can’t attack or block unless a creature is attached to it. When this Vehicle leaves play, sacrifice all creatures attached to it.)
*/5
Teliferous Gunship 3
Artifact - Vehicle [R]
Flying
Creatures operating Teliferous Gunship have “T: This Teliferous Gunship deals 1 damage to target creature.”
Operate 3 (3: Attach a creature you control to this Vehicle or unattach a creature from it. Creatures attached to this Vehicle can’t attack or block and this vehicle can’t attack or block unless a creature is attached to it. When this Vehicle leaves play, sacrifice all creatures attached to it.)
6/6
Between the two of them, you get the full effect of your card, though a bit more powerful in some respects.
Some of the rare vehicles have pretty wild abilities, ones that beg you to get as many creatures on board as you can (remember, you have to justify overextending when a single Shatter can get not just your vehicle, but all the guys inside, too).
I tried to keep the static effects on the regular artifacts in the set as a way of maintaining distinctions between them.
At this point, I agree with you. After making those two cards I realized the whole idea was a bad one.
I just realized this was an already made set........ now I feel extra foolish..... I am so used to these threads being 'I am thinking about making set XYZ.'
or just a list of cards.
I guess I should just wait until you post the whole set. Seems like a fun one. I will enjoy reading it.
At this point, I agree with you. After making those two cards I realized the whole idea was a bad one.
It's not even really a terrible idea, it just doesn't work in this particular set. I want vehicles to remain relatively simple for now, but in future uses I can see expanding what they do.
I just realized this was an already made set........ now I feel extra foolish..... I am so used to these threads being 'I am thinking about making set XYZ.'
or just a list of cards.
I guess I should just wait until you post the whole set. Seems like a fun one. I will enjoy reading it.
MSE2 is being a dick or I'm being a nimrod. Either way, I've having issues exporting the set to html. And the idea of posting each card individually makes me sad.
Instead I'll take you on a tour of the plane (or at least the continent we visit in this set).
The largest single settlement on Archatmos is Arkwright, a massive industrialized city that's home to hundreds of thousands. Located on the west coast of the landmass, the city began as a center of industry, using its location on a series of high cliffs near both water and a mountain range home to vital ore and coal to its advantage. The first to claim the area were the Vedalken who left their ancestral home in Sudlund in favor of increasing their wealth and technological reach. They employed humans, goblins and elves in their factories and the surge in industry eventually gave rise to the city of Arkwright. As the city expanded, it reached the eastern edge of the bluffs it was built on. The ground below had become something of a swamp as a result of industrial and muncipal runoff. To avoid expanding the city onto that, the Vedalken chose to build massive plates not unlike those of Midgar to make room for the city's growth.
Arkwright itself is run by a Magistrate who oversees the departments that run the city from his tower in the city's business district. The true rulers of the city are the leaders of two particular business groups: the Vedalken Machlords who initially brought industry to the area and the Bomani Counselate who struck a partnership with the Vedalken using their connections to the requisite raw natural materials the Vedalken needed. These two businesses have a hand in everything from industry and trade to diplomacy and military. Arkwright, in fact, is protected not by its own army, but the air force controlled by the Vedalken.
Machlord of Arkwright 4U
Creature - Vedalken Wizard [u]
Artifacts you control have “1, T: Tap target artifact.”
1/4
Arkwright Mistmage 3U
Creature - Vedalken Wizard [R]
Whenever an artifact you control becomes the target of a spell or ability you don’t control, you may draw a card. The air above Arkwright is thick with clouds produced by its industry. Hidden within the heavy banks are magical grids intended to alert the Vedalken of uninvited guests. 2/3
The Bomani are a race of slothful leonine people. They were once proud warriors but generations after they used tribal connections with nearby races to join with the Vedalken they have lost their pride. Now they're quite content to stew in their own greed and power. The Counselate does not take an active part in Arkwright's plays for more power in Archatmos (they leave that to the Vedalken) but they do take special interest in keeping themselves on the better end of all that goes on within the city. Ambition has taken the place of their warrior spirit, but for now they allow the Vedalken to do the heavy lifting as a cat would toy with a mouse. The Bomani are led by a particularly devious member named Guilford who considers himself the unofficial king of Arkwright who is merely biding his time until the Vedalken have outlived their purpose.
Counselate Bailiff 2BB
Creature - Cat Rogue [R]
When Counselate Bailiff comes into play, search target player’s library for a card and remove it from the game face down. That player then shuffles his or her library.
Whenever Counselate Bailiff deals combat damage to a player, you may play the removed card without paying its mana cost.
3/2
Guilford 2BBB
Legendary Creature - Cat Advisor [R]
Whenever you sacrifice a creature, you may pay XB. If you do, target opponent reveals X cards from his or her hand and discards two cards of your choice.
2/4
Guilford may not seem powerful at first glance, but remember that a destroyed vehicle results in all the guys inside getting sacrificed. In addition, another keyword I have yet to reveal involves creature sacrifice as well and another allows black to use sacrifice outlets without losing anything from the board.
Life in Arkwright has changed in the past decade or so. Childeric, the Vedalken leader had grown tired of the workers in his factories fighting for more. They wanted more wages, increased safety, cleaner factories - all things that would cut into the bottom line. So Childeric did what all great corporate dogs do - he fired all the factory workers and gave them the opportunity to enroll in Arkwright's famed Military Academy. Childeric replaced the workers with alchemy-created entities called homunculi. These homunculi were magically augmented to obey all commands without thought or question, require little to no sleep or food, demand nothing and work for free. For Childeric, they were the perfect example of progress and efficiency. Industrial output skyrocketed, profits went through the roof and the resulting influx of former workers into the military increased Arkwright's power for expansion. Arkwright slowly stopped bartering and negotiating with other communities and began to simply take what they wanted from them. Arkwright, once known as a city of opportunity and progress became a city of tyrranny and decadence.
Rebellion has become common. The forest of Adnascentia to the south attacks frequently with its beasts. The dwarven kingdoms to the north, once an eager supplier of ore and coal, have become stubborn and unruly. The now-polluted treefolk of Sedgewood lodge incursions from the swamps beneath the city. And worst of all are the Kor, who have begun fighting Arkwright's laws and became pirates using their swift ships to raid and escape without capture. Childeric has augmented his defenses just as he did his factories, with artificial lifeforms created through alchemy and science. These drones are much like the homunculi in design (they lack free will and are as a result flawlessly loyal) but are built not for dexterity and labor, but for war.
Geardancer Familiar 1U
Creature - Homunculus [C]
Protection from artifacts with a converted mana cost of three or more Bred with alchemy for tasks deemed too dangerous for other races or too delicate for the Frannion caste, the homunculi were the machinist’s version of Arkwright’s defense drones. Silent, obedient and utterly controlled.
2/1
Diminutive Fetch U
Creature - Humunculus [C] “Your reliance on the homunculi is worrying to us, Childeric. They have not proved to be as perfectly obedient as promised. Beings crafted for flawless servitude should not be capable of even minute mistakes. And yet three times this month alone production has ground to a halt as a result of the fetches’ incompetence. Bring your house under order, or we will.” -a letter from Guilford to Childeric
0/3
Rigorous Drone 4WU
Creature - Drone [C]
Reprisal (If this permanent would deal enough combat damage to its attackers to destroy them, you may have it deal the rest of its damage to attacking player.)
5/4
Can Arkwright hold it together or will it crumble beneath the heavy greed of its ruling class? That's one question facing Tissandier as he embarks on a journey that will take him all over Archatmos.
MSE2 is being a dick or I'm being a nimrod. Either way, I've having issues exporting the set to html. And the idea of posting each card individually makes me sad.
Well, What I do for my sets is export all of the cards, do a mass upload to a Photobucket file, and then photobucket gives me the IMG code for all of the photo's in the file. Cut, Paste, add some breakers, done.
I normally upload the files into 'common' 'uncommon' 'rare' folders. I do that by organizing them by rarity in MSE and then deleting all but one kind, mass export, reload the set again. Repeat.
Side note:
Concoct seems crazy powerful. Dawnwort Fumes would be a 3-4 for one card in your hand. Get a thirst for knowledge and a boomerang. Or two whiteremoval spells. Or some kinda mix of all of that....
AND counter a spell?
Seems like a better cryptic command.
Well, What I do for my sets is export all of the cards, do a mass upload to a Photobucket file, and then photobucket gives me the IMG code for all of the photo's in the file. Cut, Paste, add some breakers, done.
I normally upload the files into 'common' 'uncommon' 'rare' folders. I do that by organizing them by rarity in MSE and then deleting all but one kind, mass export, reload the set again. Repeat.
So it doesn't just export to text at all?
dammit
Side note:
Concoct seems crazy powerful. Dawnwort Fumes would be a 3-4 for one card in your hand. Get a thirst for knowledge and a boomerang. Or two whiteremoval spells. Or some kinda mix of all of that....
AND counter a spell?
Seems like a better cryptic command.
In all fairness, not all concoct cards are on par with that one. For black and white in particular, they rarely get to fetch more than one card and the limit on CMC is generally lower than the rest. Blue and red fare a bit better, but the trade is that their concoct spells tend to be much more situational and/or straight-up weak (in terms of built-in effects).
I've been dulling the concoct cards a bit over time. They used to be far more open (concocting 3 cards up to 7 CMC for three mana, etc), but as you say, they may yet require more toning down. Perhaps I'm putting too much focus on the fact that you actually have to have the cards somewhere in the deck and remove them from the game (and thus give up a chance to use them later).
The Bomani are a race of slothful leonine people. They were once proud warriors but generations after they used tribal connections with nearby races to join with the Vedalken they have lost their pride.
I don't know if you intentionally used the leonine-pride pun, but I think it's quite amusing.
I like your idea of using the Cat tribe in their domestic sense. Quite good.
Rigorous Drone 4WU
Creature - Drone [C]
Reprisal (If this permanent would deal enough combat damage to its attackers to destroy them, you may have it deal the rest of its damage to attacking player.)
5/4
Yay, blockers' trample. I want this to happen in an actual set, as well as cleave or whatever that "horizontal-trample" mechanic is called.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Do I Contradict Myself? Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
Yeah, the best it can do is export to a MWS-formatted text file, which is the suck for posting on a forum.
Crap. Maybe I should nag Pichoro.
I don't know if you intentionally used the leonine-pride pun, but I think it's quite amusing.
I like your idea of using the Cat tribe in their domestic sense. Quite good.
It was intentional, and I'm sorry.
The Bomani (which has roots in a real-ish word fyi, many of the names in the set do in some way) were my attempt to take the now-common Magic race of cat-people and spinning them away from the typical feral warrior race and, as you said, more towards the lazy, sneak domesticated version.
Yay, blockers' trample. I want this to happen in an actual set, as well as cleave or whatever that "horizontal-trample" mechanic is called.
Me too, which is why I thought of it. I was looking for a mechanic for creatures to overlap white, blue and green. Something functional but not anything that would overshadow everything else in the set. Red and black had frenzy (from Future Sight), but the other three needed a bit extra as well. Defensive-trample (Reprisal) fit the colors and served the purpose of giving the creatures something to do apart from the vehicles. Not to mention it really fit with the flavor I was going for with Arkwright's Drones.
Heyy, nice to see someone else making a steampunk set. I never bothered to finish my own, since I started to see various problems with the mechanics and other things, so after a while I just lost interest (which I've done to all the sets I've started on, really. )
I like your take on the operate mechanic, so I hope you'll be able to do more interesting things with it than I did. I also rather like the flavor of this set, it looks really interesting and well developed.
Looking forward to seeing the rest of your set Mikey.
Just in general some possible problems I see that might come up, and how to avoid them:
On vehicles:
1) Hollow Warrior never saw any play, even in limited. Cards that need other cards to do anything are generally bad.
2) Creature Enchantments don't really see play because getting two for one'ed is very bad.
3) Even agro decks don't really get more than 3 creatures to stick on the field in constructed. And really don't want to play more then 3 creatures because of Warth effects.
Possible Fixes:
1) Make all cards better than Hollow Man. (which it seems you have done :D)
2) I do not know why shattering a STEAM powered thing would kill everyone in side.(even indestructible things inside) Just get ride of that rule. Steam powered stuff is not really that explosive anyway.
3) Don't have too many cards that interact with more than one creature in them, and those that do make very good.
Concoct:
1) Merchant Scroll is restricted in type 1, and sees play in all formates its legal in.
2) The more choices a card gives you, the better it is. These cards are like split cards to start, since they give you two mod's on how to play them, but then give you EVEN MORE choices.
3) Searching for spells is POWERFUL. Searching and playing spells for free is... well.... Getting to search for 2 more spells and play them is.. 2-3 spells for one card.... yeah....
4)Lots of different numbers, ability is complicated.
Possible Fixes:
Concoct X (Search your library for up to one card that share a color and type with this card and with a total converted mana cost of X or less. Remove that cards from the game and add its effect to this spell. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
Side note
Dawnwort Fumes: Two mana counterspells are hard to come by nowadays, since they got ride of Mana Leak. So the base card itself is pretty good.
Heyy, nice to see someone else making a steampunk set. I never bothered to finish my own, since I started to see various problems with the mechanics and other things, so after a while I just lost interest (which I've done to all the sets I've started on, really. )
Preaching to the choir on that one. I have a folder of 20 or so sets that are either barely started, unfinished, finished & terrible or finished expansions based on actual sets (I call them Reduxes). This will be the first original set I've finished that's worth posting. I have another half-block but, despite having interesting ideas in it, is not a very well made group of sets.
I like your take on the operate mechanic, so I hope you'll be able to do more interesting things with it than I did.
I hope I did. I'm still trying to nail down power levels with them. I want to push them, but it's hard to know when the power has been pushed just to the right place. For every card, I had to ask a lot of questions (Is it too expensive? Is the ability worth using? Will people want to risk attaching creatures just to make this work? etc)
I also rather like the flavor of this set, it looks really interesting and well developed.
Thank you. I actually have a whole storyline more or less worked out. And given my expanse of free time, I've considered actually writing it. You know, put my degree and years of experience to actual use.
Looking forward to seeing the rest of your set Mikey.
I look forward to posting it. I'm working on dividing the set up to export to MWS text so I can format it and C&P here. Might be a while. In the meantime, I'll do a bit more world-building previews.
-----
So we've met the main attraction to the world in the form of Arkwright, but the industrial center isn't the end of the plane. It's not even the only city (but we'll leave the hamlet of Sudlund and the Alsace Dukedom for another time). Arkwright, though, has enemies. Considering its clout, that is not surprising. Even the self-involved, uninformed public of Arkwright knows that there are those out beyond their tall city that hate them. The people of Arkwright of course just assume that these rebels are just envious of the progressive, valuable lives they live. Arkwright is the land of endless possibility where every engineer, shopkeep and stack-sweeper is putting their effort toward something glorious. Surely any who would fight against that are savages, untamed and unclean and lacking in intellegence or awareness.
Enter Adnascentia, the last great forest of Archatmos, the rest felled to fuel Arkwright's insatiable need for supplies. What exactly lurks within the forest is largely unclear. All that Arkwright knows for sure is that the early logging groups sent to Adnascentia disappeared and were not heard from again and that all further attempts to investigate were thwarted by unseen forces. Even the nearby Kithkin village of Wilshire seems affected, the kith gone missing and their village a barren ghost town. Legends speak of ghosts and invisible monsters, but the Vedalken are skeptical and somewhat frustrated by their lack of knowledge in this area. Something they don't control is standing in their way. They want the natural resources of Adnascentia as well as a cleared route for future convoys, but they can't get close enough to solve the problem. All attempts have failed and now convoys a fair distance from the forest are vanishing. The Bomani are growing restless and paranoid and the Vedalken are losing their calm, cool control.
What dwells in the forest?
Grovetender 3G
Creature - Plant Archer [C]
Reprisal (If this permanent would deal enough combat damage to its attackers to destroy them, you may have it deal the rest of its damage to attacking player.)
Whenever Grovetender deals combat damage to an opponent, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
3/3
Dealiest Bloom 2GG
Creature - Plant Warrior [u]
Vanquish — 1GG (When this permanent becomes blocked by a creature, you may pay its vanquish cost. If you do, sacrifice this creature and destroy that creature.)
3/3
The Verdic Grovechildren are a new race on Archatmos, tall, wirey beings who like treefolk are sentient plants. They aren't trees given thought, however, they resemble men made of stalks, vines, moss and flowers. The Kithkin believed them to be nature's anger given form. Their actions lend credence to that, the Grovechildren emerge from their seedpods eager to destroy all that's unnatural and anyone who works against nature. They're just getting used to the world around them and are starting to venture beyond the forest. What the scouts are seeing pains the race. Civilization, industry, deforestation, pollution ... the blatant disrespect and exploitation of nature. The Grovechildren have identified Arkwright as the worst cancer of all this and are determined to destroy it to reclaim the land.
But they're not alone.
Chitterguard Liege 1G
Creature - Kithkin Shaman [R]
Whenever you concoct a spell, you may put a 1/1 green Squirrel creature token into play. “We kithkin are born to devote ourselves to community and family. Nature is our community now and all that dwell within it our family.” -Felhaust
0/2
In the days leading up to the birth of the Verdic Grovechildren, the nearby Kithkin of Wilshire began experiencing anomolous interactions with their innate thoughtweft. Where once they heard only the feelings and thoughts of the kith community, they began hearing new voices and foreign feelings. They tracked the intrusion upon their link to the forest and the Grovechildren. The newly-birthed Grovechildren saw Gaea's plan in the connection between the races and granted the Kithkin sanctuary provided they turn to the natural path. The Kithkin who did so were rewarded with a new thoughtweft, a connection not just between family or the kith and Grovechildren, but a connection to all the fauna of Adnascentia from lowly rodents to towered bears. The Kithkin who refused to leave Wilshire vanished, leaving the rest to name their new commune in the forest in honor of their lost families.
But if the Kithkin of Wilshire are green, where does that leave the elves in my set? Homeless. Their forest was demolished by the Vedalken decades ago, leaving them without a place to call their own. The elders began settling into small farming communities collectively called Heathspun Homes in an attempt to reseestablish their connection with nature. Elfkind youth, however, wanted to pursue life in the cities convinced as they were that Gaea had foresaken them and they now had to eke out a new life for themselves. They were admonished by the elders and the elven race divided. The elves of Heathspun Home struggle to this day to survive on the open plains, but the rebellious youth have thrived. Their natural dexterity and enhanced senses providing them an edge in the piloting of Arkwright's many monolithic war machines. In fact, Arkwright's military is comprised almost a full 40% by elves once the number of drones are omitted. One such elf has risen through the ranks and was the first to command his own skyship, an honor previously only bestowed to Vedalken. He has become a hero not just for his own kind, but for all the down-trodden of Arkwright. He represented possibility, gleaming and true, the result of dedication and hard work.
Phinnaes 1WW
Legendary Creature - Elf Warrior [R]
First strike; Protection from black
As long as Phinnaes is operating a vehicle, the operated vehicle gets +1/+1 and has first strike and protection from red.
2/2
And his ship:
Aeroqueen Eternal 3
Legendary Artifact - Vehicle [R]
Flying
Whenever Aeroqueen Eternal becomes blocked, put a +1/+1 counter on it for each creature operating it. 1, Remove a +1/+1 counter from Aeroqueen Eternal: Aeroqueen Eternal deals 2 damage to target creature blocking or blocked by it this turn.
Operate 3
5/5
Phinnaes has a younger sister named Delphine who wants nothing more than to follow in her brother's mighty footsteps. A chance encounter with Tissandier is what leads the two on their adventure across Archatmos.
1) Hollow Warrior never saw any play, even in limited. Cards that need other cards to do anything are generally bad.
Agreed in general, but players will use those cards if they're worthwhile. Technically, equipment are the same way and yet they very frequently see play. Obviously a deck can't have a lot of vehicles in it if it expects to get them operational often, but they at least run on cards that most players are running anyway.
2) Creature Enchantments don't really see play because getting two for one'ed is very bad.
I agree. But again, there are ways around that. Having the benefit outweigh the risk is one. Having the potential for 2-for-1-ing lowered is another. The last mechanic I have yet to reveal works well toward that. (I'll reveal it when I preview the Kor, who use the ability fairly extensively and make for very good vehicle crews).
3) Even agro decks card really get more than 3 creatures to stick on the field in constructed. And really don't want to play more then 3 creatures because of Warth effects.
I'm not balancing the set in accordance with what's in Standard at the moment. As long as it plays well enough in block, I'm happy. And this block has two wrath effects worth mentioning. The regular white one costs five and only hits creatures with power 4 and up. The green one costs seven as a result of exactly the problem you're bringing up here.
I'm trying to create a slower environment with more control and a little less efficient removal. I want players to be able to get out five guys, hop them all on a ship and have them sail over with cannons blazing. I want players to have the freedom to be safe enough from aggro that they can cast a spell with concoct and get the glee of chaining two awesome spells onto it.
Other, real, blocks have tried to achieve similar states. Onslaught, Lorwyn and Masques most memorably.
[U]Possible Fixes:[/U]
1) Make all cards better than Hollow Man. (which it seems you have done :D)
Hhaahaha, not a problem. All vehicles have higher power and toughness to casting cost, for a start. And if they don't, it's for good reason.
2) I do not know why shattering a STEAM powered thing would kill everyone in side.(even indestructible things inside) Just get ride of that rule. Steam powered stuff is not really that explosive anyway.
I just imagine it as a blimp getting blown out of the sky. Ain't no one walking away from that mess. It's easy to think of a sword just falling to the ground when the holder dies, but what happens to the crew of a crashing vehicle?
3) Don't have too many cards that interact with more than one creature in them, and those that do make very good.
All vehicles work just fine with one guy inside. There's one that is optimal with two crew members and several that have scaling effects based on the number of guys on board. But that last group tends to offer significant benefits to risks.
1) Merchant Scroll is restricted in type 1, and sees play in all formates its legal in.
I see your point.
2) The more choices a card gives you, the better it is. These cards are like split cards to start, since they give you two mod's on how to play them, but then give you EVEN MORE choices.
Which isn't in and of itself a bad thing. Open-ended flexibility is what this mechanic wants, too many restrictions and it's just no longer worth it.
3) Searching for spells is POWERFUL. Searching and playing spells for free is... well.... Getting to search for 2 more spells and play them is.. 2-3 spells for one card.... yeah....
So then the main issue is the searching then? Splice did almost the same thing with cards in hand, allowing you many spells on one card. And it didn't result in the cards you were splicing on getting removed from the game.
4)Lots of different numbers, ability is complicated.
Valros' wording of concoct as an action word solves pretty much all the complication issues. I've decided that it's a great solution and I'll switch the cards over to use that wording.
Side note
Dawnwort Fumes: Two mana counterspells are hard to come by nowadays, since they got ride of Mana Leak. So the base card itself is pretty good.
Adding either 1 to the cost or substracting 1 from the Leak effect is not a big thing, and both probably ease the card back enough.
So then the main issue is the searching then? Splice did almost the same thing with cards in hand, allowing you many spells on one card. And it didn't result in the cards you were splicing on getting removed from the game.
The searching was part of it. One of the reasons Splice was 'bad' because you had to have the card in your hand for it to work. But the REAL reason it was not that good was the "arcane" bit, making it so it could only interact with cards in the same set.
Yours gets around that problem, which is defiantly a good thing. I just feel you might have gone a step to far.
However, if your only worried about block, then this post is very moot. At least until I see the whole set..... Yeah, I should just shut up till I see the whole thing.
I understand what your saying, but I still feel the ability to get get multiple cards and play them for free is a bit too flexible.
The searching was part of it. One of the reasons Splice was 'bad' because you had to have the card in your hand for it to work. But the REAL reason it was not that good was the "arcane" bit, making it so it could only interact with cards in the same set.
Yours gets around that problem, which is defiantly a good thing. I just feel you might have gone a step to far.
So would a good compromise be making the cost to concoct a bit higher? Obviously upping the cost of the card itself is undesirable (no one will want to play with a Twiddle that costs four or five mana), but perhaps upping the concoct cost itself to Buyback-Flashback levels might suffice.
For Dawnwort Fumes, upping the cost to concoct up to 2WU (therefore making the whole thing 2WWUU for a Leak plus up to two blue and/or white instants of up to five CMC). That almost seems too much, but the incredible flexibility makes it worth it since the effect will often be a mini-Ultimatum.
However, if your only worried about block, then this post is very moot. At least until I see the whole set..... Yeah, I should just shut up till I see the whole thing.
Block is my main focus but I do want to keep it more or less in line with what would fit with actual Magic. I want it to feel like a real block even if particular interactions may be of some concern.
I'm still not sure concoct is totally balanced for block, often problematic interactions escape me since I am only one set of eyes. So outside opinions are greatly appreciated.
For Dawnwort Fumes, upping the cost to concoct up to 2WU (therefore making the whole thing 2WWUU for a Leak plus up to two blue and/or white instants of up to five CMC). That almost seems too much, but the incredible flexibility makes it worth it since the effect will often be a mini-Ultimatum.
But you see, it only would have a CC of 5 when you WANTED it to. Your still looking at mana leak, which sees alot of play, and on top of that, if you feel like it, its also a 5 mana spell that does more or less whatever you want it to.
I am still pushing for my nerded version. I know its hard to nerf a card or idea you love... God do I know, and often times I don't anyway. So if you want to go for it to make the set cool, just do it. But know that it is very over powered. The effect of tutoring something and playing it for free, when was it done before? and at what cost? Cord of Calling, or Tinker?
But you see, it only would have a CC of 5 when you WANTED it to. Your still looking at mana leak, which sees alot of play, and on top of that, if you feel like it, its also a 5 mana spell that does more or less whatever you want it to.
Technically, Dawnwort Fumes only has 685 singular cards to search for. Most of which are not so powerful to be a concern for me to get tacked onto a Leak for 2WWUU or are pricey enough to limit the additional spell you can get. I mean your options in terms of what'd be in your decks are realistically a massive amount more limited than that 685-card list. In a deck, you may only have a total of 12 cards that Fumes can search for (which, if you overlooked it, more Fumes). For the average deck, these are all spells you were going to cast anyway so I'm not scared of trading off the potential to play them later for paying more and playing them now. Yes, the flexibility is insane, but mostly just at the deckbuilding phase. In play, even in a dedicated concoct deck you won't have so many available cards to find that the possibilities are crushingly near-limitless. And I think for the price, being able to 'play' a Condemn and make the opponent pay 6 more for target spell isn't warpingly overpowered. It is powerful, I don't disagree, but I'm not at the point where I think it's too powerful to print. I think at most it'll need some numbers adjusted slightly.
I am still pushing for my nerded version. I know its hard to nerf a card or idea you love... God do I know, and often times I don't anyway. So if you want to go for it to make the set cool, just do it. But know that it is very over powered. The effect of tutoring something and playing it for free, when was it done before? and at what cost? Cord of Calling, or Tinker?
Technically, neither do anything like this.
Kaho does, but makes you pay the CMC of the card you play. I simply switched when you pay it. Paying a concoct cost serves the same role as Kaho's X, T ability. It keeps players honest. You can't cheat a huge, gamebreaker spell that costs 7+ with Kaho, and you can't with concoct, either. You still pay mana to 'copy' the spell, and it places limits on the size and number of spells you can get. Kaho is vulnerable as a creature, but allows you to play fetched cards whenever, concoct requires you to play the spell first (many need viable targets to play targetting) and has the vulnerability of getting countered (which is bound to happen in a slower, control-slanted environment). Kaho limits the number of spells you can get just like concoct, but concoct puts a far greater limitation on how big the spells can be.
Mind's Desire and Temporal Apeture both do something similar, but they both had power issues either not directly related to the ability or related directly to the size and color of spells you were getting for free.
Then there's Sunforger which requires mana investment and a creature to equip but little else. Otherwise, it's got many of the same limitations as concoct except where concoct can chain multiple spells at once, Sunforger needs time to repeat itself. Sunforger is actually capable of slinging more instants than a Dawnwort Fumes can, just for a slightly larger cost in mana.
Apart from them, this concept isn't used very often. My main focus is on Kaho and basically how to replicate his ability in spell form.
The result is Archatmos, a world of complex automatons, clockwork machinery, alchemy and adventure. It's far less futuristic in tone than Mirrodin and a bit more like Lorwyn in that the world is a bit whimsical and not at all dark or bleak. Loosely themed on Europe during the Industrial Revolution, the plane is home to many races (from agrarian Elves, nature-loving Kithkin and sneaky Kor privateers to polluted Treefolk, industrious Vedalken and scatter-brained goblin alchemists). I tried to envision a place mixing Lorwyn's feel with the mechanized, steampunk-design of FFXII. Archatmos is a world of powerful organizations and their world-polluting industry, conflict over natural resources fought with steam-powered war machines, law-defying rogues evading capture with their own flying ships and agents of nature rebelling against the grip of civilization.
The main focus of the set is divided between two common steampunk tropes: alchemy and giant, steam-propelled vehicles.
The concept of vehicles will be handled via a new artifact subtype: the aptly-named Vehicle. Like Athani, I envisioned vehicles as sort of reverse equipment. Vehicles have power and toughness like creatures but are unable to attack or block unless creatures are operating them. Enter the Operate keyword which functions just like equip.
Operate 3 (3: Attach a creature you control to this Vehicle or unattach a creature from it. Creatures attached to this Vehicle can’t attack or block and this vehicle can’t attack or block unless a creature is attached to it. When this Vehicle leaves play, sacrifice all creatures attached to it.)
Wordy, but fairly grokkable. A player can play an operate ability whenever he could a sorcery and in doing so attaches a creature he or she controls to the vehicle. The operating creature(s) can no longer attack or block themselves, but they can still tap or play activated abilities. Operating creatures can still be targetted by other spells or abilities (everything from Shock and Terror to Boomerang and Healing Salve). Operated vehicles can attack & block as well as deal and receive damage like creatures but they themselves (despite having power and toughness) do not count as creatures. They are unaffected by effects that deal only with creatures. Effects that deal with them specifically state so. Additionally, vehicles that are destroyed while operated take all operating creatures with them a blimp blown out of the sky takes everyone on board with it.
And example of a vehicle in card form:
Cloudship Titan 3
Artifact - Vehicle [u]
Flying
Operate 4
6/5
So for three mana you get a 6/5 vehicle with flying, but before it can engage in combat it requires that you control another creature and pay four mana to attach that creature to it. Should the Cloudship be destroyed, all creatures operating it are sacrificed as well.
The set has the usual basic effects that usually deal with creatures but now also (and in some cases, exclusively) deal with vehicles (pump, damage, resurrection, damage prevention, pacifism, etc) as well as creatures who give benefits to vehicles they operate such as our young hero, Tissandier, a Vedalken boy who wishes to escape his meager city life and fulfill his dream of commanding his own skyship.
Tissandier 2U
Legendary Creature - Vedalken Scout [R]
Protection from spells and abilities
1U: Untap target operated vehicle. Play this ability only if Tissandier is operating a vehicle.
2/2
The other major mechanic is that of alchemy, which is represented in mechanical terms by the keyword Concoct. Concoct appears only on sorceries and instants and allows players to essentially build their own spells by layering additionals spells on like ingredients in alchemy.
Concoct 2 — 2 2 (Search your library for up to two cards that share a color and type with this card and with a total converted mana cost of two or less. Remove those cards from the game and add their effects to this spell. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
Concoct always lists two numbers after its cost. The first is the number of additional cards you can search for and the second limits the total converted mana cost of cards you can mix onto the original spell. For instance, a blue instant with the above ability allows you to pay an additional 2 as you play the spell. If you do, you search your library for up to two other blue instants that have a converted mana cost of no more than two. Those cards are removed from the game and their effects added to the main spell.
The result is a mechanic that works a lot like splice but limits you in the size, color and types of spells you can tack on. The trade off is the freedom of adding cards from your library and not just from your hand.
Dawnwort Fumes WU
Instant [c]
Concoct 3 — 2 5 (Search your library for up to two cards that share a color and type with this card and with a total converted mana cost of five or less. Remove those cards from the game and add their effects to this spell. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
Counter target spell unless its controller pays 3.
So for 3WU, you get a Mana Leak but you can customize two additional effects from your library as long as the cards are instants that are blue and/or white. A Raise the Alarm and a Repulse. Or a Disenchant and a Counterspell. Or two Condemns. Every spell you concoct is a totally unique effect (well, more or less) and the flexibility allows you a lot of freedom in both play and deckbuilding.
Three other major keywords are in the set, but are far less complicated and take up significantly less of the set so I'll leave the two big keywords to be commented on for now. The set is complete and once I sort out MSE2's exporting deal, I'll present the full set (all 355 cards) here.
And now here as well in image form. (credit to Soron for that)
**** EDIT ****
And now in MSE.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Operate [cost] ([cost]: Remove target creature you control from the game operating this Vehicle. Operate only as a sorcery. This Vehicle can't attack or block unless it's operated. When it leaves play, put all creatures operating it into their owner's graveyard.)
Something like that. Then, like Equip, you can probably dump the "can't attack or block" clause and maybe the next clause.
Concoct -- Cool. It's like imprint but... functional. My only concern is the two numbers, since that's really weird (and I'm not a fan of reinforce's number+cost combo anyway)... but I think I have a solution.
Concoct N — [cost] (As you play this spell, you may pay its concoct cost any number of times. Search your library for up to that many [color] [type] cards with total converted mana cost less than or equal to N. Remove those cards from the game and add their effects to this spell, then shuffle your library.)
Where [color] and [type] are the spell's colors and type.
Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
I wanted to keep it with attaching creatures for two reasons.
The first was the function of having the creatures available for interactions both good and bad.
With the creatures still technically in play, they can be removed via traditional spells and thus neutralizing the vehicle. That's very important for colors like blue and black, which can deal with creatures but not vehicles (black's edicts don't hit them, its -X/-X don't make flavor sense and neither do Terror-esque effects; and blue is going to be limited in its capacity to deal with artifacts). Allowing them to take out the creatures operating the vehicle in turn allows them to neutralize the vehicle. Much like Planeswalkers having several common answers in all colors, I want this new card type to be something that each color can answer without dedicating too many card slots on narrow hosers. Plus, if Vehicles are not hard to deal with, it frees me up to let them be a bit more powerful on their own (also important when introducing a new type, you want them to be impressive, not nerfed).
The other value in attaching creatures is that it allows me to use creatures attaching to vehicles in other ways. Chief amongst them are the Gremlins, a little red/green tribe who attach themselves to vehicles to wreak havoc.
I initially considered something more like Replicate, but given that the flavor of the world is decidedly Izzet in nature, I wanted to distance myself from their mechanic.
I agree that the two number system is somewhat clunky (it's allayed somewhat by the fact that no spell wit concoct lacks reminder text, which clarifies on each individual card which number corrosponds to which effect), but my alternative was to limit the number of spells you can graft on. My issue there was that no number seemed correct. One was too boring and restrictive and two wound up making certain spells very potent (thus backing me into the corner of upping the cost to prevent power issues). I knew I wanted blue and red to be the best at concoct (with black and white the 'worst'), but that was harder to accomplish when the number of spells you could fetch was fixed. Freeing the numbers to each be variable just seemed to make more sense even if it left the templating a bit ugly.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Oh, right. That makes sense, especially remembering the flavorful concept of shooting a guy out of his 'thopter or whatever.
Now that sounds cool.
As for concoct... could you make it an action word?
Dawnwort Fumes :symw::symu:
Instant [C]
You may pay an additional as you play CARDNAME. If you do, concoct up to two cards with total converted mana cost 5 or less. (Search your library for up to two cards that share a color and type with this, remove those cards from the game, and add their effects to this spell. Then shuffle your library.)
Counter target spell unless its controller pays :3mana:.
Or,
Dawnwort Fumes :symw::symu:
Instant (C)
Kicker
Counter target spell unless its controller pays :3mana:. If the kicker cost was paid, concoct up to two cards with total converted mana cost 5 or less. (Search your library for up to two cards that share a color and type with this, remove those cards from the game, and add their effects to this spell. Then shuffle your library.)
Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
Indeed. The flavor is the added bonus for me, making sure Vehicles could be balanced in terms of answers across the colors was my huge concern. I figure the flavor can be tweaked to fit the big issue is ensuring the design itself is balanced. I hope that it is.
The Gremlins popped in my head when I was thinking about a world filled with machines. They fit so effortlessly into the setting that they're probably the most natural inclusions beyond concoct and vehicles. My initial notes pegged them really early on as simple creatures whose natural curiosity draws them to the massive machines of the other races. They essentially make their homes in engines and boilers, but their innocent actions wind up causing chaos and destruction. They aren't malicious or even consciously mischievous, they're just trying to make a nest ... in all the wrong places.
Devastating Saboteur 1RR
Creature - Gremlin [R]
Whenever a vehicle Devastating Saboteur is attached to is put into a graveyard from play, you may put Devastating Saboteur into your hand rather than into your graveyard.
Whenever operated vehicle becomes tapped, its controller sacrifices it.
1R: Attach Devastating Saboteur to target vehicle.
2/2
(note that 'saboteur' in this case is meant to be ironic)
Holy **** that is friggin' perfect! I already had effects that trigger off of concocting a spell, but I never thought to just turn the whole mechanic into an action word. Stroke of brilliance. But can it be tweaked to work on permanents as well? I wonder if it might be able to be adapted to creatures to then represent alchemists themselves.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I like 4/4s for 7.
It is a bit to get, but once you grasp the basics it's really easy. It's a bit like Equipment and Planeswalkers that way.
So anyway you have two creatures (a 3/3 and a 2/1) and a vehicle (a 6/6). The creatures are not attached. They can attack and block but the vehicle can't. You pay its operate cost (like equip, you can only operate as a sorcery) and attach the 3/3 to the vehicle. Now the 3/3 can't attack or block but the vehicle can. Next turn, you decide you want the 2/1 operating the vehicle as well (some vehicles gain stats or abilities based on the number or quality of creatures operating them) so you pay the operate cost a second time and attach the 2/1.
Now for whatever reason, the opponent isn't enjoying this. He's playing blue and black and is having a tough time with a 6/6 immune to its standard tricks (I'll get to what does and doesn't effect a vehicle in terms of basic effects in a sec). But the opponent has a pinger in play and a Last Gasp in hand. So he pings the 2/1 and kills it and then gives the 3/3 -3/-3 and kills that, which then leaves the vehicle without a pilot and it can no longer attack or block. The vehicle isn't destroyed as a result of its crew dying, but it can't operate on its own so it's useless without creatures driving it.
Now, the flipside of that is if the 3/3 and 2/1 have abilities of their own. Stuff like haste, flying and trample don't really carry over (it's the vehicle attacking or blocking, not the guys inside so the creatures operating the vehicle aren't considered attacking, blocking, blocked, unblocked, etc) but protection does still protect the creature, as does shroud. And activated abilities can still be played on operating creatures. So say the 2/1 has shroud and the 3/3 has "2, T: Counter target spell if it targets this creature." The 2/1 can't be targetted by the pinger and the 3/3 can use its activated ability to counter Last Gasp. Or, if you have pingers of your own, get them on board and they act like guys manning the cannons.
As for what does and doesn't affect vehicles, that's something I went back and forth on. At first I had them count as creatures entirely (so they could be targetted by Shock, etc), but that was horrible in terms of flavor. So now they don't count as creatures at all (the one rather major exception to that is the case of staple abilities that until now only worked on creatures: keywords like flying, first strike, trample and the rest would all be updated to allow them to function on vehicles as well). A card saying "Destroy target attacking creature" can't target an attacking vehicle (or even the guys inside since they aren't attacking) but a card saying "Destroy target attacking vehicle" can. I'll give some examples of staples that were tweaked for this set:
Astral Rejection 2W
Sorcery [u]
Remove target creature or vehicle from the game. Return it to play at end of turn.
Goldpress Avowal WW
Enchantment [R]
Vehicles you control get +1/+1.
Might of Inertia 2R
Instant [u]
Target creature or vehicle gets +3/+0 until end of turn.
Draw a card.
I think you get the point. Essentially, if it can target or affect a vehicle, the card will say so. Otherwise, it can't. Anything that targets just a creature can't target a vehicle and vice versa. Wrath of God leaves vehicles unharmed as does Earthquake. A Wrath-effect for vehicles will leave creatures untouched. A card that deals damage to permanents will indeed damage a vehicle.
The one place I think I really pushed it is with two effects. One that says "~ deals 2 damage to target artifact" and the prevention reversal of that effect. I figured you can deal damage to an equipment or Mindslaver or whatever but it just doesn't do anything. Though I readily admit that the templating on those two effects are potentially quite horrid. My intent was to allow them to deal with artifact creatures without explicitly saying so (one thing you'll quickly realize is that my set has absolutely no traditional artifact creatures, just vehicles).
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Just make assemble a keyword actions.
501.10a To assemble a permanent is to put a token copy of that permanent into play.
Rigger 2RR
Creature- Human Rigger
T: Assemble target nonlegendary artifact.
2/2
Instead of 'vehicles' why not call them 'contraptions?'
Mana Rig 2
Artifact - Contraption
~ comes into play tapped.
Operate 7
T: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
"That big rig does something even when there ain't anyone driving."
4/6
Makes the set more about making things and what not. Industrial revaluation magic.
i have made a 65-card expansion to the Victindia set, the one thats around here....somewhere....and called it "the monochrome era". I'm not sure how to expand further into another set, but with the first Victindia i used victorian literature, and made it into a world, a la "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen". "Victindia: The Monochrome Era" deals similarly, but utilizes steampunk works by Wells, Verne, and others. Might I suggest taking some degree of inspiration from me? I will, i suppose, edit my thread to include the expansion.
Good luck.
~Lil Kalki
[P.S. -- Despite Steamflogger Boss' name, he seems more of a dieselpunk than steampunk. Riggers in general aren't really steampunk, although anachronisms could make that possible, like with all steampunk/etc.]
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
No, the set's complete save for some flavor text and minor changes to cards to tweak overall power levels. Even if there were room, I wasn't likely to include them. Mostly because I never did like assembling, or at least any of the proposed versions of it. The Steamflogger does indeed fit in a steampunk setting, but I don't feel it fits in my set. It would neccessitate the inclusion of both Riggers and contraptions to assemble, both of which would need more slots than I'd be willing to devote to them.
Contraptions would be fighting for space with vehicles, and I honestly would rather just leave it at one complex new card type. Two new card types in one set (both of which with some learning curves) would just be way too much. There's nifty ambition and there's clogging your set with complication.
I'm content to leave assembling contraptions as a red herring.
Few reasons:
1) Rules people don't like the idea of creatures attaching to other creatures at all. Creatures attaching to a new card type seemed easier to get a pass on.
2) It implies that a creature type (Contraption) has rules baggage (assuming that in your example, operate works the same), which was done away with circa Kamigawa.
3) In terms of flavor, it's not what I want. Artifact creatures have the connotation of independent will, or at least independent locomotion. I wanted the new type to have the flavor of real vehicles which need people to operate them before they become active. Simply put, vehicles aren't creatures.
4) I considered making them artifact creatures with a defender-esque word to attain the flavor I want, but it ate up precious space (like Mirrodin with equipment, I want the reminder text on as many vehicles as I can get it on, and it is on all but the big, splashy, Legendary rare vehicles) and ended up being more restrictive than just doing it as a new type.
As far as your example card goes, I made it a rule of sorts that vehicles could not have activated abilities that could be used without being operated. It just made sense. It's not like a steam-powered dirigible has a sophisticated on-board computer to control its weapons systems or what have you. Some vehicles have activated abilities that depend on operating creatures, others give abilities to the operating creatures themselves, the key is that regardless of who has the ability, the vehicle needs creatures to run.
I didn't want to outclass creatures yet I needed vehicles to be powerful and impressive. The compromise was to appeal to flavor and require creatures to run the big ships. It makes the vehicles feel new and impressive while not replacing creatures as they could have.
The trade off on that is that the creatures in the set are just slightly less efficient than we're used to. They can still get the job done (they aren't universally weak, just slightly unimpressive for the most part), but I didn't want the regular creatures to upstage the new vehicles. You should want to use vehicles, not forget them in favor of standard creatures. Which isn't to say creatures in my set are useless, green in particular isn't keen on these unnatural war machines so its creatures stand on their own quite well. White's weenies love the idea of coming together to pilot big machines so in white you see a slight decline in the efficiency of its mid-range and up guys. Blue sees the machines as using science and progress to beget power, so blue is oddly enough the color most into vehicles. It has a lot of creatures that give bonuses to vehicles they're attached to (not unlike Tissandier above) and the standard blue creatures with activated abilities fit really well on vehicles since they can do their thing while also allowing for a big, nasty finisher to swing. Black's sort of on the fence, it's used to regular creatures. It knows how to deal with creatures. Vehicles can't be frightened to death, or sickened, or tricked, or animated with necromancy - black's at a loss with these things. Apart from green, black is the color with the least love for vehicles, although it doesn't strictly hate them, either (it just doesn't know how to deal with them, some black creatures are eager to use vehicles for their own underhanded means). Red love them, but very simply and in a straightforward way. Red loves vehicles in that they give it something new and big and blow-up-able to ride into war on. Red's the guy hanging out the window on a suicidal charge tossing molotov cocktails everywhere. The overall effect is that you're not forced to use vehicles to play effectively with the set, but there are incentives to make you want to. I approached it a lot like equipment in that way.
Thanks! Though I really do try to avoid using other people's work as inspiration, I feel bad enough that my vehicle concept was a take off from Athani's.
But since the set is more or less complete, I suppose looking at yours won't result in too much crossover.
I'm looking at steampunk much in the same way WotC looked at Japanese mythology and culture for Kamigawa: a basis for inspiration, but not a strict guideline. If it feels like it fits, I'm not overly concerned with it if it technically doesn't. I'm sure steampunk doesn't generally have Kor or Frog-men, let alone Kithkin or Vedalken, but my set does. At some point, I had to take some liberties with the concept of steampunk.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I guess this moot at this point anyway. If your not going for the Boss, you don't want the Contraptions anyway.
I still like the idea of having vehicles that do something even when no one is driving. Let me see.
Armed Defence Grid 5
Artifact- Vehicle
Flying
Creatures attacking you get -1/-0.
Operate 1
2/2
Field Super-Steam Computer 5
Artifact- Vehicle
Permanent spells you play cost 1 less to play.
Operate 6
4/6
Meh, I liked the mana rig the best.
Or maybe something like:
Mobil Machine Gun Platform 4
Artifact- Vehicle
First Strike
~ may have any number of creatures attached to it, and gets +1/+0 for each creature attached to it.
Creatures attached ~ to have "T: This creature deals 1 damage to target creature or player."
Operate 2
0/4
Too crazy?
Again, I don't like the flavor of vehicles doing things on their own. It's bad enough that a dragon can pick up a warmaul then get on a blimp and pilot it, I can at least justify that by saying that it'd make the cards too complicated to have the flavor make perfect sense.
I tried to keep the static effects on the regular artifacts in the set as a way of maintaining distinctions between them.
A vehicle can have as many creatures attached to it as you want (though that doesn't mean a card can't be printed that sets a limit), but otherwise a similar card is already in my set.
Forepooler 3
Artifact - Vehicle [R]
Forcepooler’s power is equal to the total combined power of creatures operating it.
Operate 3 (3: Attach a creature you control to this Vehicle or unattach a creature from it. Creatures attached to this Vehicle can’t attack or block and this vehicle can’t attack or block unless a creature is attached to it. When this Vehicle leaves play, sacrifice all creatures attached to it.)
*/5
Teliferous Gunship 3
Artifact - Vehicle [R]
Flying
Creatures operating Teliferous Gunship have “T: This Teliferous Gunship deals 1 damage to target creature.”
Operate 3 (3: Attach a creature you control to this Vehicle or unattach a creature from it. Creatures attached to this Vehicle can’t attack or block and this vehicle can’t attack or block unless a creature is attached to it. When this Vehicle leaves play, sacrifice all creatures attached to it.)
6/6
Between the two of them, you get the full effect of your card, though a bit more powerful in some respects.
Some of the rare vehicles have pretty wild abilities, ones that beg you to get as many creatures on board as you can (remember, you have to justify overextending when a single Shatter can get not just your vehicle, but all the guys inside, too).
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I just realized this was an already made set........ now I feel extra foolish..... I am so used to these threads being 'I am thinking about making set XYZ.'
or just a list of cards.
I guess I should just wait until you post the whole set. Seems like a fun one. I will enjoy reading it.
Reading is Tec.
It's not even really a terrible idea, it just doesn't work in this particular set. I want vehicles to remain relatively simple for now, but in future uses I can see expanding what they do.
MSE2 is being a dick or I'm being a nimrod. Either way, I've having issues exporting the set to html. And the idea of posting each card individually makes me sad.
Instead I'll take you on a tour of the plane (or at least the continent we visit in this set).
The largest single settlement on Archatmos is Arkwright, a massive industrialized city that's home to hundreds of thousands. Located on the west coast of the landmass, the city began as a center of industry, using its location on a series of high cliffs near both water and a mountain range home to vital ore and coal to its advantage. The first to claim the area were the Vedalken who left their ancestral home in Sudlund in favor of increasing their wealth and technological reach. They employed humans, goblins and elves in their factories and the surge in industry eventually gave rise to the city of Arkwright. As the city expanded, it reached the eastern edge of the bluffs it was built on. The ground below had become something of a swamp as a result of industrial and muncipal runoff. To avoid expanding the city onto that, the Vedalken chose to build massive plates not unlike those of Midgar to make room for the city's growth.
Arkwright itself is run by a Magistrate who oversees the departments that run the city from his tower in the city's business district. The true rulers of the city are the leaders of two particular business groups: the Vedalken Machlords who initially brought industry to the area and the Bomani Counselate who struck a partnership with the Vedalken using their connections to the requisite raw natural materials the Vedalken needed. These two businesses have a hand in everything from industry and trade to diplomacy and military. Arkwright, in fact, is protected not by its own army, but the air force controlled by the Vedalken.
Machlord of Arkwright 4U
Creature - Vedalken Wizard [u]
Artifacts you control have “1, T: Tap target artifact.”
1/4
Arkwright Mistmage 3U
Creature - Vedalken Wizard [R]
Whenever an artifact you control becomes the target of a spell or ability you don’t control, you may draw a card.
The air above Arkwright is thick with clouds produced by its industry. Hidden within the heavy banks are magical grids intended to alert the Vedalken of uninvited guests.
2/3
The Bomani are a race of slothful leonine people. They were once proud warriors but generations after they used tribal connections with nearby races to join with the Vedalken they have lost their pride. Now they're quite content to stew in their own greed and power. The Counselate does not take an active part in Arkwright's plays for more power in Archatmos (they leave that to the Vedalken) but they do take special interest in keeping themselves on the better end of all that goes on within the city. Ambition has taken the place of their warrior spirit, but for now they allow the Vedalken to do the heavy lifting as a cat would toy with a mouse. The Bomani are led by a particularly devious member named Guilford who considers himself the unofficial king of Arkwright who is merely biding his time until the Vedalken have outlived their purpose.
Counselate Bailiff 2BB
Creature - Cat Rogue [R]
When Counselate Bailiff comes into play, search target player’s library for a card and remove it from the game face down. That player then shuffles his or her library.
Whenever Counselate Bailiff deals combat damage to a player, you may play the removed card without paying its mana cost.
3/2
Guilford 2BBB
Legendary Creature - Cat Advisor [R]
Whenever you sacrifice a creature, you may pay XB. If you do, target opponent reveals X cards from his or her hand and discards two cards of your choice.
2/4
Guilford may not seem powerful at first glance, but remember that a destroyed vehicle results in all the guys inside getting sacrificed. In addition, another keyword I have yet to reveal involves creature sacrifice as well and another allows black to use sacrifice outlets without losing anything from the board.
Life in Arkwright has changed in the past decade or so. Childeric, the Vedalken leader had grown tired of the workers in his factories fighting for more. They wanted more wages, increased safety, cleaner factories - all things that would cut into the bottom line. So Childeric did what all great corporate dogs do - he fired all the factory workers and gave them the opportunity to enroll in Arkwright's famed Military Academy. Childeric replaced the workers with alchemy-created entities called homunculi. These homunculi were magically augmented to obey all commands without thought or question, require little to no sleep or food, demand nothing and work for free. For Childeric, they were the perfect example of progress and efficiency. Industrial output skyrocketed, profits went through the roof and the resulting influx of former workers into the military increased Arkwright's power for expansion. Arkwright slowly stopped bartering and negotiating with other communities and began to simply take what they wanted from them. Arkwright, once known as a city of opportunity and progress became a city of tyrranny and decadence.
Rebellion has become common. The forest of Adnascentia to the south attacks frequently with its beasts. The dwarven kingdoms to the north, once an eager supplier of ore and coal, have become stubborn and unruly. The now-polluted treefolk of Sedgewood lodge incursions from the swamps beneath the city. And worst of all are the Kor, who have begun fighting Arkwright's laws and became pirates using their swift ships to raid and escape without capture. Childeric has augmented his defenses just as he did his factories, with artificial lifeforms created through alchemy and science. These drones are much like the homunculi in design (they lack free will and are as a result flawlessly loyal) but are built not for dexterity and labor, but for war.
Geardancer Familiar 1U
Creature - Homunculus [C]
Protection from artifacts with a converted mana cost of three or more
Bred with alchemy for tasks deemed too dangerous for other races or too delicate for the Frannion caste, the homunculi were the machinist’s version of Arkwright’s defense drones. Silent, obedient and utterly controlled.
2/1
Diminutive Fetch U
Creature - Humunculus [C]
“Your reliance on the homunculi is worrying to us, Childeric. They have not proved to be as perfectly obedient as promised. Beings crafted for flawless servitude should not be capable of even minute mistakes. And yet three times this month alone production has ground to a halt as a result of the fetches’ incompetence. Bring your house under order, or we will.” -a letter from Guilford to Childeric
0/3
Rigorous Drone 4WU
Creature - Drone [C]
Reprisal (If this permanent would deal enough combat damage to its attackers to destroy them, you may have it deal the rest of its damage to attacking player.)
5/4
Can Arkwright hold it together or will it crumble beneath the heavy greed of its ruling class? That's one question facing Tissandier as he embarks on a journey that will take him all over Archatmos.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I normally upload the files into 'common' 'uncommon' 'rare' folders. I do that by organizing them by rarity in MSE and then deleting all but one kind, mass export, reload the set again. Repeat.
Side note:
Concoct seems crazy powerful. Dawnwort Fumes would be a 3-4 for one card in your hand. Get a thirst for knowledge and a boomerang. Or two white removal spells. Or some kinda mix of all of that....
AND counter a spell?
Seems like a better cryptic command.
So it doesn't just export to text at all?
dammit
In all fairness, not all concoct cards are on par with that one. For black and white in particular, they rarely get to fetch more than one card and the limit on CMC is generally lower than the rest. Blue and red fare a bit better, but the trade is that their concoct spells tend to be much more situational and/or straight-up weak (in terms of built-in effects).
I've been dulling the concoct cards a bit over time. They used to be far more open (concocting 3 cards up to 7 CMC for three mana, etc), but as you say, they may yet require more toning down. Perhaps I'm putting too much focus on the fact that you actually have to have the cards somewhere in the deck and remove them from the game (and thus give up a chance to use them later).
What would you suggest?
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Yeah, the best it can do is export to a MWS-formatted text file, which is the suck for posting on a forum.
I don't know if you intentionally used the leonine-pride pun, but I think it's quite amusing.
I like your idea of using the Cat tribe in their domestic sense. Quite good.
Yay, blockers' trample. I want this to happen in an actual set, as well as cleave or whatever that "horizontal-trample" mechanic is called.
Very Well Then I Contradict Myself.
Crap. Maybe I should nag Pichoro.
It was intentional, and I'm sorry.
The Bomani (which has roots in a real-ish word fyi, many of the names in the set do in some way) were my attempt to take the now-common Magic race of cat-people and spinning them away from the typical feral warrior race and, as you said, more towards the lazy, sneak domesticated version.
Me too, which is why I thought of it. I was looking for a mechanic for creatures to overlap white, blue and green. Something functional but not anything that would overshadow everything else in the set. Red and black had frenzy (from Future Sight), but the other three needed a bit extra as well. Defensive-trample (Reprisal) fit the colors and served the purpose of giving the creatures something to do apart from the vehicles. Not to mention it really fit with the flavor I was going for with Arkwright's Drones.
In a perfect world, Reprisal would be evergreen.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I like your take on the operate mechanic, so I hope you'll be able to do more interesting things with it than I did. I also rather like the flavor of this set, it looks really interesting and well developed.
Looking forward to seeing the rest of your set Mikey.
Just in general some possible problems I see that might come up, and how to avoid them:
On vehicles:
1) Hollow Warrior never saw any play, even in limited. Cards that need other cards to do anything are generally bad.
2) Creature Enchantments don't really see play because getting two for one'ed is very bad.
3) Even agro decks don't really get more than 3 creatures to stick on the field in constructed. And really don't want to play more then 3 creatures because of Warth effects.
Possible Fixes:
1) Make all cards better than Hollow Man. (which it seems you have done :D)
2) I do not know why shattering a STEAM powered thing would kill everyone in side.(even indestructible things inside) Just get ride of that rule. Steam powered stuff is not really that explosive anyway.
3) Don't have too many cards that interact with more than one creature in them, and those that do make very good.
Concoct:
1) Merchant Scroll is restricted in type 1, and sees play in all formates its legal in.
2) The more choices a card gives you, the better it is. These cards are like split cards to start, since they give you two mod's on how to play them, but then give you EVEN MORE choices.
3) Searching for spells is POWERFUL. Searching and playing spells for free is... well.... Getting to search for 2 more spells and play them is.. 2-3 spells for one card.... yeah....
4)Lots of different numbers, ability is complicated.
Possible Fixes:
Concoct X (Search your library for up to one card that share a color and type with this card and with a total converted mana cost of X or less. Remove that cards from the game and add its effect to this spell. Shuffle your library afterwards.)
Side note
Dawnwort Fumes: Two mana counterspells are hard to come by nowadays, since they got ride of Mana Leak. So the base card itself is pretty good.
Preaching to the choir on that one. I have a folder of 20 or so sets that are either barely started, unfinished, finished & terrible or finished expansions based on actual sets (I call them Reduxes). This will be the first original set I've finished that's worth posting. I have another half-block but, despite having interesting ideas in it, is not a very well made group of sets.
I hope I did. I'm still trying to nail down power levels with them. I want to push them, but it's hard to know when the power has been pushed just to the right place. For every card, I had to ask a lot of questions (Is it too expensive? Is the ability worth using? Will people want to risk attaching creatures just to make this work? etc)
Thank you. I actually have a whole storyline more or less worked out. And given my expanse of free time, I've considered actually writing it. You know, put my degree and years of experience to actual use.
I look forward to posting it. I'm working on dividing the set up to export to MWS text so I can format it and C&P here. Might be a while. In the meantime, I'll do a bit more world-building previews.
-----
So we've met the main attraction to the world in the form of Arkwright, but the industrial center isn't the end of the plane. It's not even the only city (but we'll leave the hamlet of Sudlund and the Alsace Dukedom for another time). Arkwright, though, has enemies. Considering its clout, that is not surprising. Even the self-involved, uninformed public of Arkwright knows that there are those out beyond their tall city that hate them. The people of Arkwright of course just assume that these rebels are just envious of the progressive, valuable lives they live. Arkwright is the land of endless possibility where every engineer, shopkeep and stack-sweeper is putting their effort toward something glorious. Surely any who would fight against that are savages, untamed and unclean and lacking in intellegence or awareness.
Enter Adnascentia, the last great forest of Archatmos, the rest felled to fuel Arkwright's insatiable need for supplies. What exactly lurks within the forest is largely unclear. All that Arkwright knows for sure is that the early logging groups sent to Adnascentia disappeared and were not heard from again and that all further attempts to investigate were thwarted by unseen forces. Even the nearby Kithkin village of Wilshire seems affected, the kith gone missing and their village a barren ghost town. Legends speak of ghosts and invisible monsters, but the Vedalken are skeptical and somewhat frustrated by their lack of knowledge in this area. Something they don't control is standing in their way. They want the natural resources of Adnascentia as well as a cleared route for future convoys, but they can't get close enough to solve the problem. All attempts have failed and now convoys a fair distance from the forest are vanishing. The Bomani are growing restless and paranoid and the Vedalken are losing their calm, cool control.
What dwells in the forest?
Grovetender 3G
Creature - Plant Archer [C]
Reprisal (If this permanent would deal enough combat damage to its attackers to destroy them, you may have it deal the rest of its damage to attacking player.)
Whenever Grovetender deals combat damage to an opponent, put a +1/+1 counter on target creature you control.
3/3
Dealiest Bloom 2GG
Creature - Plant Warrior [u]
Vanquish — 1GG (When this permanent becomes blocked by a creature, you may pay its vanquish cost. If you do, sacrifice this creature and destroy that creature.)
3/3
The Verdic Grovechildren are a new race on Archatmos, tall, wirey beings who like treefolk are sentient plants. They aren't trees given thought, however, they resemble men made of stalks, vines, moss and flowers. The Kithkin believed them to be nature's anger given form. Their actions lend credence to that, the Grovechildren emerge from their seedpods eager to destroy all that's unnatural and anyone who works against nature. They're just getting used to the world around them and are starting to venture beyond the forest. What the scouts are seeing pains the race. Civilization, industry, deforestation, pollution ... the blatant disrespect and exploitation of nature. The Grovechildren have identified Arkwright as the worst cancer of all this and are determined to destroy it to reclaim the land.
But they're not alone.
Chitterguard Liege 1G
Creature - Kithkin Shaman [R]
Whenever you concoct a spell, you may put a 1/1 green Squirrel creature token into play.
“We kithkin are born to devote ourselves to community and family. Nature is our community now and all that dwell within it our family.” -Felhaust
0/2
In the days leading up to the birth of the Verdic Grovechildren, the nearby Kithkin of Wilshire began experiencing anomolous interactions with their innate thoughtweft. Where once they heard only the feelings and thoughts of the kith community, they began hearing new voices and foreign feelings. They tracked the intrusion upon their link to the forest and the Grovechildren. The newly-birthed Grovechildren saw Gaea's plan in the connection between the races and granted the Kithkin sanctuary provided they turn to the natural path. The Kithkin who did so were rewarded with a new thoughtweft, a connection not just between family or the kith and Grovechildren, but a connection to all the fauna of Adnascentia from lowly rodents to towered bears. The Kithkin who refused to leave Wilshire vanished, leaving the rest to name their new commune in the forest in honor of their lost families.
But if the Kithkin of Wilshire are green, where does that leave the elves in my set? Homeless. Their forest was demolished by the Vedalken decades ago, leaving them without a place to call their own. The elders began settling into small farming communities collectively called Heathspun Homes in an attempt to reseestablish their connection with nature. Elfkind youth, however, wanted to pursue life in the cities convinced as they were that Gaea had foresaken them and they now had to eke out a new life for themselves. They were admonished by the elders and the elven race divided. The elves of Heathspun Home struggle to this day to survive on the open plains, but the rebellious youth have thrived. Their natural dexterity and enhanced senses providing them an edge in the piloting of Arkwright's many monolithic war machines. In fact, Arkwright's military is comprised almost a full 40% by elves once the number of drones are omitted. One such elf has risen through the ranks and was the first to command his own skyship, an honor previously only bestowed to Vedalken. He has become a hero not just for his own kind, but for all the down-trodden of Arkwright. He represented possibility, gleaming and true, the result of dedication and hard work.
Phinnaes 1WW
Legendary Creature - Elf Warrior [R]
First strike; Protection from black
As long as Phinnaes is operating a vehicle, the operated vehicle gets +1/+1 and has first strike and protection from red.
2/2
And his ship:
Aeroqueen Eternal 3
Legendary Artifact - Vehicle [R]
Flying
Whenever Aeroqueen Eternal becomes blocked, put a +1/+1 counter on it for each creature operating it.
1, Remove a +1/+1 counter from Aeroqueen Eternal: Aeroqueen Eternal deals 2 damage to target creature blocking or blocked by it this turn.
Operate 3
5/5
Phinnaes has a younger sister named Delphine who wants nothing more than to follow in her brother's mighty footsteps. A chance encounter with Tissandier is what leads the two on their adventure across Archatmos.
Agreed in general, but players will use those cards if they're worthwhile. Technically, equipment are the same way and yet they very frequently see play. Obviously a deck can't have a lot of vehicles in it if it expects to get them operational often, but they at least run on cards that most players are running anyway.
I agree. But again, there are ways around that. Having the benefit outweigh the risk is one. Having the potential for 2-for-1-ing lowered is another. The last mechanic I have yet to reveal works well toward that. (I'll reveal it when I preview the Kor, who use the ability fairly extensively and make for very good vehicle crews).
I'm not balancing the set in accordance with what's in Standard at the moment. As long as it plays well enough in block, I'm happy. And this block has two wrath effects worth mentioning. The regular white one costs five and only hits creatures with power 4 and up. The green one costs seven as a result of exactly the problem you're bringing up here.
I'm trying to create a slower environment with more control and a little less efficient removal. I want players to be able to get out five guys, hop them all on a ship and have them sail over with cannons blazing. I want players to have the freedom to be safe enough from aggro that they can cast a spell with concoct and get the glee of chaining two awesome spells onto it.
Other, real, blocks have tried to achieve similar states. Onslaught, Lorwyn and Masques most memorably.
Hhaahaha, not a problem. All vehicles have higher power and toughness to casting cost, for a start. And if they don't, it's for good reason.
I just imagine it as a blimp getting blown out of the sky. Ain't no one walking away from that mess. It's easy to think of a sword just falling to the ground when the holder dies, but what happens to the crew of a crashing vehicle?
All vehicles work just fine with one guy inside. There's one that is optimal with two crew members and several that have scaling effects based on the number of guys on board. But that last group tends to offer significant benefits to risks.
I see your point.
Which isn't in and of itself a bad thing. Open-ended flexibility is what this mechanic wants, too many restrictions and it's just no longer worth it.
So then the main issue is the searching then? Splice did almost the same thing with cards in hand, allowing you many spells on one card. And it didn't result in the cards you were splicing on getting removed from the game.
Valros' wording of concoct as an action word solves pretty much all the complication issues. I've decided that it's a great solution and I'll switch the cards over to use that wording.
Adding either 1 to the cost or substracting 1 from the Leak effect is not a big thing, and both probably ease the card back enough.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
The searching was part of it. One of the reasons Splice was 'bad' because you had to have the card in your hand for it to work. But the REAL reason it was not that good was the "arcane" bit, making it so it could only interact with cards in the same set.
Yours gets around that problem, which is defiantly a good thing. I just feel you might have gone a step to far.
Casting a mana leak and than getting 2 Path to Exiles (or even unsummons) and wiping the other guys board seems way too good.
In older sets it gets even more busted: Ancestral Recall + Mystical Tutor (to get a Cunning Wish to draw with the recall)
However, if your only worried about block, then this post is very moot. At least until I see the whole set..... Yeah, I should just shut up till I see the whole thing.
So would a good compromise be making the cost to concoct a bit higher? Obviously upping the cost of the card itself is undesirable (no one will want to play with a Twiddle that costs four or five mana), but perhaps upping the concoct cost itself to Buyback-Flashback levels might suffice.
For Dawnwort Fumes, upping the cost to concoct up to 2WU (therefore making the whole thing 2WWUU for a Leak plus up to two blue and/or white instants of up to five CMC). That almost seems too much, but the incredible flexibility makes it worth it since the effect will often be a mini-Ultimatum.
Block is my main focus but I do want to keep it more or less in line with what would fit with actual Magic. I want it to feel like a real block even if particular interactions may be of some concern.
I'm still not sure concoct is totally balanced for block, often problematic interactions escape me since I am only one set of eyes. So outside opinions are greatly appreciated.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
But you see, it only would have a CC of 5 when you WANTED it to. Your still looking at mana leak, which sees alot of play, and on top of that, if you feel like it, its also a 5 mana spell that does more or less whatever you want it to.
I am still pushing for my nerded version. I know its hard to nerf a card or idea you love... God do I know, and often times I don't anyway. So if you want to go for it to make the set cool, just do it. But know that it is very over powered. The effect of tutoring something and playing it for free, when was it done before? and at what cost?
Cord of Calling, or Tinker?
Technically, Dawnwort Fumes only has 685 singular cards to search for. Most of which are not so powerful to be a concern for me to get tacked onto a Leak for 2WWUU or are pricey enough to limit the additional spell you can get. I mean your options in terms of what'd be in your decks are realistically a massive amount more limited than that 685-card list. In a deck, you may only have a total of 12 cards that Fumes can search for (which, if you overlooked it, more Fumes). For the average deck, these are all spells you were going to cast anyway so I'm not scared of trading off the potential to play them later for paying more and playing them now. Yes, the flexibility is insane, but mostly just at the deckbuilding phase. In play, even in a dedicated concoct deck you won't have so many available cards to find that the possibilities are crushingly near-limitless. And I think for the price, being able to 'play' a Condemn and make the opponent pay 6 more for target spell isn't warpingly overpowered. It is powerful, I don't disagree, but I'm not at the point where I think it's too powerful to print. I think at most it'll need some numbers adjusted slightly.
Technically, neither do anything like this.
Kaho does, but makes you pay the CMC of the card you play. I simply switched when you pay it. Paying a concoct cost serves the same role as Kaho's X, T ability. It keeps players honest. You can't cheat a huge, gamebreaker spell that costs 7+ with Kaho, and you can't with concoct, either. You still pay mana to 'copy' the spell, and it places limits on the size and number of spells you can get. Kaho is vulnerable as a creature, but allows you to play fetched cards whenever, concoct requires you to play the spell first (many need viable targets to play targetting) and has the vulnerability of getting countered (which is bound to happen in a slower, control-slanted environment). Kaho limits the number of spells you can get just like concoct, but concoct puts a far greater limitation on how big the spells can be.
Mind's Desire and Temporal Apeture both do something similar, but they both had power issues either not directly related to the ability or related directly to the size and color of spells you were getting for free.
Then there's Sunforger which requires mana investment and a creature to equip but little else. Otherwise, it's got many of the same limitations as concoct except where concoct can chain multiple spells at once, Sunforger needs time to repeat itself. Sunforger is actually capable of slinging more instants than a Dawnwort Fumes can, just for a slightly larger cost in mana.
Apart from them, this concept isn't used very often. My main focus is on Kaho and basically how to replicate his ability in spell form.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains