Thanks for the judgings guys. I always appreciate feedback on this.
Just want you to know, I am not haggling for points, obviously because I'm already out of the running for the win no matter what you do. I want to know how to design something from a Vorthos' POV and make it clear to each person in how the flavor works. To you, it didn't work, and thus I failed. I want to know why I failed.
I never actually thought of combos for it when I made the card. The card was made from a Vorthos' standpoint.
This is not for judges who haven't finished yet, but I'd like feedback from judges who have finished/finish in the future and/or any players/my competition who want to chime in.
Ok, so I think I've identified my failings:
Edit: Here's the card.
• My intent was to create an "Erosion Elemental", a creature made of dust and wind that blows intensively across the "high" points and wears them down.
• "Dustwind Monarch" was chosen in place of the more generic "Erosion Elemental", but obviously that didn't connect with a) an artifact creature or b) the effect.
• The intended artifact connection was to evoke golem imagery (which might have garnered me a few more points), but I felt golem was too "purpose-driven", while this is supposed to reflect more of a "vengeful animated land wreaking havoc" feeling.
• The intended effect connection was the concept of a creature whose power is rooted in your opponent's creature presence. I felt that the combination of your opponent needing to have creatures + choosing the option + lack of "targeting" (because it selects highest power or toughness) was sufficient to base it in artifact/colorless effects AND justify the 4 mana cost with no additional activation cost. That said, I almost put a in front of that tapsymbol, but I'm hearing that even that wouldn't have been enough.
• My wording was definitely more wordy than needed. I've fixed that, thanks.
Any feedback on the elements I've outlined above would be appreciated.
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[CENTER]Thanks to Kracked Graphics for the banner and avatar.
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[CENTER][U]In Memory of Dr. Jeebus
Haha... I find it funny (and peculiar, but mostly funny) that for almost every judge that has posted so far, either my balance score is really high and my flavor is really low, or my flavor is really high and my balance is really low...
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
How do you make the custom cards, and is it compatible with macbook pro? Also, where does the card art come from? Please PM me with the answer.
I don't think this is the right place for this, but as far as I know the program called "magic set editor" is for Windows. You'd have a better chance looking around elsewhere, like here. Hope it helps.
It's the same for me here. lol
It's been a great experience, this final round. I think I really explored a top-down perspective from a Vorthos' POV, and its strengths and weaknesses. Looks like my experimentation will continue after all. :3
Observation on judging, don't read if you haven't judged yet:
I think I might be a contender for "most controversial card" this round. Out of the judges that have submitted so far, half think my card's a powerful build-around-me, and the other half say it's too weak to matter. I can't wait to see what the other two think.
It's been a great experience, this final round. I think I really explored a top-down perspective from a Vorthos' POV, and its strengths and weaknesses. Looks like my experimentation will continue after all. :3
I totally agree: it's been amazing getting to this final round, am I'm thankful I did. In my short FCC career, this is definitely the card I've learned the most from by the judges. I certainly thought my card was fine removal until seeing the enlightening comments made by the judges, and definately thought it was more creative. An aside to Vishara when this is all over, SORRY for the major wording headache and thanks for all the criticism - I learned a ton about card design. I suppose I shoudn't rip a hole in the official rulings just to keep a card template clean :D)
It's an honour to have gotten here. Thanks to all the judges and all the players. Let the experimentation continue!
This is not for judges who haven't finished yet, but I'd like feedback from judges who have finished/finish in the future and/or any players/my competition who want to chime in.
I didn't have much of a problem with the name, but you might have been able to get more of the effect you were looking for with something like "Wall of Erosion" (a 0/6 has an implied "Defender", though you'd have needed to add it if you did go with Wall). "Elemental of the Winds" could also have led in the direction you're looking for (though I'd come up with something more flavorful). Both of those connect with the flavor text and the mechanic a bit more consistently. I wouldn't use that that as final (or the flavor text), but hopefully that helps with a direction.
No, t isn't enough. The problem is the color pie (at least, in my opinion). W,U&G shouldn't be able to so easily get that effect.
An aside to Vishara when this is all over, SORRY for the major wording headache and thanks for all the criticism - I learned a ton about card design. I suppose I shoudn't rip a hole in the official rulings just to keep a card template clean :D)
I'm glad what I brought up makes sense to you. I know I often come up with things that other judges don't (and vice versa), and sometimes I'm curious what other judges think of the more unique observations I make. Your card makes that especially so.
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No, t isn't enough. The problem is the color pie (at least, in my opinion). W,U&G shouldn't be able to so easily get that effect.
I loled at the fact that BlackBull states that my card is so underwhelming while everyone else saw it a little overpowered.
I really thought that the driving concept behind "just a 0/6 but for your opponent's creatures" was fitting enough for artifact. W, U, and G should easily be able to get a 0/6 for 4 (while blue, I suppose, is pushing it, just a 0/6 with no abilities would be horribly weak for W or G). And the "punish your opponent for daring to control creatures" felt safely allowable in white and blue to me. Green, on the other hand, regularly pairs with red to cause creatures to deal damage to others. But again, it wasn't so much the idea that it couldn't necessarily fit in some of the colors, but that so much is dependant upon the opponent that it becomes unaligned.
But thank you for the response. I can see where the name imagery could have been a little more apt, and I understand where you're coming from with the cheapness.
I loled at the fact that BlackBull states that my card is so underwhelming while everyone else saw it a little overpowered.
I'm curious. Whith who do you agree and why? I had a ton of things in my head when made the judgings and surely I have lost something that everyone else saw.
I'm curious. Whith who do you agree and why? I had a ton of things in my head when made the judgings and surely I have lost something that everyone else saw.
I agree with myself, of course. I considered, briefly, costing it at 5, but then realized that I'd be sacrificing a bonus point. I put it at 4 and considered all the elements that are out of your control, and wound up happy with the cost. Then I second-guessed myself and wanted to add a 1-mana activation to the ability. Then I third-guessed and left the cost off.
To be honest, after hearing the judgings, I still think I'm on the mark.
• dd2k says "does too much for too little" and I respond with "but 'too much' is based off of your opponent's creatures, so it scales itself with your opponent's deck, providing an interesting mirror concept."
• Both Vishara and WhisperedThunder indicate that the activation needs a cost (greater than 1), but I think that becomes prohibitive. Would Wizards print it with a cost? Maybe, but only if they needed to scale back the power level of the set overall. I think that in a vacuum, they'd be happy color-pie-wise with a straight tap activation.
• Kraj says it's balanced, markino says it's balanced (I particularly like his comparison to Obelisk of Alara; despite that card's reliance on colored mana, any color can derive benefit from it. The difference, of course, is that my effect shifts the color-appropriateness-necessity into the realm of opponent-choice.)
• You and markino correctly evaluate the area that I most consistently fail in: the standard environment. I don't play competitive other than sealed (and even sealed and casual have been extremely little lately), and I'm woefully behind in my article reading, so I didn't recognize the fact that a 0/6 groundblocker turn four isn't going to do much against the kithkin/faerie/revilark onslaught. In conjunction with something unknown, it might have constructed potential, but it would probably shine primarily in Sealed (where, I have to disagree with you, I think it would regularly be considered as a 1st pick).
All in all, I think it's balanced as is...but I wouldn't balk at adding a small activation cost, say :1mana:.
...In conjunction with something unknown, it might have constructed potential, but it would probably shine primarily in Sealed (where, I have to disagree with you, I think it would regularly be considered as a 1st pick).
May be because I do not consider myself a good limited player (actually I'm ashamed of my limited level...)
I can see why you think it's a good 1st pick. May be because it's a colorless 0/6 at 4 that could destroy a creature or make him lose life. Never a bad pick in a full of various creatures enviroment. yeah... May be you're right about this in particular. But... May be it wouldn't be my first pick (remember that I consider myself a bad limited player! :P)
May be because I do not consider myself a good limited player (actually I'm ashamed of my limited level...)
I can see why you think it's a good 1st pick. May be because it's a colorless 0/6 at 4 that could destroy a creature or make him lose life. Never a bad pick in a full of various creatures enviroment. yeah... May be you're right about this in particular. But... May be it wouldn't be my first pick (remember that I consider myself a bad limited player! :P)
It's definitely a first pick for a number of really good reasons:
1. 0/6 wall for 4, which means it can block anything outside of super bombs. this can stall the game for a long time, which feeds into its ability.
2. 6 toughness means it's difficult to remove via combat or anything else
3. Repeated removal and/or life loss is huge
4. Colourless means you don't have to commit to a colour early on
5. Very much supports any control build, which is possible in shards (Esper control)
I think a cost to activation, something like 2, would have made it borderlined for first-pick status. Something like 1 mana would do nothing either, however, in terms of limited.
However, Cantrip's card is a rare. Rares are not very relevant at all to limited due the fact that they just don't show up very often.
When I judge, if the card is rare, I don't even consider its impact on limited unless it's so obviously broken that the card would let you go 5-0 on its own. And something that broken will likely be broken in multiple formats.
But the bottom line is for a rare, limited isn't really much of an issue.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Ooh, a close one. Just a quarter of a point separating the top 2!
Guess we'll need to wait for all of them to finish, then, even if Jaxal went "up tomorrow" on the 27th of February and hasn't been seen since.
Asking out a girl is like trying to cast a first turn Necropotence. Sometimes the other player will have the Force of Will to say no. You shouldn't let that stop you from trying it.
Just a quick question. I have some questions on my card and some judgings on it, but I really want to ask from a design-experience standpoint and really don't want to throw any scores into question. Is it okay to post questions here once the round is over? I'd actually like multiple-person feedback, if that's okay, and I thought they were interesting sort of general questions too.
Edit: I suppose the finale of the FCC may limit the amount of discussion on this board. Is this being wiped shortly?
Just wondering if a prod has been sent to Jaxal, since it's been like 9 days... Not gonna lie, the tension is kinda killing me...
I contacted him a couple days ago. It'll be several more days before he can get to his judging. It's such a close contest I value his judgings, but I don't want to pressure him if he's got other commitments. I didn't want to end the round immediately after JqlGirl posted her scores to give her time to make adjustments if she wished. I'll probably officially declare the winner tomorrow.
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I feel a little uncomfortable now looking at what other judges have said...
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Edit: Here's the card.
• My intent was to create an "Erosion Elemental", a creature made of dust and wind that blows intensively across the "high" points and wears them down.
• "Dustwind Monarch" was chosen in place of the more generic "Erosion Elemental", but obviously that didn't connect with a) an artifact creature or b) the effect.
• The intended artifact connection was to evoke golem imagery (which might have garnered me a few more points), but I felt golem was too "purpose-driven", while this is supposed to reflect more of a "vengeful animated land wreaking havoc" feeling.
• The intended effect connection was the concept of a creature whose power is rooted in your opponent's creature presence. I felt that the combination of your opponent needing to have creatures + choosing the option + lack of "targeting" (because it selects highest power or toughness) was sufficient to base it in artifact/colorless effects AND justify the 4 mana cost with no additional activation cost. That said, I almost put a
• My wording was definitely more wordy than needed. I've fixed that, thanks.
Any feedback on the elements I've outlined above would be appreciated.
[CENTER]Death, Destroyer of Worlds[/CENTER]
[CENTER]Thanks to Kracked Graphics for the banner and avatar.
[/CENTER]
[CENTER]"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded."[/CENTER]
[CENTER][U]In Memory of Dr. Jeebus
Level 1 DCI Judge
Check out my Commons Cube.
I don't think this is the right place for this, but as far as I know the program called "magic set editor" is for Windows. You'd have a better chance looking around elsewhere, like here. Hope it helps.
燃える時計秘密めく花の香り
www.pokemoncrossroads.com
I think I might be a contender for "most controversial card" this round. Out of the judges that have submitted so far, half think my card's a powerful build-around-me, and the other half say it's too weak to matter. I can't wait to see what the other two think.
I totally agree: it's been amazing getting to this final round, am I'm thankful I did. In my short FCC career, this is definitely the card I've learned the most from by the judges. I certainly thought my card was fine removal until seeing the enlightening comments made by the judges, and definately thought it was more creative. An aside to Vishara when this is all over, SORRY for the major wording headache and thanks for all the criticism - I learned a ton about card design. I suppose I shoudn't rip a hole in the official rulings just to keep a card template clean :D)
It's an honour to have gotten here. Thanks to all the judges and all the players. Let the experimentation continue!
No, t isn't enough. The problem is the color pie (at least, in my opinion). W,U&G shouldn't be able to so easily get that effect.
I really thought that the driving concept behind "just a 0/6 but for your opponent's creatures" was fitting enough for artifact. W, U, and G should easily be able to get a 0/6 for 4 (while blue, I suppose, is pushing it, just a 0/6 with no abilities would be horribly weak for W or G). And the "punish your opponent for daring to control creatures" felt safely allowable in white and blue to me. Green, on the other hand, regularly pairs with red to cause creatures to deal damage to others. But again, it wasn't so much the idea that it couldn't necessarily fit in some of the colors, but that so much is dependant upon the opponent that it becomes unaligned.
But thank you for the response. I can see where the name imagery could have been a little more apt, and I understand where you're coming from with the cheapness.
I'm curious. Whith who do you agree and why? I had a ton of things in my head when made the judgings and surely I have lost something that everyone else saw.
To be honest, after hearing the judgings, I still think I'm on the mark.
• dd2k says "does too much for too little" and I respond with "but 'too much' is based off of your opponent's creatures, so it scales itself with your opponent's deck, providing an interesting mirror concept."
• Both Vishara and WhisperedThunder indicate that the activation needs a cost (greater than 1), but I think that becomes prohibitive. Would Wizards print it with a cost? Maybe, but only if they needed to scale back the power level of the set overall. I think that in a vacuum, they'd be happy color-pie-wise with a straight tap activation.
• Kraj says it's balanced, markino says it's balanced (I particularly like his comparison to Obelisk of Alara; despite that card's reliance on colored mana, any color can derive benefit from it. The difference, of course, is that my effect shifts the color-appropriateness-necessity into the realm of opponent-choice.)
• You and markino correctly evaluate the area that I most consistently fail in: the standard environment. I don't play competitive other than sealed (and even sealed and casual have been extremely little lately), and I'm woefully behind in my article reading, so I didn't recognize the fact that a 0/6 groundblocker turn four isn't going to do much against the kithkin/faerie/revilark onslaught. In conjunction with something unknown, it might have constructed potential, but it would probably shine primarily in Sealed (where, I have to disagree with you, I think it would regularly be considered as a 1st pick).
All in all, I think it's balanced as is...but I wouldn't balk at adding a small activation cost, say :1mana:.
May be because I do not consider myself a good limited player (actually I'm ashamed of my limited level...)
I can see why you think it's a good 1st pick. May be because it's a colorless 0/6 at 4 that could destroy a creature or make him lose life. Never a bad pick in a full of various creatures enviroment. yeah... May be you're right about this in particular. But... May be it wouldn't be my first pick (remember that I consider myself a bad limited player! :P)
1. 0/6 wall for 4, which means it can block anything outside of super bombs. this can stall the game for a long time, which feeds into its ability.
2. 6 toughness means it's difficult to remove via combat or anything else
3. Repeated removal and/or life loss is huge
4. Colourless means you don't have to commit to a colour early on
5. Very much supports any control build, which is possible in shards (Esper control)
I think a cost to activation, something like 2, would have made it borderlined for first-pick status. Something like 1 mana would do nothing either, however, in terms of limited.
For constructed, I have no idea.
燃える時計秘密めく花の香り
www.pokemoncrossroads.com
When I judge, if the card is rare, I don't even consider its impact on limited unless it's so obviously broken that the card would let you go 5-0 on its own. And something that broken will likely be broken in multiple formats.
But the bottom line is for a rare, limited isn't really much of an issue.
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Anyway...
Could someone add up the judges that have been done so far and give the standings?
Thanks!
Av.drfter 17 18 ? 15 18.5 18.5 20 19.25 = 126.25
Cantripm. 18.5 17 ? 20 21 20 21.5 18.75 = 136.75
DanceofM. 18 18 ? 22.5 21.5 21.5 22.5 19.5 = 143.5
Dragoon26 16.25 18.5 ? 23.5 21.5 21.5 21 22 = 144.25
K. "Lan" K. 20.5 18.5 ? 19.5 18.5 18 20 17.75 = 132.75
Mr. Quidam 14 17 ? 18 18.5 19.5 20.5 19.5 = 127
Phuzzy 18 19 ? 18 18 17.5 19 20 = 129.5
Pseudofate 18 19 ? 16.5 18 18.5 17 17 = 124
Guess we'll need to wait for all of them to finish, then, even if Jaxal went "up tomorrow" on the 27th of February and hasn't been seen since.
Level 1 DCI Judge
Check out my Commons Cube.
燃える時計秘密めく花の香り
www.pokemoncrossroads.com
Edit: I suppose the finale of the FCC may limit the amount of discussion on this board. Is this being wiped shortly?
I contacted him a couple days ago. It'll be several more days before he can get to his judging. It's such a close contest I value his judgings, but I don't want to pressure him if he's got other commitments. I didn't want to end the round immediately after JqlGirl posted her scores to give her time to make adjustments if she wished. I'll probably officially declare the winner tomorrow.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.