Have the main MTG apps been taken off the marketplace? I am specifically talking about my Droid. I was using MTG Deck Forge, which is an amazing app, and I also had a couple of others that allowed me to look up other things, and I went to the marketplace to check for updated, and they had been removed. There are still a couple left, but it seems like WotC may have told these developers to pull their apps in preparation for MTG Toolbox (by WotC). Anyone else notice this or was this a long time coming and I am just late to the party?
Does no one use MTG apps?/Bump?
I'm leaving this thread open, since I believe the topic does belong in Magic Software. However, you might want to discuss it here:
No free app I have found will let you do a true EDH mode.
I want one that can do life, poison, and general damage. And if I had my way, it would do multiple general damage as well.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
MTG deck forge for droid worked really well, but as I said, it has been pulled from the app market (along with others). I am wondering if WotC called them in on that so that they could get there money's worth from their app.
BTW, other than me apparently being dense, I love the app!
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Yes they did, it has been reported by those app's devs on this forum. Hasbro's lawyers also sent DMCA notices to multiple iPhone apps, yours truly included. Good thing that Apple is reasonable and on developers/customers side, unlike Google.
Android market is more open-source, which is why Google doesn't have as much reign over it, however, it does allow a tad more freedom.
On topic, that sucks, pretty, pretty bad. Hopefully WotC's is as good as MTG Deck Forge.
EDIT: Also, where was this in the forums or on the WotC page?
Well, you start New Game with type EDH / Commander. You use little grey arrows to move between player counters, up to 10. You press the little General button to record General damage, in a proper 10x10 matrix, i.e. you can track each general separately for each of the players. That's it.
Optionally, you tap the numbers to rename them to player names.
Pefect, thanks! The new game was the button I was missing.
Great app gets even better!
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
you might wanna try MTG tracker. (not updated with DKA yet)
> card search (with prices)
> life counters (with history), general damage, general extra recast cost, poison. (up to 8 players)
> mana pool
> deck management, stats and starting hand emulator (only for pro version)
> wishlist
> random dice (d4, d6, d10, d20, plane die, and coin)
> deck statistics
> includes personal collection
So for those unaware, Wizards of the Coast has released a new Magic The Gathering App on iOS (And soon Android). However it seems in concert with releasing this app WotC's parent company, Hasbro, has been sending Cease and Desist letters to the various MtG app makers already on the market.
For good or ill, WotC/Hasbro has every legal right to do this, in fact it may even be required of them legally. While copyright law does not require enforcement by the owner of said copyright, trademark law does (The penalty being loss of said trademark for willfully allowing continued infringement). At least this is the case in the United States, where WotC and Hasbro are based, along with Apple and Google who own the relevant app stores.
That said, an argument could be made that these apps are educational in nature and thus fall under fair use. That they are providing reference information not unlike an encyclopedia or an omnipedia (An encyclopedia about a specific subject). A counter argument could be made that because said apps republish the entirety of the MTG collection they are going above and beyond simple use of reference material (Most apps provide full art digital reproductions of each card). A clever app designer might be able to work around this be not embedding any information directly (Except perhaps card names in a deck list) and instead searching The gatherer whenever a user wants information on a card, pulling up The Gatherer in an in-app browser page.
Frankly though these are grey areas in the law and how well one could circumvent matters may be a moot point. The fact of the matter is, in the United States anyone or any company can file a lawsuit or a Cease & Desist whether the law is on their side or not. It is up to the courts to settle the matter, and many simple don't have the financial capability to defend themselves in court on such matters (This is something companies often count on).
Thus this really isn't the place to get heavy into the legal "who's at fault" talk as honestly we're not qualified. But what I think would be productive to talk about is how we think this will effect the magic community and what sort of precedent does it set? Will other deck building software packages have to watch out, and what about web sites that use the likeness of cards for things other than selling them (For which they are immune legally)? Is this just a one time thing because WotC wants to get into the app market and is using the law to remove competition and it will stop here, or could it go further than this?
Is there anything we as players of MtG should do about it? Should we write to WotC/Hasbro telling them of our displeasure and that we think they're going to hurt the community doing this? If WotC/Hasbro's concern is people making money off their product unfairing should we lobby for a way for app developers to license the use of MtG information in their apps? WotC ultimately wants to sell more cards, perhaps the apps could link to a WotC website where players can buy boosters and etc and the app designer and WotC split the profits?
EDIT:
When I created this thread I didn't see anything talking about the issue in Magic Software that hadn't been closed down. I've now seen that there is indeed a thread about this issue in Magic General (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=389490), though it is an issue about Magic Software it can have broader implications as my own post indicates. Regardless my thread is redundant...
When I created this thread I didn't see anything talking about the issue in Magic Software that hadn't been closed down. I've now seen that there is indeed a thread about this issue in Magic General (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=389490), though it is an issue about Magic Software it can have broader implications as my own post indicates. Regardless my thread is redundant...
This thread existed and was open. I merged your post here. The link to the other thread was added to this one's OP.
I'm leaving this thread open, since I believe the topic does belong in Magic Software. However, you might want to discuss it in the other thread.
Tan Thor Jen, author of Decked builder for iOS and MacOSX has blogged that he has been threatened with legal action by WOTC. So he is disabling deck creation with his next update.
I don't know how many of you use this software, but on iPad, it is the most glorious, usable, and wonderful deck building software I've ever seen.
Kiss it goodbye, a casualty of WOTC's new MTG tools app. If you can't beat 'em, sue 'em.
Tan Thor Jen, author of Decked builder for iOS and MacOSX has blogged that he has been threatened with legal action by WOTC. So he is disabling deck creation with his next update.
I don't know how many of you use this software, but on iPad, it is the most glorious, usable, and wonderful deck building software I've ever seen.
Kiss it goodbye, a casualty of WOTC's new MTG tools app. If you can't beat 'em, sue 'em.
Yah he said he's going to release a DKA update, then the one to follow that will disable deck building functionality. So it looks like DKA will be the last update I get for this app, it's just too awesome and makes it so easy to research cards and build decks. Deck building and collection tracking is at the core of what the app does, it's not just a big oracle reference.
So this will sadly kill the app.
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-ZATZAi | Southern California | Vintage / Legacy / Commander / Modern / Extended
I've been letting it linger but am afraid it'll vanish or not work well if I do.
This is for iOS btw.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
You will lose expansion icons but the 'censored' cards will show uncensored from Gatherer.
sounds like it's okay to update then.
Didn't want to lose functionality on this great app!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
It appears Tan Thor Jen has updated Decked Builder and replaced the deck builder functionality with a "Buylist" function. It doesn't look significantly different than before... I'm still not updating it, because I'm worried he'll be formally sued. (I was able to test out the updated app on a friend's iPad.)
It will be interesting to see how Hasbro reacts to this app now...
It appears Tan Thor Jen has updated Decked Builder and replaced the deck builder functionality with a "Buylist" function. It doesn't look significantly different than before... I'm still not updating it, because I'm worried he'll be formally sued. (I was able to test out the updated app on a friend's iPad.)
It will be interesting to see how Hasbro reacts to this app now...
I guess there's no way to test decks in-app now though? I have to wonder if there's a way to just update the card database 'offline' without updating the app, otherwise I guess Dark Ascension is the last set I'll get in the app if there's no deck testing any more.
I guess there's no way to test decks in-app now though? I have to wonder if there's a way to just update the card database 'offline' without updating the app, otherwise I guess Dark Ascension is the last set I'll get in the app if there's no deck testing any more.
Well, quite frankly everything looks identical. The testing functions were still there. I'm pretty sure he intends to continue updating card sets, because of all the links into MOTL and TCGPlayer.
As I said, I'm not sure how he expects to NOT get another cease & desist letter... If not get served with a lawsuit.
Does no one use MTG apps?/Bump?
I'm leaving this thread open, since I believe the topic does belong in Magic Software. However, you might want to discuss it here:
-GR
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
That said, it's good, but not good enough.
No free app I have found will let you do a true EDH mode.
I want one that can do life, poison, and general damage. And if I had my way, it would do multiple general damage as well.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
tell me how, maybe I'm just slow! lol
BTW, other than me apparently being dense, I love the app!
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Android market is more open-source, which is why Google doesn't have as much reign over it, however, it does allow a tad more freedom.
On topic, that sucks, pretty, pretty bad. Hopefully WotC's is as good as MTG Deck Forge.
EDIT: Also, where was this in the forums or on the WotC page?
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Pefect, thanks! The new game was the button I was missing.
Great app gets even better!
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Something I am curious about though, how did we know that they were sending cease and desist letters to the app developers?
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
> card search (with prices)
> life counters (with history), general damage, general extra recast cost, poison. (up to 8 players)
> mana pool
> deck management, stats and starting hand emulator (only for pro version)
> wishlist
> random dice (d4, d6, d10, d20, plane die, and coin)
> deck statistics
> includes personal collection
'Greatness, at any cost.'
Rafiq - Karador - Teferi - Momir Vig - Reaper King - Daretti
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
This is madness! -____-'
'Greatness, at any cost.'
Rafiq - Karador - Teferi - Momir Vig - Reaper King - Daretti
For good or ill, WotC/Hasbro has every legal right to do this, in fact it may even be required of them legally. While copyright law does not require enforcement by the owner of said copyright, trademark law does (The penalty being loss of said trademark for willfully allowing continued infringement). At least this is the case in the United States, where WotC and Hasbro are based, along with Apple and Google who own the relevant app stores.
That said, an argument could be made that these apps are educational in nature and thus fall under fair use. That they are providing reference information not unlike an encyclopedia or an omnipedia (An encyclopedia about a specific subject). A counter argument could be made that because said apps republish the entirety of the MTG collection they are going above and beyond simple use of reference material (Most apps provide full art digital reproductions of each card). A clever app designer might be able to work around this be not embedding any information directly (Except perhaps card names in a deck list) and instead searching The gatherer whenever a user wants information on a card, pulling up The Gatherer in an in-app browser page.
Frankly though these are grey areas in the law and how well one could circumvent matters may be a moot point. The fact of the matter is, in the United States anyone or any company can file a lawsuit or a Cease & Desist whether the law is on their side or not. It is up to the courts to settle the matter, and many simple don't have the financial capability to defend themselves in court on such matters (This is something companies often count on).
Thus this really isn't the place to get heavy into the legal "who's at fault" talk as honestly we're not qualified. But what I think would be productive to talk about is how we think this will effect the magic community and what sort of precedent does it set? Will other deck building software packages have to watch out, and what about web sites that use the likeness of cards for things other than selling them (For which they are immune legally)? Is this just a one time thing because WotC wants to get into the app market and is using the law to remove competition and it will stop here, or could it go further than this?
Is there anything we as players of MtG should do about it? Should we write to WotC/Hasbro telling them of our displeasure and that we think they're going to hurt the community doing this? If WotC/Hasbro's concern is people making money off their product unfairing should we lobby for a way for app developers to license the use of MtG information in their apps? WotC ultimately wants to sell more cards, perhaps the apps could link to a WotC website where players can buy boosters and etc and the app designer and WotC split the profits?
EDIT:
When I created this thread I didn't see anything talking about the issue in Magic Software that hadn't been closed down. I've now seen that there is indeed a thread about this issue in Magic General (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=389490), though it is an issue about Magic Software it can have broader implications as my own post indicates. Regardless my thread is redundant...
-ZATZAi | Southern California | Vintage / Legacy / Commander / Modern / Extended
This thread existed and was open. I merged your post here. The link to the other thread was added to this one's OP.
I'm leaving this thread open, since I believe the topic does belong in Magic Software. However, you might want to discuss it in the other thread.
-GR
My YouTube Channel
-ZATZAi | Southern California | Vintage / Legacy / Commander / Modern / Extended
I don't know how many of you use this software, but on iPad, it is the most glorious, usable, and wonderful deck building software I've ever seen.
Kiss it goodbye, a casualty of WOTC's new MTG tools app. If you can't beat 'em, sue 'em.
Yah he said he's going to release a DKA update, then the one to follow that will disable deck building functionality. So it looks like DKA will be the last update I get for this app, it's just too awesome and makes it so easy to research cards and build decks. Deck building and collection tracking is at the core of what the app does, it's not just a big oracle reference.
So this will sadly kill the app.
-ZATZAi | Southern California | Vintage / Legacy / Commander / Modern / Extended
What happens if I update iMTG?
I've been letting it linger but am afraid it'll vanish or not work well if I do.
This is for iOS btw.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
sounds like it's okay to update then.
Didn't want to lose functionality on this great app!
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
It will be interesting to see how Hasbro reacts to this app now...
I guess there's no way to test decks in-app now though? I have to wonder if there's a way to just update the card database 'offline' without updating the app, otherwise I guess Dark Ascension is the last set I'll get in the app if there's no deck testing any more.
Trade thread - not up to date
Well, quite frankly everything looks identical. The testing functions were still there. I'm pretty sure he intends to continue updating card sets, because of all the links into MOTL and TCGPlayer.
As I said, I'm not sure how he expects to NOT get another cease & desist letter... If not get served with a lawsuit.