Now, last time we looked at Avacyn, she had a demonic spear in her heart according to here. So how did she come out of the Helvault "pure, whole, and eternal" according to here? It looks like a pretty giant plot hole--what the heck was going on inside the Helvault?
just reading that article, all I could think was Grislebrand got owned.
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And, well, just because she took a demonic spear, doesn't mean it seriously affected her. After all, her only problem was being dragged into the Helvault, not being weakened by the spear.
I'd personally just like to know more about what goes on in the Helvault. How is it that beings can be contained within a ROCK?! We're talking magic here, yes, but they still have a physical form that departs so they have to go SOMEWHERE. From a purely physical perspective even if it were that big all the demons in it would have filled it up. Wherever they're going, it is NOT in the rock itself. Some sort of mini-plane, perhaps?
What is it, how does it keep things contained, where do they go and what do they experience? Some of the fluff I've read seems to indicate that Avacyn was aware that she was in the Helvault, meaning they don't lose sentience in there, wherever "there" is. I also think it's fairly safe to assume that the people in the Helvault are all on their own (I could lay out the reasoning, but I won't to save time).
Anyway, I think it's safe to say that if that's the case, her body probably had time to heal and recover while she waited for it to be broken. And even if it didn't, she's a white-aligned ANGEL. If there's one type of magic white's good at, it's healing and purifying.
Also, I'd like to express that there's no real contradiction in the "pure and enternal" parts. Griselbrand is a badass, but I don't think even he could corrupt Avacyn with just a poke of his spear.
I'd personally just like to know more about what goes on in the Helvault. How is it that beings can be contained within a ROCK?! We're talking magic here, yes, but they still have a physical form that departs so they have to go SOMEWHERE. From a purely physical perspective even if it were that big all the demons in it would have filled it up. Wherever they're going, it is NOT in the rock itself. Some sort of mini-plane, perhaps?
What is it, how does it keep things contained, where do they go and what do they experience? Some of the fluff I've read seems to indicate that Avacyn was aware that she was in the Helvault, meaning they don't lose sentience in there, wherever "there" is. I also think it's fairly safe to assume that the people in the Helvault are all on their own (I could lay out the reasoning, but I won't to save time).
Anyway, I think it's safe to say that if that's the case, her body probably had time to heal and recover while she waited for it to be broken. And even if it didn't, she's a white-aligned ANGEL. If there's one type of magic white's good at, it's healing and purifying.
Also, I'd like to express that there's no real contradiction in the "pure and enternal" parts. Griselbrand is a badass, but I don't think even he could corrupt Avacyn with just a poke of his spear.
Demons and angels are beings composed of mana. They likely were reduced to an energy form when they got thrown into the Hevault.
Maybe the rock acts a bit like a porta lto some other plane? Or, maybe the energy idea is true, as mana has no physical form IN MOST CASES, and Angels and Demons are beings made entirely of mana, just very focused.
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I am frankly a lot more disturbed by the whole "Wolfir" thing.
That truly seems to come out of nowhere. Avacyn randomly gaining a "new power" that could have saved thousands of lives in the past even ruins the INN and DKA parts of the story, from a flavor standpoint.
I am frankly a lot more disturbed by the whole "Wolfir" thing.
That truly seems to come out of nowhere. Avacyn randomly gaining a "new power" that could have saved thousands of lives in the past even ruins the INN and DKA parts of the story, from a flavor standpoint.
I have a theory that Avacyn becomes as powerful as needed to keep the balance, and since all those demons got out she has gotten a boost.
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A bit OT: Then the theory that the rumored Moonfolk 'walker was sealed into the Helvault is thrown out of the window then?
I never understood why that was thought up in the first place.
The only thing that was sealed into the Helvault were demons (and then Avacyn). Wolves and vampires weren't tossed in there.
Spirits might have been.
I am frankly a lot more disturbed by the whole "Wolfir" thing.
That truly seems to come out of nowhere. Avacyn randomly gaining a "new power" that could have saved thousands of lives in the past even ruins the INN and DKA parts of the story, from a flavor standpoint.
Maybe Sorin has to do something with it. That will give him something to do in this set at least.
That is strange...but I don't think it ruins the flavor as long as there are still chaotic werewolves.
Even if they all are "good" now, there's still zombies, ghosts, vampires, and all the other unpleasant beings that go bump in the night. It's been made very clear that the evil on Innistrad is so deep that it will never go away, and that Avacyn's existence never fixed the problem, but just made it fair for the humans.
You could also look at it from a different perspective.
There's also something to be said for the action of changing them itself. Is it really just to completely overwrite the thoughts and feelings of another group of beings, without their consent or desire?
Normally when that happens in our world, it's called "brainwashing."
We don't know what goes on in the Helvault. Is it possible that Avacyn was corrupted a bit in it, hanging out with all the energy of all those evil beings?
My theory is that the Helvault acts as big white mana battery similar to the Null Moon. It collects white mana from the moon. Avacyn is made of white mana so the injuries she took from the fight are healed with all that mana. The demons are of black mana. The least I can think all that white mana can do to them is trap/suspend them inside the Helvault.
Seriously, though, I think the "reduced to mana, and recomposed upon being release" sounds good until we get definitive info.
The more I keep reading this theory the more I like it.
At the same time it makes the Helvault sound like a giant Poke'ball.
Think of her injuries this way, how many people get shot, stabbed, or otherwise badly hurt every day. After a little medical help we just need time to heal, and we're only human. Avacyn is an Angel with a huge amount of power. If they were all in some type of stasis while in the Helvault then she got the time she needed to heal.
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There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
Maybe the rock acts a bit like a porta lto some other plane? Or, maybe the energy idea is true, as mana has no physical form IN MOST CASES, and Angels and Demons are beings made entirely of mana, just very focused.
Don't worry. Silph Co. is working on the new Master Helvault, able to capture anything.
Wow, Barinellos, all this time I've posted in the Storyline forums and this is probably the first joke I've seen (read?) you make... Good to know that even in as dark days as these for Storyline buffs like us, there's a degree of levity within our minds in that regard.
I am frankly a lot more disturbed by the whole "Wolfir" thing.
That truly seems to come out of nowhere. Avacyn randomly gaining a "new power" that could have saved thousands of lives in the past even ruins the INN and DKA parts of the story, from a flavor standpoint.
Avacyn offered repentant humans afflicted by the lycanthropic curse a special place at her side. If they promised to serve as guardians of humanity, she would transform their curse, fusing the two warring aspects into a single noble creature. Many accepted her offer, and she transformed them into the wolfir.
This tells me a few things: 1. The power to do this had to be something that is done willingly. It specifically mentions only the repentant werewolves, not the wantons and 2. The power to do this likely wasn't new but something that Avacyn wasn't allowed to do unless things got REALLY bad. Remember, Avacyn's job is to keep balance, not wipe the darkness out. When things weren't that far out of whack her hands were probably tied (White believes in laws and rules even if they can't get around them, though they usually can, if they can't they'll still follow them).
She can be damaged, but she cannot be destroyed.
And at the end of turn, damage is removed.
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She should've emerged from the Helvault with her
trollPsychatog face on.But to be serious, we all know white is no stranger to healing magic.
What is it, how does it keep things contained, where do they go and what do they experience? Some of the fluff I've read seems to indicate that Avacyn was aware that she was in the Helvault, meaning they don't lose sentience in there, wherever "there" is. I also think it's fairly safe to assume that the people in the Helvault are all on their own (I could lay out the reasoning, but I won't to save time).
Anyway, I think it's safe to say that if that's the case, her body probably had time to heal and recover while she waited for it to be broken. And even if it didn't, she's a white-aligned ANGEL. If there's one type of magic white's good at, it's healing and purifying.
Also, I'd like to express that there's no real contradiction in the "pure and enternal" parts. Griselbrand is a badass, but I don't think even he could corrupt Avacyn with just a poke of his spear.
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Demons and angels are beings composed of mana. They likely were reduced to an energy form when they got thrown into the Hevault.
...then that must be one very energetic rock.
By the lovely AWOL of Damnation Studios.
A bit OT: Then the theory that the rumored Moonfolk 'walker was sealed into the Helvault is thrown out of the window then?
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That truly seems to come out of nowhere. Avacyn randomly gaining a "new power" that could have saved thousands of lives in the past even ruins the INN and DKA parts of the story, from a flavor standpoint.
I have a theory that Avacyn becomes as powerful as needed to keep the balance, and since all those demons got out she has gotten a boost.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I never understood why that was thought up in the first place.
The only thing that was sealed into the Helvault were demons (and then Avacyn). Wolves and vampires weren't tossed in there.
Spirits might have been.
Maybe Sorin has to do something with it. That will give him something to do in this set at least.
Even if they all are "good" now, there's still zombies, ghosts, vampires, and all the other unpleasant beings that go bump in the night. It's been made very clear that the evil on Innistrad is so deep that it will never go away, and that Avacyn's existence never fixed the problem, but just made it fair for the humans.
You could also look at it from a different perspective.
There's also something to be said for the action of changing them itself. Is it really just to completely overwrite the thoughts and feelings of another group of beings, without their consent or desire?
Normally when that happens in our world, it's called "brainwashing."
We don't know what goes on in the Helvault. Is it possible that Avacyn was corrupted a bit in it, hanging out with all the energy of all those evil beings?
By the lovely AWOL of Damnation Studios.
...What?
Seriously, though, I think the "reduced to mana, and recomposed upon being release" sounds good until we get definitive info.
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The more I keep reading this theory the more I like it.
At the same time it makes the Helvault sound like a giant Poke'ball.
Think of her injuries this way, how many people get shot, stabbed, or otherwise badly hurt every day. After a little medical help we just need time to heal, and we're only human. Avacyn is an Angel with a huge amount of power. If they were all in some type of stasis while in the Helvault then she got the time she needed to heal.
There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
INB4 ZOMG ULGROTHA HOMELANDS PORTAL ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG
Anyway, On topic: With the Helvault gone, how will Avacyn trap demons?
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Don't worry. Silph Co. is working on the new Master Helvault, able to capture anything.
Wow, Barinellos, all this time I've posted in the Storyline forums and this is probably the first joke I've seen (read?) you make... Good to know that even in as dark days as these for Storyline buffs like us, there's a degree of levity within our minds in that regard.
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
It says in the new article here
This tells me a few things: 1. The power to do this had to be something that is done willingly. It specifically mentions only the repentant werewolves, not the wantons and 2. The power to do this likely wasn't new but something that Avacyn wasn't allowed to do unless things got REALLY bad. Remember, Avacyn's job is to keep balance, not wipe the darkness out. When things weren't that far out of whack her hands were probably tied (White believes in laws and rules even if they can't get around them, though they usually can, if they can't they'll still follow them).
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actually, this does correlate a lot with Avacyn's quest pre-Helvault imprisonment:
"Gotta Catch 'Em All!"
just be glad Team Rocket can't planeswalk...
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