*I* consider what he did cheating. I never called him a cheater as defined by IPG or said he should receive any
penalty greater than what his play warranted. I don't think he should be banned or face any sanction greater than
anyone else who would have played a Darkblast and not paid the mana for it.
You realize how ridiculous you sound? You called him a cheater, then you claim you called him a Valrian-definition of a cheater, not a IPG-definition of a cheater. Clues: we don't care about your personal, private, in-your-head idioms.
If you're ready to change the meaning of words to your own private definition, then please, keep your conversation to yourself. Publish a dictionary and put it on sale on Amazon. But please stop trying to convince others to use words to mean what you want them to mean. Cheaters means people having an intention of cheating.
Anyway, you already pretty much talked yourself out of consideration when you wrongly characterized how it's treated in other sports and argued for flat sanctions regardless of intents, with cheaters (you know, real cheaters, rest-of-the-world definition here) being treated no worse than accidental misplays.
I am entitled to my own opinion. I am not required to agree with the IPG definition (although I must abide by it). That is the basis for debate, not ignorance.
Yes, you're entitled to your opinion, as am I. And right now my opinion about your responses is not one I can publicly voice without earning an infraction from the mods so I'll keep my mouth shut on that.
What you and other people in this thread are NOT allowed to do is label somebody as a cheater because YOU'RE definition of cheating is different from the rest of the world.
As somebody above me said, if you want to make up your own definitions, go create a dictionary and upload it to Amazon. But keep it out of this discussion.
Yes, you have absolutely lost this thread.
(It boggles my mind that I am still surprised that such narrow minded, opinionated people like this exist)
What you and other people in this thread are NOT allowed to do is label somebody as a cheater because YOU'RE definition of cheating is different from the rest of the world.
Did I label him a cheater? I said *I* consider what he did as cheating. I never said he was a cheater as far as the IPG was involved. I never said he should be banned, DQ'ed, or receive any harsher penalties than what the rules called for, which was apparently a warning.
Man, a lot of people really woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
Did I label him a cheater? I said *I* consider what he did as cheating. I never said he was a cheater as far as the IPG was involved. I never said he should be banned, DQ'ed, or receive any harsher penalties than what the rules called for, which was apparently a warning.
Man, a lot of people really woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
Calling someone a "cheater" is a very serious charge. That's why people are upset. The fact that your definition of cheater is different is the problem. Because most people are on the same page. Except for you who still insist on calling mistakes cheating.
Did I label him a cheater? I said *I* consider what he did as cheating. I never said he was a cheater as far as the IPG was involved. I never said he should be banned, DQ'ed, or receive any harsher penalties than what the rules called for, which was apparently a warning.
Man, a lot of people really woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
Are you REALLY this obtuse?
Definition of CHEAT
transitive verb
1
: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2
: to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
intransitive verb
1
a : to practice fraud or trickery
b : to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>
There you have it. That is the definition of the verb to cheat. If you claim
he cheated, which the definition doesn't even fit to what happened, then you are calling him a cheater.
Man, a lot of people really woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
maybe we did, but this whole thread is really a demonstration of the ****tiness of this community. people think they can go and make serious accusations against people and that its ok. its pretty important to get this right. in Magic, being revealed as a Cheater is the highest offense possible. it gets you suspended or banned. thats the Magic equivalent of a felony conviction. there's no room to play fast and loose with this type of language when the accusations are serious.
maybe we did, but this whole thread is really a demonstration of the ****tiness of this community. people think they can go and make serious accusations against people and that its ok
I think you are lumping me in with some other posters. I never called him a cheater, I said in my definition of cheating, he cheated, but acknowledged that he did not cheat by IPG standards, he was not a cheater by IPG standards, and never said he should receive any penalty reserved for cheaters under IPG guidelines, amd I never called him a cheater
People may disagree with my personal definition of cheating, and thats fine. I am happy to agree to disagree with people.
I guess it was my mistake trying to have a broader discussion around cheating in a thread written about a specific incident. Lesson learned
That's because you have confusing definitions. You said he cheated. But he's not a cheater. No one else uses language like this which is why everyone is disagreeing with you.
You have to understand that you DID call him a cheater even IF you have a different definition.
It's a serious accusation.
If I call you a murderer I expect you to get mad. I do no expect to be able to say "My definition of murderer is different from yours." and expect you to be ok with it.
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You have to understand that you DID call him a cheater even IF you have a different definition.
I didn't call him a cheater. I said I consider a cheater to be someone who cheats multiple times. I then said that I don't follow this guy and have no idea if he does stuff like this all the time. So I don't think he is a cheater. I think he unintentionally cheated in that match. That's it.
I didn't call him a cheater. I said I consider a cheater to be someone who cheats multiple times. I then said that I don't follow this guy and have no idea if he does stuff like this all the time. So I don't think he is a cheater. I think he unintentionally cheated in that match. That's it.
All of those definitions are different than everyone else's definitions.
And FYI: people don't like being called cheaters or told that they cheated. If you want to continue to use your definitions, you should be aware of that. And probably not tell people that they cheated when they just made a mistake.
I didn't call him a cheater. I said I consider a cheater to be someone who cheats multiple times. I then said that I don't follow this guy and have no idea if he does stuff like this all the time. So I don't think he is a cheater. I think he unintentionally made a play error in that match. That's it.
There, I fixed that for you. And until you admit you're using the wrong term, this argument isn't going to end, because YOU ARE WRONG.
I challenge you LBS, CorpT, Kahedron, Dracilic, pierrebai, and others interested:
What would you have done as a Judge if you were watching this table at the time it happened, and saw roughly the same as we see in that video ?
Not wanting to describe too many "leads" but from the point that you become sure you have to interrupt the match and do something (is there a chance that you wouldnt do anything ?);
- for how long would you still wait in order to give the opponent time to take initiative either towards opponent or directly through a Judge call ?
- for how long would you still wait in order to give the player time to correct his own fault ?
- How would you approach the match table and player(s) ?
- What would be the least and most strict verdict you potentially could end up with ?
Edit; erm... I thought I was in the "other thread", which means the one with where a player toppled the top of his deck and put the wrong amount of cards into his hand. Though still =) But ignore if youd like to.
I challenge you LBS, CorpT, Kahedron, Dracilic, pierrebai, and others interested:
What would you have done as a Judge if you were watching this table at the time it happened, and saw roughly the same as we see in that video ?
Not wanting to describe too many "leads" but from the point that you become sure you have to interrupt the match and do something (is there a chance that you wouldnt do anything ?);
- for how long would you still wait in order to give the opponent time to take initiative either towards opponent or directly through a Judge call ?
- for how long would you still wait in order to give the player time to correct his own fault ?
- How would you approach the match table and player(s) ?
- What would be the least and most strict verdict you potentially could end up with ?
I would immediately tell the player that they need to tap their mana to play that spell right on the spot. Assuming as a judge I can do this (I don't know because I'm not a judge and have little desire to become one) I would assume that's the end of the whole ordeal.
As to what penalty, none. I would view it as an honest mistake made after 12 hours of playing Magic.
That's because you have confusing definitions. You said he cheated. But he's not a cheater. No one else uses language like this which is why everyone is disagreeing with you.
Whatever, Ray Comfort.
Have you ever broken the law? Then you're a criminal.
Have you ever lied? Then you're a liar
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What's the big deal? You could have played multiple Righteous Avengers for years now.
You realize how ridiculous you sound? You called him a cheater, then you claim you called him a Valrian-definition of a cheater, not a IPG-definition of a cheater. Clues: we don't care about your personal, private, in-your-head idioms.
If you're ready to change the meaning of words to your own private definition, then please, keep your conversation to yourself. Publish a dictionary and put it on sale on Amazon. But please stop trying to convince others to use words to mean what you want them to mean. Cheaters means people having an intention of cheating.
Anyway, you already pretty much talked yourself out of consideration when you wrongly characterized how it's treated in other sports and argued for flat sanctions regardless of intents, with cheaters (you know, real cheaters, rest-of-the-world definition here) being treated no worse than accidental misplays.
You lost the thread.
Yes, you're entitled to your opinion, as am I. And right now my opinion about your responses is not one I can publicly voice without earning an infraction from the mods so I'll keep my mouth shut on that.
What you and other people in this thread are NOT allowed to do is label somebody as a cheater because YOU'RE definition of cheating is different from the rest of the world.
As somebody above me said, if you want to make up your own definitions, go create a dictionary and upload it to Amazon. But keep it out of this discussion.
Yes, you have absolutely lost this thread.
(It boggles my mind that I am still surprised that such narrow minded, opinionated people like this exist)
VENGEANCE!
JUSTICE!
So Pro I have an alpha Volcanic Island
Did I label him a cheater? I said *I* consider what he did as cheating. I never said he was a cheater as far as the IPG was involved. I never said he should be banned, DQ'ed, or receive any harsher penalties than what the rules called for, which was apparently a warning.
Man, a lot of people really woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
Calling someone a "cheater" is a very serious charge. That's why people are upset. The fact that your definition of cheater is different is the problem. Because most people are on the same page. Except for you who still insist on calling mistakes cheating.
Are you REALLY this obtuse?
Definition of CHEAT
transitive verb
1
: to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2
: to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
intransitive verb
1
a : to practice fraud or trickery
b : to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>
There you have it. That is the definition of the verb to cheat. If you claim
he cheated, which the definition doesn't even fit to what happened, then you are calling him a cheater.
You can't have it both ways.
I never called him a cheater
maybe we did, but this whole thread is really a demonstration of the ****tiness of this community. people think they can go and make serious accusations against people and that its ok. its pretty important to get this right. in Magic, being revealed as a Cheater is the highest offense possible. it gets you suspended or banned. thats the Magic equivalent of a felony conviction. there's no room to play fast and loose with this type of language when the accusations are serious.
I think you are lumping me in with some other posters. I never called him a cheater, I said in my definition of cheating, he cheated, but acknowledged that he did not cheat by IPG standards, he was not a cheater by IPG standards, and never said he should receive any penalty reserved for cheaters under IPG guidelines, amd I never called him a cheater
People may disagree with my personal definition of cheating, and thats fine. I am happy to agree to disagree with people.
I guess it was my mistake trying to have a broader discussion around cheating in a thread written about a specific incident. Lesson learned
That's because you have confusing definitions. You said he cheated. But he's not a cheater. No one else uses language like this which is why everyone is disagreeing with you.
It's a serious accusation.
If I call you a murderer I expect you to get mad. I do no expect to be able to say "My definition of murderer is different from yours." and expect you to be ok with it.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
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I didn't call him a cheater. I said I consider a cheater to be someone who cheats multiple times. I then said that I don't follow this guy and have no idea if he does stuff like this all the time. So I don't think he is a cheater. I think he unintentionally cheated in that match. That's it.
All of those definitions are different than everyone else's definitions.
OK. We can agree to disagree.
By your logic, you wouldn't call someone who only murdered once a murderer.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane for the awesome Sig.
Currently Playing- EDH
GGGOmnath, Locus of the LifestreamGGG
BBBShirei, Lord of PoniesBBB
UWRasputin Dreamweaver, Russia's Greatest Love MachineUW
UBWZur, Killer of FunUBW
UGWTreva, Princess of CanterlotUGW
RWTajic, Master of the Reverse BladeRW
RRRZirilan, How to Train Your DragonRRR
PDH Decks
Gelectrode
Ascended Lawmage
Blaze Commando
And FYI: people don't like being called cheaters or told that they cheated. If you want to continue to use your definitions, you should be aware of that. And probably not tell people that they cheated when they just made a mistake.
There, I fixed that for you. And until you admit you're using the wrong term, this argument isn't going to end, because YOU ARE WRONG.
Yeah, obtuse just about describes it.
What would you have done as a Judge if you were watching this table at the time it happened, and saw roughly the same as we see in that video ?
Not wanting to describe too many "leads" but from the point that you become sure you have to interrupt the match and do something (is there a chance that you wouldnt do anything ?);
- for how long would you still wait in order to give the opponent time to take initiative either towards opponent or directly through a Judge call ?
- for how long would you still wait in order to give the player time to correct his own fault ?
- How would you approach the match table and player(s) ?
- What would be the least and most strict verdict you potentially could end up with ?
Edit; erm... I thought I was in the "other thread", which means the one with where a player toppled the top of his deck and put the wrong amount of cards into his hand. Though still =) But ignore if youd like to.
Noah Weil on scouting, an attorney from Seattle with 20 Pro Tour appearances.
I would immediately tell the player that they need to tap their mana to play that spell right on the spot. Assuming as a judge I can do this (I don't know because I'm not a judge and have little desire to become one) I would assume that's the end of the whole ordeal.
As to what penalty, none. I would view it as an honest mistake made after 12 hours of playing Magic.
End of story.
Possibly to get him a cup of coffee or pro plus to help him wake up.
There is no indication any where that this was intentional so there is no need for any harsher penalties than that.
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Whatever, Ray Comfort.
Have you ever broken the law? Then you're a criminal.
Have you ever lied? Then you're a liar
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