Could someone tell me what all of the broken or otherwise very powerful cards in the Urza's block were? I know of a few: Yawgmoth's Bargain, Yawgmoth's Will, Memory Jar, Metalworker. Not sure on the rest.
Could someone tell me what all of the broken or otherwise very powerful cards in the Urza's block were? I know of a few: Yawgmoth's Bargain, Yawgmoth's Will, Memory Jar, Metalworker. Not sure on the rest.
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Naturally, a number of these cards are dependent on:
1. Supporting cards
2. Deck type
3. Format
Some are more powerful than others. By today's standards, almost all of these would be considered overpowered. Some have been reprinted...even recently (see Quicksilver Amulet) but most of these you will never see print again. Many are banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage.
Was Serra's Sanctum ever abused? We all know it's power in Legacy Reanimator... but what about the days it was in Standard?
I believe the deck you're talking about is enchantress, not reanimator.
Serra's sanctum is banned in block constructed, so i assume it did something absurd. I didn't play back then though, so probably better to default to an older player.
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currently playing---
Legacy: B currently brewing... W
EDH: RRosheen Meanderer G
The foolish wish for that which they desire. The cunning wish for that which they require.
I believe the deck you're talking about is enchantress, not reanimator.
Serra's sanctum is banned in block constructed, so i assume it did something absurd. I didn't play back then though, so probably better to default to an older player.
Whoops... yeah, that's what I meant!
I am an older player, but Urza's was when I was taking a break. Didn't know that it was banned in block though, that's pretty interesting.
There are so many ways to abuse this card it's a joke.
Yes, it's one of the more subtler cards from Urza's that I love, especially now, but make no mistake about it, in a Ux control deck, this thing is nuts.
If this thing was standard legal now, every blue mage would be playing it.
I believe the deck you're talking about is enchantress, not reanimator.
Serra's sanctum is banned in block constructed, so i assume it did something absurd. I didn't play back then though, so probably better to default to an older player.
It use to run wild growth effects on their lands and had cloud of fairies so you'd tap untap a Serra's and the land with a bunch of wild growths and I assume you can understand what you can do with a lot of mana.
There are so many ways to abuse this card it's a joke.
Yes, it's one of the more subtler cards from Urza's that I love, especially now, but make no mistake about it, in a Ux control deck, this thing is nuts.
If this thing was standard legal now, every blue mage would be playing it.
Is this what some people would call a "troll post"?
Otherwise, I do not understand how a card that is worse than a card that saw no play in standard would be overpowered.
I don't think he has anything against your card choice, it's just that you're claiming a bad card would be played in every blue Standard deck and say it as if it was a fact when it's only an opinion and a baseless one at that.
And that's fine. I have no problem with him disagreeing with. What I do have a problem with is being called a troll, especially when I took the time to even lay out the supporting cards I felt make the card playable.
And that's fine. I have no problem with him disagreeing with. What I do have a problem with is being called a troll, especially when I took the time to even lay out the supporting cards I felt make the card playable.
Not agreeing is one thing.
Insulting me is something else entirely.
Relax. He was questioning the intention of the post, not calling you a troll.
Back when I was playing, I remember there was a deck that had stroke of genius, time spiral, and tolarian academy that was supposed to be nuts. Never played it or even saw it I think. Read about it in Inquest or Scrye or one of those magazines.
And Sage was in Time Spiral. The OP was asking about Urza's block. Had he
asked about Time Spiral, I would have included Sage.
He wasn't saying that Sage of Epityr is a good card that should go on the list. He was comparing Spire Owl to Sage in order to question the quality of Spire Owl.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Back when I was playing, I remember there was a deck that had stroke of genius, time spiral, and tolarian academy that was supposed to be nuts. Never played it or even saw it I think. Read about it in Inquest or Scrye or one of those magazines.
I believe this was the first or second kill turn using Academy to generate enough mana to Stroke of Genius for the kill.
I don't remember the exact way it worked but it used artifacts and Academy to case time spiral untapping Academy, getting more cards and rinsing and repeating to get a nasty 1 shot stroke kill.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I believe this was the first or second kill turn using Academy to generate enough mana to Stroke of Genius for the kill.
I don't remember the exact way it worked but it used artifacts and Academy to case time spiral untapping Academy, getting more cards and rinsing and repeating to get a nasty 1 shot stroke kill.
I actually quit Magic because of these decks. Even after they banned Tolarian Academy, people kept making degenerate Stroke of Genius decks that required no interaction with the opponent and reliable turn 2 kills. People joked that the coin flip basically determined the winner and they were unfortunately half right. The other half was mulligan'ing till you had the perfect combo hand. IIRC that period was called "Combo Winter" (similar to Black Summer) for a reason and although WotC banned Tolarian Academy quickly, it left a sour taste in my mouth and I quit for 12 years, only recently returning.
Back on subject, IIRC Urza's Saga had 9 or so cards eventually banned and Memory Jar (from Legacy) was one of the first (if not the very first) card to be banned before it was even released to the public. Also surprised no one has yet to name Morphling yet. He was a beast that gave many Ux Control decks a win condition.
erm... thats not that great... i mean its nifty i suppose, but id be more afraid of venser + any splicer for example, or, going more bonkers, venser + a stoneforge mystic, or venser+ any threat generator.
not to mention how expensive that is.... i mean, venser costs 5, even in standard that's slow for something that is only a filter, splinter twin came down on turn 4 just to mention on a recent combo... not even touching on legacy here.
something like sensei's divining top is more like "broken" even when not combined with counterbalance
There you go, an actual list made out of a troll post (seriously, is Spire Owl + Venser actually better than Stonehorn Dignitary + Venser? And that combo doesn't even see play...).
LandBoySteve conveniently mentioned Spire Owl but conveniently forgot the following cards, currently played in every format they're legal:
Goblin Welder
Gaea's Cradle
Serra's Sanctum
Also, btw, "broken" is not subjective. You can't "think" something is broken. If you say "I think Spire Owl is broken", it means "Spire Owl might be broken. If enough people agree with me, then maybe it is broken". Clearly, nobody agrees with you. Therefore Spire Owl is not broken. If you want an equivalent subjective term, you can say "very good". "Broken", however, means something very specific; it means it should be banned in all formats forever because it does something inherently unfair (c.f. Yawgmoth's Will, Yawgmoth's Bargain). Digging 4 cards is not inherently unfair, even if it means you're drawing a bit better than your opponent in the short term. Or maybe you're one of those people who also thinks Sensei's Top is "broken" (btw, it isn't).
Add:
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Academy Rector
Back to Basics
Cathodion
Copper Gnomes
Deranged Hermit
Donate
Elvish Piper
Exhume
Exploration
Frantic Search
Gaea's Cradle
Goblin Lackey
Goblin Matron
Hidden Gibbons
Memory Jar
Metalworker
No Mercy
Priest of Titania
Quicksilver Amulet
Rancor
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Second Chance
Show and Tell
Smokestack
Snap
Spire Owl
Stroke of Genius
Tinker
Tolarian Academy
Tolarian Winds
Unearth
Urza's Incubator
Voltaic Key
Windfall
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Yawgmoth's Will
Naturally, a number of these cards are dependent on:
1. Supporting cards
2. Deck type
3. Format
Some are more powerful than others. By today's standards, almost all of these would be considered overpowered. Some have been reprinted...even recently (see Quicksilver Amulet) but most of these you will never see print again. Many are banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage.
Hope this helps.
I wish wizards would release another set like this. Or even a set that pays homage to it would be cool. We could see "fixed" versions of the cards.
Time Spiral paid homage to lots of old sets and had "fixed" versions of cards.
Also, Yawgmoth's Bargain was supposed to be a "fixed" necropotence.
I believe the deck you're talking about is enchantress, not reanimator.
Serra's sanctum is banned in block constructed, so i assume it did something absurd. I didn't play back then though, so probably better to default to an older player.
Legacy: B currently brewing... W
EDH: RRosheen Meanderer G
Uhwhat? What made this get a spot on that list?
I don't think Sage Owl was ever broken either. There's even a mostly-better card in Sage of Epityr.
In response to OP, basically any of the "free" spells (untap X lands when you cast it/comes into play) should be on the list.
Whoops... yeah, that's what I meant!
I am an older player, but Urza's was when I was taking a break. Didn't know that it was banned in block though, that's pretty interesting.
There are combos now that make this card broken to hell. Back then, maybe
not so much. Today, this can be abused to no end.
As I said, if you read my whole post, some of these cards are situational.
And Sage was in Time Spiral. The OP was asking about Urza's block. Had he
asked about Time Spiral, I would have included Sage.
That's how Owl got on the list.
Any other questions you'd like to ask?
Off the top of my head without even thinking?
Venser, The Sojourner
Dig 4 deep and rearrange every turn. Combine that with:
Forbidden Alchemy
Brainstorm
Ponder
Preordain
Or your dig spell of choice and this card is nuts.
Or even combine with
Augury Owl and the above.
There are so many ways to abuse this card it's a joke.
Yes, it's one of the more subtler cards from Urza's that I love, especially now, but make no mistake about it, in a Ux control deck, this thing is nuts.
If this thing was standard legal now, every blue mage would be playing it.
It use to run wild growth effects on their lands and had cloud of fairies so you'd tap untap a Serra's and the land with a bunch of wild growths and I assume you can understand what you can do with a lot of mana.
Only good deck.
Is this what some people would call a "troll post"?
Otherwise, I do not understand how a card that is worse than a card that saw no play in standard would be overpowered.
Please look up the definition of troll. Look, if you don't agree with my card choice, that's fine. You don't have to be insulting.
And that's fine. I have no problem with him disagreeing with. What I do have a problem with is being called a troll, especially when I took the time to even lay out the supporting cards I felt make the card playable.
Not agreeing is one thing.
Insulting me is something else entirely.
Relax. He was questioning the intention of the post, not calling you a troll.
EDH:
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Ulasht, the Hate Seed
Balthor the Defiled
Pround owner of a C/Ube
He wasn't saying that Sage of Epityr is a good card that should go on the list. He was comparing Spire Owl to Sage in order to question the quality of Spire Owl.
I believe this was the first or second kill turn using Academy to generate enough mana to Stroke of Genius for the kill.
I don't remember the exact way it worked but it used artifacts and Academy to case time spiral untapping Academy, getting more cards and rinsing and repeating to get a nasty 1 shot stroke kill.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I actually quit Magic because of these decks. Even after they banned Tolarian Academy, people kept making degenerate Stroke of Genius decks that required no interaction with the opponent and reliable turn 2 kills. People joked that the coin flip basically determined the winner and they were unfortunately half right. The other half was mulligan'ing till you had the perfect combo hand. IIRC that period was called "Combo Winter" (similar to Black Summer) for a reason and although WotC banned Tolarian Academy quickly, it left a sour taste in my mouth and I quit for 12 years, only recently returning.
Back on subject, IIRC Urza's Saga had 9 or so cards eventually banned and Memory Jar (from Legacy) was one of the first (if not the very first) card to be banned before it was even released to the public. Also surprised no one has yet to name Morphling yet. He was a beast that gave many Ux Control decks a win condition.
My Trade Thread
Current Decks:
Legacy:
GWR Punishing Maverick
UW Miracles
UR Sneak and Show
GWB Enchantress
erm... thats not that great... i mean its nifty i suppose, but id be more afraid of venser + any splicer for example, or, going more bonkers, venser + a stoneforge mystic, or venser+ any threat generator.
not to mention how expensive that is.... i mean, venser costs 5, even in standard that's slow for something that is only a filter, splinter twin came down on turn 4 just to mention on a recent combo... not even touching on legacy here.
something like sensei's divining top is more like "broken" even when not combined with counterbalance
yeah, the owl is a decent card, but its nowhere near gaia's cradle, tinker, time spiral, tolarian academy, etc. far far from broken in any format
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
There you go, an actual list made out of a troll post (seriously, is Spire Owl + Venser actually better than Stonehorn Dignitary + Venser? And that combo doesn't even see play...).
LandBoySteve conveniently mentioned Spire Owl but conveniently forgot the following cards, currently played in every format they're legal:
Goblin Welder
Gaea's Cradle
Serra's Sanctum
Also, btw, "broken" is not subjective. You can't "think" something is broken. If you say "I think Spire Owl is broken", it means "Spire Owl might be broken. If enough people agree with me, then maybe it is broken". Clearly, nobody agrees with you. Therefore Spire Owl is not broken. If you want an equivalent subjective term, you can say "very good". "Broken", however, means something very specific; it means it should be banned in all formats forever because it does something inherently unfair (c.f. Yawgmoth's Will, Yawgmoth's Bargain). Digging 4 cards is not inherently unfair, even if it means you're drawing a bit better than your opponent in the short term. Or maybe you're one of those people who also thinks Sensei's Top is "broken" (btw, it isn't).
Play (verb): Cast/Play
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Fetchland: Arid Mesa
Shockland: Watery Grave
M10 Dual: Glacial Fortress
Tinker and yawg will are probably more important than timetwister or time walk to most vintage decks. Powerful stuff.