What is the point of printing sub-par Mythics? I understand there's a quota to fill but surely those cards can be downgraded to regular Rares and leave the Mythics to be "worthy" of such a rarity. I'm sure we can all think of a few Mythics that could quite easily have been printed as regular rares.
In my mind, Mythic rares should be Planeswalkers, Legendary Creatures and cards that have a significant ability or impact that contributes to the game. Mythics shouldn't just be an "I win" card of course, but I'm sure we can all agree that there are a fair few Mythics (and a LOT of rares) that probably don't deserve such a status.
I'm not so ignorant that I would judge cards out of context and on face value (every card has it's use and place in a deck), I'm just questioning how Mythics are valued by Wizards and the community.
Do you think that all the current Mythics deserve "Mythic" status or should Wizards re-evaluate their generosity when deciding what is rewarded with such a stature?
Do you think Wizards have gotten better with their last couple of blocks?
The point of Mythic Rares are for flavor. In fact, it'd be better for the game if every Mythic sucked and all the good rare cards went to the Rare slot.
If every bad Mythic rare were replaced with a good rare then staple card prices would be much higher. SFM would have been a lot more expensive, and so would snapcaster mage now. I don't really like mythic rares anyways
Not every mythic has to be a tournament card either. There is quite a decent casual market for cards.
I personally love Primordial Hydra. I think it's a really cool card and I'm happy to run it in my hydra deck. I would not play it in competitive constructed deck.
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Mythics, when advertised, were supposed to be entirely bad but flavourful cards. That ended within the first couple sets printed with them.
Entirely bad? I believe the word you're looking for is "not utility cards".
Which they've kept up with mostly well, though I believe that Lotus Cobra should have never been mythic. However, since Zendikar, Wizards has gotten better at choosing what to make mythic and what not to. However, in Zendikar block, they were pretty bad with them, the cobra and Vengevine being the biggest offenders in terms of feeling more like utility cards that you wanted to run four-ofs in order to make decks work.
On the subject at hand, however, some mythic rares are going to be bad cards, but as long as they're particularly flavorful or do something interesting enough, then they'll get the slot, and not be bumped down to rare. The only mythic rare in Innistrad that i feel is lackluster is Balefire Dragon, not for flavor purposes (personally, I actually like it in the setting), but because it feels not much different from every other dragon ever.
If every mythic was good, people would be complaining about that, and now people are complaining that NOT all the mythics are good. What solution, other than doing away with mythics (which is not happening) is there?
Tis the game of "lottery" we play here... Not every pull-tab will be a winner, not every bingo card either... Not every booster will have good cards. I would argue though that most every mythic has value to even casual players.
Besides, I'm greatful for Mythics... staple rares are now super easy to get, and USUALLY cheap.
There's also Limited to consider; some cards are clearly meant for casual players, not for competitive constructed play, but are nonetheless so crushing in limited that printing them at rare would have a negative impact on the draft format.
There's also Limited to consider; some cards are clearly meant for casual players, not for competitive constructed play, but are nonetheless so crushing in limited that printing them at rare would have a negative impact on the draft format.
I agree 100%. Cards like Angelic Destiny have to be mythic so that everyone doesn't open it in limited.
There's also Limited to consider; some cards are clearly meant for casual players, not for competitive constructed play, but are nonetheless so crushing in limited that printing them at rare would have a negative impact on the draft format.
Of all the comments made so far I think this is the most insightful. Limited is why a LOT of cards get printed at higher rarities though they suck in most formats. Limited is when rarity is the MOST important. A mediocre to bad card can dominate a limited match and so often has to be printed at higher rarities.
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i am glad mythics are flavorful and are the way they are. alot of the best cards are rares (and you always pull a rare ina pack) mythics just make pulling packs more fun
Being a former yugioh player (in which you rarely ever pull a good card from the pack) i am glad to see tthat mtg players have a chance of at least pulling trade bait in every pack
The only mythic rare in Innistrad that i feel is lackluster is Balefire Dragon, not for flavor purposes (personally, I actually like it in the setting), but because it feels not much different from every other dragon ever.
It doesn't feel much different...until you face it in Limited. Then the flavor text becomes totally apropos. And I had even managed to fight through two decks packing Olivia Voldaren beforehand.
There's also Limited to consider; some cards are clearly meant for casual players, not for competitive constructed play, but are nonetheless so crushing in limited that printing them at rare would have a negative impact on the draft format.
Still, an argument could be made to make less insane bombs in Limited (or print more quality removal; mayhap more bomb specific stuff like Reprisal) so that the Mythic rarity would not be necessary. Because there aren't enough Mythic slots to contain stupid bombs and CA$$$$$$$H-MUNNEH! 30-dollar tournament staples. Mox Opal had to be a Mythic (why?) while both Sunblast Angel and Hoard Smelter Dragon ravaged Scars Limited. But since Wizards is absolutely in love with HYOOOOOGE critters as the face of play in Magic, I don't expect them to ever cut back on all the fatties. And, as a result, I doubt we'll see Limited formats that aren't super-swingy in the near future (Innistrad isn't that bad, however).
It doesn't feel much different...until you face it in Limited. Then the flavor text becomes totally apropos. And I had even managed to fight through two decks packing Olivia Voldaren beforehand.
Still, an argument could be made to make less insane bombs in Limited (or print more quality removal; mayhap more bomb specific stuff like Reprisal) so that the Mythic rarity would not be necessary. Because there aren't enough Mythic slots to contain stupid bombs and CA$$$$$$$H-MUNNEH! 30-dollar tournament staples. Mox Opal had to be a Mythic (why?) while both Sunblast Angel and Hoard Smelter Dragon ravaged Scars Limited. But since Wizards is absolutely in love with HYOOOOOGE critters as the face of play in Magic, I don't expect them to ever cut back on all the fatties. And, as a result, I doubt we'll see Limited formats that aren't super-swingy in the near future (Innistrad isn't that bad, however).
I went 4-0 (8-0) last FNM with a deck that didn't have good creature bombs. My best creature was murder of crows, followed by Geistcatcher Rig, although I did keep a bloodgift demon from whoever may have been running black. Only other semi bomb was the devil thing that deals 3 damage when it dies, I had to use every card in my colors cause I had 3 colors so that's how it went. The success of my deck was a good mana curve and aggressive creature drops, and burning vengeance with several flashback cards, burn spells, and snapcaster mage. That's not really a draft deck that was super dependent on good creature bombs and was strong, although I didn't play the 2nd best player in the pod, I did play the person that beat him though. I don't think Innistrad is as bad about the creatures bombs but I've only drafted once so far, murder of crows as an uncommon is really good in limited though
Mythics shouldn't be constructed tournament playable, they should be the most Timmy and flavorful cards around and often bombs in draft. Jace, cobra and swords are a poor example of what feels mythical whereas cards like furyborn hellkite and bloodlord of vaasgoth feel perfectly mythic to me.
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If every mythic was good, people would be complaining about that, and now people are complaining that NOT all the mythics are good.
People will always complain. If MTGO were updated tomorrow so that your computer spit out $20 bills while you played, someone would complain that the bills weren't sequential. When there's a patch to make them sequential, someone would then complain that their bills were too easy to track.
People will always complain. If MTGO were updated tomorrow so that your computer spit out $20 bills while you played, someone would complain that the bills weren't sequential. When there's a patch to make them sequential, someone would then complain that their bills were too easy to track.
I went 4-0 (8-0) last FNM with a deck that didn't have good creature bombs. My best creature was murder of crows, followed by Geistcatcher Rig, although I did keep a bloodgift demon from whoever may have been running black. Only other semi bomb was the devil thing that deals 3 damage when it dies, I had to use every card in my colors cause I had 3 colors so that's how it went. The success of my deck was a good mana curve and aggressive creature drops, and burning vengeance with several flashback cards, burn spells, and snapcaster mage. That's not really a draft deck that was super dependent on good creature bombs and was strong, although I didn't play the 2nd best player in the pod, I did play the person that beat him though. I don't think Innistrad is as bad about the creatures bombs but I've only drafted once so far, murder of crows as an uncommon is really good in limited though
Thanks for sharing, I think we can definitely make a good assertion on how Mythic and rare bombs affect Limited based on one players 4-0 at FNM.
There's also Limited to consider; some cards are clearly meant for casual players, not for competitive constructed play, but are nonetheless so crushing in limited that printing them at rare would have a negative impact on the draft format.
While this is definitely true for bumping cards from common to uncommon, or uncommon to rare, is this really something that is considered? You still only get one per pack (ignoring DFC shenanigans) so I can't see it really making that much of a difference. Besides, they had plenty of crazy cards at rare back before mythics were around, and draft still seemed to work fine then.
To me it still feels like the inclusion of mythics was designed to create artificial scarcity of certain cards, which somehow drives some people to buy more packs. Mythics must be making WotC money otherwise they'd have probably kept it as a special thing just for shards block. I'm on the side of people who want more mythics like Eternity Vessel or Hellkite Overlord rather than Vengevine or Skaab Ruinator.
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Thanks for sharing, I think we can definitely make a good assertion on how Mythic and rare bombs affect Limited based on one players 4-0 at FNM.
Your right, I was trying to say that Innistrad seems to be more balanced than previous sets. I guess I should have said hey look at the Innistrad set list, it's strongest non-mythic bomb is probably bloodgift demon and it's manageable, maybe Wizards will keep this block more balanced. Sorry for wasting everyone's time with my draft experience, go look at the cards and decide what you think at your Innistrad draft. I suppose it can be said well what if they mess it up in the next set, but what we have atm is limited format with the card pool it currently has, which is balanced. The assertion that powerful rare bombs messed up previous limited blocks is correct, bombs of that caliber are not rares in innistrad, that's my point so make it sound dumb as well, I'm a terrible debater
Wizards spams the mythics so it's harder to get Planeswalkers, and Titan status cards. They've been doing that for awhile now. Time Reversal... nuff said.
In my mind, Mythic rares should be Planeswalkers, Legendary Creatures and cards that have a significant ability or impact that contributes to the game. Mythics shouldn't just be an "I win" card of course, but I'm sure we can all agree that there are a fair few Mythics (and a LOT of rares) that probably don't deserve such a status.
I'm not so ignorant that I would judge cards out of context and on face value (every card has it's use and place in a deck), I'm just questioning how Mythics are valued by Wizards and the community.
Do you think that all the current Mythics deserve "Mythic" status or should Wizards re-evaluate their generosity when deciding what is rewarded with such a stature?
Do you think Wizards have gotten better with their last couple of blocks?
I personally love Primordial Hydra. I think it's a really cool card and I'm happy to run it in my hydra deck. I would not play it in competitive constructed deck.
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Entirely bad? I believe the word you're looking for is "not utility cards".
Which they've kept up with mostly well, though I believe that Lotus Cobra should have never been mythic. However, since Zendikar, Wizards has gotten better at choosing what to make mythic and what not to. However, in Zendikar block, they were pretty bad with them, the cobra and Vengevine being the biggest offenders in terms of feeling more like utility cards that you wanted to run four-ofs in order to make decks work.
On the subject at hand, however, some mythic rares are going to be bad cards, but as long as they're particularly flavorful or do something interesting enough, then they'll get the slot, and not be bumped down to rare. The only mythic rare in Innistrad that i feel is lackluster is Balefire Dragon, not for flavor purposes (personally, I actually like it in the setting), but because it feels not much different from every other dragon ever.
Besides, I'm greatful for Mythics... staple rares are now super easy to get, and USUALLY cheap.
I agree 100%. Cards like Angelic Destiny have to be mythic so that everyone doesn't open it in limited.
Of all the comments made so far I think this is the most insightful. Limited is why a LOT of cards get printed at higher rarities though they suck in most formats. Limited is when rarity is the MOST important. A mediocre to bad card can dominate a limited match and so often has to be printed at higher rarities.
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Being a former yugioh player (in which you rarely ever pull a good card from the pack) i am glad to see tthat mtg players have a chance of at least pulling trade bait in every pack
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It doesn't feel much different...until you face it in Limited. Then the flavor text becomes totally apropos. And I had even managed to fight through two decks packing Olivia Voldaren beforehand.
Still, an argument could be made to make less insane bombs in Limited (or print more quality removal; mayhap more bomb specific stuff like Reprisal) so that the Mythic rarity would not be necessary. Because there aren't enough Mythic slots to contain stupid bombs and CA$$$$$$$H-MUNNEH! 30-dollar tournament staples. Mox Opal had to be a Mythic (why?) while both Sunblast Angel and Hoard Smelter Dragon ravaged Scars Limited. But since Wizards is absolutely in love with HYOOOOOGE critters as the face of play in Magic, I don't expect them to ever cut back on all the fatties. And, as a result, I doubt we'll see Limited formats that aren't super-swingy in the near future (Innistrad isn't that bad, however).
I went 4-0 (8-0) last FNM with a deck that didn't have good creature bombs. My best creature was murder of crows, followed by Geistcatcher Rig, although I did keep a bloodgift demon from whoever may have been running black. Only other semi bomb was the devil thing that deals 3 damage when it dies, I had to use every card in my colors cause I had 3 colors so that's how it went. The success of my deck was a good mana curve and aggressive creature drops, and burning vengeance with several flashback cards, burn spells, and snapcaster mage. That's not really a draft deck that was super dependent on good creature bombs and was strong, although I didn't play the 2nd best player in the pod, I did play the person that beat him though. I don't think Innistrad is as bad about the creatures bombs but I've only drafted once so far, murder of crows as an uncommon is really good in limited though
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People will always complain. If MTGO were updated tomorrow so that your computer spit out $20 bills while you played, someone would complain that the bills weren't sequential. When there's a patch to make them sequential, someone would then complain that their bills were too easy to track.
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I never said that they got it right.
Thanks for sharing, I think we can definitely make a good assertion on how Mythic and rare bombs affect Limited based on one players 4-0 at FNM.
While this is definitely true for bumping cards from common to uncommon, or uncommon to rare, is this really something that is considered? You still only get one per pack (ignoring DFC shenanigans) so I can't see it really making that much of a difference. Besides, they had plenty of crazy cards at rare back before mythics were around, and draft still seemed to work fine then.
To me it still feels like the inclusion of mythics was designed to create artificial scarcity of certain cards, which somehow drives some people to buy more packs. Mythics must be making WotC money otherwise they'd have probably kept it as a special thing just for shards block. I'm on the side of people who want more mythics like Eternity Vessel or Hellkite Overlord rather than Vengevine or Skaab Ruinator.
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But trash like Praetor's Counsel needs to stop. Opening something so worthless in draft at that rarity is revolting.
Would you rather see Counsel as a rare so it gets drafted more often?
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Your right, I was trying to say that Innistrad seems to be more balanced than previous sets. I guess I should have said hey look at the Innistrad set list, it's strongest non-mythic bomb is probably bloodgift demon and it's manageable, maybe Wizards will keep this block more balanced. Sorry for wasting everyone's time with my draft experience, go look at the cards and decide what you think at your Innistrad draft. I suppose it can be said well what if they mess it up in the next set, but what we have atm is limited format with the card pool it currently has, which is balanced. The assertion that powerful rare bombs messed up previous limited blocks is correct, bombs of that caliber are not rares in innistrad, that's my point so make it sound dumb as well, I'm a terrible debater
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