So I finally got 3 planeswalkers and its brought some debate during gameplay with friends as to what is legal. so here are my questions.
1. Can I minus loyalty points the same turn I pump my Sarkhan Vol up to 6 to put five dragons into play.
2. Do planeswalkers tap, i dont think so. someone tried to tap my ajani
3. Can I use my Elspeths ability to +1 loyalty point to give target creature 3/3 + flying until end of turn after my opponent attacks me (so basically can i give loyalty points on my opponents turn?)
4. Can you fireball or destroy target permanent to planeswalker (my gut tells me yes)
5. Can you counter planeswalkers or their abilities with swerve, or counter target spell.
6. Someone tried to return permament planeswalker to my hand what happens to the loyalty counters I have already put on it? do they die off and my ajani comes out as a 3 like normal?
four non planeswalker questions
can a creature with shroud block my creature with protection from creatures enchanment? my friend seems to think so.
Can you swerve (change target of spell) (red blue card) a creature when it comes out, i know it works with instants but can they steal my creatures to come out on their side?
If someone puts a vampire link on my creature do they gain life or me?
Someone tried to return a token creature to my hand once, i dont believe its a permanent but my friend does, i was like how am i gonna stick a penny back in my hand bro, he also thinks they go to your grave yard which i dont believe.
So I finally got 3 planeswalkers and its brought some debate during gameplay with friends as to what is legal. so here are my questions.
1. Can I minus loyalty points the same turn I pump my Sarkhan Vol up to 6 to put five dragons into play.
No. You may only play one activated ability of a Planeswalker during your turn.
2. Do planeswalkers tap, i dont think so. someone tried to tap my ajani
Planeswalkers are permanents and can be tapped by a spell or ability as such. Since none of a planeswalker's abilities require tapping as a cost this isn't likely to make a difference in a game.
3. Can I use my Elspeths ability to +1 loyalty point to give target creature 3/3 + flying until end of turn after my opponent attacks me (so basically can i give loyalty points on my opponents turn?)
Activated abilities of planeswalkers can only be played when you could play a sorcery. So no, you can't play it during your opponent's turn.
4. Can you fireball or destroy target permanent to planeswalker (my gut tells me yes)
You can play, say, Desert Twister on a planeswalker as it's a permanent.
You can't directly Fireball a planeswalker though. What you have to do is Fireball the planeswalker's controller (assuming it isn't you) and then, when Fireball resolves, you can choose to redirect the damage to the planeswalker.
5. Can you counter planeswalkers or their abilities with swerve, or counter target spell.
You can counter the planeswalker while it's on the stack with anything that can counter a spell. Once it has entered play, you can only counter its abilities with something that specifically counters abilities such as Stifle.
6. Someone tried to return permament planeswalker to my hand what happens to the loyalty counters I have already put on it? do they die off and my ajani comes out as a 3 like normal?
When your planeswalker enters play again it is a new object with no memory of its previous existence, and will enter play with the number of loyalty counters the card indicates.
can a creature with shroud block my creature with protection from creatures enchanment? my friend seems to think so.
No. The creature with shroud is not being targeted by anything. Shroud doesn't let a creature ignore static abilities such as protection.
Can you swerve (change target of spell) (red blue card) a creature when it comes out, i know it works with instants but can they steal my creatures to come out on their side?
No. Creature spells do not have targets and therefore are not legal targets for Swerve.
If someone puts a vampire link on my creature do they gain life or me?
"You" refers to the controller of Vampiric Link. The aura's controller gains the life.
Someone tried to return a token creature to my hand once, i dont believe its a permanent but my friend does, i was like how am i gonna stick a penny back in my hand bro, he also thinks they go to your grave yard which i dont believe.
All tokens are permanents, so they can be returned to hand/destroyed/etc. just like any other permanent. Immediately after a token enters any zone other than in-play, it can no longer reenter play and will cease to exist the next time state-based effects are checked.
So yes, a token can exist in a player's hand or in a graveyard for a very brief period.
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I am no longer on MTGS staff, so please don't contact me asking me to do staff things. :|
1. No - each PW lets you play one of his abilities, at maximum, per turn.
2. PWs can be tapped - but that doesn't do anything.
3. No. PW abilities can only be played as sorceries.
4. PWs are permanents, and can be Vindicated. You can also redirect noncombat damage from your opponent to his PW.
5. PW spells use the stack and can be countered. Once they're in play, their activated abilities can only be countered by Stifle and friends.
6. Yes, when a PW leaves play, the loyalty counters it had on it vanish. When you play it again, it comes into play with a number of loyalty counters equal to that big number on it.
1. Shroud means "this permanent can't be the target of spells or abilities." Protection from **** means four things: "~can't be damaged by ****, can't be enchanted by ****, can't be blocked by ****, can't be targeted by ****." Shroud doesn't affect protection at all. A creature with protection from creatures is unblockable.
2. No. Creature spells don't have targets. Try something like Gather Specimens.
3. "You" on Vampiric Link refers to Link's controller, which is your opponent. He'll gain the life.
4. Tokens are permanents. They can be returned to your hand or put into a graveyard but they cease to exist when they leave play.
Any time when the controller of the Spirit Link doesn't also control the creature it enchants, it (the Loop) is immediately sent to graveyard due to an State-based-Effect for being attached to an illegal target. So Spirit Loop will never end on a creature that the Loop's controller doesn't control, and for this Enchanted creature has Lifelink does exactly the same as Whenever enchanted Creature deals damage, you gain that much life. on Spirit Loop.
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"Petals within petals within petals, tadpole. The truth lurks below an opulence of illusion."
—Neerdiv, fallowsage
Spirit Loop will never end on a creature that the Loop's controller doesn't control, and for this Enchanted creature has Lifelink does exactly the same as Whenever enchanted Creature deals damage, you gain that much life. on Spirit Loop.
While it's correct that the wording change on Spirit Loop did not introduce a functional change as to who gains the life, it is functionally different because the new version gives an ability to the enchanted creature whereas the old version didn't. This causes functional differences with respect to effects that remove abilities or effects that care whether a creature has abilities.
For example, a Grizzly Bears enchanted with Old Spirit Loop would still get a boost by Muraganda Petroglyphs; a Grizzly Bears enchanted with New Spirit Loop won't. Similarly, Snakeforming a Grizzly Bears enchanted with New Spirit Loop will take away the lifelink ability; a Grizzly Bears enchanted with Old Spirit Loop has no ability that Snakeform could take away.
Of course, these are corner cases, and Wizards decided that the added simplicity of the new wording outweighed the importance of keeping the functionality the same.
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Please use card tags when you're asking a question about specific cards: [c]Serra Angel[/c] -> Serra Angel.
Spirit Link is the same way. Loxodon Warhammer is in tenth and uses lifelink... which is exactly the same as saing "whenever this deals damage, gain that much life" (look at the original wording for the warhammer).
In tenth edition, they tried to make the commons and uncommons less confusing for beginners. The rares could be slightly more complex.
I believe WotC has abandoned this approach, as it doesn't make much sense and just goes to confuse more people (like the people in this thread).
Spirit Link is the same way. Loxodon Warhammer is in tenth and uses lifelink... which is exactly the same as saing "whenever this deals damage, gain that much life" (look at the original wording for the warhammer).
In tenth edition, they tried to make the commons and uncommons less confusing for beginners. The rares could be slightly more complex.
I believe WotC has abandoned this approach, as it doesn't make much sense and just goes to confuse more people (like the people in this thread).
Spirit Link does not grant the creature lifelink, Loxodon Warhammer and Spirit Loop do.
Spirit Link has the triggered ability so whoever controls Spirit Link gains the life. With lifelink, the creature has the ability so whoever controls the creature will gain the life.
Let me get one thing straight with you. When Condor and an official ruling disagree, 50% of the time the official ruling gets reversed later. The other 50% of the time, the rules get clarified/changed to make the ruling right when it really wasn't before.
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1. Can I minus loyalty points the same turn I pump my Sarkhan Vol up to 6 to put five dragons into play.
2. Do planeswalkers tap, i dont think so. someone tried to tap my ajani
3. Can I use my Elspeths ability to +1 loyalty point to give target creature 3/3 + flying until end of turn after my opponent attacks me (so basically can i give loyalty points on my opponents turn?)
4. Can you fireball or destroy target permanent to planeswalker (my gut tells me yes)
5. Can you counter planeswalkers or their abilities with swerve, or counter target spell.
6. Someone tried to return permament planeswalker to my hand what happens to the loyalty counters I have already put on it? do they die off and my ajani comes out as a 3 like normal?
four non planeswalker questions
can a creature with shroud block my creature with protection from creatures enchanment? my friend seems to think so.
Can you swerve (change target of spell) (red blue card) a creature when it comes out, i know it works with instants but can they steal my creatures to come out on their side?
If someone puts a vampire link on my creature do they gain life or me?
Someone tried to return a token creature to my hand once, i dont believe its a permanent but my friend does, i was like how am i gonna stick a penny back in my hand bro, he also thinks they go to your grave yard which i dont believe.
No. You may only play one activated ability of a Planeswalker during your turn.
Planeswalkers are permanents and can be tapped by a spell or ability as such. Since none of a planeswalker's abilities require tapping as a cost this isn't likely to make a difference in a game.
Activated abilities of planeswalkers can only be played when you could play a sorcery. So no, you can't play it during your opponent's turn.
You can play, say, Desert Twister on a planeswalker as it's a permanent.
You can't directly Fireball a planeswalker though. What you have to do is Fireball the planeswalker's controller (assuming it isn't you) and then, when Fireball resolves, you can choose to redirect the damage to the planeswalker.
You can counter the planeswalker while it's on the stack with anything that can counter a spell. Once it has entered play, you can only counter its abilities with something that specifically counters abilities such as Stifle.
When your planeswalker enters play again it is a new object with no memory of its previous existence, and will enter play with the number of loyalty counters the card indicates.
No. The creature with shroud is not being targeted by anything. Shroud doesn't let a creature ignore static abilities such as protection.
No. Creature spells do not have targets and therefore are not legal targets for Swerve.
"You" refers to the controller of Vampiric Link. The aura's controller gains the life.
All tokens are permanents, so they can be returned to hand/destroyed/etc. just like any other permanent. Immediately after a token enters any zone other than in-play, it can no longer reenter play and will cease to exist the next time state-based effects are checked.
So yes, a token can exist in a player's hand or in a graveyard for a very brief period.
2. PWs can be tapped - but that doesn't do anything.
3. No. PW abilities can only be played as sorceries.
4. PWs are permanents, and can be Vindicated. You can also redirect noncombat damage from your opponent to his PW.
5. PW spells use the stack and can be countered. Once they're in play, their activated abilities can only be countered by Stifle and friends.
6. Yes, when a PW leaves play, the loyalty counters it had on it vanish. When you play it again, it comes into play with a number of loyalty counters equal to that big number on it.
1. Shroud means "this permanent can't be the target of spells or abilities." Protection from **** means four things: "~can't be damaged by ****, can't be enchanted by ****, can't be blocked by ****, can't be targeted by ****." Shroud doesn't affect protection at all. A creature with protection from creatures is unblockable.
2. No. Creature spells don't have targets. Try something like Gather Specimens.
3. "You" on Vampiric Link refers to Link's controller, which is your opponent. He'll gain the life.
4. Tokens are permanents. They can be returned to your hand or put into a graveyard but they cease to exist when they leave play.
No. If your opponent plays Spirit Loop on your creature, he made an illegal play.
Please use card tags when you're asking a question about specific cards: [c]Serra Angel[/c] -> Serra Angel.
—Neerdiv, fallowsage
While it's correct that the wording change on Spirit Loop did not introduce a functional change as to who gains the life, it is functionally different because the new version gives an ability to the enchanted creature whereas the old version didn't. This causes functional differences with respect to effects that remove abilities or effects that care whether a creature has abilities.
For example, a Grizzly Bears enchanted with Old Spirit Loop would still get a boost by Muraganda Petroglyphs; a Grizzly Bears enchanted with New Spirit Loop won't. Similarly, Snakeforming a Grizzly Bears enchanted with New Spirit Loop will take away the lifelink ability; a Grizzly Bears enchanted with Old Spirit Loop has no ability that Snakeform could take away.
Of course, these are corner cases, and Wizards decided that the added simplicity of the new wording outweighed the importance of keeping the functionality the same.
Please use card tags when you're asking a question about specific cards: [c]Serra Angel[/c] -> Serra Angel.
In tenth edition, they tried to make the commons and uncommons less confusing for beginners. The rares could be slightly more complex.
I believe WotC has abandoned this approach, as it doesn't make much sense and just goes to confuse more people (like the people in this thread).
Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
Spirit Link does not grant the creature lifelink, Loxodon Warhammer and Spirit Loop do.
Spirit Link has the triggered ability so whoever controls Spirit Link gains the life. With lifelink, the creature has the ability so whoever controls the creature will gain the life.
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