When the deck is presented to me can i count the top 7 cards from the top and put them on the bottom or does it have to be random?
You can cut the deck in any manner you like. Whether it be taking the top X cards and putting them on the bottom, or taking the middle part of the deck and putting it on the top or the remaining portion. There is no set standard for how cuts need to be performed.
thanks, I hate cutting decks cause I have a tendency to trust people because it is a card game, and in larger tournaments you have to so i wanted an interesting way to do it. thanks again.
1: Bring a knife with you to the tournament.
2: Wait for your opponent to present the deck for cutting.
3: Cut the deck so that you cut the cards corner from corner half.
4: ?????
5: Profit!
Spam warning issued. If you don't want to give a serious answer to a serious question, then move on to the next thread. --Binary
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I thot that the bolded part is supposed to be some kind of shuffling and the opponent can cut again after you have done that, am I wrong?
If you shuffle, your opponent is allowed one final cut (which I usually take). If you just cut, your opponent doesn't get to cut.
Quote from UTR »
Cutting: One time only, removing a single portion of a deck and placing it on top of the remaining portion without looking at any of the card faces. Anything more than this one cut is considered a shuffle.
Is my opponent forced to shuffle MY deck or something? Because once I met a guy that let me shuffle my deck, then he cut it, then he shuffles again, then cut. Is that legal? I mean, doesn't all this procedure slows the whole match?
Quote from UTR »
At Competitive and Professional level events players must always shuffle their opponents’ decks at the beginning of games. The Head Judge can mandate the shuffling of opponents’ decks at Regular Level Events as long as he or she announces this at the beginning of the tournament. If a shuffling effect takes place during gameplay, players may shuffle and must cut their opponents’ decks after the shuffling effect is completed.
And yes, it can slow the match a lot. I personally abhor this, but it is accepted in general, so it's fine.
Ok, I got the point. Again, anyway, I explain the situation:
During one match, I played TEPS against this guy. I made a mind's desire of 7, and for the 6 FOLLOWING MINUTES I shuffled my deck, then he cutted, shuffled and cutted, then revealed. I mean, this can determinate a slow down of the whole game in crytic sense.
Well, ok. From the way the rule is written, technically this could happen every time you shuffle. In practice, however, I have found that typically excessively long shuffling (say, pile shuffling after every mulligan before the game) is perfectly fine (this is the part I really don't like, but is accepted by the community). Shuffling excessively for every resolution of Mind's Desire, however, is not acceptable because the deck is already shuffled after the first resolution of Mind's Desire (assuming you haven't manipulated the deck in some fashion since the first card was ripped off the top). The scenario you described sounds like slow play to me. Then again, I'm not a judge.
I've got a question. I hate rifle shuffling. I mean, I like my cards to be in as pristine shape as they can be, so I don't riffle shuffle even when my cards are in sleeves. I realize an opponent has the option to shuffle my cards, but can I request that they either pile shuffle or overhand shuffle?
I've got a question. I hate rifle shuffling. I mean, I like my cards to be in as pristine shape as they can be, so I don't riffle shuffle even when my cards are in sleeves. I realize an opponent has the option to shuffle my cards, but can I request that they either pile shuffle or overhand shuffle?
You can - but he doesn't have to listen to you. If you have concerns about aggressive shuffling damaging your cards, you should ask a judge if he'll require your opponents to shuffle more gently, or, at smaller events where it's possible, shuffle for your opponent (do not expect the judge to do this, though. It will rarely happen.).
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO "I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
I guess in practical terms, your opponent can shuffle your deck in any "accepted" method, of which riffle shuffling is one of them. Your opponent could not shuffle your deck by, say, dropping it on the floor, using his feet to move the cards around, and then picking the deck up.
That's insane. In vintage decks can easily be worth upward of $2000. Why is riffle shuffling considered accepted? There are multiple other ways of achieving (roughly) the same effect. Why allow damage to someones cards?
That's insane. In vintage decks can easily be worth upward of $2000. Why is riffle shuffling considered accepted? There are multiple other ways of achieving (roughly) the same effect. Why allow damage to someones cards?
I've gotten into trouble on this forum in the past for advocating too much for prohibiting riffle shuffling of Vintage decks, so I'll just summarize the rule.
Basically, riffle shuffling, in spite of the damage it can do to a vintage deck is acceptable, period. That doesn't mean that it is morally acceptable though (and when my opponents have gone to riffle shuffle my deck, I have said something. Interestingly, they stopped riffle shuffling upon request). In my opinion it is damaging someone else's property, but the DCI does not see it that way. Consequently, it is allowed. There really isn't much else to say.
Perhaps it's because pile shuffling is an absolutely horrid way to randomize your cards? Consider that it takes 1-2 minutes to do the same thing that a riffle shuffle does in 1-2 seconds, and you can easily see why Wizards and Tournament Organizers don't want to ban people from riffle shuffling.
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
Basically, riffle shuffling, in spite of the damage it can do to a vintage deck is acceptable, period. That doesn't mean that it is morally acceptable though (and when my opponents have gone to riffle shuffle my deck, I have said something. Interestingly, they stopped riffle shuffling upon request). In my opinion it is damaging someone else's property, but the DCI does not see it that way. Consequently, it is allowed. There really isn't much else to say.
The DCI's interest is in the integrity of the event, and one of those ways is that players are expected to present a "sufficiently randomized" deck. How the players do that is up to them, and there is no specifically recommended method or specifically prohibited method regarding shuffling. Simply put, there can't be any mandate either way, as "sufficiently randomized" can be accomplished in any number of ways. There are things that definitely don't accomplish this (such as a single cut, or a single pile shuffle), but other methods in combination can do this. And really, the DCI only cares about the end result and how the process might affect that.
That being said, I completely agree with Eli. If there are ways to accomplish "sufficient randomization" with recognizing that the cards should not receive excessive wear or damage, then I would encourage people to pursue it. But wear can't be completely avoided, as that happens just through playing the game.
Thanks guys. I've never had anyone not heed my request, but I assume there will be a first time for everything...as some people are just jacka**es.
I once had a guy riffle shuffle my foiled angelfire deck from standard last season... I called a judge after he refused to shuffle any other way and riffled more aggressively, and he got an unsportsmanlike since he was obviously being a jerk.
If the guy riffle shuffles and you ask him not to, at least where I am, you can ask a judge to shuffle for you (I actually had to do that for this guy). There is no reason why someone should be allowed to damage your cards when he clearly could do it some other way.
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Greedy Artists make me sick.
I propose that anyone offended by their commentary about Richie ("Good riddance that he is dead", ect.) NEVER credit these artists on custom cards where their art is used.
My cards will all have ComboFTW as the artist from now on.
How would you have someone shuffle your deck, other than a riffle shuffle? If they're purposely doing it extra-aggresive, that's one thing, but there is nothing wrong with riffle shuffling.
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overhead/slide, weaving, pile, or my favorite, the hindu shuffle. There are plenty of non-damaging ways to 'sufficiently randomize' a deck that don't damage the cards.
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Greedy Artists make me sick.
I propose that anyone offended by their commentary about Richie ("Good riddance that he is dead", ect.) NEVER credit these artists on custom cards where their art is used.
My cards will all have ComboFTW as the artist from now on.
That's my main point. A weave shuffle* is nearly indistinguishable from a riffle shuffle, and does no damage to the cards when they're in plastics.
If my opponent absolutely insists on shuffling my deck with a riffle shuffle in a tourny, do I have no recourse?
*(For those who don't know, take a deck in ultra-pro or similiar plastics, cut it in half, loosely hold the piles and gently push the bottom ends together. They weave together pretty randomly into sets of 1-3 piles of cards.)
That's my main point. A weave shuffle* is nearly indistinguishable from a riffle shuffle, and does no damage to the cards when they're in plastics.
If my opponent absolutely insists on shuffling my deck with a riffle shuffle in a tourny, do I have no recourse?
*(For those who don't know, take a deck in ultra-pro or similiar plastics, cut it in half, loosely hold the piles and gently push the bottom ends together. They weave together pretty randomly into sets of 1-3 piles of cards.)
Short of what Woap mentioned earlier (or dropping from the event), you have no recourse.
You can cut the deck in any manner you like. Whether it be taking the top X cards and putting them on the bottom, or taking the middle part of the deck and putting it on the top or the remaining portion. There is no set standard for how cuts need to be performed.
2: Wait for your opponent to present the deck for cutting.
3: Cut the deck so that you cut the cards corner from corner half.
4: ?????
5: Profit!
Spam warning issued. If you don't want to give a serious answer to a serious question, then move on to the next thread. --Binary
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
If you shuffle, your opponent is allowed one final cut (which I usually take). If you just cut, your opponent doesn't get to cut.
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And yes, it can slow the match a lot. I personally abhor this, but it is accepted in general, so it's fine.
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Well, ok. From the way the rule is written, technically this could happen every time you shuffle. In practice, however, I have found that typically excessively long shuffling (say, pile shuffling after every mulligan before the game) is perfectly fine (this is the part I really don't like, but is accepted by the community). Shuffling excessively for every resolution of Mind's Desire, however, is not acceptable because the deck is already shuffled after the first resolution of Mind's Desire (assuming you haven't manipulated the deck in some fashion since the first card was ripped off the top). The scenario you described sounds like slow play to me. Then again, I'm not a judge.
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You can - but he doesn't have to listen to you. If you have concerns about aggressive shuffling damaging your cards, you should ask a judge if he'll require your opponents to shuffle more gently, or, at smaller events where it's possible, shuffle for your opponent (do not expect the judge to do this, though. It will rarely happen.).
"Sufficiently advanced experience is indistinguishable from clairvoyance." -Carsten
"Ah those eyes, those horrible creepy eyes!" -Chaosof99
DCI Level 3 Judge & TO
"I do not consider myself a hero. I know only what the Vec teach:
justice must always be served and corruption must always be opposed."
Go read! I am one of the three authors of Cranial Insertion.
But seriously, if you can't remember "Woapalanne", just call me Eli.
Magic Rules Advisor
How Creatures Die
Targets | Triggered Abilities | Priority and the Stack | Older Articles
I've gotten into trouble on this forum in the past for advocating too much for prohibiting riffle shuffling of Vintage decks, so I'll just summarize the rule.
Basically, riffle shuffling, in spite of the damage it can do to a vintage deck is acceptable, period. That doesn't mean that it is morally acceptable though (and when my opponents have gone to riffle shuffle my deck, I have said something. Interestingly, they stopped riffle shuffling upon request). In my opinion it is damaging someone else's property, but the DCI does not see it that way. Consequently, it is allowed. There really isn't much else to say.
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Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
The DCI's interest is in the integrity of the event, and one of those ways is that players are expected to present a "sufficiently randomized" deck. How the players do that is up to them, and there is no specifically recommended method or specifically prohibited method regarding shuffling. Simply put, there can't be any mandate either way, as "sufficiently randomized" can be accomplished in any number of ways. There are things that definitely don't accomplish this (such as a single cut, or a single pile shuffle), but other methods in combination can do this. And really, the DCI only cares about the end result and how the process might affect that.
That being said, I completely agree with Eli. If there are ways to accomplish "sufficient randomization" with recognizing that the cards should not receive excessive wear or damage, then I would encourage people to pursue it. But wear can't be completely avoided, as that happens just through playing the game.
I once had a guy riffle shuffle my foiled angelfire deck from standard last season... I called a judge after he refused to shuffle any other way and riffled more aggressively, and he got an unsportsmanlike since he was obviously being a jerk.
If the guy riffle shuffles and you ask him not to, at least where I am, you can ask a judge to shuffle for you (I actually had to do that for this guy). There is no reason why someone should be allowed to damage your cards when he clearly could do it some other way.
I propose that anyone offended by their commentary about Richie ("Good riddance that he is dead", ect.) NEVER credit these artists on custom cards where their art is used.
My cards will all have ComboFTW as the artist from now on.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
I propose that anyone offended by their commentary about Richie ("Good riddance that he is dead", ect.) NEVER credit these artists on custom cards where their art is used.
My cards will all have ComboFTW as the artist from now on.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
If my opponent absolutely insists on shuffling my deck with a riffle shuffle in a tourny, do I have no recourse?
*(For those who don't know, take a deck in ultra-pro or similiar plastics, cut it in half, loosely hold the piles and gently push the bottom ends together. They weave together pretty randomly into sets of 1-3 piles of cards.)
Short of what Woap mentioned earlier (or dropping from the event), you have no recourse.
Magic Rules Advisor
How Creatures Die
Targets | Triggered Abilities | Priority and the Stack | Older Articles