On the topic of werewolves, can someone explain the rationale for the transformation trigger? What the hell does not playing spells and playing two spell have to do with regards to night and day?
They picked these triggers because they worked out well when playing with them, and they kind or make flavor sense. Night falls when everything's quiet, day breaks when things get busy again. They didn't use a more flavorful trigger because the ones they tried didn't have as good of gameplay.
Eh, I really don't like the new Liliana.... The first ability also hurts you, which probably isn't a problem if there are things like Dredge or Madness in this set... well, at least we have Flashback. The second ability feels too expensive. Sure, she starts of at 3cc, but come on.... Only the last ability is interesting, except that the fact that your opponent is the one doing the choosing is a problem. Nice ultimate nevertheless.
Fiend Hunter is ok, just another blinker in the block.
The Kruin Werewolf looks pretty fun. The condition to flip back into a weakling human is pretty easy, as with other werewolves, but if you can force your opponent to discard cards and thus have nothing to cast, he'll be doomed. Of course, we have Flashback to worry about...
On the topic of werewolves, can someone explain the rationale for the transformation trigger? What the hell does not playing spells and playing two spell have to do with regards to night and day?
Stuff happens during the day. (Two spells makes it day.)
Very little hustle and bustle happens at night. (No spells makes it night.)
Would Liliana Being and Edict on a stick be a good target for Sun Titan in some sort of W/B Deadguy Ale deck? I mean we do get a W/B dual land in this set. Definitely can see some synergy with those two there. Maybe an Esper build might work if we need some blue control elements.
remember when they said tezzert2.0 was good. then remember when NPH was released and they said tezz was gonna be good. then remember when they said 'we have a whole other block'? just like tezz, liliana2.0 will see her place in a trade binder all day unless the rest of this set/block makes you want to discard on turn 3
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MTG is a hobby, cant afford it? GTFO! Don't complain about prices.
Liliana seems extremely powerful to me. Yes, the discard is symmetrical, but as people noted, there are ways to break the symmetry. Or it could backfire. Either way, if you ignore shenanigans with it, it cuts down cards on both sides of the table. And her edict definitely is strong if she comes down on turn 3. Once resources are exhausted from her +1, she will remain on the table as a force that continues to dominate the game. As long as her +1 is card parity, I'm just happy we are both losing resources, because my resource (Liliana) doesn't run out. It's like getting an extra card every turn.
I'm just expecting her to run into a lot of early mana leaks.
On the topic of werewolves, can someone explain the rationale for the transformation trigger? What the hell does not playing spells and playing two spell have to do with regards to night and day?
The reasoning was, if I remember correctly, was that werewolves only show when there are few human activities, therefore the zero casting. And are in human form when there are a lot, two or more castin.
Does nobody seriously see how strong Liliana is? Remember what made Jace so broken? It was the repeatable unsummon. It made players lose tempo if they tapped out to play a creature. She obviously isn't quite strong as Jace, but when you print repeatable removal on a planeswalker... come on. Now all creatures will have to pass the Liliana test. So much for a fun format.
Jace bounce was a -1. He could do it 3 times before he would die. Liliana can only do it once before having to do her +1. Overall very disappointed with her unless we get Madness.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
I love coming here when a new card is revealed. The majority of you are so bad at card evaluation it is hilarious.
Liliana is a continuous source of hand disruption, non-targeted creature removal, and potential for a blow-out of an opponents board. Here's a hint guys: when a card has a low cost and has three "okay" abilities that give you versatility and a choice in which to use that means the card is excellent.
I mean no disrespect - and I think that is the silliest thing to be quoting people in most circumstances, but, if you don't mind, I would like to use your post to sort of "accent" a thing that players looking at Lilliana should really keep in mind. That thing being: it behooves you (third-person, "you", addressed to said players) to remember that a graveyard block is a graveyard block. That dictates that a good many of the viable deck choices will exploit their own graveyard. In turn, we can safely assume that Lilliana's +1 to be too dangerous too often a play in the new Standard. At this point, one can just take for granted that Lilliana is just a 2-ability 'Walker.
remember when they said tezzert2.0 was good. then remember when NPH was released and they said tezz was gonna be good. then remember when they said 'we have a whole other block'? just like tezz, liliana2.0 will see her place in a trade binder all day unless the rest of this set/block makes you want to discard on turn 3
Lili is decent, wasnt expecting 3,
and for a 3 mana walker, she can't do everything
jace was a utilitarian card draw that almost never got to the mill 20
but served the right purpose in the right decks.
Lili does well, and her sac ability is the key to her being useful.
David rapoza kicks it out of the park with the werewolf,
and I think RG builds with it, the bloodthirst beserker,
and other werewolves, would be cool
Fiend hunter is almost guaranteed to show up in my Venser build now
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remember when they said tezzert2.0 was good. then remember when NPH was released and they said tezz was gonna be good. then remember when they said 'we have a whole other block'? just like tezz, liliana2.0 will see her place in a trade binder all day unless the rest of this set/block makes you want to discard on turn 3
He's still at like 25 bucks two sets later. I think we've settled on the fact he's good.
Aaaaaand Nath'd again.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Remember what made Jace so broken? It was the repeatable unsummon.
I am quiiiite sure a lot of people would disagree with you, and assert that Jace's best ability was the repeatable emulating of one of the best instants ever printed at no loyalty cost.
The thing I like about Fiend Hunter is its synergy with the other white weenies we've gotten already.
Turn 1: Plains
Turn 2: Plains Elite Inquisitor
Turn 3: Plains Mentor of the Meek
Turn 4: Possible Plains then Fiend Hunter (getting rid of any big creature they play) and pay a mana to draw a card.
Awesome.
Liliana of the Veil... she's gonna be interesting to work with however, she will definitely see play. For example we already have a great target for her to sac, Dearly Departed. If you have this 4WW guy in your graveyard each human you summon gets stronger when they come into play. Just play with a Black/White deck and getting this spirit in the graveyard will be easy.
As for the werewolf, gotta say I'm looking forward to it. It's relatively easy to cast and gives you some serious damage potential.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
remember when they said tezzert2.0 was good. then remember when NPH was released and they said tezz was gonna be good. then remember when they said 'we have a whole other block'? just like tezz, liliana2.0 will see her place in a trade binder all day unless the rest of this set/block makes you want to discard on turn 3
The point here is that you are forcing your opponent to discard as well. Yes you are discarding down yourself, but you are being strategic and intelligent about it. And she is also early game discard and cheap at that. 3 mana is a wonderful mana cost to be for a walker. We should expect that Liliana will be played alongside Sun Titan at some point. Depending on how good the pinpoint discard is in this set Sun Titan and Lily will be best buddies. Comparing her to Tezzeret is pretty.....bad. Tezzeret forces you to play a specific type of deck in specific colors. Liliana isn't narrow like Tezzeret. She can hold her own. And honestly if she gets oblivion ringed or beast withined then it shouldn't matter much. They spent just as much as you did to get rid of your walker after you got at least one effect off. How often do people cry over 3 mana jace getting killed off? Not too often. Expendable card advantage planeswalker is expendable.
Jace bounce was a -1. He could do it 3 times before he would die. Liliana can only do it once before having to do her +1. Overall very disappointed with her unless we get Madness.
Crap, you're right, she's not as good as one of the single most overpowered cards ever printed. Unplayable!
They picked these triggers because they worked out well when playing with them, and they kind or make flavor sense. Night falls when everything's quiet, day breaks when things get busy again. They didn't use a more flavorful trigger because the ones they tried didn't have as good of gameplay.
the problem with that though, is that the trigger happens during upkeep, but references the last turns activity. So if my werewolf is in "day" mode, when I don't play any spells, it transforms on your upkeep to "night". But if you play two spells while on your turn, it becomes "day" again on my turn. See what I'm saying? Its just weird.
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I can see it having a home in a black and red/green werewolf deck.
I like it (and the new red transformer)
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
They picked these triggers because they worked out well when playing with them, and they kind or make flavor sense. Night falls when everything's quiet, day breaks when things get busy again. They didn't use a more flavorful trigger because the ones they tried didn't have as good of gameplay.
R Citizen Cane (Feldon of the Third Path)
Fiend Hunter is ok, just another blinker in the block.
The Kruin Werewolf looks pretty fun. The condition to flip back into a weakling human is pretty easy, as with other werewolves, but if you can force your opponent to discard cards and thus have nothing to cast, he'll be doomed. Of course, we have Flashback to worry about...
No idea, but I just don't see the flavor behind no spells and two spells.
Stuff happens during the day. (Two spells makes it day.)
Very little hustle and bustle happens at night. (No spells makes it night.)
That's the flavor of the werewolf trigger.
Damn I was nath'd.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
I'm just expecting her to run into a lot of early mana leaks.
Karador EDH
Comments on decks welcome: http://tappedout.net/users/AradonTemplar/
Currently developing Set 1 of 3, 'Shadow': http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=436885
The new wolf is really powerful. Still seems a little slow, but we will see.
Liliana looks amazing. What is wrong with you people. This WILL see play. In top tier decks.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
The reasoning was, if I remember correctly, was that werewolves only show when there are few human activities, therefore the zero casting. And are in human form when there are a lot, two or more castin.
Jace bounce was a -1. He could do it 3 times before he would die. Liliana can only do it once before having to do her +1. Overall very disappointed with her unless we get Madness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
I mean no disrespect - and I think that is the silliest thing to be quoting people in most circumstances, but, if you don't mind, I would like to use your post to sort of "accent" a thing that players looking at Lilliana should really keep in mind. That thing being: it behooves you (third-person, "you", addressed to said players) to remember that a graveyard block is a graveyard block. That dictates that a good many of the viable deck choices will exploit their own graveyard. In turn, we can safely assume that Lilliana's +1 to be too dangerous too often a play in the new Standard. At this point, one can just take for granted that Lilliana is just a 2-ability 'Walker.
Fiend Hunter is exactly what I needed for pod at the right cost.
tezzeret 2 IS really good though :/
and for a 3 mana walker, she can't do everything
jace was a utilitarian card draw that almost never got to the mill 20
but served the right purpose in the right decks.
Lili does well, and her sac ability is the key to her being useful.
David rapoza kicks it out of the park with the werewolf,
and I think RG builds with it, the bloodthirst beserker,
and other werewolves, would be cool
Fiend hunter is almost guaranteed to show up in my Venser build now
Avid teacher of Magic to new players.
Flavor enthusiast, Storyteller, and Illustrator
Red Blue aligned Mage
I play limited, casual modern, and keep several standard decks on hand.
In process of writing articles about MTG as a subculture delving into it from a sociological standpoint. If you know of a mtg site looking for a column like that, please private message me. Thanks
He's still at like 25 bucks two sets later. I think we've settled on the fact he's good.
Aaaaaand Nath'd again.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
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ricklongo and RicardoLongo on MTGO
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Turn 1: Plains
Turn 2: Plains Elite Inquisitor
Turn 3: Plains Mentor of the Meek
Turn 4: Possible Plains then Fiend Hunter (getting rid of any big creature they play) and pay a mana to draw a card.
Awesome.
Liliana of the Veil... she's gonna be interesting to work with however, she will definitely see play. For example we already have a great target for her to sac, Dearly Departed. If you have this 4WW guy in your graveyard each human you summon gets stronger when they come into play. Just play with a Black/White deck and getting this spirit in the graveyard will be easy.
As for the werewolf, gotta say I'm looking forward to it. It's relatively easy to cast and gives you some serious damage potential.
time counters would have been decent. easily grokkable, simple for a player to keep track of.
The point here is that you are forcing your opponent to discard as well. Yes you are discarding down yourself, but you are being strategic and intelligent about it. And she is also early game discard and cheap at that. 3 mana is a wonderful mana cost to be for a walker. We should expect that Liliana will be played alongside Sun Titan at some point. Depending on how good the pinpoint discard is in this set Sun Titan and Lily will be best buddies. Comparing her to Tezzeret is pretty.....bad. Tezzeret forces you to play a specific type of deck in specific colors. Liliana isn't narrow like Tezzeret. She can hold her own. And honestly if she gets oblivion ringed or beast withined then it shouldn't matter much. They spent just as much as you did to get rid of your walker after you got at least one effect off. How often do people cry over 3 mana jace getting killed off? Not too often. Expendable card advantage planeswalker is expendable.
spells = day/busy
Crap, you're right, she's not as good as one of the single most overpowered cards ever printed. Unplayable!
the problem with that though, is that the trigger happens during upkeep, but references the last turns activity. So if my werewolf is in "day" mode, when I don't play any spells, it transforms on your upkeep to "night". But if you play two spells while on your turn, it becomes "day" again on my turn. See what I'm saying? Its just weird.