lol
Who says that this counter is a decent counterspell isn't a control player. This counter it's just horrible on turn 2 and will never see play.
Daze >>>>> This counterspell
C'mon how you can think to play this card on turn 2?
It's so difficult print a counter like this:
:xmana::symu:
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays
Boh I'm gonna waiting Wizards.....
Pretty sure that blue doesn't need any help in any format that Daze is still legal in...
Anyways, looks decent but not great. I'd bet that it still sees plenty of play in standard simply due to the current other options available.
Meh, I'm not sure whether I like this or not. As has already been stated early land drops are very important for control right now and being forced to skip one is not appealing but the ability to have another card that hard counters any spell might be worth it. I will definitely be testing with this card to see how it performs.
Not for a control deck. If there is ever going to be a blue base aggro deck then this is so-so in that deck. I rather play cancel in a control deck than this. The current standard does not really need a good 2cc counter. A 3 cc is fine but it needs to do more than just counter. A 1 for 1 counter just does not cut it anymore when mid-range decks are now able to get 2 for 1 plus tempo in a single card. (Bloodbraid!, Maelstrom Pulse!, Sprouting!..Yes Jund)
It is a massive tempo loss just the same. Losing a land drop = HUGE.
You don't lose the card, but you lose tempo just the same. It is one of the reasons people miss (or hate) Boomerang.
So you're comparing an aggro deck to a control deck?
The few people that play Borderposts play them because they don't impair your mana development.
It isn't that crippling against WU because by turn 4 WU already has five mana or so, which is a good base to stabilize, but no WU player wants to let a Ruinblaster resolve because mana is good.
I agree it is a massive tempo loss and I am not suggesting using it on turn 2 on some piddly creature. But countering eldrazi monument, garruk, cruel ultimatum and perhaps a turn 2 leech (which is the only thing I would consider countering with this on turn 2) it is worth the tempo loss in many cases.
Obviously people don't play borderposts cause they don't impare your mana. They play them cause they help your mana DESPITE returing a land to your hand.
And in the forums it has been mentioned several times that you can return a halimar depths for the library manipulation. Against dread say you could return a bog and remove their library again. I am not saying this is a big upside or always an upside. I am saying that MAYBE 10% (in the right decks) of the time it COULD be an upside.
if someone played ruinblaster and then used this to counter...couldnt you return the land that was about the be destroyed? and counter ruinblaster? i was under the impression that even if you counter ruinblaster the land still gets dead
Maybe, just maybe, this card wasn't designed for blue control decks, but for blue midrange and aggro decks.
Maybe Blue doesn't always have to be control.
I could be crazy though... who knows. This card isn't bad just because you might not play it in control (though... still why wouldn't you - just realizing is a synergistic better cancel rather than a t2 counter....)
if someone played ruinblaster and then used this to counter...couldnt you return the land that was about the be destroyed? and counter ruinblaster? i was under the impression that even if you counter ruinblaster the land still gets dead
Doesn't work. It won't target a land until it comes into play:
"When Goblin Ruinblaster enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, destroy target nonbasic land."
Maybe, just maybe, this card wasn't designed for blue control decks, but for blue midrange and aggro decks.
Maybe Blue doesn't always have to be control.
I could be crazy though... who knows. This card isn't bad just because you might not play it in control (though... still why wouldn't you - just realizing is a synergistic better cancel rather than a t2 counter....)
Well right now I wish blue was something, anything,.
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Modern (I collect the format):
WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron WDeath and Taxes WSoul Sisters RWG Pod Combo URSplinter Twin URStorm RBurn
Doesn't work. It won't target a land until it comes into play:
"When Goblin Ruinblaster enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, destroy target nonbasic land."
ah thank you. was under a mistaken impression. well i LIKE this as it gives a person who wants to play blue control options. i quite realize that it may not be the best but it takes forethought and skill to use, which is something blue is known for no?
if someone played ruinblaster and then used this to counter...couldnt you return the land that was about the be destroyed? and counter ruinblaster? i was under the impression that even if you counter ruinblaster the land still gets dead
If they BBE into ruinblaster kicked, you could counter the BBE with this and (assuming you only had 1 non-basic), bounce that, forcing Jund to destroy one of it's own lands.
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Odds of pulling a JtMS from a WWK pack: 1:80
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
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I don't think this card (Deprive) was ever printed to "help" Control Decks. Rather, I think it was printed as an answer to some combo in the set.
What I mean is that its role in a deck is not help that deck survive the early turns, but rather it acts as a cheap blue answer to some dangerous combo that might pop up in the set.
Counter target spell. Put a card from your hand on top of your library.
Would either have to have a beastly hand or be able to draw through that card. Blue getting set back a turn on card draw is rough.
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Odds of pulling a JtMS from a WWK pack: 1:80
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
If they BBE into ruinblaster kicked, you could counter the BBE with this and (assuming you only had 1 non-basic), bounce that, forcing Jund to destroy one of it's own lands.
ah this is the reason i read forums! i didnt think of that. glad to see my thought wasnt completely mistaken
This looks like a card which helps you get destroyed by Ruinblaster in games 2 and 3. I cant think of a time when i would ever want to cast this before turn 6 in standard.
I think you are overreacting.
Though the drawback might seem harsh, it's a solid hard counterspell that puts threats in the yard.
We cant forget that control has more elements besides pure counterspells, like board sweepers, card drawing, and bounce. If you combine all these, and use your tempo wisely, i think this card would be a good addition to control decks.
Note: Not all control decks want to play this. I cant see Grixis playing this, but UW...yes please.
Besides T2, extended and legacy dont need this, unless someone find a good interaction with a CIP badass land.This is also true for EDH...Vesuva ?
or you can play something, if it's getting countered you can float all the mana from your Tolarian Academy return it back to you hand, replay it and add more mana...:D
I don't how much life you would have to pay to make UU counter target spell fair. What about U counter target spell? How much life is fair for a 1 mana hard counter?
SOMEONE has to say it, and I guess, it has to be me again...
But first, for the record: Deprive, as spoiled here, is not a bad card. It will definitely see play in Standard. However, it is not the basic utility spell which Blue needs. It compares to Counterspell roughly the same way Shard Volley compares to Lightning Bolt (Cancel, BTW, would be the equivalent to Rift Bolt without the suspend option). It is underpowered, yet useful, and there are ways to exploit its disadvantage to one's advantage.
Now, to the important topic: THERE IS NO SUCH PROFILE AS A "BLUE PLAYER". There is just a minority of players who have a deeper understanding of this game's strategy and wish its balance to be restored, and there is a majority of players who lack the skill to beat reactive decks and thus completely overestimate the power of countermagic. It is this majority who is whining (and has been for years), and Wizards are catering to them BECAUSE THEY ARE THE MAJORITY, not because they are right (they even conceded this fact a few weeks ago on magicthegathering.com, albeit in euphemistic terms).
The players who wish for Counterspell to return are NOT "blue players", at least not in any other sense than not being "non-blue-players". They are MAGIC players, and they care for this game's overall balance.
Counterspells haven't been overpowered compared to other colors' best spells since the days of Mana Drain. Blue decks have never been as dominant as the majority of players perceived them to be; they just possess the inherent quality to give their pilots a more pronounced advantage against clearly inferior decks and players. (That is because they maximize interaction, and thus maximize the opportunity for bad plays on both sides of the table.) The greatest strength of Blue lay never in its counterspells, but in its card drawing. However, it needs the basic utility of counters to function. That's its part of the color pie. That's why it dosn't get removal, efficient weenies or direct damage. Without good countermagic, Blue cannot compete with the other colors.
Everyone who talks about "blue players" whining is nothing more than a troll, because there is no group of "blue players", and it's the "non-blue players" who do the whining.
Very, very well said. I think the reason why some of the better players (and do not take this as an "all the good players" comment) enjoy control is due to forcing player interaction. It forces both players to know how to bluff and bait. When they need to wait and when they need to risk it.
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Odds of pulling a JtMS from a WWK pack: 1:80
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
Very, very well said. I think the reason why some of the better players (and do not take this as an "all the good players" comment) enjoy control is due to forcing player interaction. It forces both players to know how to bluff and bait. When they need to wait and when they need to risk it.
Indeed. To this day I still don't know when is the correct time to play a spell against a draw-go deck. It seems they always have a counterspell in hand, and I can understand it's frustrating for a new player.
I think that Deprive should mainly be used to protect your finisher/prevent your opponent from finishing you off.
Very, very well said. I think the reason why some of the better players (and do not take this as an "all the good players" comment) enjoy control is due to forcing player interaction. It forces both players to know how to bluff and bait. When they need to wait and when they need to risk it.
Yeah...i miss that part of Magic...when you are playing the control deck, and have one counterspell ready for the perfect threat. And if you get the timming right, the feeling is priceless.
Sam as when you are on the other end, try to catch offguard the control player to stick you threats.
Bluffing is not for the one that is playing the counterspells...you bluff your baits too.
I think now days we are living the Chandra Nalaar rule..."When in doubt release you biggest bomb" or was it Jaya Ballar?
People are complaining about this? Seriously, this is the closest to Couterspell we're going to get for some time. Remand was close, but in late game, this is far better. So you have to return a land? If playing control and you've got 7 islands out who cares! THAT is when this spell will matter. Sure it sucks early game, but then run Dispel or Cancel.
I would greatly prefer remand right now, the late game is not where control has it's issues, usually if I can make it to turn 7-8 I have the game locked up in u/w. It is the early game that is the issue which is why I am not sure that this card is worth it.
Sometimes though one can be under the distinct impression that some players just want decks to be draw-go. I think that is just unhealthy. I have played against enough draw-go to know that it is extremely frustrating, and one can even say that it is dumber than tap, attack...
I don't how much life you would have to pay to make UU counter target spell fair. What about U counter target spell? How much life What drawback is fair for a 1 mana hard counter?
Any thoughts anyone?
One Blue Permanent. This or Hesitation and Force Spike, inT2, and I'd be so happy.
I think there is something of a favourable comparison that can be made to daze here. Granted in the formats daze is legal in your control decks are much less mana intensive, but I stil see something potentially good here.
Returning uncracked fetches is always going to be pretty acceptable, since you can usually just sit on them indefinitely.
Indeed. To this day I still don't know when is the correct time to play a spell against a draw-go deck. It seems they always have a counterspell in hand, and I can understand it's frustrating for a new player.
I think that Deprive should mainly be used to protect your finisher/prevent your opponent from finishing you off.
When you think you can bluff enough to get out your real threats.
One of the funnest match ups I have at my LGS is extended teachings vs thopter-teachings (I play the thopter version, and often, the combo gets sided out game 2 or 3). Outside of Espercharm to draw, almost nothing gets played before turn 8 or so, when we have mana to counter backup. It's rough watching the other player cast teachings and the other having an extripate ready. The games usually take forever, but we can both usually look back to (excluding terrible draws or mana problems) one point in the game, when something got baited or something was misplayed as to the begining of the end. Watching your deck slowly fall apart due to that one misplay. Those are some of the few games where I leave it feeling like I was truely tested as a player and I spent a good deal of time thinking.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Odds of pulling a JtMS from a WWK pack: 1:80
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
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Pretty sure that blue doesn't need any help in any format that Daze is still legal in...
Anyways, looks decent but not great. I'd bet that it still sees plenty of play in standard simply due to the current other options available.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=4875480#post4875480
I agree it is a massive tempo loss and I am not suggesting using it on turn 2 on some piddly creature. But countering eldrazi monument, garruk, cruel ultimatum and perhaps a turn 2 leech (which is the only thing I would consider countering with this on turn 2) it is worth the tempo loss in many cases.
Obviously people don't play borderposts cause they don't impare your mana. They play them cause they help your mana DESPITE returing a land to your hand.
And in the forums it has been mentioned several times that you can return a halimar depths for the library manipulation. Against dread say you could return a bog and remove their library again. I am not saying this is a big upside or always an upside. I am saying that MAYBE 10% (in the right decks) of the time it COULD be an upside.
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Maybe Blue doesn't always have to be control.
I could be crazy though... who knows. This card isn't bad just because you might not play it in control (though... still why wouldn't you - just realizing is a synergistic better cancel rather than a t2 counter....)
I'd love input and advice!
Doesn't work. It won't target a land until it comes into play:
"When Goblin Ruinblaster enters the battlefield, if it was kicked, destroy target nonbasic land."
Don't Trust Your Secrets To The Sea...
0The 4th Haiku contest has begun! Enter to win a playset of Japanese Bonehoards0
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WURDelver
[/MANA]MANA]R[/MANA]GTron
WDeath and Taxes
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URStorm
RBurn
ah thank you. was under a mistaken impression. well i LIKE this as it gives a person who wants to play blue control options. i quite realize that it may not be the best but it takes forethought and skill to use, which is something blue is known for no?
If they BBE into ruinblaster kicked, you could counter the BBE with this and (assuming you only had 1 non-basic), bounce that, forcing Jund to destroy one of it's own lands.
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
How about:
Counter target spell. Put a card from your hand on top of your library.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
What I mean is that its role in a deck is not help that deck survive the early turns, but rather it acts as a cheap blue answer to some dangerous combo that might pop up in the set.
Would either have to have a beastly hand or be able to draw through that card. Blue getting set back a turn on card draw is rough.
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
ah this is the reason i read forums! i didnt think of that. glad to see my thought wasnt completely mistaken
I think you are overreacting.
Though the drawback might seem harsh, it's a solid hard counterspell that puts threats in the yard.
We cant forget that control has more elements besides pure counterspells, like board sweepers, card drawing, and bounce. If you combine all these, and use your tempo wisely, i think this card would be a good addition to control decks.
Note: Not all control decks want to play this. I cant see Grixis playing this, but UW...yes please.
Besides T2, extended and legacy dont need this, unless someone find a good interaction with a CIP badass land.This is also true for EDH...Vesuva ?
or you can play something, if it's getting countered you can float all the mana from your Tolarian Academy return it back to you hand, replay it and add more mana...:D
Anyways, i like it.
I just noticed this. I really like the idea.
I don't how much life you would have to pay to make UU counter target spell fair. What about U counter target spell? How much life is fair for a 1 mana hard counter?
Any thoughts anyone?
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RUB
Very, very well said. I think the reason why some of the better players (and do not take this as an "all the good players" comment) enjoy control is due to forcing player interaction. It forces both players to know how to bluff and bait. When they need to wait and when they need to risk it.
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.
Indeed. To this day I still don't know when is the correct time to play a spell against a draw-go deck. It seems they always have a counterspell in hand, and I can understand it's frustrating for a new player.
I think that Deprive should mainly be used to protect your finisher/prevent your opponent from finishing you off.
Yeah...i miss that part of Magic...when you are playing the control deck, and have one counterspell ready for the perfect threat. And if you get the timming right, the feeling is priceless.
Sam as when you are on the other end, try to catch offguard the control player to stick you threats.
Bluffing is not for the one that is playing the counterspells...you bluff your baits too.
I think now days we are living the Chandra Nalaar rule..."When in doubt release you biggest bomb" or was it Jaya Ballar?
I would greatly prefer remand right now, the late game is not where control has it's issues, usually if I can make it to turn 7-8 I have the game locked up in u/w. It is the early game that is the issue which is why I am not sure that this card is worth it.
Currently playing:
T2
BW Aggro-Midrange BW
100+ cards spoiled so far. Not a single good blue one. Plenty of good and awesome in other colors. Where's balance?
Seriously, in the current standard with so few playable blue cards a reprint of the real Counterspell would not wrap the format over.
One Blue Permanent. This or Hesitation and Force Spike, inT2, and I'd be so happy.
Returning uncracked fetches is always going to be pretty acceptable, since you can usually just sit on them indefinitely.
When you think you can bluff enough to get out your real threats.
One of the funnest match ups I have at my LGS is extended teachings vs thopter-teachings (I play the thopter version, and often, the combo gets sided out game 2 or 3). Outside of Espercharm to draw, almost nothing gets played before turn 8 or so, when we have mana to counter backup. It's rough watching the other player cast teachings and the other having an extripate ready. The games usually take forever, but we can both usually look back to (excluding terrible draws or mana problems) one point in the game, when something got baited or something was misplayed as to the begining of the end. Watching your deck slowly fall apart due to that one misplay. Those are some of the few games where I leave it feeling like I was truely tested as a player and I spent a good deal of time thinking.
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
Want to support a LGS that finally branched into the selling online world? Send me a pm with your email for a $5 off coupon (usable on purchases of $10 or more) for a LGS that just recently got onto TCG player.