It's a start. I'd rather the drawback be slightly less severe in the early game - maybe instead of bouncing a land you discard a card or lose some life or something... But really, seeing as non-situational hard counters won't be printed at CMC 2 with any combination of drawbacks that would mean you'd actually want to CAST them on turn 2, I'd really much rather just have non-situational soft counters at CMC 2. Remand, Memory Lapse, and Mana Leak would all be great, even if we only got one of them and even if its mana cost was UU. It would STILL be better to have than Deprive.
This looks like a card which helps you get destroyed by Ruinblaster in games 2 and 3. I cant think of a time when i would ever want to cast this before turn 6 in standard.
I take back every bit of support I've shown for blue mages...you are all a bunch of horrible little babies. If you can't see a decent card right before your eyes then you don't even deserve cancel. You are barely even worth Frazzle. The whole game would be better off if you all just rage quit.
Yes, because Magic would be so much more fun if players who don't share your point of view would all just quit
Anyway, this is not a 2cc Counterspell. Yes, you can counter Putrid Leech, provided you're on the play, but that sets you back so much that you will get slaughtered by Sprouting Thrinax, MotWH, Bloodbraid Elf and whatnot. Returning a land to your hand is not an acceptable loss for traditional control decks.
If a blue/x aggro or landfall concoction sees play somewhere in the near future, then this might see play. For traditional control decks it's much better to metagame and play the Essence Scatter/Negate split that best fits the predicted meta.
If you need to counter something on turn two, what are you going to use? Cancel? No... Essence Scatter if it's not a creature? Negate if it is a creature?
You only use when necessary and you can counter even the referred ruinblaster...
You counter a creature? Then the DoJ can have it's delay...
THINK before you post, what you can and can't do with the cards...
There are people in this forum that only knows to spam and speak bad of each card...
Think what you can do with this card... This is a set of landfall... Did you remembered that also?
You can drop Jace at turn 4 with 2 Noble Hierarch in play and this counter on your hand in order to save him if the board is good for you...
Think of the situations...
Some times it can be bad but this is the people that only compare this to counterspell like people that compare every creature to tarmogoyf...
Ufff...
Regards and think people... This has great potencial Just need testing to confirm
The problem is that turn 2 is extremely important for control decks to stabilize. Lots of things come down on turn 2 that become seriously problematic for lots of traditional control decks because once something's on the board it's much harder to answer. Deprive doesn't solve this problem of modern Standard. Lets think about this in terms of the game state on turn 3 after the blue player cast Deprive:
Blue Player:
Turn 1 - land
Turn 2 - draw, land. Deprive on opponent's Turn 2.
Turn 3 - draw, same land as turn 2.
Our blue player, already on the play instead of on the draw, started off with seven cards in hand and has seen only nine cards total thanks to his two draws. He used a Deprive, so he's down one card.
Other Guy:
Turn 1 - draw, land
Turn 2 - draw, land, dude. Dude gets countered by Deprive.
Turn 3 - draw, land
At this point, Other Guy has seen ten cards and knows that Blue Player has already blown one counterspell. Sure, he lost a dork on turn 2, but he currently has the mana advantage and has seen an extra card in the game. He's being proactive, and his cards don't delay his development when he casts them.
Oddly enough, it's even worse when Blue Player is on the draw instead.
Other Guy:
Turn 1 - land
Turn 2 - draw, land
Turn 3 - draw, land, some spell that gets countered by Deprive
Seen nine cards so far, lost one to a Deprive.
Blue Player
Turn 1 - draw, land
Turn 2 - draw, land, Deprive something on opponent's Turn 3.
Turn 3 - draw, play the same land as turn 2. Your opponent is now heading into turn 4 with three lands to your two and may very well make that four on their turn. Meanwhile, the best you can hope for is that you have a deprive in-hand to set you back to one land to your opponent's four instead. Go ahead and take the time to stare at your 10 cards that you've seen this game compared to your opponent's 9, since it's the only advantage you have right now. Unfortunately, you likely won't have the mana to do anything with that minute card advantage.
Don't get me wrong, this is a great late-game card for when you already have all the land you need out, but early game this is just setting yourself up for failure.
Have you haters never heard of building around cards? You wanna hit your drops? Play U/G! You think counters are only played in control? Think again.
This is a HARD counter, and is perfect for protecting a combo, for one.
This is certanly not a good card, but neither was broken ambitions. Even tho I think broken ambitions is much better than this this card will be played for the same reasons, there is nothing else. Playing this turn 2 could kill you alot of the time but atleast you have the option to do so if you have to. Imagine your opponent playing a luminarch acension on turn 2 and you have 2 blue mana open and are staring at a bunch of cancels in your hand, atleast with this you can counter the acension insted of hoping to draw an oblivian ring. I'm not saying it's great but it is playable.
And to the people who are saying if you counter a creature early and then die cause you can't cast your day of judgement on turn 4: why are you countering a creature if you plan to play a doj on turn 4 anyway? Why not get as much value out of your cards as possible?
I welcome our new control spell. I'd rather have something straight and to the point. Countering what i want instead of being extremely situational (ie Displel and Spell Pierce).
This is a lot better than people give it credit for. It's probably better than Cancel, as you don't have to leave 3 mana up for it and it's not like you can Cancel on turn two anyway. Mid-late game you can bounce your own Halimar Depths and reuse them, which is pretty cool. What I don't like is that you can't play Chalice on turn 3 and still have mana up for this, unlike Negate/Essence Scatter/Flashfreeze.
wow, the control players who cannot see that this is a great card should stop playing control...you have no idea. Anyway, I'd gladly take this card... I'm just hoping that they don't make another chase mythic that'll cost $50.. :S
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Yeah, I counter his Kor Skyfisher on turn 2 and get killed on turn 5 because I couldn't play DoJ on turn 4.
Play skill test my arse.
I'd rather play Cancel 99% of time.
Yes, it's that bad for traditional control.
Or you could just Journey his dude. Considering that the UW Control lists are the best right now, why would you waste a near-Counterspell on a damn Skyfisher when you have the cheap white removl so you can counter the big spells later?
Naysayers, ask yourself some questions:
1. Do I need to counter a 2-drop? The answer is "Not really". Name one 2-drop that will lose you the game in the next 2 turns. 2. Do I need a way to break a stalemate? This answer can be split between yes and no, but recurring Hamilar Depths is just the way to do that. 3. Do I live past T3? I certainly hope this answer is yes.
Those are all of the reasons why Deprive is good.
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"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
You swing in with Baneslayer and Celestial Colonade, they respond with Terminate on Angel and Consume the Meek on your Colonade - you Deprive the Terminate returning your Colonade. Very corner case.
It will see some play, but will force blue players to make some hard choices if they want to cast it on turn 2 or not. Late game it will be amazing.
Great, you've just countered the body but the relevant part got through.
And you lost a card in the process, hurray.
People, get a grip, it's a bad control card.
You make the mistake of thinking that returing a land to your hand is not having a land destroyed.
People wouldn't play Skyfisher if saced a land would they. Or play borderposts if they saced a land. Yes you would be behind 1 land on turn 5 but remember what pat chapin said recently. Ruinblaster isn't that good against UW cause it has so much mana. And it wasn't good against UW when a land was DESTROYED. Meaning that returning a land to your hand wouldn't hurt you either.
Or you could just Journey his dude. Considering that the UW Control lists are the best right now, why would you waste a near-Counterspell on a damn Skyfisher when you have the cheap white removl so you can counter the big spells later?
Naysayers, ask yourself some questions:
1. Do I need to counter a 2-drop? The answer is "Not really". Name one 2-drop that will lose you the game in the next 2 turns. 2. Do I need a way to break a stalemate? This answer can be split between yes and no, but recurring Hamilar Depths is just the way to do that. 3. Do I live past T3? I certainly hope this answer is yes.
Those are all of the reasons why Deprive is good.
I agree with this. You could take 2 damage a turn for 2 turns and then wrath. But a turn 2 leech could be a different story. But you are right. It is probably better to not counter it on turn 2 if you have the option of pathing it after they pay 2 life or something. But sometimes a turn 2 leech is really hard to beat for UW.
I wonder what will it take to make the traditional control players realise that it's not gonna happen any time soon.
Personally, I find this card to be the card that control could use in a huge pinch. After all, you might not need to use it turn 2, but last I heard, a turn 3 Baneslayer Angel is very well possible in Mythic and Jund has Blightning. This card shows up 1 turn early to try to help you survive a turn. Not a bad deal IMO.
You make the mistake of thinking that returing a land to your hand is not having a land destroyed.
It is a massive tempo loss just the same. Losing a land drop = HUGE.
You don't lose the card, but you lose tempo just the same. It is one of the reasons people miss (or hate) Boomerang.
People wouldn't play Skyfisher if saced a land would they.
So you're comparing an aggro deck to a control deck?
Or play borderposts if they saced a land.
The few people that play Borderposts play them because they don't impair your mana development.
Yes you would be behind 1 land on turn 5 but remember what pat chapin said recently. Ruinblaster isn't that good against UW cause it has so much mana. And it wasn't good against UW when a land was DESTROYED. Meaning that returning a land to your hand wouldn't hurt you either.
It isn't that crippling against WU because by turn 4 WU already has five mana or so, which is a good base to stabilize, but no WU player wants to let a Ruinblaster resolve because mana is good.
whats' the point of running this instead of, say, Cancel?
This sole question makes me wonder if you actually know how to play control as you claim. Costing only 2, means that you can drop your own board advancement permanents needing only two untapped lands to defend them rather than 3. Costing 2 means that you can win a counterspell war with 4 mana instead 5-6, etc, etc, etc.
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I do sort of crave a return to the good old days when you could comfortably play a deck with 24 Islands in it and dominate easily with it while not tapping a single land during my turn (except the turn I dropped my finisher of choice.)
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
Good-
Knight of White orchid makes the ability abusable.
Reusing CIPT lands seems decent.
People pay the alternate cost on Daze and still are able to win
More flexible than Cancel since you only need 2 mana open
Bad-
Early tempo loss means you have to play it very smart.
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Except when you counter ruinblaster on turn 4.
Very true. I wouldn't mind counter a leech when I am UW on turn 2. Leech is killer against UW control.
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Yes, because Magic would be so much more fun if players who don't share your point of view would all just quit
Anyway, this is not a 2cc Counterspell. Yes, you can counter Putrid Leech, provided you're on the play, but that sets you back so much that you will get slaughtered by Sprouting Thrinax, MotWH, Bloodbraid Elf and whatnot. Returning a land to your hand is not an acceptable loss for traditional control decks.
If a blue/x aggro or landfall concoction sees play somewhere in the near future, then this might see play. For traditional control decks it's much better to metagame and play the Essence Scatter/Negate split that best fits the predicted meta.
The problem is that turn 2 is extremely important for control decks to stabilize. Lots of things come down on turn 2 that become seriously problematic for lots of traditional control decks because once something's on the board it's much harder to answer. Deprive doesn't solve this problem of modern Standard. Lets think about this in terms of the game state on turn 3 after the blue player cast Deprive:
Blue Player:
Turn 1 - land
Turn 2 - draw, land. Deprive on opponent's Turn 2.
Turn 3 - draw, same land as turn 2.
Our blue player, already on the play instead of on the draw, started off with seven cards in hand and has seen only nine cards total thanks to his two draws. He used a Deprive, so he's down one card.
Other Guy:
Turn 1 - draw, land
Turn 2 - draw, land, dude. Dude gets countered by Deprive.
Turn 3 - draw, land
At this point, Other Guy has seen ten cards and knows that Blue Player has already blown one counterspell. Sure, he lost a dork on turn 2, but he currently has the mana advantage and has seen an extra card in the game. He's being proactive, and his cards don't delay his development when he casts them.
Oddly enough, it's even worse when Blue Player is on the draw instead.
Other Guy:
Turn 1 - land
Turn 2 - draw, land
Turn 3 - draw, land, some spell that gets countered by Deprive
Seen nine cards so far, lost one to a Deprive.
Blue Player
Turn 1 - draw, land
Turn 2 - draw, land, Deprive something on opponent's Turn 3.
Turn 3 - draw, play the same land as turn 2. Your opponent is now heading into turn 4 with three lands to your two and may very well make that four on their turn. Meanwhile, the best you can hope for is that you have a deprive in-hand to set you back to one land to your opponent's four instead. Go ahead and take the time to stare at your 10 cards that you've seen this game compared to your opponent's 9, since it's the only advantage you have right now. Unfortunately, you likely won't have the mana to do anything with that minute card advantage.
Don't get me wrong, this is a great late-game card for when you already have all the land you need out, but early game this is just setting yourself up for failure.
This is a HARD counter, and is perfect for protecting a combo, for one.
And to the people who are saying if you counter a creature early and then die cause you can't cast your day of judgement on turn 4: why are you countering a creature if you plan to play a doj on turn 4 anyway? Why not get as much value out of your cards as possible?
This is a good start at least
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People loving this counter = Everyone who's learned to create succesful, interactive and skill-testing blue-based control decks in the latest years.
Or you could just Journey his dude. Considering that the UW Control lists are the best right now, why would you waste a near-Counterspell on a damn Skyfisher when you have the cheap white removl so you can counter the big spells later?
Naysayers, ask yourself some questions:
1. Do I need to counter a 2-drop? The answer is "Not really". Name one 2-drop that will lose you the game in the next 2 turns.
2. Do I need a way to break a stalemate? This answer can be split between yes and no, but recurring Hamilar Depths is just the way to do that.
3. Do I live past T3? I certainly hope this answer is yes.
Those are all of the reasons why Deprive is good.
this card is HORRIBLE early game.
Wow, no. There's is a huge difference between bouncing and destroying a land.
That said, I'm reserving judgement on this card until I can do some serious testing.
It will see some play, but will force blue players to make some hard choices if they want to cast it on turn 2 or not. Late game it will be amazing.
You make the mistake of thinking that returing a land to your hand is not having a land destroyed.
People wouldn't play Skyfisher if saced a land would they. Or play borderposts if they saced a land. Yes you would be behind 1 land on turn 5 but remember what pat chapin said recently. Ruinblaster isn't that good against UW cause it has so much mana. And it wasn't good against UW when a land was DESTROYED. Meaning that returning a land to your hand wouldn't hurt you either.
Plus as said it could be a upside sometimes.
And...
I agree with this. You could take 2 damage a turn for 2 turns and then wrath. But a turn 2 leech could be a different story. But you are right. It is probably better to not counter it on turn 2 if you have the option of pathing it after they pay 2 life or something. But sometimes a turn 2 leech is really hard to beat for UW.
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Formats where Hypergenesis is legal have access to better cards to answer it.
Personally, I find this card to be the card that control could use in a huge pinch. After all, you might not need to use it turn 2, but last I heard, a turn 3 Baneslayer Angel is very well possible in Mythic and Jund has Blightning. This card shows up 1 turn early to try to help you survive a turn. Not a bad deal IMO.
Currently playing:
T2
BW Aggro-Midrange BW
You don't lose the card, but you lose tempo just the same. It is one of the reasons people miss (or hate) Boomerang.
So you're comparing an aggro deck to a control deck?
The few people that play Borderposts play them because they don't impair your mana development.
It isn't that crippling against WU because by turn 4 WU already has five mana or so, which is a good base to stabilize, but no WU player wants to let a Ruinblaster resolve because mana is good.
See also: why Stone Rain is that more painful than Demolish.
Such as when?
This sole question makes me wonder if you actually know how to play control as you claim. Costing only 2, means that you can drop your own board advancement permanents needing only two untapped lands to defend them rather than 3. Costing 2 means that you can win a counterspell war with 4 mana instead 5-6, etc, etc, etc.
Fix'd.
Good-
Knight of White orchid makes the ability abusable.
Reusing CIPT lands seems decent.
People pay the alternate cost on Daze and still are able to win
More flexible than Cancel since you only need 2 mana open
Bad-
Early tempo loss means you have to play it very smart.