Mtg-realm said that since the brainstorm costs zero, you can play it along with any of the other abilities on him, is that true? being able to play two abilities on him in one turn would be world shattering....or should i say world wak.....never mind
OMG! By that logic we should be able to brainstorm infinite times in one turn, considering it costs 0.
To answer your question, no, that's not how it works. You can only ever use one planeswalker ability a turn.
The only way this thing sees play in standard is if they print a sorcery or instant that puts target permanent on top of it's owners library. Then it would be great, and get played. If it were 3cc to drop it would get played for the brainstorm, but at 4cc you are already needing to do something more significant by turn 4 than draw 3 put 2 back. This card does not pull it's weight like Elspeth, who can help you survive another turn the first turn it comes out.
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Extended:
Preeminant Watch
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Legacy:
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Trisomy 21- Loam Control
EDH:
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No, that's very bad. it's true you get to bstorm, but you basically spend 4 mana tapping out on t4 just to bstorm. your opponent just gain a huge tempo off you by spending 1 to bolt your jace.
in t2, the current aggressive format you basically have to use the first ability unless you're very sure it won't die the moment it hits the board.
You're speaking of strictly turn 4. Without earlier drops playing D, throwing any PW out there on turn 4 is likely to get them killed. There's much less tempo to be risked later in the game, when Jace is much more likely to be played anyways.
So you play "UU2, Sorcery, Unsummon" and then hope Jace doesn't get attacked back? What decks are you playing against? Every Planeswalker with protection is amazing, this is nothing new.
Lets see...Did i say that you use the unsummon right away? Nope. I was making a point that this Jace has more uses than to simply draw a card.(which the person i was responding to said). Stop taking things out of context.
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Quote from thundyr »
Jacerator is an aggro deck - it just wins by attacking the library, it doesn't really control the board other than to play a few Fogs
C'mon, people. Imagine if the original Jace had "0: draw a card." The new one's 0 is strictly (for a loose definition of "strictly") better than that. His +2 is quite nicely playable, particularly later on: you brainstorm, see good stuff, and fateseal for the next couple turns. Or you have a hand, your opponent doesn't, and you use fateseal to help keep it that way. He has all the weaknesses of being a planeswalker, but this is by far the best source of card advantage blue has had for a while. Having 3 abilities you can use off the bat, at least 2 of which will always be relevant, gives an amazing array of options. This guy has utility, and if WW delivers, he's going to back control strategies for a long time to come. I don't foresee myself playing Jace 1.0 in the near future. Can't wait to hear Pat and LSV and the rest comment on him.
C'mon, people. Imagine if the original Jace had "0: draw a card." The new one's 0 is strictly (for a loose definition of "strictly") better than that. His +2 is quite nicely playable, particularly later on: you brainstorm, see good stuff, and fateseal for the next couple turns. Or you have a hand, your opponent doesn't, and you use fateseal to help keep it that way. He has all the weaknesses of being a planeswalker, but this is by far the best source of card advantage blue has had for a while. Having 3 abilities you can use off the bat, at least 2 of which will always be relevant, gives an amazing array of options. This guy has utility, and if WW delivers, he's going to back control strategies for a long time to come. I don't foresee myself playing Jace 1.0 in the near future. Can't wait to hear Pat and LSV and the rest comment on him.
You will never fateseal beyond getting him out of bolt range you will never fateseal beyond getting him out of bolt range you will never....
Mtg-realm said that since the brainstorm costs zero, you can play it along with any of the other abilities on him, is that true? being able to play two abilities on him in one turn would be world shattering....or should i say world wak.....never mind
Our apologies on this . . . dang we are rather retarded sometimes - don't drink and blog friends. A few kind folks sent eMails today and we edited the post immediately. Again - sorry - (wishful thinking though : )
You're speaking of strictly turn 4. Without earlier drops playing D, throwing any PW out there on turn 4 is likely to get them killed. There's much less tempo to be risked later in the game, when Jace is much more likely to be played anyways.
what i mean is for example you're playing uwr or similar control. you throw your wall of denial out there t3, and you play your jace t4, you would still pump your jace when it first hits the board because you don't want to run into the risk for getting bolted or blighted, heck, or even eq'd against any deck with red. against jund for example, you're on the play and play ur wall t3 and t4 jace. jund has either a leech or a thrinax, you would still fateseal first then start bstorming if it lives. no way you just gonna start bstorming right away because that just indicates poor play.
You will never fateseal beyond getting him out of bolt range you will never fateseal beyond getting him out of bolt range you will never....
Disagree. You brainstorm, draw 3 lands. You already have pelnty of land, so you put 2 lands back on top of your library. You don't have a fetchland or other shuffle mechanic. Next turn the correct play is to fateseal your extra land to the bottom of your deck.
Scenario 2: you have a malakir gatekeeper in play, your opponent plays a creature, you use the -1 unsummon ability to return and recast your gatekeeper. You know your opponent has several other creatures, so you fateseal next turn to build loyalty to allow for you to unsummon whenever needed.
Scenario 3: you have a jwar isle sphinx on the battlefield. Your top card is worthless. You don't have a shuffle effect available. Fateseal makes more sense than brainstorm.
Disagree. You brainstorm, draw 3 lands. You already have pelnty of land, so you put 2 lands back on top of your library. You don't have a fetchland or other shuffle mechanic. Next turn the correct play is to fateseal your extra land to the bottom of your deck.
Scenario 2: you have a malakir gatekeeper in play, your opponent plays a creature, you use the -1 unsummon ability to return and recast your gatekeeper. You know your opponent has several other creatures, so you fateseal next turn to build loyalty to allow for you to unsummon whenever needed.
Scenario 3: you have a jwar isle sphinx on the battlefield. Your top card is worthless. You don't have a shuffle effect available. Fateseal makes more sense than brainstorm.
Scenario 3 makes no sense. Fateseal will make it so that you draw your second card during your next draw step. Brainstorm will allow you to draw your first, second, and third cards RIGHT NOW and then put back the two worst cards.
Frankly, unsummon ability would rarely be used since you would probably splash another color for (mass) removal. Thus you rely on the first two abilities to fill your hand with such removal (and counters).
Food for thought: would you play old Jace to get rid of the new Jace that's already in play, then subsequently play your own Jace 2.0?
Then if you Brainstorm once, seeing three cards. You put two cards back. If you want to get rid of a card you can put the card you don't like on the bottom, then Scry it down the next turn. Only Brainstorming will never filter bad cards away.
Then if you Brainstorm once, seeing three cards. You put two cards back. If you want to get rid of a card you can put the card you don't like on the bottom, then Scry it down the next turn. Only Brainstorming will never filter bad cards away.
in combination with fetch lands those bad cards go away
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Then if you Brainstorm once, seeing three cards. You put two cards back. If you want to get rid of a card you can put the card you don't like on the bottom, then Scry it down the next turn. Only Brainstorming will never filter bad cards away.
Fetchlands will. Now that we have the enemy ones in Standard, we can pack 8 fetches and combined with Jace, we can shuffle if we don't like what we see.
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"I don't know why people say a double-edged sword is bad. It's a sword. With two edges." - Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Then if you Brainstorm once, seeing three cards. You put two cards back. If you want to get rid of a card you can put the card you don't like on the bottom, then Scry it down the next turn. Only Brainstorming will never filter bad cards away.
How will it not filter bad cards away? Both abilities will dig one deep, but the Brainstorm will net you card advantage.
Also, why would I use Jace to get rid of bad cards? I think counting to 61 gets rid of the bad cards for me.
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I'm the idiot who spammed wikipedia adding the 120 scar cards crap that people started making fake purple cards with. I dun goof'd.
Keep in mind that with Jace's ability, you are seeing two new cards each time, assuming you have no shuffle effects or extra draws. That means even if you aren't shuffling away, it is still way, way, way better than drawing one card a turn.
Why do people continue to rail against a free scry 1/fateseal 1 per turn? This is not a bad ability.
Yes, I'd rather brainstorm. I'd also like Jace to live and shuffle away useless fluff that I don't need late game. If I'm in a strong position and do not want my opponent to draw the one card he needs to "get out" I can look at his top card. If that's his out, I bottom it; if not, I don't.
Honestly, the ability is not bad. I don't understand why people continue to rail against it. I've no problem using it a time or two to put Jace in safe distance whilst fixing my draws in the mean time. Plus it also gives me room to unsummon creatures when needed so I can get some damage through.
To me, that's good.
I completely agree. The fateseal ability will be useful and have an impact, and it is also a +2 ability. Living the dream and bringing this Jace to his highest end ability might not be a fantasy for a player who plays Jace right. Who knows, control might get strong enough to be a real force in post WWK standard!
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The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
This card will destroy any deck that uses big heavy creature finishers because of the unsummon ability. I don't see that many Baneslayer decks coming up in the future.
YAY!!! Jace is my favorite walker! His 0 is kinda good And next turn, if you just put away two crappy cards, you can do the +2 and put the other one on the bottom.
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You might as well just brainstorm for the card advantage [instead of +2ing], since you get to look at 2 new cards.
We'll see what the rest of Worldwake has to offer before we know if this is playable or not in Standard. There's the issue of having enough board position first, then hoping that the opponent also doesn't have anything. Using it as a win con is a bit weak, since a dedicated mill deck will do better anyways.
Like all Planeswalkers though, if it sticks it'll definitely eventually overpower the opponent due to CA and card quality at the same time. Digging 2 cards (without additional draw) after the first brainstorm each turn ensures you almost always find your answer in the form of counter spells or removal.
Of course, it also has semi-removal on a stick attached to it. If your opponent resolves something when you've tapped out with Jace, the next turn you can most likely just bounce it back and have counter mana open.
OMG! By that logic we should be able to brainstorm infinite times in one turn, considering it costs 0.
To answer your question, no, that's not how it works. You can only ever use one planeswalker ability a turn.
Standard:
U/G TurboTitans
B/G TurboNixilis
Extended:
Preeminant Watch
RDW
(trying to hatch an Extended deck to abuse Emrakul...)
Legacy:
Vial Goblins mono red
Trisomy 21- Loam Control
EDH:
Brion Stoutarm- Fling Drazi
Rafiq of the Many Huge Show and Tell Dudes
Peasant:
MBC
Bant aggro
You're speaking of strictly turn 4. Without earlier drops playing D, throwing any PW out there on turn 4 is likely to get them killed. There's much less tempo to be risked later in the game, when Jace is much more likely to be played anyways.
Lets see...Did i say that you use the unsummon right away? Nope. I was making a point that this Jace has more uses than to simply draw a card.(which the person i was responding to said). Stop taking things out of context.
You will never fateseal beyond getting him out of bolt range you will never fateseal beyond getting him out of bolt range you will never....
Our apologies on this . . . dang we are rather retarded sometimes - don't drink and blog friends. A few kind folks sent eMails today and we edited the post immediately. Again - sorry - (wishful thinking though : )
~
what i mean is for example you're playing uwr or similar control. you throw your wall of denial out there t3, and you play your jace t4, you would still pump your jace when it first hits the board because you don't want to run into the risk for getting bolted or blighted, heck, or even eq'd against any deck with red. against jund for example, you're on the play and play ur wall t3 and t4 jace. jund has either a leech or a thrinax, you would still fateseal first then start bstorming if it lives. no way you just gonna start bstorming right away because that just indicates poor play.
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Disagree. You brainstorm, draw 3 lands. You already have pelnty of land, so you put 2 lands back on top of your library. You don't have a fetchland or other shuffle mechanic. Next turn the correct play is to fateseal your extra land to the bottom of your deck.
Scenario 2: you have a malakir gatekeeper in play, your opponent plays a creature, you use the -1 unsummon ability to return and recast your gatekeeper. You know your opponent has several other creatures, so you fateseal next turn to build loyalty to allow for you to unsummon whenever needed.
Scenario 3: you have a jwar isle sphinx on the battlefield. Your top card is worthless. You don't have a shuffle effect available. Fateseal makes more sense than brainstorm.
Scenario 3 makes no sense. Fateseal will make it so that you draw your second card during your next draw step. Brainstorm will allow you to draw your first, second, and third cards RIGHT NOW and then put back the two worst cards.
Frankly, unsummon ability would rarely be used since you would probably splash another color for (mass) removal. Thus you rely on the first two abilities to fill your hand with such removal (and counters).
Food for thought: would you play old Jace to get rid of the new Jace that's already in play, then subsequently play your own Jace 2.0?
........................
Then if you Brainstorm once, seeing three cards. You put two cards back. If you want to get rid of a card you can put the card you don't like on the bottom, then Scry it down the next turn. Only Brainstorming will never filter bad cards away.
in combination with fetch lands those bad cards go away
T2:
Tempered Steel:symw:
:symr::symu::symw: Birthing Pod:symr::symu::symw:
Legacy:
:symu::symb:
Four Horsemen
:symu::symb:
Thanks to Wrathchild for the Sig, it's perfect!!!
Thanks to Bookworm10 for the Avatar!
Fetchlands will. Now that we have the enemy ones in Standard, we can pack 8 fetches and combined with Jace, we can shuffle if we don't like what we see.
How will it not filter bad cards away? Both abilities will dig one deep, but the Brainstorm will net you card advantage.
Also, why would I use Jace to get rid of bad cards? I think counting to 61 gets rid of the bad cards for me.
I completely agree. The fateseal ability will be useful and have an impact, and it is also a +2 ability. Living the dream and bringing this Jace to his highest end ability might not be a fantasy for a player who plays Jace right. Who knows, control might get strong enough to be a real force in post WWK standard!
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if any good deckbuilders are still out there, they would realize that wall of denial into jace m.s. into baneslayer is game over.
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We'll see what the rest of Worldwake has to offer before we know if this is playable or not in Standard. There's the issue of having enough board position first, then hoping that the opponent also doesn't have anything. Using it as a win con is a bit weak, since a dedicated mill deck will do better anyways.
Like all Planeswalkers though, if it sticks it'll definitely eventually overpower the opponent due to CA and card quality at the same time. Digging 2 cards (without additional draw) after the first brainstorm each turn ensures you almost always find your answer in the form of counter spells or removal.
Of course, it also has semi-removal on a stick attached to it. If your opponent resolves something when you've tapped out with Jace, the next turn you can most likely just bounce it back and have counter mana open.
- Benjammn
Lol, what?
I must be mistaken because it seems to me you are saying that Jace, Mind Sculptor is good enough for legacy.