Finally, for those who don't think that new Jace is any good . . . They had to ban Sensei's Divining Top in Extended because it was too good in certain combinations and it was really hard to get rid of. This is better. This has all of the benefits of the Top PLUS THREE MORE ABILITIES! Ok, it's slightly easier to get rid of, but it's not like Jace is an Illusionary Servant or a Skulking Ghost or whatever. It's still going to be hard to get off the board. And, yes, it's more expensive than the Top, but Jace has THREE MORE ABILITIES! And it only costs 4! Four mana for a practically free Sensei's Divining Top every turn WITH an Unsummon AND an I-win ultimate tacked on if you need them. This is the best and most exciting card I've seen since . . . Sensei's Diving Top. Ok, actually Cryptic Command. I was just being funny.
But like you pointed out, SDT costs 1, and this costs 2UU, and the real reason SDT was so powerful was because you could start using it turn 2 to arrange your stuff- thats a 2 turn advantage on jace. He's still good, but not nearly in the range of SDT
I believe hes quite balanced. Very aggressive, but his ultimate is going to be out of reach for anything but the most turbofog/control decks.
(and its not even a win conditions, its a "I win in a couple turns" condition most likely)
Who the ☺☺☺☺'s going to use his ultimate? I'm going to use his +2 ability the turn he comes into play then Brainstorm/Top every turn until my opponent kills him or me. Maybe in a pinch I'll use the Unsummon, but I will never use the final ability. Ever. That's probably why they made his ultimate so powerful and enticing. They knew people would ignore it otherwise.
not to interrupt you guys' bickering, but has anyone posted the final piece or know when that shop is opening? i know we know all the abilities but id still like to see it.
Nevertheless, I think the best thing about it is the 3rd ability. The Brainstorm engine takes some time to come online, and you essentially have to pull your pants down as a control player to get it there. The unsummon gives this Jace some bite right out of the gate. Without it, I'm skeptical about how effectively you can fend off the inevitable beatdown that's coming your way as soon as you drop this.
So... you tap 4 mana in a blue deck at sorcery speed... then you darksteel pendant 5 times in the next 5 turns and maybe deck your opponent. If they don't damage you. Uh... pfft. Maybe you draw 3, put 2 back, then next turn darksteel pendant yourself and put 1 junk card on the bottom. Uh... ok. I like concentration/divination better. The unsummon seems to me to be the best part of this card. Except it's a sorcery. And the opponent sees it. Tempo advantage, Moderate. Watch out for this being very overhyped.... Once you get over the "OMG It's blue Jesus with an orange expansion symbol!" part...
Well, another one that's never played with brainstorm and doesn't really know what they're on about.
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EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
When Island is the 3rd most played card in a format (after Brainstorm and Force of Will) and Plains and Swamps aren't in the top 50, I think there's a problem.
Original Jace doesnt see play right now because there is simply too much pressure from creatures in current Standard for an engine like him to stay on the board long enough to be worth a 1UU + card investment.
This Jace has a similar problem. Yes, he can pseudo-defend himself via his -1, but that is just begging for Blightning/Lightning Bolt, and he can obviously only do it a limited number of times. Too, unlike Elspeth's soldiers, Unsummon is no defense against hasty creatures (how can we forget Bloodbraid Elf?).
If his starting loyalty was 4, he would be an excellent card, coming down in Brainstorm mode and representing a significant threat at 2UU. As is, I predict that all too often when Jace is cast he will either scry once then eat a creature attack or unsummon once and then die to Blightning or Lightning Bolt. I guess I'm saying he 'dies to removal' but the point is, he dies to too muchremoval without impacting the board state enough for his casting cost.
All you need to do is get jace to survive that first turn in play. Use his first ability to get outta burn range, then on subsequent turns brainstorm or unsummon with counter mana up. Jace will be incredible if he survives the first turn.
(edit:Please everyone stop speculating it isnt brainstorm...its been confirmed)
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Quote from thundyr »
Jacerator is an aggro deck - it just wins by attacking the library, it doesn't really control the board other than to play a few Fogs
So... you tap 4 mana in a blue deck at sorcery speed... then you darksteel pendant 5 times in the next 5 turns and maybe deck your opponent. If they don't damage you. Uh... pfft. Maybe you draw 3, put 2 back, then next turn darksteel pendant yourself and put 1 junk card on the bottom. Uh... ok. I like concentration/divination better. The unsummon seems to me to be the best part of this card. Except it's a sorcery. And the opponent sees it. Tempo advantage, Moderate. Watch out for this being very overhyped.... Once you get over the "OMG It's blue Jesus with an orange expansion symbol!" part...
If you are advocating this is another "lotus cobra flop" please mail me every jace you get please thanks. Because look at lotus cobra it's everywhere because it's a good card that was hyped properly because look at worlds all the famous decks had lotus cobra in it. especially magical christmas land. It's easy to be optimistic on every cards and it's easy to be pesimistic on every card. But they way you are saying it is that you find the one problem of a card and advocate not playing it because of it. That's like me saying tarmogoyf is good and you saying no it sucks all you do is "Smother, doomblade, terror, path, swords, blah blah blah it so it's sucks cause you can kill it..."
So what you are playing blue protect your freaking jace and win already. It's a good card it's going to be equivilent to Elspeth in price becuase it is that good.
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Standard: Esper Spirits-WUB
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
Wow. No, Jace Beleren sees a ton of play in this Standard and saw even more last Standard. This guy would be a little too good with one more starting loyalty.
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A voice for Timmy.
Commander R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
This is amazing...did i actually glance over a couple of people saying this sucks?
there is always an idiot.
a zero costing brainstorm
wow i thought i was possible for maybe unsummon to be a zero as i said before but brainstorm is even better.
If you are advocating this is another "lotus cobra flop" please mail me every jace you get please thanks. Because look at lotus cobra it's everywhere because it's a good card that was hyped properly because look at worlds all the famous decks had lotus cobra in it. especially magical christmas land.
magical christmas land was a bad deck....even conley said not to play it after worlds. it was a meta game call
This jace has a better first turn in play than original jace, but you'd have to expect that for an extra mana.
Yes, a brainstorm every turn is insane and if you let this jace live you will lose the game. But original jace would draw you more cards than your opponent almost every turn as well, and was still an answer or lose card.
Original Jace can also put himself out of burn range.
Basically, they are both must answer planeswalkers that have proven to be fairly easy to answer.
All in all, not that much better than original jace.
magical christmas land was a bad deck....even conley said not to play it after worlds. it was a meta game call
No, he didn't say it was a bad deck. He also played a variant at States (I live in CO, definitely saw it).
But I would say this card looks like it's drawing the exact same reaction as Lotus Cobra... a bunch of people going "omgwtfbbq BROKEN!!1!" and a bunch of people going "meh." It's gonna work out to be "really good in the right deck." Mark my words.
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There are two types of people in this world: people who think that countermagic is the most powerful effect in the game and people who aren't morons.
My color is Purple. I value diversity, smashed color pies and obsolete Inquest articles. At my best, I can redefine MTG in a new and wonderful way. At my worst, I can end up as an Unhinged joke. My symbol is not defined. My enemies are 5 old and bureaucratic angry colors.
This new Jace doesn't impact the board right away its true, but he does impact the gamestate in a very major way long term. With a starting loyalty cost of essentially 5 and surrounded by (currently) conditional control pieces it can survive quite well.
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GO L.A. LAKERS!! 29-8 and rolling!!
"Those who would sacrifice freedom for securitydeserve neither ." - Benjamin Franklin
:kitty:Thank You Hannes for taking the time to keep up such an exceptional forum site.:kitty:
But like you pointed out, SDT costs 1, and this costs 2UU, and the real reason SDT was so powerful was because you could start using it turn 2 to arrange your stuff- thats a 2 turn advantage on jace. He's still good, but not nearly in the range of SDT
I believe hes quite balanced. Very aggressive, but his ultimate is going to be out of reach for anything but the most turbofog/control decks.
(and its not even a win conditions, its a "I win in a couple turns" condition most likely)
Great card, I love it.
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It's probably not broken in Standard, but its probably going to make blue even more disgusting in Legacy and dominant in Ext.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
And thats a bad thing?
"Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither ." - Benjamin Franklin
:kitty:Thank You Hannes for taking the time to keep up such an exceptional forum site.:kitty:
I'm :argh:at WoTC for:nike::symu:.
Lyoto Machida beat Shogun Rua.
Type 2: RB Bloodquake
Type 2 Lorwyn/Alara season: UB Fae despite the hate! Oh how I miss it...:rolleyes:
O_o
Nevertheless, I think the best thing about it is the 3rd ability. The Brainstorm engine takes some time to come online, and you essentially have to pull your pants down as a control player to get it there. The unsummon gives this Jace some bite right out of the gate. Without it, I'm skeptical about how effectively you can fend off the inevitable beatdown that's coming your way as soon as you drop this.
i think it will get more play in standard than extended. control in extended actually has permission AND stuff that needs countering
Well, another one that's never played with brainstorm and doesn't really know what they're on about.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
When Island is the 3rd most played card in a format (after Brainstorm and Force of Will) and Plains and Swamps aren't in the top 50, I think there's a problem.
It was confirmed in the Japanese spoiler as far as I know.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
Original Jace doesnt see play right now because there is simply too much pressure from creatures in current Standard for an engine like him to stay on the board long enough to be worth a 1UU + card investment.
This Jace has a similar problem. Yes, he can pseudo-defend himself via his -1, but that is just begging for Blightning/Lightning Bolt, and he can obviously only do it a limited number of times. Too, unlike Elspeth's soldiers, Unsummon is no defense against hasty creatures (how can we forget Bloodbraid Elf?).
If his starting loyalty was 4, he would be an excellent card, coming down in Brainstorm mode and representing a significant threat at 2UU. As is, I predict that all too often when Jace is cast he will either scry once then eat a creature attack or unsummon once and then die to Blightning or Lightning Bolt. I guess I'm saying he 'dies to removal' but the point is, he dies to too muchremoval without impacting the board state enough for his casting cost.
I have better things to do with 4 mana in standard right now...
(edit:Please everyone stop speculating it isnt brainstorm...its been confirmed)
Did no one pay attention to what happened with white?
If you are advocating this is another "lotus cobra flop" please mail me every jace you get please thanks. Because look at lotus cobra it's everywhere because it's a good card that was hyped properly because look at worlds all the famous decks had lotus cobra in it. especially magical christmas land. It's easy to be optimistic on every cards and it's easy to be pesimistic on every card. But they way you are saying it is that you find the one problem of a card and advocate not playing it because of it. That's like me saying tarmogoyf is good and you saying no it sucks all you do is "Smother, doomblade, terror, path, swords, blah blah blah it so it's sucks cause you can kill it..."
So what you are playing blue protect your freaking jace and win already. It's a good card it's going to be equivilent to Elspeth in price becuase it is that good.
Modern: Bant Geist-WUG
Legacy: Reanimator-UB-WRG
EDH:
Ramirez DePietro: Pirate Themed-UB
Riku of Two Reflections: "Oops I Win"-URG
Commander
R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control
GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
there is always an idiot.
a zero costing brainstorm
wow i thought i was possible for maybe unsummon to be a zero as i said before but brainstorm is even better.
The japanese card has a 2 and 3...since we know its draw 3 then it has to be put back 2.
magical christmas land was a bad deck....even conley said not to play it after worlds. it was a meta game call
Yes, a brainstorm every turn is insane and if you let this jace live you will lose the game. But original jace would draw you more cards than your opponent almost every turn as well, and was still an answer or lose card.
Original Jace can also put himself out of burn range.
Basically, they are both must answer planeswalkers that have proven to be fairly easy to answer.
All in all, not that much better than original jace.
No, he didn't say it was a bad deck. He also played a variant at States (I live in CO, definitely saw it).
But I would say this card looks like it's drawing the exact same reaction as Lotus Cobra... a bunch of people going "omgwtfbbq BROKEN!!1!" and a bunch of people going "meh." It's gonna work out to be "really good in the right deck." Mark my words.
"Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither ." - Benjamin Franklin
:kitty:Thank You Hannes for taking the time to keep up such an exceptional forum site.:kitty:
I'm :argh:at WoTC for:nike::symu:.
Lyoto Machida beat Shogun Rua.
Type 2: RB Bloodquake
Type 2 Lorwyn/Alara season: UB Fae despite the hate! Oh how I miss it...:rolleyes:
O_o
Polymorph shenanigans
Cascade precision
Lorescale Coatl pump
And so much more...