My guess is changing the mana pool emptying at the end of each step and phase to simply the end of each phase.
This could be it. It could also be lifelink isn't static anymore, not that that's a big deal.
I'm sure deathtouch rules are going to stay put because it fits with the current rulings and they would be making a lot of rule changes just to "fix" this.
Deathtouch doesn't have a special rule that lets spread damage as you see fit. It works that way because you have to deal lethal damage before dealing damage to a second creature. Since 1 deathtouch damage is lethal, you only need to do one and move on to the next.
I doubt they'd change that rule because then trample would be screwed up because you could then just not damage the blocker and hit the opponent instead, because you wouldn't have to deal lethal damage to the creatures first.
Deathtouch doesn't have a special rule that lets spread damage as you see fit. It works that way because you have to deal lethal damage before dealing damage to a second creature. Since 1 deathtouch damage is lethal, you only need to do one and move on to the next.
@Jivemasta
Careful. Players can divide the damage as they see fit. However, I think your idea of it would be a smoother explanation than the current one:
702.2b A player assigning combat damage from a creature with deathtouch can divide that damage as he or she chooses among any number of creatures blocking or blocked by it. This is an exception to the procedures described in rules 510.1c–d.
Deathtouch doesn't have a special rule that lets spread damage as you see fit. It works that way because you have to deal lethal damage before dealing damage to a second creature.
These sentences are simply incorrect. You've been misinformed.
Deathtouch absolutely does have a special rule that lets you spread damage as you see fit (702.2b, as seen above). Damage from creatures with deathtouch is not considered automatically lethal damage.
I would imagine that the rules change will just be considering any deathtouch damage as lethal. That would make deathtouch and trample a force to be reckoned with, especially on a high power critter getting lure-blocked (okay one to you, and to you, and to you, okay you take thirteen even though there's 20 toughness blocking me and it's a 15 power creature), but it does make it a touch more intuitive. The Blob didn't need to cover people with 100% of its mass to eat someone after all. It just kept on oozing.
It can only actually be the way mana empties or the way combat works because everything else would be undoing what they changed last year but Aaron said tweak ever so slightly. If you have seen the Magic Show episode where a guy at the prerelease talks about another way to make it so you can pseudo stack damage with a battle zone. I forget exactly how it worked but I think WOTC is going to take the idea and use it because it allows them to have the rule the way they want it and the old way at the same time.
I would imagine that the rules change will just be considering any deathtouch damage as lethal. That would make deathtouch and trample a force to be reckoned with, especially on a high power critter getting lure-blocked (okay one to you, and to you, and to you, okay you take thirteen even though there's 20 toughness blocking me and it's a 15 power creature), but it does make it a touch more intuitive. The Blob didn't need to cover people with 100% of its mass to eat someone after all. It just kept on oozing.
#
That would make sense. Mana pool emptying at the end of phases would make sense as well. While it never happened to me yet, it just seems wrong that you can pay things like Ghostly Prison only with mana abilities anymore, not with something like LED or similar things - most infinite combos dont work either to create mana at the right time to pay for the Prison - and that's just stupid, right?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sometimes those with the most sin cast the first stones.
I would like to see changes to prevention and re-direction effects. The way you have to pay for regeneration in the declare blockers phase is dumb. I'd like to see a step similar to damage on the stack, where I know whether or not I have to pay mana to regin or not. I know that's too complicated.
Hopefully this is fixing the way mana pools empty. Floating mana is advanced rules and doesn't really need to be "fixed" for new players.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
The current rules aren't bad, they work very well.
But if I wish for something, is related to lifelink, a small change that permits more than one instance of it (lifelink 2, lifelink 3), and you win life 'for each instance' of lifelink when damage is dealt...
A child of night with behemoth sledge... 4/3, Trample, Lifelink, Lifelink or "Lifelink 2"... so, gives life when deals damage 'for each Lifelink instance'...
I would bet it will involve a tweak to the combat damage rules, most likely related to Deathtouch. The way only Deathtouch damage can be divided and how it interacts with Trample is just messy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig banner by Xyre. My MTG Blog (inactive)
GDS1 & GDS2 entrant. Former Rules Advisor & casual-level TO. Semi-lapsed player in general.
My guess is changing the mana pool emptying at the end of each step and phase to simply the end of each phase.
This. The fact that I can't add mana to my pool during combat after declaring attackers and then use it after blockers are declared is ridiculous. (If you're wondering why I would do that, let's say I'm attacking with a Basal Sliver and 2 Crypt Rippers. My opponent Lightning Bolts the sliver before blockers so I sac it for 2 black mana. As it stands, I would have to choose how to pump before he chooses blockers, or just lose the mana).
I doubt it will be lifelink stacking again, because now lifelink allows you to gain life at the same time damage is dealt instead of after a trigger resolves. The tradeoff to not being able to gain double or triple life is that you can now survive combat that would have previously killed you.
I would like to see changes to prevention and re-direction effects. The way you have to pay for regeneration in the declare blockers phase is dumb. I'd like to see a step similar to damage on the stack, where I know whether or not I have to pay mana to regin or not. I know that's too complicated.
We used to have this before the 6th ed rules changes. Before combat damage went on the stack (Because there was no stack yet), we had something called the "Damage prevention phase". Damage was assigned, but then you had your chance to play prevention and redirection spells and abilities. This was changed to stacking damage because it was messy and confusing.
I'm going on record right now and stating that before the end of 2012 we will see foil dual lands in booster packs (The real, Alpha dual lands). You can quote me on that.
I vote the Deathtouch change. The rule that says "Creatures with Deathtouch can assign how they want" is simply unintuitive and dumb. It smacks of them not realizing until the last moment that the conga line system hurt lure creatures and cards like Kederekt Creeper and it was hastily tacked on. It was also probably done specifically because of it's feared interaction with Trample, either thinking it too powerful (not at all) or a reversal of how Trample has universally worked in the past (which it is, especially after they did all the reminder text stuff in M10), leading to confusion.
Make creatures with Deathtouch automatically count as lethal; clean, intuitive and not overpowered.
I'll be a bit disappointed if it is just emptying at end of phases rather than steps; I know however that they need to throw a slight bone to Legacy/Vintage peeps though.
So if I were to say "you're a complete douchebag who has his head up his ass so far he's using his own eyeballs as glasses," you'd simply shrug it off?
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced.
If I had to guess (or rather, if you asked me how I would change things) they should just tweak the ordering rule for multiple blockers.
Now: You have to deal enough damage to kill each blocker in sequence.
Suggested Change: You have to do the same amount or more damage to each blocker in sequence as the one after it.
This would let them get rid of the awkward hack in the Deathtouch rules and bring back tricks like Volcanic Fallout-after-damage but not bring back actual damage on the stack.
All the other M10 rules are basically exactly right the way they changed them, IMO, so I kind of hope this is the change they're making.
I think this tweak is the biggest change the M10 rules could use and it would satisfy some of the few remaining complaints about the combat change without actually bringing back DotS.
Hopefully they change the combat rule of creatures forming the line.
As an alternate, they should damage to be distributed any way and allow for a damage prevention/redirection and regeneration step. (2nd part actually eliminates the need for the first part)
That would make sense. Mana pool emptying at the end of phases would make sense as well. While it never happened to me yet, it just seems wrong that you can pay things like Ghostly Prison only with mana abilities anymore, not with something like LED or similar things - most infinite combos dont work either to create mana at the right time to pay for the Prison - and that's just stupid, right?
This.
I don't know what awful things deathtouch has done to you guys. Those rules are staying.
I don't even understand your quoted post, charlequin.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Epic banner by Erasmus of æтђєг.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
The rules change is going to be that the defending player rather than the attacking player orders the conga line.
Many players get confused by the counterintuitiveness in CLoD of defending player choosing blockers but attacking player choosing order of blockers ("Get your hands off my blockers! Stop moving them around!"), and this rules change would solve that.
I don't even understand your quoted post, charlequin.
What Charlequin is saying is that if he attacks with a 4/4 and the opponent blocks with two 2/4s, he wants to be able to assign 2 damage to each of the 2/4s so that after combat he can Pyroclasm.
I don't believe WotC would implement Charlequin's proposed change because "You have to do the same amount or more damage to each blocker in sequence as the one after it" is considerably more complicated than the current rule, and WotC just wants everything as simple for newbies as possible. (This is not me saying that Charlequin's rule is bad; this is me saying that WotC would think it's bad. Personally, I just want the stack back, but MaRo and Forsythe both state that's not happening. CLoD is terrible and counterintuitive on so many levels.)
As an alternate, they should damage to be distributed any way and allow for a damage prevention/redirection and regeneration step. (2nd part actually eliminates the need for the first part)
If they do that, they might as well bring back the stack, since that is basically what you are doing: damage is "floating" while players play prevention spells/abilities. What spells/abilities are you going to allow during this "damage prevention step"? If a spell both prevents damage and bounces a creature, can it be played? If so, and the attacker is bounced, should its "floating" damage still get dealt? The prevention step was essentially what the stack was.
I would like to see changes to prevention and re-direction effects. The way you have to pay for regeneration in the declare blockers phase is dumb. I'd like to see a step similar to damage on the stack, where I know whether or not I have to pay mana to regin or not. I know that's too complicated.
Hopefully this is fixing the way mana pools empty. Floating mana is advanced rules and doesn't really need to be "fixed" for new players.
How is it dumb. You know what you'll need to regenerate during the declare blockers step. There's no need for a change there. The reason you'll know what needs regenerating/damage prevention is because of the ordering of blockers.
The rules change is going to be that the defending player rather than the attacking player orders the conga line.
Many players get confused by the counterintuitiveness in CLoD of defending player choosing blockers but attacking player choosing order of blockers ("Get your hands off my blockers! Stop moving them around!"), and this rules change would solve that.
The rules change is going to be that the defending player rather than the attacking player orders the conga line.
Many players get confused by the counterintuitiveness in CLoD of defending player choosing blockers but attacking player choosing order of blockers ("Get your hands off my blockers! Stop moving them around!"), and this rules change would solve that.
You heard it here first!
I think SOMEONE is too young to remember banding! Simple scenario:
You swing with a Vastwood Gorger (5/6). I block with a 1/1 and a 5/5, ordering the 1/1 first. You kill my 1/1 and can't kill my 5/5.
Another scenario where the double block wouldn't even normally be necessary:
You swing with a 5/5. I block with a 1/1 and a 5/5. I lose my 1/1 and kill your 5/5.
Even more outlandish scenario:
You swing with a 7/7. I block with an 0/8 wall and a 7/1 guy. I lose nothing but kill your 7/7.
Basically, if they're clearly never going to reprint the ability banding, why would they alter the rules so that all creatures have banding?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Rage is the only freedom left me"
"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they're folded.". - Dr. Jeebus
I'm going on record right now and stating that before the end of 2012 we will see foil dual lands in booster packs (The real, Alpha dual lands). You can quote me on that.
I never particularly saw the point of the conga line of blockers. I should be free to distribute my damage among any of the creatures blocking me. Unless of course, those creatures have banding.
For example, if I swung with a 4/4 with wither and I lured it, and had a Kulrath Knight on the field, then my opponent was lured to block with four 1/4 defenders, it'd make far more sense, knowing I'll lose my creature, do deal 1 point of damage to all the blockers.
What could it be?, it's certain that stack dmg isn't coming back
Quoted from Maro's twitter
Maybe mana burn?, what do you think?
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
This could be it. It could also be lifelink isn't static anymore, not that that's a big deal.
I'm sure deathtouch rules are going to stay put because it fits with the current rulings and they would be making a lot of rule changes just to "fix" this.
I doubt they'd change that rule because then trample would be screwed up because you could then just not damage the blocker and hit the opponent instead, because you wouldn't have to deal lethal damage to the creatures first.
WRBoros
RKuldotha Red
@Jivemasta
Careful. Players can divide the damage as they see fit. However, I think your idea of it would be a smoother explanation than the current one:
702.2b A player assigning combat damage from a creature with deathtouch can divide that damage as he or she chooses among any number of creatures blocking or blocked by it. This is an exception to the procedures described in rules 510.1c–d.
These sentences are simply incorrect. You've been misinformed.
Deathtouch absolutely does have a special rule that lets you spread damage as you see fit (702.2b, as seen above). Damage from creatures with deathtouch is not considered automatically lethal damage.
Past Ruminations
Links are broken, will fix in near future.
- Kaladesh
- Zendikar
- Rise of the Eldrazi
- Alara Reborn
- Innistrad <- Personal Favorite
- Dark Ascension
- Avacyn Restored
- Theros
- Return to Ravnica
- Tarkir
#
That would make sense. Mana pool emptying at the end of phases would make sense as well. While it never happened to me yet, it just seems wrong that you can pay things like Ghostly Prison only with mana abilities anymore, not with something like LED or similar things - most infinite combos dont work either to create mana at the right time to pay for the Prison - and that's just stupid, right?
Hopefully this is fixing the way mana pools empty. Floating mana is advanced rules and doesn't really need to be "fixed" for new players.
But if I wish for something, is related to lifelink, a small change that permits more than one instance of it (lifelink 2, lifelink 3), and you win life 'for each instance' of lifelink when damage is dealt...
A child of night with behemoth sledge... 4/3, Trample, Lifelink, Lifelink or "Lifelink 2"... so, gives life when deals damage 'for each Lifelink instance'...
Sig banner by Xyre.
My MTG Blog (inactive)
GDS1 & GDS2 entrant. Former Rules Advisor & casual-level TO. Semi-lapsed player in general.
"Some good blue cards will be printed!"
It's probably the "ordering blockers" change.
This. The fact that I can't add mana to my pool during combat after declaring attackers and then use it after blockers are declared is ridiculous. (If you're wondering why I would do that, let's say I'm attacking with a Basal Sliver and 2 Crypt Rippers. My opponent Lightning Bolts the sliver before blockers so I sac it for 2 black mana. As it stands, I would have to choose how to pump before he chooses blockers, or just lose the mana).
I doubt it will be lifelink stacking again, because now lifelink allows you to gain life at the same time damage is dealt instead of after a trigger resolves. The tradeoff to not being able to gain double or triple life is that you can now survive combat that would have previously killed you.
We used to have this before the 6th ed rules changes. Before combat damage went on the stack (Because there was no stack yet), we had something called the "Damage prevention phase". Damage was assigned, but then you had your chance to play prevention and redirection spells and abilities. This was changed to stacking damage because it was messy and confusing.
"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they're folded.". - Dr. Jeebus
Make creatures with Deathtouch automatically count as lethal; clean, intuitive and not overpowered.
I'll be a bit disappointed if it is just emptying at end of phases rather than steps; I know however that they need to throw a slight bone to Legacy/Vintage peeps though.
Actually, I take that back, I vote both!:D
No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a significant number of electrons were slightly inconvenienced.
I think this tweak is the biggest change the M10 rules could use and it would satisfy some of the few remaining complaints about the combat change without actually bringing back DotS.
As an alternate, they should damage to be distributed any way and allow for a damage prevention/redirection and regeneration step. (2nd part actually eliminates the need for the first part)
This.
I don't know what awful things deathtouch has done to you guys. Those rules are staying.
I don't even understand your quoted post, charlequin.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Many players get confused by the counterintuitiveness in CLoD of defending player choosing blockers but attacking player choosing order of blockers ("Get your hands off my blockers! Stop moving them around!"), and this rules change would solve that.
You heard it here first!
What Charlequin is saying is that if he attacks with a 4/4 and the opponent blocks with two 2/4s, he wants to be able to assign 2 damage to each of the 2/4s so that after combat he can Pyroclasm.
I don't believe WotC would implement Charlequin's proposed change because "You have to do the same amount or more damage to each blocker in sequence as the one after it" is considerably more complicated than the current rule, and WotC just wants everything as simple for newbies as possible. (This is not me saying that Charlequin's rule is bad; this is me saying that WotC would think it's bad. Personally, I just want the stack back, but MaRo and Forsythe both state that's not happening. CLoD is terrible and counterintuitive on so many levels.)
If they do that, they might as well bring back the stack, since that is basically what you are doing: damage is "floating" while players play prevention spells/abilities. What spells/abilities are you going to allow during this "damage prevention step"? If a spell both prevents damage and bounces a creature, can it be played? If so, and the attacker is bounced, should its "floating" damage still get dealt? The prevention step was essentially what the stack was.
How is it dumb. You know what you'll need to regenerate during the declare blockers step. There's no need for a change there. The reason you'll know what needs regenerating/damage prevention is because of the ordering of blockers.
No. Just no. I certainly hope you're joking.
My art blog
Claims:
The kicker variant in WWK will be "Kicker without a kicked effect." - proven wrong Jan 2010 : 2 wrongs
Decks:
:symu::symb: Bloodchief Ascension - Modern
:symb::symr: Rakdos, the Defiler - EDH
:symu::symb::symw: Sharuum the Hegemon - EDH
:symw::symu::symb: Zur the Enchanter - EDH
I think SOMEONE is too young to remember banding! Simple scenario:
You swing with a Vastwood Gorger (5/6). I block with a 1/1 and a 5/5, ordering the 1/1 first. You kill my 1/1 and can't kill my 5/5.
Another scenario where the double block wouldn't even normally be necessary:
You swing with a 5/5. I block with a 1/1 and a 5/5. I lose my 1/1 and kill your 5/5.
Even more outlandish scenario:
You swing with a 7/7. I block with an 0/8 wall and a 7/1 guy. I lose nothing but kill your 7/7.
Basically, if they're clearly never going to reprint the ability banding, why would they alter the rules so that all creatures have banding?
"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they're folded.". - Dr. Jeebus
For example, if I swung with a 4/4 with wither and I lured it, and had a Kulrath Knight on the field, then my opponent was lured to block with four 1/4 defenders, it'd make far more sense, knowing I'll lose my creature, do deal 1 point of damage to all the blockers.
Standard:
UR Ral Combo
Modern:
U Merfolk
R Goblins
Commander
RB Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
R Feldon of the Third Path