The OP obviously never played when desperate ritual was in standard either.Then add stuff like Lava Spike & Glacial Ray to the mix.Without even splicing it's possible to deal 9 to the face on 2nd turn.
Sir MchallsMaybe:
Blood Ritual R
Sorcery
As an additional cost to play Blood Ritual sacrifice a land.
Add RRR to your mana pool.
You loose your land drop, and can't cast is twice on your first turn.
Thats a good card.Keeps with reds "Do now think later...maybe." emotions.And keeps from being degenerate like DR was.
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WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Fast Mana is the #1 killer of formats, period. Giving the ability to create three mana on turn 1 with a single card to any color, no matter what cost or drawback is completely broken and will ruin the game as we know it.
Strong words, sure, but the past has proven this to be correct.
This card simply shows naivete in regards to Magic design. Study your history, young padawan
Nothing's wrong with fast mana. Dark Ritual caused over-powering cards on turn 1 but that's as far as it went. There's a difference between broken and over-powering. This was the latter and if the card was broken it wouldn't have been reprinted around 15 or so times. I don't see anything wrong with blood ritual.
The OP obviously never played when desperate ritual was in standard either.Then add stuff like Lava Spike & Glacial Ray to the mix.Without even splicing it's possible to deal 9 to the face on 2nd turn.
Desperate ritual was only being played in turn 5 Obliterate decks.
Why not just reprint Seething Song instead of trying to reintroduce a pseudo-Dark Ritual back into the game?
Dark Ritual is tolerable in eternal formats because there is a comparable amount of speed and stuff like Force of Will keeps combo/fast aggro decks from going bananas. In Type 2, it would overcentralize the metagame so bad because Type 2 just cannot handle such speed.
im sorry but the years of dark ritual were awesome years, but there were many more answers to a first turn negator/rain of tears or whatever, there was force spike, force of will, daze, orim's chant (awesome way to stop the black player from a great first turn and causing 3 mana burn :D), some decks could even play a counterspell on the first turn.
Things have changed now and first turns are most of the time skipped or a figure of destiny/thoughtseize gets played, most control decks dont have answers for the first 2 turns and only a few have some answers in extended.
i would like to see this card get printed as this:
Blood Ritual R
Sorcery
Blood Ritual Deals 3 Damage to you. Any player may have Blood Ritual deal 3 damage to him or her. If no one does, add RRR to your mana pool.
black is only run for its 1 mana specific discards and a certain confidant.
and its 2 mana hand disruption, and land disruption, and its godly monsters such as tombstalker... and so on so forth etc etc etc et al... yeah Black is hardly a non-competitive color, at least in Legacy anyways...
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"As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero." -- Varsuvius, Order of the Stick
While I certainly hold with the majority opinion in this thread, I might point out that PtE's drawback might actually work to at least offer answers. That is,
R
Add RRR to your mana pool. Each opponent may search his deck for a basic land, reveal it, and put it into play (tapped). Each player who did this then shuffles their library.
Also, on Gouger vs. Ram-Gang, I'll note that Ram-Gang does its damage faster, and until the 5th turn does more damage than Gouger. Therefore, if you wanted to put pressure on your opponent, Ram-Gang might be superior as an option. By way of comparison, it's more fragile.
Busted plays? Get a grip. Dark Ritual is not responsible for Will, Bargain and Necro. Beside those three cards Dark Ritual was hardly a gamecrashing powerhouse. 1st turn Gougers are not that scary at all.
damn! what game are you playing when you can say that a first turn gouger is not scary at all! With a 1st turn gouger it backs up almost all colors in a corner by being on the defensive til turn 4 or so. the only card that can possibly save you from at least 8 damage would be burrenton forge-tender.
Yes, powerful cards made dark ritual better but it worked both ways, just ask hypnotic specter.
Blood Ritual R
Instant/Sorcery
Add RRR to your mana pool.
Blood Ritual deals 3 damage to you.
You're essentially bleeding yourself dry to get more mana.
Players have been waiting for a similar card forever now.
It's actually an oncolor ability and very thematic. The whole lose three life fits in perfectly. And it would see play in legacy burn, and in other formats, but it wouldn't break anything. The loss of life drawback can be significant, and red isn't all that powerful a color.
Players have also forever been waiting for a 2cc decent counterspell for White so that it works with Isochron Scepter.
Originally, they were going to print a white Memory Lapse in Planar Choas, but they instead printed Lapse of Uncertainity now and stomped all over the dreams of us Iscohron Scepter players everywhere.
If Lapse of Certainity was 1W. Or hell, if Negate was 1W, it would have really pleased Isochron Scepter players without hurting magic.
When is Wizards going to get around to printing these cards?
Are there any other cards that people have been waiting forever to to see Wizards finally print? Name them. (I would love to see a black or white or green 1cc Stifle as well).
Are you stupid? Red dark ritual -> A BIG NO.
This is beyond stupid broken. Combo deck lose 3 life ---> they win anyway.
This should be usable only to cast creature, but then, it wouldn't be red in flavor. A card like this would be much more in flavor with red:
Crazyfire Ritual - R
Sorcery
Discard a card at random from your hand.
Add RRR to your mana pool.
Rite of Flame was a great power level, it was only busted in one deck because there was a certain storm spell in Standard and 2 other free mana spells (Seething, Bloom). I think one aggressively costed accel spell in Standard would be acceptable, but not with a 3 life drawback. The punisher, random discard, and land sac would all be good drawbacks for that level of power.
Magic went years with people playing first turn Negators and Hyppes off of Dark Ritual. It made magic more fun, it pleased the inner johnny in a lot of players.
And this was back when removal sucked, back when Terror was a tier one card that every black deck played.
.
Swords to plowshares took care of any kind of this tom foolery back in the day, right up until 4ed. Lightning bolt was there until 4ed.
But, besides the point, dark ritual is mostly dangerous in duplicates. Ask any alpha player how they felt about a turn one ritual,ritual, sengir vampire. Even IF that cost them 6 life
Yeaaaaah no... the only way they'd print a straight up R->RRR ritual is something akin to:
Madman's Rite R
Instant
Add RRR to your mana pool.
Spells you play this turn have "Discard a card: Counter this spell. Any player may play this ability but only if Madman's Rite is on the stack."
Dark Ritual was reprinted over and over again for 8 years nonstop, and it saw play, but it didn't break magic. This is gimped. It's both a sorcery and it costs you a 1/6th of your life total. And black is a significantly more powerful color than red.
Dark Ritual flirted with banned/restricted lists for years and stopped being reprinted because of it (despite being one of the more iconic spells in the game and part of the original boon cycle).
Given the kind of mana accelration Red combo already plays, this would definitely see play (and be powerful). To any kind of deck which cares about this, the 3 life is not a drawback, it won't matter before they've either won or are out of gas anyway.
It's not too powerful to print because of Extended (probably) though, but because of Standard. I can't think of many recent Standard environments where this kind of acceleration wouldn't be busted.
land, rite, rite (get -6 life), cast hunted dragon and attack to let your opponent gets -6 life too... then he has 3 soldier -.- and you still need a pyroclasm
R spell for RRR is so good that even if the drawback was to pay half your life round up it would still be broken, especially given the fact that there are already several variations of other red rituals in existence to really juice up red-based storm combo.
I can see a spell like it if the drawback was Final Fortune-esque to prevent abuse except at a very narrow and specific point in the game (i.e. win this turn without fizzling).
In the end we end up trying to put big drawbacks on a card that isn't really needed right now... half your life rounded up? why would they want to print a card like that? unless red was in a position that it really needed a boost to become competitive..
See, the key is that you mentioned "isn't really needed right now". You never "need" another Dark Ritual type card because they are too good, so the point is moot.
In fact, I think if Wizards does print another ritual-type card, they would print it in a set/block when its effect would have the least impact in Standard. They will not want to have rituals in a Standard environment with storm anymore, for example. They just made that mistake 2-3 years ago. If Wizards does print another ritual, they will probably try to sneak it by the Type 2 crowd.
Dark Ritual flirted with banned/restricted lists for years and stopped being reprinted because of it (despite being one of the more iconic spells in the game and part of the original boon cycle).
It was eventually banned in Extended, wasn't it? Around the time of Odyssey?
Add to your mana pool for each point of damage you took this turn.
Not the easiest thing to break in the world, but most of the temptation to try remains.
volcano helion, deal 19 to yourself, then kill them with burn spells.
Pain lands make lightning fast plays possible
char
orcish artilery
mana clash
the card needs something that has a limit of a resource that builds up as the game goes on, not diminishes. i could see something along the lines of R add R to your mana pool for each basic mountain you control, but life will not be able to be a resource for mana without seriously taking a lot of health with it
volcano helion, deal 19 to yourself, then kill them with burn spells.
Pain lands make lightning fast plays possible
char
orcish artilery
mana clash
the card needs something that has a limit of a resource that builds up as the game goes on, not diminishes. i could see something along the lines of R add R to your mana pool for each basic mountain you control, but life will not be able to be a resource for mana without seriously taking a lot of health with it
Lol. Just... lol. Okay, the MOST feasible one you mentioned, pain lands.
So, you'd have to have two pain lands to make it a basicRite of Flame. Three pains make it the card suggested in the first post that's only castable on turn three onwards.
Now, it seems it MIGHT be good. But beside such 'gems' as "volcano hellion yourself for nineteen, this, banefire", you really need to develop your understaning of the term 'broken'.
Oh, in b4 "they might make a card in the future that would make this version of blood ritual broken".
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Thats a good card.Keeps with reds "Do now think later...maybe." emotions.And keeps from being degenerate like DR was.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Desperate ritual was only being played in turn 5 Obliterate decks.
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
Dark Ritual is tolerable in eternal formats because there is a comparable amount of speed and stuff like Force of Will keeps combo/fast aggro decks from going bananas. In Type 2, it would overcentralize the metagame so bad because Type 2 just cannot handle such speed.
Things have changed now and first turns are most of the time skipped or a figure of destiny/thoughtseize gets played, most control decks dont have answers for the first 2 turns and only a few have some answers in extended.
i would like to see this card get printed as this:
Blood Ritual R
Sorcery
Blood Ritual Deals 3 Damage to you. Any player may have Blood Ritual deal 3 damage to him or her. If no one does, add RRR to your mana pool.
and its 2 mana hand disruption, and land disruption, and its godly monsters such as tombstalker... and so on so forth etc etc etc et al... yeah Black is hardly a non-competitive color, at least in Legacy anyways...
R
Add RRR to your mana pool. Each opponent may search his deck for a basic land, reveal it, and put it into play (tapped). Each player who did this then shuffles their library.
Also, on Gouger vs. Ram-Gang, I'll note that Ram-Gang does its damage faster, and until the 5th turn does more damage than Gouger. Therefore, if you wanted to put pressure on your opponent, Ram-Gang might be superior as an option. By way of comparison, it's more fragile.
damn! what game are you playing when you can say that a first turn gouger is not scary at all! With a 1st turn gouger it backs up almost all colors in a corner by being on the defensive til turn 4 or so. the only card that can possibly save you from at least 8 damage would be burrenton forge-tender.
Yes, powerful cards made dark ritual better but it worked both ways, just ask hypnotic specter.
Blood Ritual
R
As an additional cost to play blood ritual, discard a card at random.
Add RRR to your mana pool.
Are you stupid? Red dark ritual -> A BIG NO.
This is beyond stupid broken. Combo deck lose 3 life ---> they win anyway.
This should be usable only to cast creature, but then, it wouldn't be red in flavor. A card like this would be much more in flavor with red:
Crazyfire Ritual - R
Sorcery
Discard a card at random from your hand.
Add RRR to your mana pool.
THAT would push RDW, yeah.
EDIT: same idea as the guy above me, lol
Swords to plowshares took care of any kind of this tom foolery back in the day, right up until 4ed. Lightning bolt was there until 4ed.
But, besides the point, dark ritual is mostly dangerous in duplicates. Ask any alpha player how they felt about a turn one ritual,ritual, sengir vampire. Even IF that cost them 6 life
Madman's Rite R
Instant
Add RRR to your mana pool.
Spells you play this turn have "Discard a card: Counter this spell. Any player may play this ability but only if Madman's Rite is on the stack."
Yes that is how that should be templated.
Dark Ritual flirted with banned/restricted lists for years and stopped being reprinted because of it (despite being one of the more iconic spells in the game and part of the original boon cycle).
Given the kind of mana accelration Red combo already plays, this would definitely see play (and be powerful). To any kind of deck which cares about this, the 3 life is not a drawback, it won't matter before they've either won or are out of gas anyway.
It's not too powerful to print because of Extended (probably) though, but because of Standard. I can't think of many recent Standard environments where this kind of acceleration wouldn't be busted.
land, rite, rite (get -6 life), cast hunted dragon and attack to let your opponent gets -6 life too... then he has 3 soldier -.- and you still need a pyroclasm
... of course instant.
H/W - Website
I can see a spell like it if the drawback was Final Fortune-esque to prevent abuse except at a very narrow and specific point in the game (i.e. win this turn without fizzling).
"empy the stack and the storm count after that"
so it can be used also to prevent storms from tendrils/brainfreeze decks!!! It could be a great idea!!!
H/W - Website
In fact, I think if Wizards does print another ritual-type card, they would print it in a set/block when its effect would have the least impact in Standard. They will not want to have rituals in a Standard environment with storm anymore, for example. They just made that mistake 2-3 years ago. If Wizards does print another ritual, they will probably try to sneak it by the Type 2 crowd.
It was eventually banned in Extended, wasn't it? Around the time of Odyssey?
Blood Ritual
Sorcery
Add to your mana pool for each point of damage you took this turn.
Not the easiest thing to break in the world, but most of the temptation to try remains.
volcano helion, deal 19 to yourself, then kill them with burn spells.
Pain lands make lightning fast plays possible
char
orcish artilery
mana clash
the card needs something that has a limit of a resource that builds up as the game goes on, not diminishes. i could see something along the lines of R add R to your mana pool for each basic mountain you control, but life will not be able to be a resource for mana without seriously taking a lot of health with it
Lol. Just... lol. Okay, the MOST feasible one you mentioned, pain lands.
So, you'd have to have two pain lands to make it a basicRite of Flame. Three pains make it the card suggested in the first post that's only castable on turn three onwards.
Now, it seems it MIGHT be good. But beside such 'gems' as "volcano hellion yourself for nineteen, this, banefire", you really need to develop your understaning of the term 'broken'.
Oh, in b4 "they might make a card in the future that would make this version of blood ritual broken".