Paying that much money is something many players, myself included, do not want to, ore even can't, do. While they are not as good as some of the cards available, they are quite viable options.
Try more like.... 4X Underground Sea ~$80-100,
4X Watery Grave ~$32-40
4X Underground River ~$16-24
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Actually, I think omitting the pain lands from 10th would be a good idea. I like the idea of including the rav duals into the core set, as it would probably mean they would go down in price if only by a dollar or two. Also, I really think there are too many land options in standard. Decks could run just fine without pains.
Also, basing on what someone else said, OD fetches coming back would be absolutely sick. With duals and fetches, things could get really ugly, even if there aren't any of them for enemy colors
I don't forsee any changup to different multilands. I'd like to see fewer by a large margin, but I doubt that we'll see shocklands in core any time soon. Especially since they were just printed.
The next big step in multilands I forsee is enemy colored fetchlands. They get around to enemy colors sooner or later, and it's high time for these cards to be printed (in an expansion set of course).
the generic naming is actually a plus for rav duals to be reprinted. one of the main reason i remember for the generic naming (pls correct me if i'm wrong here) is for the beginners. core set is the ideal thing to buy if you are a beginner, and wizards was hesitant about reprinting painlands because they had specific references that beginners wouldn't really know about. a newbie actually asked me why adarkar wastes is W/U...
for me, there should be a set of multicolored lands in the 10th. they are essential for beginners to promote deck building so they could expand their theme decks (which they would very likely buy as their first deck) into different colors. duals just make it easy to add another color to a deck. but as for the price and the willingness of a beginner to spend, that's another thing... any dual in the core, for me, will do (although i'm hoping it would be the shocklands since i have a set of each dual)
I think a likely scenario is that the painlands will be out in tenth edition and the ally dual lands will be reprinted. That way you get the best of both worlds. You get the the 2-colour fixing for ally colours and you keep the really nice duals around for two more years.
Though hopefully, the next gold-heavy set will see the return of the fetch lands and the enemy colour fetch lands.
The Ice Age painlands used to be worth well over $10, but you'd be hard pressed to pay more than $4-6 for one today. If the shocklands from RAV block gets reprinted I can see this happening too. Falling below $10, maybe to $7 or so.
I think Wizards would sell alot of 10th if this was the case
Multicolor will be on it's way out when 10th rolls around with Rav due to rotate out shortly after 10th is released. I think we will see the shocks again but it will in 11th or 12th when a new multicolor is is about due.
I think the Rav karoo's could show up as uncommons in 10th.
Multicolor will be on it's way out when 10th rolls around with Rav due to rotate out shortly after 10th is released. I think we will see the shocks again but it will in 11th or 12th when a new multicolor is is about due.
I think the Rav karoo's could show up as uncommons in 10th.
the karoo lands will not make it dew to the fact that thay have spicfic names
Elspeth "we must fight to protect order and justice!"
Tezzeret "No! he will break all my artifacts and stomp my head!"
Vol "powerful dragon must be brought to heel!"
Ajani "**** this Im outta *planeswalks to lorwyn* wow what hell is this place?"
Little lorwyn goblin "this be the place of bad art and Tribes!!!"
All other Alara planeswalkers "hey where did ajani go???"
Adarkar Wastes, Kami of Old Stone, Leonin Skyhunter are all different planes. Names aren't that big a deal for Core Sets.
Actually names are important in the base set. WotC likes to limit the number of setting specific names in the base set, that is why cards like Mending Hands are printed in expert-level sets as plants for the core set. It could have easily been called Lord Konda's Shaving Cream or something, but it was given a very general name on purpose.
If you knew nothing about the game and were a first time buyer and opened a pack that had those three cards in it, you would see two creatures with interesting names and pretty general flavor text. Those two creatures have nothing in their flavor text that evokes anything specific about a setting, there is no mention of anything specific like Lord Konda or Kamigawa in the Kami's flavor text and there is no mention of Mirrodin or similar things in teh Leonin's flavor text.
Compare that to Adarkar Wastes. Assuming that the viewer is understands that Adarkar is a proper noun and none an adjective like "Empty Wastes" or "Scorched Wastes," then the viewer has no idea about what Adarkar is or was or anything about it. Compare that to Hallowed Fountain, which has a very neutral name, just like all of the other Ravnica duals.
The big unanswered question is whether evocative, but unexplained, names are good or bad for the core set and judging by the large majority of neutral names in the core set, I would say that WotC likes to limit the number of specific names on purpose.
Adarkar is actually a person, not a place. Skaff Elias's friend Aditya Adarkar is the muse responsible for the word (obviously her last name). I see no problem with reprinting this, the connotation that it has anything to do with Dominaria's Ice Age is a misnomer. It's also why I get irritated when people pronounce it "Add-a-car." One of my many Magic pet peeves.
So the specific Core Set card named "Adarkar Wastes" is a direct reference to Ms. Adarkar?
Yes. And it isn't alone in its origin. Many of the early sets were littered with cards referencing specific people. Sol Ring refers to Sol Malka, and Nevinyrral's Disk is actually Larry Nevin's Disk. Maro is MaRo (duh), and the list can continue. Adarkar has been adapted into the Magic storyline as a place, but it is, in reality, a person. Perhaps misnomer was a harsh word to use, but as I said, it's a pet peeve of mine.
I don't see how naming Adarkar Wastes after a person makes it any less of a Dominarian location. That's like saying that Washington isn't a state because it was named after the first U.S. president.
Actually names are important in the base set. WotC likes to limit the number of setting specific names in the base set, that is why cards like Mending Hands are printed in expert-level sets as plants for the core set. It could have easily been called Lord Konda's Shaving Cream or something, but it was given a very general name on purpose.
Listing examples of general names does not invalidate examples of specific names. Yes, they do like to give general names to general effects, but it has little if anything to do with whether the card will appear in a core set (I say little rather than nothing because if there are two functionally identical cards and they want to reprint one, the one with a more general name is more likely to be reprinted). The reason they do this is to make the card easier to identify. Sure, Lord Konda's Shaving Cream could have been a staple in 12th Edition standard, but it's easier if staples have simple names. More elegant, easier to remember, who cares? The point is, they do not cut any mechanics from the core set simply because "They had a specific name". It is something they like to keep in mind, but it has no effect on the end result (beyond a creature type here, or a sorcery rather than an instant there).
If you knew nothing about the game and were a first time buyer and opened a pack that had those three cards in it, you would see two creatures with interesting names and pretty general flavor text. Those two creatures have nothing in their flavor text that evokes anything specific about a setting, there is no mention of anything specific like Lord Konda or Kamigawa in the Kami's flavor text and there is no mention of Mirrodin or similar things in teh Leonin's flavor text.
Snow-Fur, Kitsune poet could be anyone, of course. I think you're drawing an arbitrary line. If you knew nothing about the game, the name "Kami of Old Stone" would be lost on you. But who cares? Newcomers aren't required to know what the settings of these particular cards are. Even old players aren't required to know. Indeed, the idea of flavour is supposed to convey a piece of the setting.
Compare that to Adarkar Wastes. Assuming that the viewer is understands that Adarkar is a proper noun and none an adjective like "Empty Wastes" or "Scorched Wastes," then the viewer has no idea about what Adarkar is or was or anything about it. Compare that to Hallowed Fountain, which has a very neutral name, just like all of the other Ravnica duals.
And yet, as of right now Adarkar Wastes has been reprinted in a core set and Hallowed Fountain has not. And why? Because it has the effect that they were looking for. I can't really see how you expect this to help your argument. They did reprint Adarkar Wastes despite the fact that it has a general name. It's really that simple.
The big unanswered question is whether evocative, but unexplained, names are good or bad for the core set and judging by the large majority of neutral names in the core set, I would say that WotC likes to limit the number of specific names on purpose.
They may do, but not at the expense of mechanics. When they make a core set plant, they often give it a general name because they like staples (which is what most core set plants are) to have general names, and so that if they so desire it can be reprinted at an expert level at some point (as many staples have been). Furthurmore, there are all the specific names that you convieniantly ignore or unsatisfactorally explain away. A single case in which your theory is false invalidates thousands in which your theory is true. They clearly do not cut cards from the core set based solely on their name. The fact that these cards exist at all demonstrates this!
Adarkar is actually a person, not a place. Skaff Elias's friend Aditya Adarkar is the muse responsible for the word (obviously her last name). I see no problem with reprinting this, the connotation that it has anything to do with Dominaria's Ice Age is a misnomer. It's also why I get irritated when people pronounce it "Add-a-car." One of my many Magic pet peeves.
The Adarkar Wastes are a fictional place in the south(?) of Ice Age Terisiare. Aditya Adarkar is a person. What do you mean by "Adarkar is actually a person, not a place"? Also, how is Adarkar pronounced?
Ah, Sarnath'd by bmattox.
And yet, as of right now Adarkar Wastes has been reprinted in a core set and Hallowed Fountain has not. And why? Because it has the effect that they were looking for. I can't really see how you expect this to help your argument. They did reprint Adarkar Wastes despite the fact that it has a general name. It's really that simple.
Umm... could it be that Hallowed Fountain hasn't been in print when a core set came out yet? I don't see how a less powerful effect gets the affect they want in this case, as the increased playing around multicolored sets seems to indicate that multicolored is a fun theme, and more powerful multicolor lands would make this easier.
Umm... could it be that Hallowed Fountain hasn't been in print when a core set came out yet?
That is why Hallowed Fountain has not been reprinted, but it is not why Adarkar Wastes has. They didn't sit around in 5th Edition development and say "Damn, I wish we'd printed Hallowed Fountain already. Adarkar Wastes has such a specific name! Oh well, I guess we have no choice."
I don't see how a less powerful effect gets the affect they want in this case, as the increased playing around multicolored sets seems to indicate that multicolored is a fun theme, and more powerful multicolor lands would make this easier.
And it will be for this reason, not because of the name, that the shocklands will appear in a core set eventually.
Adarkar is actually a person, not a place. Skaff Elias's friend Aditya Adarkar is the muse responsible for the word (obviously her last name). I see no problem with reprinting this, the connotation that it has anything to do with Dominaria's Ice Age is a misnomer. It's also why I get irritated when people pronounce it "Add-a-car." One of my many Magic pet peeves.
On topic: Will the Nuals be reprinted? My answer is a resounding "Hell yes!" It will be a good reason for Magic veterans to by Xth, and WizCo knows it.
Wizards has stated that the shocklands were generically named beacause they would definately see print again. Would you draft XXX without them? I won't. With them? Yes. I've only got 14 now. I want the 40.
I've also heard murmurs that they won't be rare, but I doubt that. Perhaps we'll see bouncelands or painlands at uncommon as well. I don't see any need for manabases to cost so much and I recall MaRo expressing something similar. Guess we'll see next August.
Wizards has stated that the shocklands were generically named beacause they would definately see print again. Would you draft XXX without them? I won't. With them? Yes. I've only got 14 now. I want the 40.
I've also heard murmurs that they won't be rare, but I doubt that. Perhaps we'll see bouncelands or painlands at uncommon as well. I don't see any need for manabases to cost so much and I recall MaRo expressing something similar. Guess we'll see next August.
If any number of Ravnica duals are being reprinted in a core set, the painlands are obviously not coming back. Uncommon karoos are possible, although in a core set with Ravnica duals, the emphasis on non-basic lands would be well in excess of what Wizards has done before. Since Mind Stone is in, Fellwar Stone is most likely gone. This leaves no colored artifact mana available. I'd guess we're probably looking at either uncommon allied-color signets, Mirrodin talismans, or as an insane longshot, reprinted Mirage comes-into-play-tapped fetchlands and either Fellwar Stone or some decent, new colored artifact mana in the 2007 large expansion.
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Yes. And it isn't alone in its origin. Many of the early sets were littered with cards referencing specific people. Sol Ring refers to Sol Malka, and Nevinyrral's Disk is actually Larry Nevin's Disk. Maro is MaRo (duh), and the list can continue. Adarkar has been adapted into the Magic storyline as a place, but it is, in reality, a person. Perhaps misnomer was a harsh word to use, but as I said, it's a pet peeve of mine.
lol, Sol Ring does not refer to Sol Malka (he only really made his name in the game towards the end of Urza's Block's release)....
Sol also means Sun...Sol Ring means Sun Ring....or something equivalent.
Just FYI, three years from now (Summer 2009) should be the release of 11th. Unless they change their release schedule, Wizards should be releasing 13th in Summer 2013.
Yes, I think it might be that long (12th to 13th) before all the Ravi duals are back. It was a pretty good while between when Invasion did the non-allied pain lands and when the non-allied pain lands show up in 9th ed.
Wizards has stated that the shocklands were generically named beacause they would definately see print again.
They were generically named so that they could see print in an expert level expansion if the need arose. As has been detailed throughout this thread. The names have absolutely nothing to do with the likelihood that they will appear in a core set.
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Try more like.... 4X Underground Sea ~$80-100,
4X Watery Grave ~$32-40
4X Underground River ~$16-24
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Also, basing on what someone else said, OD fetches coming back would be absolutely sick. With duals and fetches, things could get really ugly, even if there aren't any of them for enemy colors
The next big step in multilands I forsee is enemy colored fetchlands. They get around to enemy colors sooner or later, and it's high time for these cards to be printed (in an expansion set of course).
for me, there should be a set of multicolored lands in the 10th. they are essential for beginners to promote deck building so they could expand their theme decks (which they would very likely buy as their first deck) into different colors. duals just make it easy to add another color to a deck. but as for the price and the willingness of a beginner to spend, that's another thing... any dual in the core, for me, will do (although i'm hoping it would be the shocklands since i have a set of each dual)
Though hopefully, the next gold-heavy set will see the return of the fetch lands and the enemy colour fetch lands.
I think Wizards would sell alot of 10th if this was the case
I think the Rav karoo's could show up as uncommons in 10th.
the karoo lands will not make it dew to the fact that thay have spicfic names
Adarkar Wastes isn't a specific name now?
Adarkar Wastes, Kami of Old Stone, Leonin Skyhunter are all different planes. Names aren't that big a deal (if they care about names) for Core Sets
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Actually names are important in the base set. WotC likes to limit the number of setting specific names in the base set, that is why cards like Mending Hands are printed in expert-level sets as plants for the core set. It could have easily been called Lord Konda's Shaving Cream or something, but it was given a very general name on purpose.
If you knew nothing about the game and were a first time buyer and opened a pack that had those three cards in it, you would see two creatures with interesting names and pretty general flavor text. Those two creatures have nothing in their flavor text that evokes anything specific about a setting, there is no mention of anything specific like Lord Konda or Kamigawa in the Kami's flavor text and there is no mention of Mirrodin or similar things in teh Leonin's flavor text.
Compare that to Adarkar Wastes. Assuming that the viewer is understands that Adarkar is a proper noun and none an adjective like "Empty Wastes" or "Scorched Wastes," then the viewer has no idea about what Adarkar is or was or anything about it. Compare that to Hallowed Fountain, which has a very neutral name, just like all of the other Ravnica duals.
The big unanswered question is whether evocative, but unexplained, names are good or bad for the core set and judging by the large majority of neutral names in the core set, I would say that WotC likes to limit the number of specific names on purpose.
Listing examples of general names does not invalidate examples of specific names. Yes, they do like to give general names to general effects, but it has little if anything to do with whether the card will appear in a core set (I say little rather than nothing because if there are two functionally identical cards and they want to reprint one, the one with a more general name is more likely to be reprinted). The reason they do this is to make the card easier to identify. Sure, Lord Konda's Shaving Cream could have been a staple in 12th Edition standard, but it's easier if staples have simple names. More elegant, easier to remember, who cares? The point is, they do not cut any mechanics from the core set simply because "They had a specific name". It is something they like to keep in mind, but it has no effect on the end result (beyond a creature type here, or a sorcery rather than an instant there).
Snow-Fur, Kitsune poet could be anyone, of course. I think you're drawing an arbitrary line. If you knew nothing about the game, the name "Kami of Old Stone" would be lost on you. But who cares? Newcomers aren't required to know what the settings of these particular cards are. Even old players aren't required to know. Indeed, the idea of flavour is supposed to convey a piece of the setting.
And yet, as of right now Adarkar Wastes has been reprinted in a core set and Hallowed Fountain has not. And why? Because it has the effect that they were looking for. I can't really see how you expect this to help your argument. They did reprint Adarkar Wastes despite the fact that it has a general name. It's really that simple.
They may do, but not at the expense of mechanics. When they make a core set plant, they often give it a general name because they like staples (which is what most core set plants are) to have general names, and so that if they so desire it can be reprinted at an expert level at some point (as many staples have been). Furthurmore, there are all the specific names that you convieniantly ignore or unsatisfactorally explain away. A single case in which your theory is false invalidates thousands in which your theory is true. They clearly do not cut cards from the core set based solely on their name. The fact that these cards exist at all demonstrates this!
The Adarkar Wastes are a fictional place in the south(?) of Ice Age Terisiare. Aditya Adarkar is a person. What do you mean by "Adarkar is actually a person, not a place"? Also, how is Adarkar pronounced?
Ah, Sarnath'd by bmattox.
Umm... could it be that Hallowed Fountain hasn't been in print when a core set came out yet? I don't see how a less powerful effect gets the affect they want in this case, as the increased playing around multicolored sets seems to indicate that multicolored is a fun theme, and more powerful multicolor lands would make this easier.
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That is why Hallowed Fountain has not been reprinted, but it is not why Adarkar Wastes has. They didn't sit around in 5th Edition development and say "Damn, I wish we'd printed Hallowed Fountain already. Adarkar Wastes has such a specific name! Oh well, I guess we have no choice."
And it will be for this reason, not because of the name, that the shocklands will appear in a core set eventually.
Actually Adarkar is a place named after a person (Aditya Adarkar). Where do you think the Adarkar Sentinels, Adarkar Windforms and Adarkar Valkyries live?
On topic: Will the Nuals be reprinted? My answer is a resounding "Hell yes!" It will be a good reason for Magic veterans to by Xth, and WizCo knows it.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
I've also heard murmurs that they won't be rare, but I doubt that. Perhaps we'll see bouncelands or painlands at uncommon as well. I don't see any need for manabases to cost so much and I recall MaRo expressing something similar. Guess we'll see next August.
If any number of Ravnica duals are being reprinted in a core set, the painlands are obviously not coming back. Uncommon karoos are possible, although in a core set with Ravnica duals, the emphasis on non-basic lands would be well in excess of what Wizards has done before. Since Mind Stone is in, Fellwar Stone is most likely gone. This leaves no colored artifact mana available. I'd guess we're probably looking at either uncommon allied-color signets, Mirrodin talismans, or as an insane longshot, reprinted Mirage comes-into-play-tapped fetchlands and either Fellwar Stone or some decent, new colored artifact mana in the 2007 large expansion.
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lol, Sol Ring does not refer to Sol Malka (he only really made his name in the game towards the end of Urza's Block's release)....
Sol also means Sun...Sol Ring means Sun Ring....or something equivalent.
Yes, I think it might be that long (12th to 13th) before all the Ravi duals are back. It was a pretty good while between when Invasion did the non-allied pain lands and when the non-allied pain lands show up in 9th ed.
They were generically named so that they could see print in an expert level expansion if the need arose. As has been detailed throughout this thread. The names have absolutely nothing to do with the likelihood that they will appear in a core set.