the thing that drew me to MTG was the intellect required to play it. I will always play magic...but its getting to the point to where i'm losing faith in it. on top of that i wanna wipe the **** eating smile off of Mark Rosewaters face lol.
i hear you man. i'm really not a fan of the way they are moving magic. control is ceasing to exist, playable combo is out. its turned into aggro vs tempo vs mid-range
standard is boring as hell, and modern is pretty lame too. i'm playing edh and legacy, with some limited too
May want to wait until the set is spoiled, rather than less than half (not including lands)
So far, every guild is getting the shaft, there aren't very many playable cards spoiled so far. maybe 4-5.
And here I was thinking the guy telling Dimir lovers not to complain because one of the Dimir rares is good in limited was going to be the silliest person in the thread.
And here I was thinking the guy telling Dimir lovers not to complain because one of the Dimir rares is good in limited was going to be the silliest person in the thread.
Not sure I follow. I didn't say anything inaccurate.
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Standard:
Bident Layers B Devotion RG Devotion UW Control Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod Legacy: DeathBlade RUG Delver BUG Control
The overall power level of this set and of any of the guilds isn't high. Dimir has Notion Thief and Far // Away both solid cards which should see play, the other guilds only have 2-4 cards of comparable or higher levels of playability a piece so far from Dimir being shafted it's pretty even and if just 1-3 more playable Dimir cards are released Dimir will be right up there.
the thing that drew me to MTG was the intellect required to play it
You know, playing blue cards doesn't make you smart.. tell me how much smarter you have to be playing a blue-black deck than playing a jund or naya deck. I'll just wait, this is gonna be good.
You know, playing blue cards doesn't make you smart.. tell me how much smarter you have to be playing a blue-black deck than playing a jund or naya deck. I'll just wait, this is gonna be good.
In a blue-black deck, you don't cast the creature in your hand and then rotate it 90 degrees every turn like the mindless naya or jund decks. You think about when you should drop that Liliana. Or is that spell worth countering? Do I use my removal spell here? One critical mistake from a control deck will lose its pilot the game. One critical mistake from the aggro decks in standard mean nothing for its pilot.
And that is why dimir should not be shafted, but it was because Wizards hates control and wants everyone who wants to think while playing magic to quit because we are the minority and make little Timmy rage and quit when he gets his primordial hydra killed or countered.
The only good "Dimir" card is Nephalia drowyard and in a proper control deck its all you need to mill people.
Why are there no good Dimir gold cards?...
Lazav I guess isn't the worst card in the world except the last thing you want in a control deck is variability and something that unpredicatable.
I went... I saw the Dmir mythic.
Changes nothing really.
Lets for a second that there's no slaughter games in the format costing 4.
Lets further assume that the Dimir mythic was something truly format defining (it isn't)
In the vacancy of lots of other cards Dmir 1 awesome card likely isn't enough to make the
players NOT feel hosed.
Reap the intellect existing with sphinxes revelation in the same format means the "X" slot is filled.
Most of the time....
It's frustrating to always have people complain when things change in magic, even if they're positive changes. Magic being more creature based and a whole lot less based on whether or not your control deck can hit a turn 4 wrath is in no way a good thing, and it makes games much less dumbed down.
Still, with esper control - a very grindy deck that very rarely wins with damage and is more of a traditional control deck than the old control decks that people complain are gone - being a tier 1 deck, I can't even see this complaint having any validity. Draw-go is clearly just fine.
Whenever I hear playing a creature deck described as "turning cards mindlessly sideways" I know that the person never actually plays aggressive decks and has no understanding of how combat works.
I agree, but I tend to think: "I'm talking to a bad magic player".
TravisWoo... I hope you're not really him, or but that in your sig, because with all the press he gets, you're shaming his name.
The idea that "Only x decktype requires thought" is idiocy.
If you think "aggro is mindless" its because you're "Playing it mindless" and that implies you're probably pretty bad at it.
I don't know "HOW bad but the sad thing is I know that on some level these people are implying: Poker is harder than chess.
When I sit down to pilot an aggro deck I'm playing chess (if facing another aggro deck)
When playing control against another control deck I'm playing poker. . . (all about reads and tells)
If I'm aggro playing against control... and the card pools are equal, one of our decks isn't going to be able to do its job. Life reduction or Stabilizing.
That probably makes it feel mindless when you get bowled over by aggro but.. good aggro keeps you from stabilizing or kills you anyway after you think you've stabilized.
It isn't mindless but its a very honest matchup for both players. The rest of the gibberish you spit is a good reason control should never return to power, it breeds elitism in a lot of people. Which any game is better off without.
It's hard to say that control is dead with cards like Supreme Verdict and Sphinx's Revelation around. Granted, those are U/W not U/B. I won't disagree that Dimir got the short in of the stick here, but I don't think that control really got worse. Sure, we don't have Counterspell anymore, but we have some really solid control cards. No, the problem isn't that control is bad, it is that creatures are really really good. And that isn't really a "problem". Turning a bunch of 1 drops sideways is waaaaaay different from turning a Thragtusk and and Angel of Serenity sideways. Sure you are winning with creatures, but old-school control decks won with Serra Angel and Rainbow Efreet.
Was it really necessary to start a second thread devoted to the same topic?
This....
But on the topic of turning magic into a creature based game: Flashback one year ago. What was the top deck to beat? Delver was not an aggro deck (I didn't play Delver or know much about it, but I could say that it was anything but ballz to the wallz aggro). Flash back one year before that. What was that top deck: Caw-Blade that ran 4 birds and 4 Stoneforges. I think this more creature heavy meta now is a good thing. Personally, I hated when every deck at FNM was either caw-blade or delver (depending on the year). Yes there are more aggro decks, but Naya and Jund Midranges still exist and there is a large diversity of decks instead of one deck dominating the whole meta (at least for standard). Just my 2 cents.
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But on the topic of turning magic into a creature based game: Flashback one year ago. What was the top deck to beat? Delver was not an aggro deck (I didn't play Delver or know much about it, but I could say that it was anything but ballz to the wallz aggro). Flash back one year before that. What was that top deck: Caw-Blade that ran 4 birds and 4 Stoneforges. I think this more creature heavy meta now is a good thing. Personally, I hated when every deck at FNM was either caw-blade or delver (depending on the year). Yes there are more aggro decks, but Naya and Jund Midranges still exist and there is a large diversity of decks instead of one deck dominating the whole meta (at least for standard). Just my 2 cents.
Kind of makes you think, doesn't it? Blue-White dominated Standard for close to 2 years with decks that ran 20-30 instants and sorceries and only 8-16 creatures. All of a sudden, the mix switches a little bit and it's the end of the world.
Looking back, we've had some good shifts in the dominant decks in Standard.
- UB Faeries (blue-based)
- Jund (anti-blue)
- Caw Blade (white-based with blue backup)
- UW Delver (blue-based)
- Various aggro/midrange decks, most of which have green (anti-blue)
Whenever I hear playing a creature deck described as "turning cards mindlessly sideways" I know that the person never actually plays aggressive decks and has no understanding of how combat works.
Pretty much. And the Dimir griping is starting to get seriously old. Yea, we get it, you didn't like your champion (like EDH really needs another ridiculous UB general anyway). Apparently you don't like it when you get awesome Lobotomy and Glimpse the Unthinkable callbacks either, and conveniently skip over the fact that you've already gotten two of the most playable cards in the set so far (Far//Away, Notion Thief).
Your optimism both frustrates me and makes me happy. I wish I looked at it that way, but alas. Pessimism forever!
My current belief (though this is stretching even further) is that each guild will get its guild mechanic on 3 cards, one at common, one at uncommon, and one at rare (and two of these will be monocolored). So likely (well, if I'm right) the gold uncommon will be a Cipher card as well.
We did see MaRo saying several times not to dismiss Cipher until we've seen the whole block.
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if you think there have only been 4-5 playable cards spoiled you are bad at magic and suck at card evaluation
Please don't flame users repeatedly. -TK
I would love for you to look a what cards I said would hit and busy in my post history, feel free to check. You'll see I've been incredibly accurate, I'm sure you'd rather just make empty insults tho. Everything I'm about to say is available for you to check for validity.
(Incoming brags, proving a point)
I'll do a bit for you, I called temporal mastery a bust, I called Vraska, M13 Ajani and liliana a bust, I said Restoration Angel was by far the best card from AVR and that Bonfire/Terminus would be the miracle cards worth pre-ordering, just to name a few. People heralded all of those as "the next jace", "omg pre-ban time walk 2.0". Those were popular opinions that I argued against.
I paid less than 8 dollars during pre-order (purely speculation buys) for snapcaster Mage, restoration angel, thundermaw Hellkite, bonfire of the damned, angel of serenity, thragtusk, Boros reckoner, Entreat the angels, deathrite shaman, all from starcitygames.
I sure do suck at evaluating cards tho -_- (sarcasm, if you couldn't tell)
You don't have a clue concerning my card evaluation skills. Have fun paying 20-40 dollars for jank 5 dollar mythics.
Why is everyone posting control is great because UW is doing fine? It's amazing what these aggro players will lie just to keep this awful format the way it is.
We are talking about UB here. That means Dimir. Blue and black. and EVERY SINGLE DIMIR CARD IN GATECRASH AND DRAGONS MAZE IS UNPLAYABLE IN CONSTRUCTED.
Do you genius aggro players get it now? I have to call you geniuses because you feel that aggro takes as much as skill as control when an actual monkey can play aggro. It's been proven. My pet monkey beat me with Naya Blitz on turn 4. Fun format.
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standard is boring as hell, and modern is pretty lame too. i'm playing edh and legacy, with some limited too
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
So far, every guild is getting the shaft, there aren't very many playable cards spoiled so far. maybe 4-5.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
And here I was thinking the guy telling Dimir lovers not to complain because one of the Dimir rares is good in limited was going to be the silliest person in the thread.
Not sure I follow. I didn't say anything inaccurate.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
if you think there have only been 4-5 playable cards spoiled you are bad at magic and suck at card evaluation
Please don't flame users repeatedly. -TK
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
You know, playing blue cards doesn't make you smart.. tell me how much smarter you have to be playing a blue-black deck than playing a jund or naya deck. I'll just wait, this is gonna be good.
In a blue-black deck, you don't cast the creature in your hand and then rotate it 90 degrees every turn like the mindless naya or jund decks. You think about when you should drop that Liliana. Or is that spell worth countering? Do I use my removal spell here? One critical mistake from a control deck will lose its pilot the game. One critical mistake from the aggro decks in standard mean nothing for its pilot.
And that is why dimir should not be shafted, but it was because Wizards hates control and wants everyone who wants to think while playing magic to quit because we are the minority and make little Timmy rage and quit when he gets his primordial hydra killed or countered.
sphinx's revelation, supreme verdict, detention sphere, azorius charm.
All blue white all good cards.
dimir charm isn't bad its just not azorius charm good.
The only good "Dimir" card is Nephalia drowyard and in a proper control deck its all you need to mill people.
Why are there no good Dimir gold cards?...
Lazav I guess isn't the worst card in the world except the last thing you want in a control deck is variability and something that unpredicatable.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Changes nothing really.
Lets for a second that there's no slaughter games in the format costing 4.
Lets further assume that the Dimir mythic was something truly format defining (it isn't)
In the vacancy of lots of other cards Dmir 1 awesome card likely isn't enough to make the
players NOT feel hosed.
Reap the intellect existing with sphinxes revelation in the same format means the "X" slot is filled.
Most of the time....
Still, with esper control - a very grindy deck that very rarely wins with damage and is more of a traditional control deck than the old control decks that people complain are gone - being a tier 1 deck, I can't even see this complaint having any validity. Draw-go is clearly just fine.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
I agree, but I tend to think: "I'm talking to a bad magic player".
TravisWoo... I hope you're not really him, or but that in your sig, because with all the press he gets, you're shaming his name.
The idea that "Only x decktype requires thought" is idiocy.
If you think "aggro is mindless" its because you're "Playing it mindless" and that implies you're probably pretty bad at it.
I don't know "HOW bad but the sad thing is I know that on some level these people are implying: Poker is harder than chess.
When I sit down to pilot an aggro deck I'm playing chess (if facing another aggro deck)
When playing control against another control deck I'm playing poker. . . (all about reads and tells)
If I'm aggro playing against control... and the card pools are equal, one of our decks isn't going to be able to do its job. Life reduction or Stabilizing.
That probably makes it feel mindless when you get bowled over by aggro but.. good aggro keeps you from stabilizing or kills you anyway after you think you've stabilized.
It isn't mindless but its a very honest matchup for both players. The rest of the gibberish you spit is a good reason control should never return to power, it breeds elitism in a lot of people. Which any game is better off without.
PucaTrade Invite. Sign up and enjoy the first 500 points ($5) free!
Stop being control elitist.
I have played every type of deck and they take different skills but none of them are mindless turn sideways deck.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
This....
But on the topic of turning magic into a creature based game: Flashback one year ago. What was the top deck to beat? Delver was not an aggro deck (I didn't play Delver or know much about it, but I could say that it was anything but ballz to the wallz aggro). Flash back one year before that. What was that top deck: Caw-Blade that ran 4 birds and 4 Stoneforges. I think this more creature heavy meta now is a good thing. Personally, I hated when every deck at FNM was either caw-blade or delver (depending on the year). Yes there are more aggro decks, but Naya and Jund Midranges still exist and there is a large diversity of decks instead of one deck dominating the whole meta (at least for standard). Just my 2 cents.
Sig by myself! If you'd like a banner done, pm me! Avvie by DNC from Hero of the Planes Studio
Kind of makes you think, doesn't it? Blue-White dominated Standard for close to 2 years with decks that ran 20-30 instants and sorceries and only 8-16 creatures. All of a sudden, the mix switches a little bit and it's the end of the world.
Looking back, we've had some good shifts in the dominant decks in Standard.
- UB Faeries (blue-based)
- Jund (anti-blue)
- Caw Blade (white-based with blue backup)
- UW Delver (blue-based)
- Various aggro/midrange decks, most of which have green (anti-blue)
So back and forth we go. Who's to say that once Thragtusk rotates, UW Control won't be on top? After all it gets to keep Sphinx's Revelation, Supreme Verdict and Azorius Charm.
I don't always post about Rafiq of the Many, but when I do, I cardlink to the original artwork, and not the supplementary product version.
"I trust myself to do my duty, even unto death. It's what comes after that I'm afraid of."
"Just fight without fear. Your soul is protected by the hand of Avacyn and will never submit to evil."
1 Gold Uncommon
2 Gold Commons
2 Monocolored Cards, one of which will be a Blue Rare with Cipher
to be spoiled.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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Pretty much. And the Dimir griping is starting to get seriously old. Yea, we get it, you didn't like your champion (like EDH really needs another ridiculous UB general anyway). Apparently you don't like it when you get awesome Lobotomy and Glimpse the Unthinkable callbacks either, and conveniently skip over the fact that you've already gotten two of the most playable cards in the set so far (Far//Away, Notion Thief).
Cubetutor Link
Your optimism both frustrates me and makes me happy. I wish I looked at it that way, but alas. Pessimism forever!
My current belief (though this is stretching even further) is that each guild will get its guild mechanic on 3 cards, one at common, one at uncommon, and one at rare (and two of these will be monocolored). So likely (well, if I'm right) the gold uncommon will be a Cipher card as well.
We did see MaRo saying several times not to dismiss Cipher until we've seen the whole block.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
I would love for you to look a what cards I said would hit and busy in my post history, feel free to check. You'll see I've been incredibly accurate, I'm sure you'd rather just make empty insults tho. Everything I'm about to say is available for you to check for validity.
(Incoming brags, proving a point)
I'll do a bit for you, I called temporal mastery a bust, I called Vraska, M13 Ajani and liliana a bust, I said Restoration Angel was by far the best card from AVR and that Bonfire/Terminus would be the miracle cards worth pre-ordering, just to name a few. People heralded all of those as "the next jace", "omg pre-ban time walk 2.0". Those were popular opinions that I argued against.
I paid less than 8 dollars during pre-order (purely speculation buys) for snapcaster Mage, restoration angel, thundermaw Hellkite, bonfire of the damned, angel of serenity, thragtusk, Boros reckoner, Entreat the angels, deathrite shaman, all from starcitygames.
I sure do suck at evaluating cards tho -_- (sarcasm, if you couldn't tell)
You don't have a clue concerning my card evaluation skills. Have fun paying 20-40 dollars for jank 5 dollar mythics.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
We are talking about UB here. That means Dimir. Blue and black. and EVERY SINGLE DIMIR CARD IN GATECRASH AND DRAGONS MAZE IS UNPLAYABLE IN CONSTRUCTED.
Do you genius aggro players get it now? I have to call you geniuses because you feel that aggro takes as much as skill as control when an actual monkey can play aggro. It's been proven. My pet monkey beat me with Naya Blitz on turn 4. Fun format.