[CARD]Jace, Architect of Thought
[/CARD]
I must be missing something, but why is the RTR Jace already fetching $50+? Are people just jumping to conclusions or does he have a home in other formats? I've re-read his abilities a few times and can't figure out what is making him so valuable.
I must be missing something, but why is the RTR Jace already fetching $50+? Are people just jumping to conclusions or does he have a home in other formats? I've re-read his abilities a few times and can't figure out what is making him so valuable.
He dulls aggro, draws like a brainstorm. really? dont understand?
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1st place GPT Seattle
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I am kind of amazed at [...] the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
States is coming up and they won the last Starcity, so everybody's grabbing them up. Also, aggro is big post-rotation, and he's good against aggro, so people are snatching him up. It won't hold. I don't think it has found a home in other formats yet (if ever..)
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
He dulls aggro, draws like a brainstorm. really? dont understand?
That is not drawing like a Brainstorm. Revealing cards and letting the opponent choose is the reverse of a Brainstorm. Maybe it is more like an opponent Brainstorm, but even then you can't put cards from your hand back.
That is not drawing like a Brainstorm. Revealing cards and letting the opponent choose is the reverse of a Brainstorm. Maybe it is more like an opponent Brainstorm, but even then you can't put cards from your hand back.
FoF for 3 is a more powerful draw spell than Brainstorm is.
That is not drawing like a Brainstorm. Revealing cards and letting the opponent choose is the reverse of a Brainstorm. Maybe it is more like an opponent Brainstorm, but even then you can't put cards from your hand back.
you opponent picks the piles. you choose what you get, it's drawing like a boss at the finest.
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If you've ever faced him in a high-budget control deck, you'd understand. He just wrecks, especially if both him and Tamiyo can be out at once. It's completely obnoxious.
I suspect he's only good if you can either protect him, accompany him with a fair few other walkers, or shoot removal out your butt like no tomorrow. He can blunt assaults, but if you've built your deck decently, I've found he protects himself with his -2 more effectively.
His -2 behaves like a Preordain at least half the time (opponent gives you the best card in one pile and the two worst cards in the other, you pick the best card), but you can force your opponent to fork over 2 cards surprisingly often. (Unfortunately, one of the cards is often a land.)
Idk, the card is very good in standard. like very good. if it drops to 30 im trading for most i can find for the next two years of play.
You realize it's very hard for a card to hold that high of a price tag seeing just standard play, right? And you can't say it's THAT good in the current format, because the format is still so undefined! It's very good in certain formats, like post-rotation where aggro is always huge. When things settle and aggro dies back a bit, so will Jace.
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
Its just that second abilaty, his first abilaty is pretty useless ive found, unless your playing tokens or something, and is just used so you can FoF again. But that FoF is devastating, and if your opponent doesnt know what your cooking in your hand, they will often arrange the piles wrong and give you both cards you wanted.
The current price probably won't last, but JAOT is still an insanely great PW. Here is the best way to think of him. His -2 ability would be a 2U sorcery that might see constructed play - compare with divination, compulsive research. So once you realize that a single activation of his -2 would be a fair 2U card, you can then look at everything you get with the extra U. Being a planeswalker that can use that ability multiple times and has a solid defensive +1 makes him a powerhouse card for control decks.
The power of the +1 is non-obvious until you have played with it. If you have any kind of board presence whatsoever - 1 or 2 random utility dorks - dropping Jace and activating the +1 makes it very hard for beatdown decks to make any kind of profitable attack, and once you untap with him ready to use his -2, you are in the dream position of a control deck - drawing extra cards for free while keeping your mana open.
There are some subjective factors at work too - Fact or Fiction type effects are stressful and demoralizing for the opponent. One of the most common splits is land, spell, spell - and they need to figure out which spell you would rather have, and put the land with the other. They give away a lot of value if they get the split wrong, and even if they get it right, getting the best 1 of 3 or a "random 2" is still plenty good.
Along with that are some other psychological factors that drive card value - in addition to being good, FoF effects are fun, and everyone knows the Jace name is a high-quality "brand".
Regardless of all that, I think every player who likes blue control (aka 75% of tournament players) is going to need a full playset of JAOT for the next 2 years of standard, so even if the price does come down, he will probably remain the priciest card in RTR.
While Jace is a very good card, don't expect its price tag to hold. If you recall, this time last year Liliana's price tag was $60. She's fallen a huge amount since then.
While Jace is a very good card, don't expect its price tag to hold. If you recall, this time last year Liliana's price tag was $60. She's fallen a huge amount since then.
This x100
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IIW for any CCC (pick the highest one in the list):
A high-costed equipment (I want it big, but make sure it isn't nutso-broken with Stoneforge. So a high equip cost or a benefit for casting or something)
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
Jace is definitely overpriced @$50 and I will move any I manage to pull for the time being, but I can see him staying at ~$30 for a good while. That -2 is really quite useful.
1. People love Jace, a lot.
2. It's really good. An easy four-of in its respective archetype(s). Might not be "the deck" but still highly competitive.
3. The set was released last week.
Liliana of the Veil reached $60 each after Innistrad's release. Crazy? Yes, but people will pay up if they think they've found the next best thing. That said Jace will see tons of standard play, tons, so the price tag might not be THAT far off. I'd say $35ish when it settles.
[/CARD]
I must be missing something, but why is the RTR Jace already fetching $50+? Are people just jumping to conclusions or does he have a home in other formats? I've re-read his abilities a few times and can't figure out what is making him so valuable.
He dulls aggro, draws like a brainstorm. really? dont understand?
1st place GPT Seattle
1st place GPT Anaheim
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Basandra, Battle Seraph | Diaochan, Artful Beauty | Mayael the Anima | Nath of the Gilt Leaf | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Raksha Golden Cub | Rayne, Academy Chancellor | Roon of the Hidden Realm
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
That is not drawing like a Brainstorm. Revealing cards and letting the opponent choose is the reverse of a Brainstorm. Maybe it is more like an opponent Brainstorm, but even then you can't put cards from your hand back.
FoF for 3 is a more powerful draw spell than Brainstorm is.
you opponent picks the piles. you choose what you get, it's drawing like a boss at the finest.
1st place GPT Seattle
1st place GPT Anaheim
I guess I see what you're saying, but still doesn't seem worthy of the current price tag.
What is FoF? EDIT: Duh, Fact or Fiction
Fact or Fiction, a card that sees/saw a lot of play in Vintage and Legacy(?). To the point that it was restricted in Vintage at one time.
In fact when it first came out in Invasion a common saying was "End of turn, Fact of Fiction, You Lose."
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Modern: U/R Delver, RUG Scapeshift, Pod
Standard: Jeskai Tempo
Legacy: Dredge, Burn
Pauper: Mono-U Delver
EDH: Ghave, Token Master
WG Saffi Eriksdotter Combo GW
WU Rasputin Dreamweaver Storm UW
UGLorescale CoatlGU (Pauper)
His -2 behaves like a Preordain at least half the time (opponent gives you the best card in one pile and the two worst cards in the other, you pick the best card), but you can force your opponent to fork over 2 cards surprisingly often. (Unfortunately, one of the cards is often a land.)
I vote we start calling this effect 'Truth or Dare'.
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1st place GPT Seattle
1st place GPT Anaheim
Idk, the card is very good in standard. like very good. if it drops to 30 im trading for most i can find for the next two years of play.
1st place GPT Seattle
1st place GPT Anaheim
You realize it's very hard for a card to hold that high of a price tag seeing just standard play, right? And you can't say it's THAT good in the current format, because the format is still so undefined! It's very good in certain formats, like post-rotation where aggro is always huge. When things settle and aggro dies back a bit, so will Jace.
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
We will rebuild.
Just looked, he's already dropping a few bucks.
The power of the +1 is non-obvious until you have played with it. If you have any kind of board presence whatsoever - 1 or 2 random utility dorks - dropping Jace and activating the +1 makes it very hard for beatdown decks to make any kind of profitable attack, and once you untap with him ready to use his -2, you are in the dream position of a control deck - drawing extra cards for free while keeping your mana open.
There are some subjective factors at work too - Fact or Fiction type effects are stressful and demoralizing for the opponent. One of the most common splits is land, spell, spell - and they need to figure out which spell you would rather have, and put the land with the other. They give away a lot of value if they get the split wrong, and even if they get it right, getting the best 1 of 3 or a "random 2" is still plenty good.
Along with that are some other psychological factors that drive card value - in addition to being good, FoF effects are fun, and everyone knows the Jace name is a high-quality "brand".
Regardless of all that, I think every player who likes blue control (aka 75% of tournament players) is going to need a full playset of JAOT for the next 2 years of standard, so even if the price does come down, he will probably remain the priciest card in RTR.
You can find me on MTGO. My username is gereffi.
This x100
A Squirrel Wizard
A G?? (1-3 colors, including green) legendary creature with its main strat based on not attacking
Extra value while playing with people who didn't catch up with Ravnica news and freak out at 4 mana Jace.
Thank goodness price tag will be nowhere near JtMS, in some part because Worldwake was a small set while Ravnica is big and drafted/opened like hell.
meat's Trade Corner
2. It's really good. An easy four-of in its respective archetype(s). Might not be "the deck" but still highly competitive.
3. The set was released last week.
Liliana of the Veil reached $60 each after Innistrad's release. Crazy? Yes, but people will pay up if they think they've found the next best thing. That said Jace will see tons of standard play, tons, so the price tag might not be THAT far off. I'd say $35ish when it settles.