A little birdie told me they are going to print this card soon, in line with Maro's statement.
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Artifact
Whenever a token would enter the battlefield, exile it instead.
Playes can not search libraries.
Permanents can not transform/morph and can not gain or change type other than their original type
Progress,....change?
Why bother if some people are happy now.
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This wins. Except the sad thing is this probably isn't even as strong as the cage because cage has applications in every format because of its open wording and all its abilities work so well. Honestly to be on par with cage you would have to read somthing like:
Cage of lets ruin legacy and vintage
1 cmc
Spells can't be countered
All players have hexproof
This wins. Except the sad thing is this probably isn't even as strong as the cage because cage has applications in every format because of its open wording and all its abilities work so well. Honestly to be on par with cage you would have to read somthing like:
Cage of lets ruin legacy and vintage
1 cmc
Spells can't be countered
All players have hexproof
That's the beauty of Magic, for every strategy there is also an appropriate counter-strategy.
EDIT: Back from the Brink also offers a quite convenient loophole that isn't affected by the cage at all.
How is a crummy 6 casting cost card a convenient loophole for a 1 casting cost artifact? This is exactly what the problem with the cage is. The cost of 1 means I can cast it early and advance my board while you are waiting to cast an answer for it.
One really has to stop and ask which of those cards are really GREAT answers.
How many of the are played or playable if they are answers?
How many of them are playable in decks that are hurt by the cage?
How many of them effect the situation fast enough that the cage does not have an effect?
How many of them would have to be tutored for to matter which may be shutoff by cage (birthing pod for instance, runs a few answers but usually 1 ofs as that is what the deck does)?
I see quite a few cards in that list that are specifically not constructed playable, if only because there are other better options to begin with, which inflates your list. For instance I'm not sure anyone would ever run Victorious Destruction to kill a cage when scrapmelter is in the same color, and scrapmelter probably not with Vandal in the game.
Most of these answers are specifically 1for1 trade, which means the cage still provided benefit while it was out (counters excluded)
Hoard smelter dragon is not played in constructed. It wont be played for the cage. Same for halt order, slice in twain. Back from the brink is an EDH card, and if you play a cage in EDH someone is going to walk up to you and smack you in the mouth.
Some of the good answers are also only really good depending on what your opponents deck is. Steel sabotage is great if they are playing tempered steel, not so great if the only targetable cards are the cages themselves because then the game degenerates into a sideboard war, and that's no good. It already exists to some extent with dredge, but all the same, its not optimal.
Really you are also only addressing standard as well, this cards ramifications are felt far more on other format than standard, even though its effect is still pretty profound in standard.
Realistically, the card should have cost more, end of story. If this card cost 2 it would have been more more in line, and even then it would still be super strong as then it would not even be mis-steppable in vintage or standard.
This wins. Except the sad thing is this probably isn't even as strong as the cage because cage has applications in every format because of its open wording and all its abilities work so well. Honestly to be on par with cage you would have to read somthing like:
Cage of lets ruin legacy and vintage
1 cmc
Spells can't be countered
All players have hexproof
The card that he posted was stronger then Cage.
It stops all fetch lands which is absolutely insane in Legacy/Vintage and Modern.
I also want to point out that tutoring is what makes Vintage and to a lesser extent legacy so it shuts down all library tutoring.
Yes in T2 Cage might be better but luckily there are more formats then just T2.
Then perhaps I should make a better deck, one that doesn't rely on a single, narrow approach at winning the game.
Come on now. It's a horror/graveyard set. You're supposed to use the graveyard. Then they print a 1 spell that not all colors can deal with which destroys graveyard strategies. You can even fetch it up with good ol' Trinket Mage.
In standard, you should never basically auto-lose on turn one. Other formats.. whatever, there's enough of a card pool so your Dredge deck or whatever can deal with it.
I just don't like how they encourage heavy graveyard usage throughout the block in every color... A little "safety valve" action is okay, but something that's one generic mana (1) is a bit much.
Naturally, standard decks will adjust.. I just don't like how graveyard-based decks will ALWAYS be fringe playable in Standard because of one little artifact (every color has access to it for as long as Innistrad is in).
That's the beauty of Magic, for every strategy there is also an appropriate counter-strategy.
This.
Grafdiffer's Cage is powerful, no doubt about that, but competent decks should be packing artifact hate on the sideboard anyways. If not, then a resolved Grafdigger's Cage is your just desserts.
Granted, reprinting Oxidize or making the Cage cost >1 would've been pretty handy, too. : p
This card is pretty busted. Now that the whole set is revealed, it reads: play this or put a few in the sideboard, and you don't ever have to see any other card in this set in standard, ever.
So where is the in block hoser for tokens? Considering how ridiculous they are going to be between Sorin and Vault. Oh that's right they only want to hate on strategies they aren't trying to force.
come on people, this card wont see hardly any play
there are no competitive decks that it hoses, and since all competitive decks almost are whitge blue they all run snapcasters, and thus this card would hurt them as well
burning veangeance? come on, that isnt a playable deck nor will be regardless of this card, and if it was, red has plenty of artifact hate they can sideboard plus mental mistep
also burning veangeance if its only relying on flashback spells to control board, would then also lose to any enchantment hate for veangeance as the flashback spells really cant kill anybody, so the destroy target enchantment with flashback would be a better hoser for the deck
Basically this is to cover up a possible issue that could be abused inside the block. As opposed to the way Hex parasite and other spells that were supposed to take out JTMS never did.
This card is amazing and versatile, I think people are too up in arms about it ATM though. The point of this card was so that graveyard mechanics (which are notorious for getting out of control) won't dominate. That said I think it just forces us to use the grave the way WoTC really wants us to in this set, which is as a subtheme and not a reincarnation of combo-winter. This isn't going to be the answer to things like Gravecrawler or Snapcaster though. For the little bit it provides in stopping them from recurring, the gain is offset by the fact that you just filled your library with bricks. I'm sad that it does hurt GSZ, but again, odds are the little bit of harm it does still doesn't make up for the fact that you had to add bricks to your library to do it. What this will stop are the 15 different infinite combo's that are available from the graveyard right now. Try playing a format with turn 3 and 4 combo kills and no way to stop them for a bit and let me know how many people quit playing. Grafdiggers is a necessary evil because it stops these things. For those just using bits from the graveyard, they can kill it easy enough, sideboard away those parts if you expect grafdiggers or just ignore it and laugh at your opponent trying to stop you with a hate-brick.
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Wizards broke the encryption protocols using their codebreakers that Luminum uses to pass messages on this site. They then used a man in the middle attack to misguide him. It still beats the old days of Tempest, when they chained a fake god book to the wrist of a dead pilot and had him float into the Rumor Mill Bay to throw us off their trail.
I really find it annoying that people defending the card just keep on hammering the same strawmen, try to frame valid complaints solely as whining or generally assume others are dumb.
What upset everyone is the total combination of:
1. It hose multiple in-block mechanics.
2. It's a miniscule CMC.
3. It's colorless, playable in any color.
4. Is a pure hoser without any other application.
Compare it to other hosers, like Melira's Outcast:
1. It hose a single mechanic.
2. It costs more.
3. It's colored.
4. It has application beyond hosing (it can be played in a combo, has a potentially attacking body, ...).
The problem with the cage is the whole of its design, not every single flaw taken individually. It's a pure, cheap hoser without any reason of existence beyond hosing. Pure griefer. It's bad design.
The problem with the cage is the whole of its design, not every single flaw taken individually. It's a pure, cheap hoser without any reason of existence beyond hosing. Pure griefer. It's bad design.
Not to mention on top of this the colors it is designed to hose have no answer for it within their own colors.
If worldwake tought them anything its that the hose cards have got to be in the same block in order for people to realize its there. They tried printing hose cards when Jace, the mind sculptor was in standard just to hose him but they still had to ban him anyway because nobody put 2 and 2 togather Hex Parasite was one as well as Despise If they waited to print this card once again people would have completely missed it. Now when people complain about something major in the block they can legitly tell you "we made a card for it try using it."
If worldwake tought them anything its that the hose cards have got to be in the same block in order for people to realize its there. They tried printing hose cards when Jace, the mind sculptor was in standard just to hose him but they still had to ban him anyway because nobody put 2 and 2 togather Hex Parasite was one as well as Despise If they waited to print this card once again people would have completely missed it. Now when people complain about something major in the block they can legitly tell you "we made a card for it try using it."
Its not like we didn't know those cards were designed to hate jace. They even said in their articles "THIS IS TO HATE ON JACE CARD." They never worked because they were conditional, answers were already being ran in the decks without changes, and only some colors had access to it.
Its not like we didn't know those cards were designed to hate jace. They even said in their articles "THIS IS TO HATE ON JACE CARD." They never worked because they conditional and only some colors had access to it.
Hex parasite was any color, even the ability was any color sure it favored black but how many times do you need the ability to kill a jace. All I'm saying is there is a huge reason this card is in the block.
Hex parasite was any color, even the ability was any color sure it favored black but how many times do you need the ability to kill a jace. All I'm saying is there is a huge reason this card is in the block.
Sure was colorless.....didn't change the fact that every single removal spell in everyone's deck killed him. He was also a dead card until jace dropped.
Anyways. Back on to cage.
It stifles any innovation or change in the meta that could have occured. So until next set we are in the same meta we have been in the last 2 months.
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Then perhaps I should make a better deck, one that doesn't rely on a single, narrow approach at winning the game.
Statue of stagnation 1
Artifact
Whenever a token would enter the battlefield, exile it instead.
Playes can not search libraries.
Permanents can not transform/morph and can not gain or change type other than their original type
Progress,....change?
Why bother if some people are happy now.
- Mayor of Avenbruck
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
This wins. Except the sad thing is this probably isn't even as strong as the cage because cage has applications in every format because of its open wording and all its abilities work so well. Honestly to be on par with cage you would have to read somthing like:
Cage of lets ruin legacy and vintage
1 cmc
Spells can't be countered
All players have hexproof
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
Don't forget split second.
That's the beauty of Magic, for every strategy there is also an appropriate counter-strategy.
EDIT: Back from the Brink also offers a quite convenient loophole that isn't affected by the cage at all.
:symu::symw:Grixis Control w/ Nicol Bolas:symu::symw:
How is a crummy 6 casting cost card a convenient loophole for a 1 casting cost artifact? This is exactly what the problem with the cage is. The cost of 1 means I can cast it early and advance my board while you are waiting to cast an answer for it.
How many of the are played or playable if they are answers?
How many of them are playable in decks that are hurt by the cage?
How many of them effect the situation fast enough that the cage does not have an effect?
How many of them would have to be tutored for to matter which may be shutoff by cage (birthing pod for instance, runs a few answers but usually 1 ofs as that is what the deck does)?
I see quite a few cards in that list that are specifically not constructed playable, if only because there are other better options to begin with, which inflates your list. For instance I'm not sure anyone would ever run Victorious Destruction to kill a cage when scrapmelter is in the same color, and scrapmelter probably not with Vandal in the game.
Most of these answers are specifically 1for1 trade, which means the cage still provided benefit while it was out (counters excluded)
Hoard smelter dragon is not played in constructed. It wont be played for the cage. Same for halt order, slice in twain. Back from the brink is an EDH card, and if you play a cage in EDH someone is going to walk up to you and smack you in the mouth.
Some of the good answers are also only really good depending on what your opponents deck is. Steel sabotage is great if they are playing tempered steel, not so great if the only targetable cards are the cages themselves because then the game degenerates into a sideboard war, and that's no good. It already exists to some extent with dredge, but all the same, its not optimal.
Really you are also only addressing standard as well, this cards ramifications are felt far more on other format than standard, even though its effect is still pretty profound in standard.
Realistically, the card should have cost more, end of story. If this card cost 2 it would have been more more in line, and even then it would still be super strong as then it would not even be mis-steppable in vintage or standard.
Http://www.fantasticneighborhood.com/
Comedy gaming podcast. Listening to it makes you cool.
The card that he posted was stronger then Cage.
It stops all fetch lands which is absolutely insane in Legacy/Vintage and Modern.
I also want to point out that tutoring is what makes Vintage and to a lesser extent legacy so it shuts down all library tutoring.
Yes in T2 Cage might be better but luckily there are more formats then just T2.
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Come on now. It's a horror/graveyard set. You're supposed to use the graveyard. Then they print a 1 spell that not all colors can deal with which destroys graveyard strategies. You can even fetch it up with good ol' Trinket Mage.
In standard, you should never basically auto-lose on turn one. Other formats.. whatever, there's enough of a card pool so your Dredge deck or whatever can deal with it.
I just don't like how they encourage heavy graveyard usage throughout the block in every color... A little "safety valve" action is okay, but something that's one generic mana (1) is a bit much.
Naturally, standard decks will adjust.. I just don't like how graveyard-based decks will ALWAYS be fringe playable in Standard because of one little artifact (every color has access to it for as long as Innistrad is in).
This.
Grafdiffer's Cage is powerful, no doubt about that, but competent decks should be packing artifact hate on the sideboard anyways. If not, then a resolved Grafdigger's Cage is your just desserts.
Granted, reprinting Oxidize or making the Cage cost >1 would've been pretty handy, too. : p
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plus ratchet bomb as well
there are no competitive decks that it hoses, and since all competitive decks almost are whitge blue they all run snapcasters, and thus this card would hurt them as well
burning veangeance? come on, that isnt a playable deck nor will be regardless of this card, and if it was, red has plenty of artifact hate they can sideboard plus mental mistep
also burning veangeance if its only relying on flashback spells to control board, would then also lose to any enchantment hate for veangeance as the flashback spells really cant kill anybody, so the destroy target enchantment with flashback would be a better hoser for the deck
He asked for token hoser cards in Innistrad block. Ratchet bomb does work well outside of block for sure though
Standard
WBGWBGABZAN AGGROWBGWBG
If you hate the deck, I'm probably playing it!
I kind of agree, it's such a broad and cheap hate card that I wouldn't really be surprised...
What upset everyone is the total combination of:
1. It hose multiple in-block mechanics.
2. It's a miniscule CMC.
3. It's colorless, playable in any color.
4. Is a pure hoser without any other application.
Compare it to other hosers, like Melira's Outcast:
1. It hose a single mechanic.
2. It costs more.
3. It's colored.
4. It has application beyond hosing (it can be played in a combo, has a potentially attacking body, ...).
The problem with the cage is the whole of its design, not every single flaw taken individually. It's a pure, cheap hoser without any reason of existence beyond hosing. Pure griefer. It's bad design.
Not to mention on top of this the colors it is designed to hose have no answer for it within their own colors.
Its not like we didn't know those cards were designed to hate jace. They even said in their articles "THIS IS TO HATE ON JACE CARD." They never worked because they were conditional, answers were already being ran in the decks without changes, and only some colors had access to it.
Hex parasite was any color, even the ability was any color sure it favored black but how many times do you need the ability to kill a jace. All I'm saying is there is a huge reason this card is in the block.
Sure was colorless.....didn't change the fact that every single removal spell in everyone's deck killed him. He was also a dead card until jace dropped.
Anyways. Back on to cage.
It stifles any innovation or change in the meta that could have occured. So until next set we are in the same meta we have been in the last 2 months.