So, I'll eliminate the "fun" factor in my evaluations (since that brought out way too much bitterness - like all of those who mocked me for rating Baneslayer Angel as 5/5 - hmmm, yeah....).
Will focus on Standard and Limited (S = x/5, L = x/5).
Standard
5 - Will see play in competitive tier 1 or 1.5 decks
4 - Will be heavily playtested/may see play in tier 1/1.5, or will be in tier 2 decks
3 - Will get some playtesting, and likely to end up in some tier 2 builds
2 - Will see at least some casual play; might be a sleeper or plant for RotE
1 - Will likely never leave your trade binder for more than a quarter
Limited (Draft format)
5 - First pick bomb
4 - Very possible first pick; should influence the game
3 - Not a first pick, but will fit well in suitable draft decks
2 - Maybe fit in a deck, but more likely to wheel and end up in dead card pile
1 - At best, serves as a token during game play
Initial thought now that 33/35 rares have been spoiled, along with 8/10 mythics: really boring stuff here for the most part. I'll edit as the final few rares/mythics are revealed. As always, feedback is welcomed, and I will look at modifying the ratings as suggestions are made.
WHITE
Admonition Angel: well, I was admonished (sorry, couldn't resist) for my angel bias when evaluating Baneslayer, so here goes with this one - I think it will be tested in some standard decks (likely as a 1 or 2 of), but I'm not sure if it'll go active. I will rate it with some eye to its potential. In Limited, an obvious bomb of insanity. S = 3, L = 5
Archon of Redemption: hmm, a five-mana white flyer. Will this go into any Standard deck at all? Nope. Hello, our old friend BSA. In Limited, it's good - has evasion, and a little lifegain bonus that can mess with the math in a race situation. S = 2, L = 4
Marshal's Anthem: If you're playing white, just use HotP. The mana cost is too white-intensive to use in any two-plus colour deck. So, again not going to see any play in Standard (unless you think it'll allow you to recur that dead BSA?). It's also not that great in Limited, although it could allow you to return a dead critter or two to alter board advantage. S = 2, L = 3
Stoneforge Mystic: I can't think of any truly amazing pieces of equipment, so a weakened bear isn't going to make the cut in standard (unless RotE is, as speculated, mirrodin v 2.0). In Limited, this will not be very good at all. S = 1, L = 1
Talus Paladin: lifelink...how exciting?? Even if allies become constructed worthy, I don't think this card makes the cut. In Limited, it's better as a 3/4 hill giant at the very least, and a possible change in your life total could affect the outcome. S = 1, L = 3
Terra Eternal: I love this card. I hope someone finds a way to use it: u/w control with colonnade? Still, for the moment, it has very narrow applications, therefore I can't rate it very highly. S = 2 (with the hope it moves up) L = 1 (just doesn't work here)
BLUE
Goliath Sphinx: sphinx smash puny vampire...oh wait, there's more than one vampire on the board by turn eight? Waste of time to discuss for Standard. If it hits in Limited, yeah it's big, but the ZZW format will likely remain quite fast. S = 1, L = 3
Jace, the Mind Sculptor: since this was the first card revealed, it's been talked about ad infinitum. It will see Standard play; it is also quite a powerful tool in Limited. S = 5, L = 5
Jwari Shapeshifter: very simple and clever ally spin on Clone. Not likely to see much play in Standard, as i don't see allies being much more than a fun tier 2.0 deck at best. Could be much stronger in Limited. S = 2, L = 4
Quest for Ula's Temple: hmm. Feels like a plant for another set. There's currently nothing known that you'd want out early (Lorthos needs eight mana to be a win condition). So, for the moment (and probably much longer), this is really really bad. S = 1, L = 1
Selective Memory: appropriately named for its design, I'm just not sure how much use (if any) it'll see. In Standard, it might allow you to thin out a few cards you won't need. In Limited, you'd better not be thinning out more than one or two nonland cards at best. Weak, I think. S = 2, L = 1
Thada Adel, Acquisitor: alright, this has to be a plant for RotE. Well, other than its EDH uses which I'm not focusing on here. For the moment, not much use in Standard; maybe it runs as card 22 in Limited for possible evasion? S = 2 (with RotE potential), L = 2 (maybe a 3??)
BLACK
Abyssal Persecutor: easily my favorite "money" card in the set. Massive beater with an appropriate drawback that can be dealt with at the right time. Great art too, by the way. It will see the most playtesting for Standard, and probably end up in more tier 1 decks than any other WWK rare. Not quite as bomby in Limited, where you could find yourself struggling to remove it. Still. S = 5, L = 4
Agadeem Occultist: again, are allies constructed-worthy? How many colours do you run? I really like this card, but as an 0/2, it just doesn't have enough versatility. It may prove to be better in Limited. S = 2 (I'd test a fun, tier 2-ish ally deck with this card); L = 3
Anowon, the Ruin Sage: in Standard, maybe 1 or 2, but why run this over Bloodwitch? I love the flavour of the card - I'm just not sure it'll see any constructed play. Decent sized body for Limited, and can be a wrecking ball if you've managed to draft vampire heavy. S = 3, L = 4
Butcher of Malakir: simple - does Kalitas see any play at all? Nope. Will this? Probably not. In Limited, it has useful evasion, so it's the rare bomb that fits in as a late game win condition. S = 2 (for those who run casual vamp decks), L = 4 (grave pact on a big flying body is very good)
Death's Shadow: I just don't see this getting used. It has had a lot of hype, and a lot of discussion as the biggest one drop ever. Sort of. I think it'll get tested a little, then slide to the back of trade binders. Not much use in Limited either - hey, I'm at one life...never mind. S = 2, L = 1
Kalastria Highborn: I think this will end up being the best non-mythic rare in the set - the only ones that could beat it will be the u/b and possibly w/u manlands. It works very well in vampire decks, obviously. And, almost completely off topic, I really wish they'd made Undead Slayer a blonde...so many uses for Buffy now... S = 5, L = 4
Quest for the Nihil Stone: Is discard a viable option in Standard? Unfortunately, I don't think so - so, this card is useless, although it might (just might) be a sleeper. S = 1, L = 1
RED
Bazaar Trader: The only card I can think of to donate in Standard would be the Persecutor, and blue has many more solutions to the AP drawback. With artifact in there, could be an RotE plant. Completely useless in Limited. S = 2 (unless a plant for RotE), L = 1
Chain Reaction: Is there a creature-light red deck where this fits in? Not too sure. I like the effect; feels very red (chaotic). More useful in Limited as a reset button if needed. S = 3, L = 4
Comet Storm: Another card that's been discussed ad nauseam, and I think it'll definitely get some playtesting. Almost any X spell is a near bomb as a finisher in Limited. S = 3, L = 5
Dragonmaster Outcast: Could fit in a Naya zoo build, with Ranger, but I don't think more than two will be run in a deck. Will be useful in Limited, but not sure it's a first pick. S = 4, L = 4
Stone Idol Trap: Don't think this will see any use at all in Standard; might get another look after RotE is released. This is better for Limited, as the Construct can absolutely stomp on your opponent's beefiest attacker (non-flying), and then attack next turn. S = 1, L = 4
GREEN
Avenger of Zendikar: obviously too slow for Standard, so it will likely never see a decent deck build there. In Limited, it has more uses, as it drops down chump blockers galore if needed, then they grow each turn (wow...get it..plants grow...heh). S = 2, L = 4
Harabaz Druid: again, the ally deck? Will probably remain in the casual domain. For Limited, this is not a first pick by any means, but you should be able to get it quite late if you happen to be running some sort of 5c-green ally build. S = 2, L = 3
Joraga Warcaller: Elves. Eldrazi or otherwise, the elves are going to be around, probably at the tier 1.5 level, but they'll be there. This card will be heavily playtested, and will end up in at least some builds. I don't think it'll be very effective in Limited, as elves aren't really a tribal build in Zen, unless there are some strong ones yet to be revealed in WWK. S = 4, L = 2 (maybe a 3)
Omnath, Locus of Mana: getting a lot of hype, probably more because it allows you to break a fundamental rule of Magic. Otherwise, it's just a fattie. Will get playtested - might surprise me. In Limited, could be a house in a mono-green, or maybe two-colour build. S = 3, L = 4
Strength of the Tajuru: seems like a Thrive variant, which does not inspire me in a rare slot. I don't think this will ever get run in Standard. In Limited, particularly as an instant, it could be a powerful swing of fortunes during combat. S = 1, L = 3 (maybe 4)
Terastodon: eight mana, no evasion, creates more tokens...still kinda meh. Won't see any play beyond casual. In Limited, I'm uncertain if this will get run at all, as it's still easily chump blocked if necessary. S = 2, L = 3 (could slide down to 2)
MULTICOLOUR
Novablast Wurm: Now, this feels mythic. Angry wurm attack, blow up everything else....I actually think it'll get some testing. In Limited, it's absolutely insane if it gets to swing. S = 3, L = 4
ARTIFACTS
Amulet of Vigor: would get a higher rating if other formats were being considered. I don't see any uses (yet) in Standard, and it's totally worthless in Limited.
S = 3 (moved up after Seth Dracovitch pointed out the manland.decs being tested), L = 1
Basilisk Collar: umm, what???? How is this rare? Even considering its Limited impact (any creature becomes a non-flying Nighthawk), it should not be rare. Will not see Standard play at all. Will be used in Limited for obvious creature-kill reasons. S = 1, L = 4
Lodestone Golem: again, feels like a card designed for other formats, or another plant for RotE. For Standard, don't think it'll see much use at the moment. Might make a Limited deck, as it is a decent sized body. S = 2, L = 3
Seer's Sundial: It is consistent card draw, so it'll be tested (at least a little). In Limited, it's better, and it provides another landfall benefit.
S = 2 (maybe 3), L = 3
LANDS
Celestial Colonnade: my vote for second best manland, and it might move up to number one if there's a w/u control build out there. The vigilance is very helpful, along with the flying evasion. S = 4, L = 4
Creeping Tar Pits: currently, looks to be the best manland. I am already thinking of a ridiculous u/b deck build. It will see a lot of testing, and will be run in Limited too. S = 4, L = 4
Eye of Ugin: umm...has there ever been a more obvious plant for a future set? Hey, how many Eldrazi spells are you running right now?
So, for the time being: S = 1, L = 1
Lavaclaw Reaches: gets my vote for weakest of the manlands - no intimidate or first strike? Either one of those would've made this playable. Firebreathing is weak. S = 2, L = 2
Raging Ravine: a very fitting r/g manland. It's beefy. First swing, it's a 4/4. With trample, this would've been nuts. As it is, it'll get tested, and run in Limited.
S = 3, L = 4
G/W manland: if it is the rumoured 3/4 with reach, then it's rather disappointing. Not likely to see Standard play. Will be useful in Limited. S = 2 (maybe maybe 3), L = 4
Quest for the Nihil Stone: Is discard a viable option in Standard? Unfortunately, I don't think so - so, this card is useless, although it might (just might) be a sleeper. S = 1, L = 1
Just a tip - if you're writing a review, don't do this. Either it's useless or its a sleeper. Pick one. Nobody cares how you called it a month from now, you won't lose all your face in the interwebz and die of shame, or grow your e-peen to stupendous length. All that matters is to the person reading your review there and then is a straight opinion. Sorry, pet peeve.
tl;dr don't fence sit on a card, nobody will care in a week anyway
Just a tip - if you're writing a review, don't do this. Either it's useless or its a sleeper. Pick one. Nobody cares how you called it a month from now, you won't lose all your face in the interwebz and die of shame, or grow your e-peen to stupendous length. All that matters is to the person reading your review there and then is a straight opinion. Sorry, pet peeve.
tl;dr don't fence sit on a card, nobody will care in a week anyway
Fair enough, although I intended my score to be the final say. The "fence sitting" was just a thought.
Oh, and I agree that nobody will care...more likely about five minutes after they've read the post...but I do like to look back at my own reviews from time to time to see what ones I evaluated correctly, and what cards I completely missed on.
I think you underrate Strength of the Tajuru in limited - I don't see any situation that I would pass that card and not feel sick inside.
Overrun is an absolute bomb and remains so when played late in the game when you have 7 or 8 lands - Strength absolutely outclasses Overrun in a 7-8 mana situation.
Worthy of a limited 5. Constructed - a 2 or 3 (it is a powerful effect in ramp decks, but will never be an irreplaceable part of their strategy). Being an instant helps it here - cast it in the opponent's end of turn targetting all your mana elves.
Also the ally clone may be stronger than you think - there's a few quite strong allies, maybe enough to make ally.dec work - and if it does work, it will want to run a 2cc clone.
Weird Johnnyish build-around rares like Bazaar Trader and KrakenQuest* aren't typically plants; they're typically just weird Johnnyish build-around rares. Bazaar Trader, for instance, has its weird wording so you can permanently give yourself Threatened creatures. And if Demon is the only thing in Standard you can think to donate with it, you haven't been looking at the development threads.
Strength of the Tajuru is much better in limited than you credit it for. It's frequently a first pick, like most things that can easily convert X mana into roughly X damage. It's a little harder to dome with than Fireball, for sure, but has miscellaneous trick potential. Remember Swell of Courage?
Terastodon is easily chump blocked? You've got a 9/9 and three 3/3s. How are they chumping that? If there's a reason that it's dubious in limited, it's because many games are decided by the time you can drop nine mana. Not because four creatures is somehow easier to block than one.
Of course Basilisk Collar should be rare. It wouldn't completely ruin limited as an uncommon, but it would show up way more than something that good in limited has any business showing up. Sort of like Nighthawk itself.
I believe I have Strength as a 3, possibly 4 - I think that's about right. The comparison to Overrun is interesting - it is instant speed which is great, but it lacks trample. We'll see - it might end up a 4, but I doubt higher than that.
As for the comments that my ratings are biased - what a peculiarly weird thing to say. Since you have no idea who I am, or what possible perspectives I may have on the game, how is that comment valid? In one sense, of course they're biased. That's essentially a synonym for an opinion. Every comment here is biased. So, that's not really a valid criticism.
And @EpicblahblahRAR....how are my thoughts faulty? Isn't that a biased comment on your part? If you're going to bother to post, at least provide some sort of substantive feedback. Your meaningless post count filler is, well, exactly that: meaningless.
Strength is good because you can fireball someone with it, and any card that can do that tends to be at least a four (on your scale). See Swell of Courage.
On the other hand, the point is reasonable that it's not the greatest environment for it; X isn't likely to be more than four, so if you're fireballing someone with it, it might as well be any of the block's giant growth variants. In fact, in monogreen it's worse for fireballing people than Primal Bellow. On the other hand, it has a lot of flexibility beyond use as a fireball to the dome. After thinking it over a little more, I think that it's a four, but only a four.
Your ratings are heavily biased, with little evidence behind them besides your faulty thoughts on the matter.
Well, given that this thread was created to point out his initial reactions on the cards now that we know most of the set anyway, there was nothing wrong with how he went about pointing this stuff out. Its an opinion. If you disagree, feel free to put forth your own opinions on what you think will be good or not potentially, no need to post something so completely non-constructive to the topic.
While I may not agree with everything that was posted, I find nothing wrong with the poster creating such a thread for the discussion of what he and others think about potential ratings for the rares that we have for the set.
@ Joyd: thanks for the feedback. I agree that Strength could well end up as a 4 for Limited - have to see how it plays, and how the other pump spells work out.
@ Jeff: appreciate your response. Understandably, no one is going to agree with all of my ratings (or, possibly, any of them) but I far prefer reasoned comments (such as from Joyd), than random posts such as the one we both responded to.
One of my goals for this thread was to create a general thread for rare discussion that could complement R_Elf's thread about pricing (that does benefit greatly from your feedback). Clearly, that is the most popular thread for each new set and tracks the progress of cards over time.
I'd almost like to do that here - have the spoiler season ratings, then see how they shift over the next few months.
I also disagree that Jace and the Demon are 5's in limited. Jace is good, but hardly a first pick. Same goes for the demon, I'd only get him if I was reasonably sure I could get rid of him (again making him not a first pick)...
Other things I disagree with:
Bazaar Trader - you should really read up more, there has been an immortal coil deck running around since this was spoiled.
Kalastria Highborn - good but not a 5 in standard
Marshal's Anthem - potential reanimate? should find a deck somewhere with Iona...
If all the various Manland.dec's take off (I admit even I am on that boat) then Amulet of Vigor will become THE most important card in the set due to how much you need it when running the deck. So keep your "1" I will gladly put it at "4." I'd put it at "5", but we haven't even seen any manland.dec's in action yet.
I think you underestimate lifelink, both the W ally that gives it and basilik collar are strong cards. The collar is excellent for any aggro deck as is cheap enough and the deathtouch is strong incentive to not block.
Not sure about Abyssal Persecutor being a 5 in limited. You're going to have to kill it yourself somehow and there's just not much to really do it with.
Well, at least I've finally started getting some responses. Some quick replies (and I'll look to do some quick edits tomorrow):
Abyssal Persecutor: I checked my notes, and that should have been a 4 for Limited; I totally agree that the problem becomes how to deal with it. There is bounce, and carnage altar...but still a 4. Fair comments.
@ Seth: I just looked at the manland.dec thread, and I am very curious to see if those work out - I actually hope they do. If so, then Amulet will definitely move up. I will bump it to a 3 as a result of the likely playtesting.
@ smile: I've seen that Coil deck - I still feel Trader is too weak to be reliable. I'm going to stand by my rating for now, and feel free to say "I told you so" if it ends up finding uses (before RotE is released).
For Highborn...I really want to playtest it in various vamp builds...I'm again going to stand by my 5 for now.
The manlands will see play on the basis that they are duals that can attack for the win. Refuges are getting played and they are worse than the manlands. Not a single of them deserves anything less than a 3.
No, it's not spectacular. But if you get, say, a Blazing Torch and a Kitesail, I would definitely run one of these guys. There's no way he's worthless in limited.
Constructed is another story, and it's hard to tell whether a Kor archetype will establish itself in Standard (likely not). At least it's quite good in EDH.
I didn't read past the blues. Maybe another time.
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How can omnath be a '3' in Standard?! IT starts as a 1/1 for 2G, so you need 5 mana to play it without it getting bolted immediatly. Seams very weak to me, it won't see any play in Standard I think.
I don't agree with a lot of other card evaluations
Sphinx is really good. Control will play it and be able to protect him just fine, hes a much better finisher then Jwar Isle and thats saying a lot considering how good he alone is. Bazzar Trader.dec now has 16 threaten effects. Thats really, really, really,really good. Really good.
Not sure why you don't like Terastodon. Yeah it's 8 mana but thats for 18 power, or the ability to take out some of your opponent's permanents if needed.
If there was only some way to cheat this card out for less mana (or for free) and at the end of your opponents turn. - Summoning Trap
I just bought a set of Summoning Traps because they're so awesome.
This is the first time in years I bought a playset of new cards; that means a lot.
Quest for Ula's Temple: hmm. Feels like a plant for another set. There's currently nothing known that you'd want out early(Lorthos needs eight mana to be a win condition). So, for the moment (and probably much longer), this is really really bad. S = 1, L = 1
There's currently nothing known that you'd want out early
inkwell leviathan says Hi! I wanna come out to play early and beat faces.
I agree the quest isn't great or anything, but it may find a fun little niche deck. Maybe extended?
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--- Current Decks:
Type 2:
White Weenie
Type 1.5
Affinity
Deadguy Ale
NFS
Infect Stompy
Dragon Stompy
Building: T.E.S.
Man: "Hey baby, you play Magic?"
Woman: "Stifle." (walks away)
There's currently nothing known that you'd want out early
inkwell leviathan says Hi! I wanna come out to play early and beat faces.
I agree the quest isn't great or anything, but it may find a fun little niche deck. Maybe extended?
Hi Inkwell!! Hmm..totally forgot about that card. Alright, maybe that bumps the quest to a 2 for standard, as a possible casual deck.
I've decided to avoid extended, edh, etc. to try to focus my evaluations on two formats - per the, umm, comments after doing this for previous sets.
Other comments: the manlands are intriguing. I still feel the b/r land will end up well below the others. The g/r could move up. They will be closely monitored.
I've yet to see any deck beyond casual use Summoning Trap - so that card combined with Terastadon still leaves the big elephant at a 2. I don't dislike the card - it's a ton of fun (so to speak) - but I decided to evaluate from a more competitive perspective this time (as there were too many complaints about including casual formats in previous evaluations).
Your ratings offer VERY little analysis. Everything is "I think" or "I hope". You rarely talk about how the cards might fit in existing or new archtypes.
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded." - from Dr Jeebus's Sig
Terastodon is easily chump blocked? You've got a 9/9 and three 3/3s. How are they chumping that? If there's a reason that it's dubious in limited, it's because many games are decided by the time you can drop nine mana. Not because four creatures is somehow easier to block than one.
You only get the 3/3's if you destroy your own permanents.
I suppose at 9 mana it doesent matter to destroy 3 lands.
No matter what your opinion is on cards, someone will always disagree. Not that I personally agree. I really like the one that brings out fatties.
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"It's like some kind of Voltron... made of elephants??"
GREEN
Avenger of Zendikar: obviously too slow for Standard, so it will likely never see a decent deck build there. In Limited, it has more uses, as it drops down chump blockers galore if needed, then they grow each turn (wow...get it..plants grow...heh). S = 2, L = 4
I don't think you are giving this card enough credit, It is the perfect finisher for and eldrazi deck (which ramp so the 7 cmc isnt a major problem)
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So, I'll eliminate the "fun" factor in my evaluations (since that brought out way too much bitterness - like all of those who mocked me for rating Baneslayer Angel as 5/5 - hmmm, yeah....).
Will focus on Standard and Limited (S = x/5, L = x/5).
Standard
5 - Will see play in competitive tier 1 or 1.5 decks
4 - Will be heavily playtested/may see play in tier 1/1.5, or will be in tier 2 decks
3 - Will get some playtesting, and likely to end up in some tier 2 builds
2 - Will see at least some casual play; might be a sleeper or plant for RotE
1 - Will likely never leave your trade binder for more than a quarter
Limited (Draft format)
5 - First pick bomb
4 - Very possible first pick; should influence the game
3 - Not a first pick, but will fit well in suitable draft decks
2 - Maybe fit in a deck, but more likely to wheel and end up in dead card pile
1 - At best, serves as a token during game play
Initial thought now that 33/35 rares have been spoiled, along with 8/10 mythics: really boring stuff here for the most part. I'll edit as the final few rares/mythics are revealed. As always, feedback is welcomed, and I will look at modifying the ratings as suggestions are made.
WHITE
Admonition Angel: well, I was admonished (sorry, couldn't resist) for my angel bias when evaluating Baneslayer, so here goes with this one - I think it will be tested in some standard decks (likely as a 1 or 2 of), but I'm not sure if it'll go active. I will rate it with some eye to its potential. In Limited, an obvious bomb of insanity. S = 3, L = 5
Archon of Redemption: hmm, a five-mana white flyer. Will this go into any Standard deck at all? Nope. Hello, our old friend BSA. In Limited, it's good - has evasion, and a little lifegain bonus that can mess with the math in a race situation. S = 2, L = 4
Marshal's Anthem: If you're playing white, just use HotP. The mana cost is too white-intensive to use in any two-plus colour deck. So, again not going to see any play in Standard (unless you think it'll allow you to recur that dead BSA?). It's also not that great in Limited, although it could allow you to return a dead critter or two to alter board advantage. S = 2, L = 3
Stoneforge Mystic: I can't think of any truly amazing pieces of equipment, so a weakened bear isn't going to make the cut in standard (unless RotE is, as speculated, mirrodin v 2.0). In Limited, this will not be very good at all. S = 1, L = 1
Talus Paladin: lifelink...how exciting?? Even if allies become constructed worthy, I don't think this card makes the cut. In Limited, it's better as a 3/4 hill giant at the very least, and a possible change in your life total could affect the outcome. S = 1, L = 3
Terra Eternal: I love this card. I hope someone finds a way to use it: u/w control with colonnade? Still, for the moment, it has very narrow applications, therefore I can't rate it very highly. S = 2 (with the hope it moves up) L = 1 (just doesn't work here)
BLUE
Goliath Sphinx: sphinx smash puny vampire...oh wait, there's more than one vampire on the board by turn eight? Waste of time to discuss for Standard. If it hits in Limited, yeah it's big, but the ZZW format will likely remain quite fast. S = 1, L = 3
Jace, the Mind Sculptor: since this was the first card revealed, it's been talked about ad infinitum. It will see Standard play; it is also quite a powerful tool in Limited. S = 5, L = 5
Jwari Shapeshifter: very simple and clever ally spin on Clone. Not likely to see much play in Standard, as i don't see allies being much more than a fun tier 2.0 deck at best. Could be much stronger in Limited. S = 2, L = 4
Quest for Ula's Temple: hmm. Feels like a plant for another set. There's currently nothing known that you'd want out early (Lorthos needs eight mana to be a win condition). So, for the moment (and probably much longer), this is really really bad. S = 1, L = 1
Selective Memory: appropriately named for its design, I'm just not sure how much use (if any) it'll see. In Standard, it might allow you to thin out a few cards you won't need. In Limited, you'd better not be thinning out more than one or two nonland cards at best. Weak, I think. S = 2, L = 1
Thada Adel, Acquisitor: alright, this has to be a plant for RotE. Well, other than its EDH uses which I'm not focusing on here. For the moment, not much use in Standard; maybe it runs as card 22 in Limited for possible evasion? S = 2 (with RotE potential), L = 2 (maybe a 3??)
BLACK
Abyssal Persecutor: easily my favorite "money" card in the set. Massive beater with an appropriate drawback that can be dealt with at the right time. Great art too, by the way. It will see the most playtesting for Standard, and probably end up in more tier 1 decks than any other WWK rare. Not quite as bomby in Limited, where you could find yourself struggling to remove it. Still. S = 5, L = 4
Agadeem Occultist: again, are allies constructed-worthy? How many colours do you run? I really like this card, but as an 0/2, it just doesn't have enough versatility. It may prove to be better in Limited. S = 2 (I'd test a fun, tier 2-ish ally deck with this card); L = 3
Anowon, the Ruin Sage: in Standard, maybe 1 or 2, but why run this over Bloodwitch? I love the flavour of the card - I'm just not sure it'll see any constructed play. Decent sized body for Limited, and can be a wrecking ball if you've managed to draft vampire heavy. S = 3, L = 4
Butcher of Malakir: simple - does Kalitas see any play at all? Nope. Will this? Probably not. In Limited, it has useful evasion, so it's the rare bomb that fits in as a late game win condition. S = 2 (for those who run casual vamp decks), L = 4 (grave pact on a big flying body is very good)
Death's Shadow: I just don't see this getting used. It has had a lot of hype, and a lot of discussion as the biggest one drop ever. Sort of. I think it'll get tested a little, then slide to the back of trade binders. Not much use in Limited either - hey, I'm at one life...never mind. S = 2, L = 1
Kalastria Highborn: I think this will end up being the best non-mythic rare in the set - the only ones that could beat it will be the u/b and possibly w/u manlands. It works very well in vampire decks, obviously. And, almost completely off topic, I really wish they'd made Undead Slayer a blonde...so many uses for Buffy now... S = 5, L = 4
Quest for the Nihil Stone: Is discard a viable option in Standard? Unfortunately, I don't think so - so, this card is useless, although it might (just might) be a sleeper. S = 1, L = 1
RED
Bazaar Trader: The only card I can think of to donate in Standard would be the Persecutor, and blue has many more solutions to the AP drawback. With artifact in there, could be an RotE plant. Completely useless in Limited. S = 2 (unless a plant for RotE), L = 1
Chain Reaction: Is there a creature-light red deck where this fits in? Not too sure. I like the effect; feels very red (chaotic). More useful in Limited as a reset button if needed. S = 3, L = 4
Comet Storm: Another card that's been discussed ad nauseam, and I think it'll definitely get some playtesting. Almost any X spell is a near bomb as a finisher in Limited. S = 3, L = 5
Dragonmaster Outcast: Could fit in a Naya zoo build, with Ranger, but I don't think more than two will be run in a deck. Will be useful in Limited, but not sure it's a first pick. S = 4, L = 4
Stone Idol Trap: Don't think this will see any use at all in Standard; might get another look after RotE is released. This is better for Limited, as the Construct can absolutely stomp on your opponent's beefiest attacker (non-flying), and then attack next turn. S = 1, L = 4
GREEN
Avenger of Zendikar: obviously too slow for Standard, so it will likely never see a decent deck build there. In Limited, it has more uses, as it drops down chump blockers galore if needed, then they grow each turn (wow...get it..plants grow...heh). S = 2, L = 4
Harabaz Druid: again, the ally deck? Will probably remain in the casual domain. For Limited, this is not a first pick by any means, but you should be able to get it quite late if you happen to be running some sort of 5c-green ally build. S = 2, L = 3
Joraga Warcaller: Elves. Eldrazi or otherwise, the elves are going to be around, probably at the tier 1.5 level, but they'll be there. This card will be heavily playtested, and will end up in at least some builds. I don't think it'll be very effective in Limited, as elves aren't really a tribal build in Zen, unless there are some strong ones yet to be revealed in WWK. S = 4, L = 2 (maybe a 3)
Omnath, Locus of Mana: getting a lot of hype, probably more because it allows you to break a fundamental rule of Magic. Otherwise, it's just a fattie. Will get playtested - might surprise me. In Limited, could be a house in a mono-green, or maybe two-colour build. S = 3, L = 4
Strength of the Tajuru: seems like a Thrive variant, which does not inspire me in a rare slot. I don't think this will ever get run in Standard. In Limited, particularly as an instant, it could be a powerful swing of fortunes during combat. S = 1, L = 3 (maybe 4)
Terastodon: eight mana, no evasion, creates more tokens...still kinda meh. Won't see any play beyond casual. In Limited, I'm uncertain if this will get run at all, as it's still easily chump blocked if necessary. S = 2, L = 3 (could slide down to 2)
MULTICOLOUR
Novablast Wurm: Now, this feels mythic. Angry wurm attack, blow up everything else....I actually think it'll get some testing. In Limited, it's absolutely insane if it gets to swing. S = 3, L = 4
ARTIFACTS
Amulet of Vigor: would get a higher rating if other formats were being considered. I don't see any uses (yet) in Standard, and it's totally worthless in Limited.
S = 3 (moved up after Seth Dracovitch pointed out the manland.decs being tested), L = 1
Basilisk Collar: umm, what???? How is this rare? Even considering its Limited impact (any creature becomes a non-flying Nighthawk), it should not be rare. Will not see Standard play at all. Will be used in Limited for obvious creature-kill reasons. S = 1, L = 4
Lodestone Golem: again, feels like a card designed for other formats, or another plant for RotE. For Standard, don't think it'll see much use at the moment. Might make a Limited deck, as it is a decent sized body. S = 2, L = 3
Seer's Sundial: It is consistent card draw, so it'll be tested (at least a little). In Limited, it's better, and it provides another landfall benefit.
S = 2 (maybe 3), L = 3
LANDS
Celestial Colonnade: my vote for second best manland, and it might move up to number one if there's a w/u control build out there. The vigilance is very helpful, along with the flying evasion. S = 4, L = 4
Creeping Tar Pits: currently, looks to be the best manland. I am already thinking of a ridiculous u/b deck build. It will see a lot of testing, and will be run in Limited too. S = 4, L = 4
Eye of Ugin: umm...has there ever been a more obvious plant for a future set? Hey, how many Eldrazi spells are you running right now?
So, for the time being: S = 1, L = 1
Lavaclaw Reaches: gets my vote for weakest of the manlands - no intimidate or first strike? Either one of those would've made this playable. Firebreathing is weak. S = 2, L = 2
Raging Ravine: a very fitting r/g manland. It's beefy. First swing, it's a 4/4. With trample, this would've been nuts. As it is, it'll get tested, and run in Limited.
S = 3, L = 4
G/W manland: if it is the rumoured 3/4 with reach, then it's rather disappointing. Not likely to see Standard play. Will be useful in Limited. S = 2 (maybe maybe 3), L = 4
Just a tip - if you're writing a review, don't do this. Either it's useless or its a sleeper. Pick one. Nobody cares how you called it a month from now, you won't lose all your face in the interwebz and die of shame, or grow your e-peen to stupendous length. All that matters is to the person reading your review there and then is a straight opinion. Sorry, pet peeve.
tl;dr don't fence sit on a card, nobody will care in a week anyway
Fair enough, although I intended my score to be the final say. The "fence sitting" was just a thought.
Oh, and I agree that nobody will care...more likely about five minutes after they've read the post...but I do like to look back at my own reviews from time to time to see what ones I evaluated correctly, and what cards I completely missed on.
Overrun is an absolute bomb and remains so when played late in the game when you have 7 or 8 lands - Strength absolutely outclasses Overrun in a 7-8 mana situation.
Worthy of a limited 5. Constructed - a 2 or 3 (it is a powerful effect in ramp decks, but will never be an irreplaceable part of their strategy). Being an instant helps it here - cast it in the opponent's end of turn targetting all your mana elves.
Also the ally clone may be stronger than you think - there's a few quite strong allies, maybe enough to make ally.dec work - and if it does work, it will want to run a 2cc clone.
I'll have to agree here. I disagree with several of your evaluations, including things such as Telecus Paladin, Stoneforge Mystic, and Bazaar Trader
Standard
WUW/U HumansUW
Modern
WBW/B TokensBW
Strength of the Tajuru is much better in limited than you credit it for. It's frequently a first pick, like most things that can easily convert X mana into roughly X damage. It's a little harder to dome with than Fireball, for sure, but has miscellaneous trick potential. Remember Swell of Courage?
Terastodon is easily chump blocked? You've got a 9/9 and three 3/3s. How are they chumping that? If there's a reason that it's dubious in limited, it's because many games are decided by the time you can drop nine mana. Not because four creatures is somehow easier to block than one.
Of course Basilisk Collar should be rare. It wouldn't completely ruin limited as an uncommon, but it would show up way more than something that good in limited has any business showing up. Sort of like Nighthawk itself.
*For the Nintendo Entertainment System
As for the comments that my ratings are biased - what a peculiarly weird thing to say. Since you have no idea who I am, or what possible perspectives I may have on the game, how is that comment valid? In one sense, of course they're biased. That's essentially a synonym for an opinion. Every comment here is biased. So, that's not really a valid criticism.
And @EpicblahblahRAR....how are my thoughts faulty? Isn't that a biased comment on your part? If you're going to bother to post, at least provide some sort of substantive feedback. Your meaningless post count filler is, well, exactly that: meaningless.
On the other hand, the point is reasonable that it's not the greatest environment for it; X isn't likely to be more than four, so if you're fireballing someone with it, it might as well be any of the block's giant growth variants. In fact, in monogreen it's worse for fireballing people than Primal Bellow. On the other hand, it has a lot of flexibility beyond use as a fireball to the dome. After thinking it over a little more, I think that it's a four, but only a four.
Well, given that this thread was created to point out his initial reactions on the cards now that we know most of the set anyway, there was nothing wrong with how he went about pointing this stuff out. Its an opinion. If you disagree, feel free to put forth your own opinions on what you think will be good or not potentially, no need to post something so completely non-constructive to the topic.
While I may not agree with everything that was posted, I find nothing wrong with the poster creating such a thread for the discussion of what he and others think about potential ratings for the rares that we have for the set.
@ Jeff: appreciate your response. Understandably, no one is going to agree with all of my ratings (or, possibly, any of them) but I far prefer reasoned comments (such as from Joyd), than random posts such as the one we both responded to.
One of my goals for this thread was to create a general thread for rare discussion that could complement R_Elf's thread about pricing (that does benefit greatly from your feedback). Clearly, that is the most popular thread for each new set and tracks the progress of cards over time.
I'd almost like to do that here - have the spoiler season ratings, then see how they shift over the next few months.
I also disagree that Jace and the Demon are 5's in limited. Jace is good, but hardly a first pick. Same goes for the demon, I'd only get him if I was reasonably sure I could get rid of him (again making him not a first pick)...
Other things I disagree with:
Bazaar Trader - you should really read up more, there has been an immortal coil deck running around since this was spoiled.
Kalastria Highborn - good but not a 5 in standard
Marshal's Anthem - potential reanimate? should find a deck somewhere with Iona...
Abyssal Persecutor: I checked my notes, and that should have been a 4 for Limited; I totally agree that the problem becomes how to deal with it. There is bounce, and carnage altar...but still a 4. Fair comments.
@ Seth: I just looked at the manland.dec thread, and I am very curious to see if those work out - I actually hope they do. If so, then Amulet will definitely move up. I will bump it to a 3 as a result of the likely playtesting.
@ smile: I've seen that Coil deck - I still feel Trader is too weak to be reliable. I'm going to stand by my rating for now, and feel free to say "I told you so" if it ends up finding uses (before RotE is released).
For Highborn...I really want to playtest it in various vamp builds...I'm again going to stand by my 5 for now.
No, it's not spectacular. But if you get, say, a Blazing Torch and a Kitesail, I would definitely run one of these guys. There's no way he's worthless in limited.
Constructed is another story, and it's hard to tell whether a Kor archetype will establish itself in Standard (likely not). At least it's quite good in EDH.
I didn't read past the blues. Maybe another time.
EDH
Azami (video)
:symw::symb::symg: Teneb (video)
Drana (video) (retired)
:symw::symr: Brion (video)
:symb::symr: Wort (video)
Arcum (video) (retired)
:symr::symg: Stonebrow (video)
B Shirei (video)
WU Rasputin (video) (retired)
R Urabrask (video)
WUR Zedruu (video) (retired)
W Isamaru
UB Grimgrin
U Mistform Ultimus (video)
UBR Gwendlyn (video)
URG Animar (video)
RG Thromok
WB Selenia
Standard
WU Geist of Saint Traft standard EDH (video) (retired)
WUB Battle of Wits!
I don't agree with a lot of other card evaluations
I just bought a set of Summoning Traps because they're so awesome.
This is the first time in years I bought a playset of new cards; that means a lot.
The candles burn out for you; I am free.
There's currently nothing known that you'd want out early
inkwell leviathan says Hi! I wanna come out to play early and beat faces.
I agree the quest isn't great or anything, but it may find a fun little niche deck. Maybe extended?
Current Decks:
Type 2:
White Weenie
Type 1.5
Affinity
Deadguy Ale
NFS
Infect Stompy
Dragon Stompy
Building: T.E.S.
Hi Inkwell!! Hmm..totally forgot about that card. Alright, maybe that bumps the quest to a 2 for standard, as a possible casual deck.
I've decided to avoid extended, edh, etc. to try to focus my evaluations on two formats - per the, umm, comments after doing this for previous sets.
Other comments: the manlands are intriguing. I still feel the b/r land will end up well below the others. The g/r could move up. They will be closely monitored.
I've yet to see any deck beyond casual use Summoning Trap - so that card combined with Terastadon still leaves the big elephant at a 2. I don't dislike the card - it's a ton of fun (so to speak) - but I decided to evaluate from a more competitive perspective this time (as there were too many complaints about including casual formats in previous evaluations).
You only get the 3/3's if you destroy your own permanents.
I suppose at 9 mana it doesent matter to destroy 3 lands.
No matter what your opinion is on cards, someone will always disagree. Not that I personally agree. I really like the one that brings out fatties.
Credit goes to Brofoux for the Sig pic.
Current Modern Deck
Black Licorice
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11006564#post11006564
I don't think you are giving this card enough credit, It is the perfect finisher for and eldrazi deck (which ramp so the 7 cmc isnt a major problem)