@ Pacman: I don't think that the OP has shown any particularly good logic to argue that this card shouldn't exist, nor is this a situation where logic can readily be applied; one's opinion of the card is purely subjective.
There's a lot of cards that could have one point extra toughness, cost 1 less, or have an extra ability, or be strictly worse than another. Some of those cards are garbage. It doesn't bother me too much. I agree with the OP that I would prefer this card to be better and more playable in limited etc., but making such a poorly construed rant doesn't really come across as a convincing argument to print the card as such. Ridiculous analogies from coffee to taxes (!) further undermined his point IMO. Wizards have consciously opted for a topdown design here, but I'd be interested to hear the facts behind its printing from WotC themselves as the card makes an interesting case.
If Wizards prints one card in every set that's as bad as this, I won't be bothered. Now if this card were a rare, then I think we'd certainly have more of a case for complaint.
Also, a lot are saying “They made horribly weak cards in the past, so its ok for them to do it now”
Again, don't you learn from the past and improve upon yourself in the future? Mindless Null doesn't have to be Blastoderm level, but being on par to a decent level with the other common creatures in the set would have been nice. Could have done a simple addition of deathtouch and he seems ok.
Use that 20 years of experience to further polish up the game and not have commons that are obviously worst compared to recent common cards like Yugioh does.
I think this may seriously be the new Chimney Imp of Magic. I mean, although Warpath Gouls is a new M10 "power up," Scathe Zombies is a classic card that no one ever played.
This is actually a YuGiOh hallmark. I played that crappy game for a few years, and I know.
In many cases, YuGiOh prints commons that are just straight-up worse than other cards. Basically, when playing YuGiOh, you always flip to the rare because it's the only thing that has a chance of being usable. Oh, there are a few usable YuGiOh commons...but not many.
It's not really the fact that there's a rotten common in the set that bugs me, though. I typically set aside 30-50% of the cards that I open as unplayable and never look at them again. What actually irritates me here is that, according to the OP (and I believe this), this card was not supposed to exist. Development let it through for no good reason that I have yet heard, over the objections of at least one designer. This is SLOPPY WORK.
Oh, I could see how it might be too good at 2 mana. I played the stupid-aggro draft deck yesterday, and it was terrifying. But they could have done something to Mindless Null to fix it, and they should have, and they were TOLD to, and they didn't.
I like about 90% of this set, but Mindless Null's existence and Lotus Cobra's rarity are going to spawn a nasty letter...
Look at me! I can bold words and use CAPSLOCK to emphasize my point! Hopefully I can trick people into ignoring that I completely have no evidence in my post to back up my claims if I make it look fancy enough.
I played him in my Sealed deck and won with him. He's a body, he's fine for limited. He's not even strictly worse than Scathe Zombies, so I don't see what the big fuss is. I would expect to see a thread like this about the watered down Healing Salve before the situationally better Scathe Zombies.
If you opened a Scathe Zombies, would you play it? No.
If you open a Mindless Null, will you play it? No.
In practical use, Mindless Null isn't any worse than another unplayable card. They all have effectively zero value since they're not in your deck.
If you're really really starving for an gray ogre due to having the ****tiest pool in the world, you might play it. But then it really is inconsequential since you probably won't win.
There's no need to have a melodramatic tantrum, even if this was a mistake. Black aggro is powerful in Limited as it is...Vampire Lacerator, Surrakar Marauder and Guul Draz Vampire tear it UP. No one is even going to notice the Nulls unless they want to give themselves something to be upset about.
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A voice for Timmy.
Commander R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
So, is this another thread I can look forward to every time a new set is released? I'm pretty sure there has been at least one crappy common every set.
Design always passes off cards that are aggressively costed to Development. Then it is development's job to ensure that the cards are appropriately costed for constructed and limited. If the story is true, then it is Development's decision to keep it at at that casting cost for a reason that I hope will be explain in a column someday.
Still, I don't think they have done anything yet that deserves them losing their jobs and your defamation of their reputation.
By the way, I didn't vote in the poll because there weren't any option that was just "No" or "No. I don't care."
I like some of the other people around here who think you need to cool down I picked the boob option.Last I checked that option was winning your poll.
There are a lot of crappy cards.
I am developing my own card game right now. When I mock up cards I use stuff like Hunger of the Nim (a combat trick card at sorcery speed) or Devour in Shadow ( a two mana Kill Spell with a drawback) well I can't think of a card that's better then that...oh wait Terror.
Sometimes Wizards prints toilet paper. Wipe, and move on.
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There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
If you opened a Scathe Zombies, would you play it? No.
If you open a Mindless Null, will you play it? No.
In practical use, Mindless Null isn't any worse than another unplayable card. They all have effectively zero value since they're not in your deck.
If you're really really starving for an gray ogre due to having the ****tiest pool in the world, you might play it. But then it really is inconsequential since you probably won't win.
There's no need to have a melodramatic tantrum, even if this was a mistake. Black aggro is powerful in Limited as it is...Vampire Lacerator, Surrakar Marauder and Guul Draz Vampire tear it UP. No one is even going to notice the Nulls unless they want to give themselves something to be upset about.
Scathe is a classic and shows Wizard's past with their designs. Mindless is a new card that shows what kind of designs are made with having 20 years of experience.
That's probably the main upset, seeing designs that could have been polished more but they decided not to, even after 20 years of knowing and having all of that knowledge, they just decide not to.
I remember when I used to make long winded arguments about very trivial things when I was younger. I didn't have many friends back then
But yeah, I'll say pretty much what the majority said here. This may be a poor excuse of a card, but it's pretty asinine to say that people need to be fired over one card. Yeah, it was a mistake, and yeah, I don't find it excusable to keep it, but it's one ****** card. The developers brought you so many other cards that you enjoy. I voted boobs.
The way I'm seeing this thread is that it's a war between a completely arrogant person, seeing that every set should be perfect, or if not perfect, then without terrible cards, and everyone else that's bashing him, or are caught up in not understanding what the man wants. Even those that do understand don't understand the issue: scornful egotist is one of the best blue creatures of all time.
Now, using Scornful Egotist, we can quite clearly see that WotC had been putting in a fluff creature in most sets, and this applies well throughout the many many sets from SCOURGE onwards. Hell, you can easily find terrible creatures from before then.
A lot of these cards are one of WotC's MtG's R&D team's way to relieve some stress by trying to make one terrible creature in a set, but it's also bound to be some requirement for a set; for people new to the game to understand what's a good and a bad card. This will teach a lot how to draft, make decks, or played sealed.
Regardless, the way that I see Null is that you'll most likely have some other vampire out, especially since there are a LOT of one or two drops vampires in Zen. At best? A >2/2 creature. At worst? A 2/2 that can't block.
One of the few worst cards of the set? Sure. Is it the worst? Not sure, but I'll be completing my Zen review soon enough to say for sure.
For those who don't know, Mindless Nell is this:
Mindless Nell 2B
Creature - Zombie C
Mindless Nell can't block unless you have a vampire.
~ decent flavor text explaining that this is the same kind of "zombie" as in that Blade movie~
2/2
Functionally worse than both Scathe Zombie and M2010's replacement there of. Also functionally worse than the 2/2 ally artifact for 3.
Here's the story:
Now, I'm okay with accidents. Skull Clamp was an accident, WOTC (hopefully) learned from it. But this was no accident. Someone made a typo, sure, but the dip***** in development were, apparently CONSTANLY PETITIONED By MARO to remove this card, and/or fix the typo (we can assume).
The card as MARO designed it (costing 1B) would have been an excellent limited card with FANTASTIC flavor. As it got through development, whatever flavor it has is drowned out by it being a waste of paper, quite literally.
So, here's the question: Should WOTC fire the members of the development team who facilitated the printing of this bastard. If we believe Maro, they had many opportunities to CATCH what's wrong with this POS, EVEN IF they've never played a game of magic in their life. Now, make no mistake, they'll come out with excuses. And they'll probably apologize for allys and (development's) traps sooner or later. Time heals all wounds, assuming your wounds don't kill you before they heal. But this seems to be a reprehensible act. Here we have a typo, a doubly functionally worse card than something that came out earlier this year and sees no serious play, and EVERY OPPORTUNITY to fix the typo to make it one of the best "flavor" and "limited" cards in the set. And they didn't do it. Not once. Not twice. Not over a long weekend where they were all tired and drunk after making up traps. Not the next morning on thier hangovers when they made up allys, and forgot that although allys have almost the exact same wording as LANDFALL, something the DESIGN team came up with, they shouldn't ability word allys. No. After numberous attempts, these dip***** constantly and consistently failed to do their jobs. I"m so disgusted I'm seriously thinking about getting out of magic. Afterall, if they can ruin as set w/ Fetchlands AND an awesome mechanic like landfall, god knows what they'll do to manlands or anything else in the future.
This just in: Zendikar Development team goes "old school" by giving us Goblin King and Mons Goblin Raiders in the m2011. They've also printed the following card:
Goblin of Kher Keep (R)
Creature - Goblin C
~ text about how goblins took over kher keep because I figure someone at WOTC actually played magic at one time.~
0/1
That's right kiddies - it combos with Goblin Grenade* (* not reprinted in M2011).
Jesus christ, get the **** over it. Its a common. Come on. You really have nothing better in your life to do thn try and get people FIRED from thier jobs because YOU DONT LIKE A CARD from a set?
You've actually got to be joking
this is a sick joke
Zendikar = Mirrodin/Urza reborn, just with more money rares and mythic bull ****. I hope to god we get another Masques block after this, jumping man on a ****ing pogo stick.
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The card was already revealed. Failure to read the thread = spam warning. Also, failure to be funny.
you know what, this is a forum for people who like magic, and want to discuss magic. it seems besides the point and a waste of everyone's time to use this forum as a soap box to scream at people who aren't even listening to you.
What do you expect to achieve by bashing on this card? These threads are infinitely more pathetic than the bad cards Wizards prints. How do you live as a human being with this attitude? "If I don't like it, people need to conform to me"? The world doesn't revolve around you.
This is the kind of attitude that gives magic players the "no girlfriend, no social skills and bad hygeine" reputation. If anyone should disappear, it's you.
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"Wizards could put $100 bills in packs and people would complain about how they were folded." - from Dr Jeebus's Sig
for people new to the game to understand what's a good and a bad card. This will teach a lot how to draft, make decks, or played sealed.
Does R&D really believe that new players are that low in intellect? Mindless Null doesn't provide a challenge of figuring out that the card is bad, it just sticks out as being that bad when looking through packs and comparing it to the other commons. The puzzle of figuring out if it's bad or not isn't there, it's like telling someone to solve a 4 piece jigsaw puzzle and hoping that they have a challenge in figuring it out.
Undead Warchief makes him cost :1mana::symb:, and then he'd be a 4/3 that can't block unless you control a Vampire.
This is a lot of anger over a simple card. FIRING someone?? Really? It's just one little common. In fact, I'm gonna run this zombie in all of my limited decks from now on just to spite the OP. Wizards prints what it wants. It doesn't have to live up to an unnecessarily high standard established by *****y players.
yes, i know people that can't play magic unless they get a deck from the net, and whatever other decks they've put together are pretty terrible. i'm actually about to teach my girlfriend how to draft next weekend... good times :3
i also forgot to mention in my last post that yes, this is a lot of hate. i wouldn't say fire the person, but give them a reward for making some RAGE so much.
If you don't like it [your car], stop driving.
If you don't like it [the tax system], stop paying your taxes.
If you don't like it [the taste of your medicine], stop taking your meds.
I apologize if this has been addressed, I'm a bit short on time so I don't have time to read everything.
The above comparisons are absolutely nothing in common with Magic: The Gathering. Driving, taxes and medicines are more often than not straight up requirements.
I adore a debate, and I hate the argument "If you don't like it then quit!" argument just as much as everyone else. It still irks me when someone tries to make an argument like this though. You can quit magic without a single detrimental outcome.
That being said, I do agree that Mindless Null is horrible. I'm not up in arms over it though. I opened a couple at the prerelease and just ignored them. I usually ignore the commons in a booster anyway. I'd say not to get worked up over it. Even if it were a 2/2 for 2 with the same drawback, it would still have been very bad compared to the rest of the 2 drops people use anyway.
If you want to fire R&D, do it because they put Lotus Cobra in a situation you'd almost never find a terrestrial snake! Dragons and fungus beasts I can believe, an arboreal cobra is just silly though!
It doesn't have to live up to an unnecessarily high standard established by *****y players.
Well, players do give Wizards the money to go on, paying for the products that they provide, so complaining is natural when the product isn't satisfactory.
Why is this such a big deal? First, its one card, as has been stated. Second, bad cards existing make this a game of skill. Good players will create decks with good cards and bad players will create decks with bad cards. If they only print perfect cards, it pushes the game towards luck rather than skill. There are enough playable cards that you don't have to play mindless null if you dont want to. Stop complaining.
What do you expect to achieve by bashing on this card? These threads are infinitely more pathetic than the bad cards Wizards prints. How do you live as a human being with this attitude? "If I don't like it, people need to conform to me"? The world doesn't revolve around you.
This is the kind of attitude that gives magic players the "no girlfriend, no social skills and bad hygeine" reputation. If anyone should disappear, it's you.
why would you attack him personally for stating his opinion on a card? i think it's fair to disagree with him, but you're not even doing that.
What he hopes to achieve - i would imagine that OP doesn't *actually* want employees to be fired. firing them would be unreasonable, a point that has already been made. we want there to be sufficient oversight in the design process of MTG. i don't think that is an unreasonable expectation for a large company that has been in business for over a decade.
is he overreacting? maybe, but it's part of drawing attention to the issue. maybe his presentation could be better, but to be quite honest the thread is full of garbage like "go disappear," "get over it", "you have nothing better to do in your life?", "it's just one card!," all of which adds nothing to the discussion.
it's unfortunate, because the topic is actually quite interesting imo. is there a minimum power level we should expect for commons? is it even worth the resources used to print the card, which will likely just be tossed out or sit in a box in a closet for years? would the set be better or worse without the card? how can wizards make bad cards without making them unplayable in any serious format?
there is the possibility for a good discussion here, but it seems most people are content to ***** at the OP and call names. it's like a micro representation of the internet at large, actually.
There's a lot of cards that could have one point extra toughness, cost 1 less, or have an extra ability, or be strictly worse than another. Some of those cards are garbage. It doesn't bother me too much. I agree with the OP that I would prefer this card to be better and more playable in limited etc., but making such a poorly construed rant doesn't really come across as a convincing argument to print the card as such. Ridiculous analogies from coffee to taxes (!) further undermined his point IMO. Wizards have consciously opted for a topdown design here, but I'd be interested to hear the facts behind its printing from WotC themselves as the card makes an interesting case.
If Wizards prints one card in every set that's as bad as this, I won't be bothered. Now if this card were a rare, then I think we'd certainly have more of a case for complaint.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Again, don't you learn from the past and improve upon yourself in the future? Mindless Null doesn't have to be Blastoderm level, but being on par to a decent level with the other common creatures in the set would have been nice. Could have done a simple addition of deathtouch and he seems ok.
Use that 20 years of experience to further polish up the game and not have commons that are obviously worst compared to recent common cards like Yugioh does.
This is worse than Scathe Zombies. 'Nuff said.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
In many cases, YuGiOh prints commons that are just straight-up worse than other cards. Basically, when playing YuGiOh, you always flip to the rare because it's the only thing that has a chance of being usable. Oh, there are a few usable YuGiOh commons...but not many.
It's not really the fact that there's a rotten common in the set that bugs me, though. I typically set aside 30-50% of the cards that I open as unplayable and never look at them again. What actually irritates me here is that, according to the OP (and I believe this), this card was not supposed to exist. Development let it through for no good reason that I have yet heard, over the objections of at least one designer. This is SLOPPY WORK.
Oh, I could see how it might be too good at 2 mana. I played the stupid-aggro draft deck yesterday, and it was terrifying. But they could have done something to Mindless Null to fix it, and they should have, and they were TOLD to, and they didn't.
I like about 90% of this set, but Mindless Null's existence and Lotus Cobra's rarity are going to spawn a nasty letter...
So it's good for that at very least
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
If you opened a Scathe Zombies, would you play it? No.
If you open a Mindless Null, will you play it? No.
In practical use, Mindless Null isn't any worse than another unplayable card. They all have effectively zero value since they're not in your deck.
If you're really really starving for an gray ogre due to having the ****tiest pool in the world, you might play it. But then it really is inconsequential since you probably won't win.
There's no need to have a melodramatic tantrum, even if this was a mistake. Black aggro is powerful in Limited as it is...Vampire Lacerator, Surrakar Marauder and Guul Draz Vampire tear it UP. No one is even going to notice the Nulls unless they want to give themselves something to be upset about.
Commander
R Ashling, the Pilgrim Mono Red Wildfire Control
GBW Karador, Ghost Chieftain Abzan Dredge Rock
WBR Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Mardu Aggro-Reanimator Midrange
Design always passes off cards that are aggressively costed to Development. Then it is development's job to ensure that the cards are appropriately costed for constructed and limited. If the story is true, then it is Development's decision to keep it at at that casting cost for a reason that I hope will be explain in a column someday.
Still, I don't think they have done anything yet that deserves them losing their jobs and your defamation of their reputation.
By the way, I didn't vote in the poll because there weren't any option that was just "No" or "No. I don't care."
There are a lot of crappy cards.
I am developing my own card game right now. When I mock up cards I use stuff like Hunger of the Nim (a combat trick card at sorcery speed) or Devour in Shadow ( a two mana Kill Spell with a drawback) well I can't think of a card that's better then that...oh wait Terror.
Sometimes Wizards prints toilet paper. Wipe, and move on.
There's no proof she's being chased
by ninja squirrels either. - Dr. Wilson
Scathe is a classic and shows Wizard's past with their designs. Mindless is a new card that shows what kind of designs are made with having 20 years of experience.
That's probably the main upset, seeing designs that could have been polished more but they decided not to, even after 20 years of knowing and having all of that knowledge, they just decide not to.
But yeah, I'll say pretty much what the majority said here. This may be a poor excuse of a card, but it's pretty asinine to say that people need to be fired over one card. Yeah, it was a mistake, and yeah, I don't find it excusable to keep it, but it's one ****** card. The developers brought you so many other cards that you enjoy. I voted boobs.
scornful egotist is one of the best blue creatures of all time.
Now, using Scornful Egotist, we can quite clearly see that WotC had been putting in a fluff creature in most sets, and this applies well throughout the many many sets from SCOURGE onwards. Hell, you can easily find terrible creatures from before then.
A lot of these cards are one of WotC's MtG's R&D team's way to relieve some stress by trying to make one terrible creature in a set, but it's also bound to be some requirement for a set; for people new to the game to understand what's a good and a bad card. This will teach a lot how to draft, make decks, or played sealed.
Regardless, the way that I see Null is that you'll most likely have some other vampire out, especially since there are a LOT of one or two drops vampires in Zen. At best? A >2/2 creature. At worst? A 2/2 that can't block.
One of the few worst cards of the set? Sure. Is it the worst? Not sure, but I'll be completing my Zen review soon enough to say for sure.
Myr WUBRG
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Jesus christ, get the **** over it. Its a common. Come on. You really have nothing better in your life to do thn try and get people FIRED from thier jobs because YOU DONT LIKE A CARD from a set?
You've actually got to be joking
this is a sick joke
This is the kind of attitude that gives magic players the "no girlfriend, no social skills and bad hygeine" reputation. If anyone should disappear, it's you.
Does R&D really believe that new players are that low in intellect? Mindless Null doesn't provide a challenge of figuring out that the card is bad, it just sticks out as being that bad when looking through packs and comparing it to the other commons. The puzzle of figuring out if it's bad or not isn't there, it's like telling someone to solve a 4 piece jigsaw puzzle and hoping that they have a challenge in figuring it out.
Undead Warchief makes him cost :1mana::symb:, and then he'd be a 4/3 that can't block unless you control a Vampire.
This is a lot of anger over a simple card. FIRING someone?? Really? It's just one little common. In fact, I'm gonna run this zombie in all of my limited decks from now on just to spite the OP. Wizards prints what it wants. It doesn't have to live up to an unnecessarily high standard established by *****y players.
Like freeform roleplaying? Try Darkness Befalls Us
Ryttare Kelasin Luna Orelinalei
yes, i know people that can't play magic unless they get a deck from the net, and whatever other decks they've put together are pretty terrible. i'm actually about to teach my girlfriend how to draft next weekend... good times :3
i also forgot to mention in my last post that yes, this is a lot of hate. i wouldn't say fire the person, but give them a reward for making some RAGE so much.
Myr WUBRG
Leg
W Stacks
Vint
U Stacks
Set Reviews
SoM: Coming out soon
I apologize if this has been addressed, I'm a bit short on time so I don't have time to read everything.
The above comparisons are absolutely nothing in common with Magic: The Gathering. Driving, taxes and medicines are more often than not straight up requirements.
I adore a debate, and I hate the argument "If you don't like it then quit!" argument just as much as everyone else. It still irks me when someone tries to make an argument like this though. You can quit magic without a single detrimental outcome.
That being said, I do agree that Mindless Null is horrible. I'm not up in arms over it though. I opened a couple at the prerelease and just ignored them. I usually ignore the commons in a booster anyway. I'd say not to get worked up over it. Even if it were a 2/2 for 2 with the same drawback, it would still have been very bad compared to the rest of the 2 drops people use anyway.
If you want to fire R&D, do it because they put Lotus Cobra in a situation you'd almost never find a terrestrial snake! Dragons and fungus beasts I can believe, an arboreal cobra is just silly though!
Well, players do give Wizards the money to go on, paying for the products that they provide, so complaining is natural when the product isn't satisfactory.
L2 Judge
Mindless Null is a bad card, yes. But somebody LOSING THEIR JOB over it? You're out of your mind.
why would you attack him personally for stating his opinion on a card? i think it's fair to disagree with him, but you're not even doing that.
What he hopes to achieve - i would imagine that OP doesn't *actually* want employees to be fired. firing them would be unreasonable, a point that has already been made. we want there to be sufficient oversight in the design process of MTG. i don't think that is an unreasonable expectation for a large company that has been in business for over a decade.
is he overreacting? maybe, but it's part of drawing attention to the issue. maybe his presentation could be better, but to be quite honest the thread is full of garbage like "go disappear," "get over it", "you have nothing better to do in your life?", "it's just one card!," all of which adds nothing to the discussion.
it's unfortunate, because the topic is actually quite interesting imo. is there a minimum power level we should expect for commons? is it even worth the resources used to print the card, which will likely just be tossed out or sit in a box in a closet for years? would the set be better or worse without the card? how can wizards make bad cards without making them unplayable in any serious format?
there is the possibility for a good discussion here, but it seems most people are content to ***** at the OP and call names. it's like a micro representation of the internet at large, actually.