everyone seems to be hating on Bloodchief Ascension....why? fortunately, i'm not the only person who sees that this is going to be like Bitterblossom in epicness. too many people have forgotten (or never knew) about the Crumbling Sanctuary RDW mill deck a while back. the new combo works like a reversed version of that.
The problem is that people are using it in a mill deck, when it is so much more efficient to use it with earthquakes, bloodghast and volcanic fallout.
Whiping the board and killing 4 creatures is a lifeswing of 16
anyone think of putting bloodchief ascension into a jund ramp deck with lavalanche? wipe their board, deal damage to then, and then hurt them again with the ascensions ability because you wiped their board.
example: lavalanche them for 4, they have 4 creatures with toughness 4 or less. they take 4 damage, their creatures die, and then with a charged ascension they take 16. 20 damage - one turn.
and instead of draw, cant you just use diabolic tutor to get a guarantee ascension?
heres my idea of red black version of "bloodchief hurt"
the lavalanches can simply be replaced with earthquakes, which would probably be better in the jund one. if you wipe them twice (one volcanic fallout, one earthquake), with both wipes on a full charges ascension, you should win.
I do think you need to put the asscension into an aggro shell. It's too vulnerable to be your only win-con other than mill. You're also putting yourself in a difficult position if you don't draw the asscension turn 1. Standard is a pretty fast environment right now and you need it on the board immeadiatly so it can go off before your opponenet can deal with it.
The nice thing about the archive trap is that it costs 0 when it triggers. You don't need a single blue mana on the table to ding them with it. You also can pack more threats in an aggro deck. Sure, they will probably still deal with Bloodchief, but they need to suffer for that choice.
Recent discussions here and elsewhere have made it clear that there seems to be a group of players who consider blue and control synonymous, as if they somehow started playing a game with four identical and "bad" colors that do nothing interesting because they just "turn men sideways" and then true, glorious blue, the only thinking person's color.
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
So... yeah someone's mentioned it before. Trying to come up with a few versions myself... still haven't taken the time to post any of them but I'll try to get around to it.
I don't think this is going to work out as a combo deck, as the card pushes your deck in two different directions.
It could just work in a rakdos aggro deck though. You'll be doing the damage to get the counters on, and you'll also be playing removal to put some of their cards in the graveyard as well.
In aggro vs aggro, you drop it early, and start racing the opponent. Once you've done this for a few turns the ascension will have triggered and you start to remove their creatures, which pulls you out of deaths range, and puts them closer to dead.
as long as there is an alternate win con, its not a bad idea. infact, its an amazing idea to go the grixis route, but i can't help but imagine the look on everyones face who plays this card when i just drop a pithing needle or thought hemmorage. whats the backup plan for this deck? i'm guessing it just becomes mill then.
I actually run a Bloodchief Ascension/Archive Trap Combo Deck . The only way for it to work is to make it mostly a R/B burn deck and run Archive Trap in the sideboard and play it against anyone who runs fetch-lands. Any other way isn't gonna get consistant wins. The B/U version won't work well because creatures and Hideous End effects don't always get there, and even if they do work they'll work too slow. It's important to get the Bloodchief Ascensions online by turn 3-4 at the latest so they can work for you before the opponent can do anything about them. Burn can do this the quickest and most effecient, especially Blightning. Check my deck out at the link below and let me know what you think.
I like this build because it dosen't NEED the Bloodchief Ascensions to win a game. It can just burn and beat without them if it has to. The Archive Traps work well in my sideboard because they don't work against everybody and those they do work well against never see them coming. MWAA HA HA HA! (sorry). Not to mention, splashing in blue and finding black/blue cards that do direct damage is a pain in the neck. If anyone tries to do this they're going to get a very much watered-down build of the Bloodchief Ascension deck that takes way longer to win than a R/B/u build like mine does.
as long as there is an alternate win con, its not a bad idea. infact, its an amazing idea to go the grixis route, but i can't help but imagine the look on everyones face who plays this card when i just drop a pithing needle or thought hemmorage. whats the backup plan for this deck? i'm guessing it just becomes mill then.
Exactly, that's why the only way to go with this card is a sligh build. Pithing Needle dosen't do anything to Bloodchief Ascension, because it's a triggered ability instead of an activated one, but a Thought Hemorrhage eats the U/B version's face because they don't have a back-up plan in case that happens.
With my Bloodchief Ascension deck, I could just run Hell's Thunders and Lightning Bolt to the opponent's face for the win. Ascension is just a bonus to help in the mid to long game, especially with Archive Trap boarded in.
Congrats, your opponent just made PTE the best removal spell in the history of the game.
Rofl true, in the defense of the poster you quoted though if bloodchief was online it might, once in a blue moon, be worth it to not search. (only if you knew they had an archive trap in hand).
I've been here for a while, just pretty much perusing all of your deck ideas and I believe i have a build [with sideboard] that may be tournament viable.
So, is this maybe a viable W/U/B build for tournament play? I've killed with it pretty easily. That said, it needs a bit more work, I'm sure [that's why I've come to you lol].
Might be meaner in Grixis colors. Blightning is a great way to activate it, AND it hits for 7 once the ascension is online. Volcanic Fallout is another winner red has to offer. Double negative is great for cascade. Terminate. Sedraxis Specter might be a good time.
Might be meaner in Grixis colors. Blightning is a great way to activate it, AND it hits for 7 once the ascension is online. Volcanic Fallout is another winner red has to offer. Double negative is great for cascade. Terminate. Sedraxis Specter might be a good time.
While I don't deny that Red would really help out this deck style, I kind of like the idea of keeping white, since, you do have PtE, and Punish Ignorance, even if you are losing Blightning in the process. You also have better support in the sideboard with Meddling Mage, in my opinion.
That said, I also made this deck because I have a U/B/R creatureless deck in Extended that I am sick of using... Another Grixis-color deck isn't going to make playing in tournaments any bit more enjoyable, even if I do win it. lol
22 lands is a little thin.
You think so? I've used 22 lands in my decks for a long time and I haven't gotten mana screwed all that often, really. What would be a better land base for this specific deck, and what would I replace? if you could help with that I'd be happy to try to oblige.
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Look at me! I can bold words and use CAPSLOCK to emphasize my point! Hopefully I can trick people into ignoring that I completely have no evidence in my post to back up my claims if I make it look fancy enough.
Since the Strix can be a recurring enabler for the Ascension, it is, at least to me, heavily favored over the Wall. That said, I like the idea of using Wall of Frost or Wall of Denial to maybe help defend against heavy aggro?
erm, go four color, drop crappy counterspells and unnecessary cards like punish ignorence and strix?
I think that'd be the right idea. grixis colors with white splash for path. you'd be able to handle threats like Thrinax and still be able to activate ascension. otherwise, the combo just feels fat and slow.
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Exactly...that's why the only way to do it is as I referrenced on post #72. Any other way in this standard won't even be tier 4. My way kills at FNM..as long as it dosen't get mana-screwed.
That said, I also made this deck because I have a U/B/R creatureless deck in Extended that I am sick of using... Another Grixis-color deck isn't going to make playing in tournaments any bit more enjoyable, even if I do win it. lol
I thought we were talking about making a winning deck, not your distaste for particular combinations of colors. Your tastes are valid, but dismissing red...the ideal color for getting the Ascension online...okay.
You think so? I've used 22 lands in my decks for a long time and I haven't gotten mana screwed all that often, really. What would be a better land base for this specific deck, and what would I replace? if you could help with that I'd be happy to try to oblige.
I don't know what to tell you. While nothing in that deck is (ideally) above 4 to cast, a three-color combo deck with 22 lands, and no fetches or duals looks woefully inconsistent to me. There are only 7 lands in that deck that will let you play your flagship card on turn 1.
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The problem is that people are using it in a mill deck, when it is so much more efficient to use it with earthquakes, bloodghast and volcanic fallout.
Whiping the board and killing 4 creatures is a lifeswing of 16
example: lavalanche them for 4, they have 4 creatures with toughness 4 or less. they take 4 damage, their creatures die, and then with a charged ascension they take 16. 20 damage - one turn.
and instead of draw, cant you just use diabolic tutor to get a guarantee ascension?
heres my idea of red black version of "bloodchief hurt"
4 bloodchief ascension
4 diabolic tutor
4 sign in blood
4 volcanic fallout
4 earthquake
3 lightning bolt
heres my idea for jund ramp lavalanche version
4 sprouting thrinax
4 broodmate dragon
3 borderland ranger / birds of paradise
4 bloodchief ascension
4 diabolic tutor
4 harrow
2 khalni heart expedition
1 rampant growth
4 volcanic fallout
3 lightning bolt
4 lavalanche
the lavalanches can simply be replaced with earthquakes, which would probably be better in the jund one. if you wipe them twice (one volcanic fallout, one earthquake), with both wipes on a full charges ascension, you should win.
The nice thing about the archive trap is that it costs 0 when it triggers. You don't need a single blue mana on the table to ding them with it. You also can pack more threats in an aggro deck. Sure, they will probably still deal with Bloodchief, but they need to suffer for that choice.
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UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
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Path to Exile + Archive Trap
http://stat.rumandmonkey.com/tests/1/6/5261/20801.jpg
EDH decks
Marath, Will of the Wild
Sygg, River Cutthroat
Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
Marchesa, the Black Rose
PTE does not force a search
Congrats, your opponent just made PTE the best removal spell in the history of the game.
This has been yet another random post by Anubis.
I'll try to come up with a list and post it later. Not using that ^ btw just a normal Grixis variant.
Then you obviously missed the OP.
And a few others...
So... yeah someone's mentioned it before. Trying to come up with a few versions myself... still haven't taken the time to post any of them but I'll try to get around to it.
It could just work in a rakdos aggro deck though. You'll be doing the damage to get the counters on, and you'll also be playing removal to put some of their cards in the graveyard as well.
In aggro vs aggro, you drop it early, and start racing the opponent. Once you've done this for a few turns the ascension will have triggered and you start to remove their creatures, which pulls you out of deaths range, and puts them closer to dead.
[[b]B]DCI Level 2 Judge[/B][/b]Edit-Here's the decklist:
4 Bloodghast
4 Goblin Guide
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Hell's Thunder
4 Bloodchief Ascension
4 Blightning
4 Terminate
3 Earthquake
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
4 Crumbling Necropolis
4 Dragonskull Summit
7 Swamp
6 Mountain
Sideboard:
4 Archive Trap
4 Duress
4 Pithing Needle
3 Manabarbs
I like this build because it dosen't NEED the Bloodchief Ascensions to win a game. It can just burn and beat without them if it has to. The Archive Traps work well in my sideboard because they don't work against everybody and those they do work well against never see them coming. MWAA HA HA HA! (sorry). Not to mention, splashing in blue and finding black/blue cards that do direct damage is a pain in the neck. If anyone tries to do this they're going to get a very much watered-down build of the Bloodchief Ascension deck that takes way longer to win than a R/B/u build like mine does.
Exactly, that's why the only way to go with this card is a sligh build. Pithing Needle dosen't do anything to Bloodchief Ascension, because it's a triggered ability instead of an activated one, but a Thought Hemorrhage eats the U/B version's face because they don't have a back-up plan in case that happens.
With my Bloodchief Ascension deck, I could just run Hell's Thunders and Lightning Bolt to the opponent's face for the win. Ascension is just a bonus to help in the mid to long game, especially with Archive Trap boarded in.
Rofl true, in the defense of the poster you quoted though if bloodchief was online it might, once in a blue moon, be worth it to not search. (only if you knew they had an archive trap in hand).
5 Plains
6 Island
7 Swamp
4 Arcane Sanctum
CREATURES: 8
4 Parasitic Strix
4 Tidehollow Strix
ENCHANTMENTS: 4
4 Bloodchief Ascension
4 Archive Trap
4 Path to Exile
4 Hideous End
4 Countersquall
4 Sign in Blood
4 Punish Ignorance
2 Mind Funeral
4 Meddling Mage
3 Pithing Needle
3 Agony Warp
3 Esper Charm
2 Mind Funeral
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
22 lands is a little thin.
While I don't deny that Red would really help out this deck style, I kind of like the idea of keeping white, since, you do have PtE, and Punish Ignorance, even if you are losing Blightning in the process. You also have better support in the sideboard with Meddling Mage, in my opinion.
That said, I also made this deck because I have a U/B/R creatureless deck in Extended that I am sick of using... Another Grixis-color deck isn't going to make playing in tournaments any bit more enjoyable, even if I do win it. lol
You think so? I've used 22 lands in my decks for a long time and I haven't gotten mana screwed all that often, really. What would be a better land base for this specific deck, and what would I replace? if you could help with that I'd be happy to try to oblige.
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Jwar Isle Refuge
5 Island
8 Swamp
4 Bloodghast
4 Vampire Lacerator
4 Parasitic Strix
Mill:
4 Mind Funeral
3 Archive Trap
4 Bloodchief Ascension
4 Hideous End
4 Countersquall
4 Agony Warp
4 Sign in Blood
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
Since the Strix can be a recurring enabler for the Ascension, it is, at least to me, heavily favored over the Wall. That said, I like the idea of using Wall of Frost or Wall of Denial to maybe help defend against heavy aggro?
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
I think that'd be the right idea. grixis colors with white splash for path. you'd be able to handle threats like Thrinax and still be able to activate ascension. otherwise, the combo just feels fat and slow.
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Actual Truth:
Exactly...that's why the only way to do it is as I referrenced on post #72. Any other way in this standard won't even be tier 4. My way kills at FNM..as long as it dosen't get mana-screwed.
I thought we were talking about making a winning deck, not your distaste for particular combinations of colors. Your tastes are valid, but dismissing red...the ideal color for getting the Ascension online...okay.
I don't know what to tell you. While nothing in that deck is (ideally) above 4 to cast, a three-color combo deck with 22 lands, and no fetches or duals looks woefully inconsistent to me. There are only 7 lands in that deck that will let you play your flagship card on turn 1.