Instant Counter target spell. If the spell is countered this way, remove it from the game with three time counters on it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard. If it doesn't have suspend, it gains suspend.
Although Remand cantrips, Delay puts it away for another 3 turns, whereas in the late game, a Remand is generally not as good compared to the early game as your opponent most likely can recast whatever it was you just remanded. Delay is equally good in the early game as in the late game, as it will give you 3 turns of breathing space either way. Also, situational cards (eg. auras, pump-spells, removal) may very well be irrelevant 3 turns later. The creature you wanted to pump with giant growth? I terror'ed it 2 turns later. You wanted to shatter my platinum angel? Too late, I only needed another turn to finish you off. Tooth and Nail for Mephidross/Triskelion to wipe the board? Gonna have to wait on that one.
Special Bonus Ability! If you have Teferi in play, and cast Delay on an opponent's spell, it's basically a hard counter for 1U so long as Teferi is still in play 3 turns later, as when the last counter is removed on your opponent's upkeep, Teferi doesn't let your opponent play the spell.
Teferi loves Delay. Teferi plus Delay is like peanutbutter and jelly, or like hot chicks plus even more hot chicks.
I'd play it... If I played any form of blue control whatsoever. However, I feel that remand is MUCH better in the early stages of a game, whereas this is better late game.
Think of this though:
Wrath of God//Damnation type decks like to blow up all your guys and then play out some fatty or some of their own guys to go all the way. This can delay the inevitable, but FORCES them to either play into their own wrath (by playing those creatures so they die anyway) or take even more damage from a beatstick or two.
BEFORE anybody says: "Well, they can just play another Wrath" think about it... yes they can play another wrath, then what? play one of their own threats only to wrath their own guy away in a couple turns anyway? Or give you time to draw into more threats of yours to help match theirs? Either way it helps.
Remand is a Time Walk (Excepting their land drop) in the early game...
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Remand is clearly the better choice by a margin of more than a bunch of a lot of a tremendous amount.
Why is delay so hyped? Jeez. Remand forces them to spend more mana on it. Delay DOESN'T. It kind of sucks, really. It's a slightly improved Ertai's Meddling
Remand cantrips, and thats a huge advantage. The problem with Delay is the card disadvantage it provides, but its a good counter as long as its used in the right deck.
Delay sacrifices card advantage for MASSIVE tempo advantage. Aggro and combo decks with blue should definitely be running this (probably in addition to remand).
If your opponent is playing something backbreaking (wrath/damnation against aggro, persecute against combo) this not only stops them from playing it this turn, but also for the next three turns. Sure, in four turns, they get it for free, but by then you should have either A) won, or B) set yourself up in a position where the card will not affect you. And if you can resolve a teferi in the interim, they lose the spell entirely.
As for anyone saying this is just an Ertai's Meddling, think about it this way: this is effectively meddling with X=3, for the cost of X=1. That's pretty good in anyone's book. Just like Mana Leak is essentially a Power Sink effect with x=3 for 1 mana, and is powerful.
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not getting a draw makes a HUGE difference. also, they don't even have to pay for the spell after the wait. how can this card even be compared to remand?
remand has a very extreme advantage. it'd be playable even if counterspell was still legal. the purpose of remand is only a small part because of it's ability to counter. if we wanted a hard counter in the deck, remand wouldn't be there.
delay plays the role of a very bad cancel. i find this card having a hard time competing simply with mana leak.
I think it could see some play in an agressive deck to set back Wraths by a few turns. They could play a second wrath, but then the first would end up not doing much.
Remand forces them to spend more mana on it. Delay DOESN'T.
Could you post a scan of one of your Remands? The ones I'm finding on the internet don't seem to have this clause, and I could have sworn I've played against people who've Remanded something I've cast, then I didn't play it again the next turn, and they didn't call me on it.
In the meantime, yes, Delay is better than Remand.
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Although Delay doesn't draw the card like Remand, it buys you a crapload of time. If you're playing an aggro deck and they drop a Wrath or something like that, they'll need to wait 3 more turns before the spell resolves while you can beat them down. Remand doesn't do that, because they can just Wrath next turn.
Also, in the late game, Remand just becomes a cycling card, while if you Delay a spell on turn 9+, they'll still have to wait for it to resolve.
And the Teferi interaction is also icing on the cake as well.
not getting a draw makes a HUGE difference. also, they don't even have to pay for the spell after the wait. how can this card even be compared to remand?
remand has a very extreme advantage. it'd be playable even if counterspell was still legal. the purpose of remand is only a small part because of it's ability to counter. if we wanted a hard counter in the deck, remand wouldn't be there.
delay plays the role of a very bad cancel. i find this card having a hard time competing simply with mana leak.
SentimentGX4 doesn't like it. This is a surefire sign that it is good.
How on earth is delay a bad cancel? It does something COMPLETELY different!
This is directly comprable to remand, not mana leak or cancel, because it provides tempo rather than actually countering the spell. In decks that use remand for tempo purposes (especially aggro decks, which generally use it solidify their tempo lead) this is superior, because the tempo gain is so much greater. In decks that use remand as a cantrip, this is probably worse. But those kinds of decks generally don't run counters beyond remand, choosing instead cards like Repeal (the exception here is Spell Burst for its ability to lock people out of the game with tron).
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Delay sacrifices card advantage for MASSIVE tempo advantage. Aggro and combo decks with blue should definitely be running this (probably in addition to remand).
By this, I can only assume that you have a misconception as to what tempo is. You gain tempo advantage by spending less mana to neutralize your opponent's action than he spent on that action. So if you Remand an opponent's spell that costed him 5 mana, you netted 3 in tempo advantage. The problem with Delay is that you didn't really neutralize anything in the long term. It would be different if you opponent would then have to recast the spell again. But as it is, it has just as much initial tempo as Remand (as they cost the same) but less potential long-term tempo advantage.
I know what you were trying to say, but tempo wasn't the term you were looking for.
By this, I can only assume that you have a misconception as to what tempo is. You gain tempo advantage by spending less mana to neutralize your opponent's action than he spent on that action. So if you Remand an opponent's spell that costed him 5 mana, you netted 3 in tempo advantage. The problem with Delay is that you didn't really neutralize anything in the long term. It would be different if you opponent would then have to recast the spell again. But as it is, it has just as much initial tempo as Remand (as they cost the same) but less potential long-term tempo advantage.
I know what you were trying to say, but tempo wasn't the term you were looking for.
Er, that really has nothing to do with tempo. In fact...I have no idea what that's called. Mana advantage?
Tempo is basically how quickly you get your game (aka, your deck) going and active. For aggro that means how quickly you can get your mana and pump out critters, for control it's card-drawing and locking your opponent, etc.
Delay is waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than cancel! I can't believe someone tried arguing otherwise.
I really like the design of this card, and that does not happen enough with counters. It is a conditional counter that is just as effective turn 2 as it is turn 22 without being a hard counter.
By this, I can only assume that you have a misconception as to what tempo is. You gain tempo advantage by spending less mana to neutralize your opponent's action than he spent on that action. So if you Remand an opponent's spell that costed him 5 mana, you netted 3 in tempo advantage. The problem with Delay is that you didn't really neutralize anything in the long term. It would be different if you opponent would then have to recast the spell again. But as it is, it has just as much initial tempo as Remand (as they cost the same) but less potential long-term tempo advantage.
I know what you were trying to say, but tempo wasn't the term you were looking for.
You are thinking of "mana advantage" actually. Tempo literally means time. If you read columns on it, you will realize that this does give you a massive tempo advantage through sheer virtue of the time advantage it gives you. If your opponent is playing something like Wrath or Spectral Force that will stabilize their side of the board, playing this is a massive tempo swing, since you effectively neutralize their threat to the point where it loses its meaning (you either kill them or prepare for it by the time their spell would resolve). IN decks that can win in the three turns following when they play this, this is essentially a splashable hardcounter. Remanding a wrath means unless you can kill them in the one turn you buy yourself, they will wrath again, and stabilize, and you will likely lose. This gives you far longer to accomdate for the spell or finish them off.
And late game, it is loads better. This is probably one of the best lategame counters printed in a long time. For a cheap price that only uses one of your blues, you stop your opponent from playing his spell. Unlike remand, he can't just recast it. And unlike mana leak, he can't just pay. This effectively cancels them for U less late game. Sure, you will have to actually deal with the spell if three more turns go by and it is still relevant. But it is still an amazing lategame response.
Also, it hardcounters other counterspells and X-spells.
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no, delay is comparable to mana leak and not remand. this is because for it's price, most ppl would rather just counter the freaking spell rather than make them wait 3 more turns for it. remand's purpose is to DRAW. this is very obvious. i can't see why anyone can't see this. countering is second priority. doesn't delay seem much worse now that you see it that way? this is between getting rid of the spell for good or letting them cast it later.
ppl tend to love to compare to remand but they don't realize that this usually really isn't that valid. remand is extremely good to be able to dominate type 2. not a single counter has been this influential for the past 5 years- not even counterspell. it's all hype when we find a new card and say it's better than remand. this is highly unlikely and would be highly unusual. we might not see another remand for a long time...
Everyone commenting on how bad delay is doesn't understand the meaning of tempo - or of an aggro deck for that matter. How many times will an opp. have two wraths in hand? If they dont, and u have 4-5 power on the board, youve won anyways. If they do, that means they have 2 wraths left in their deck - and you will have another answer.
The real power of delay, imo, is seen in a fish deck. Envision this:
turn 1 lions, turn 2 blade of the 6th pride, turn 3 -5, remand/delay anything they play. gg?
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Could you post a scan of one of your Remands? The ones I'm finding on the internet don't seem to have this clause, and I could have sworn I've played against people who've Remanded something I've cast, then I didn't play it again the next turn, and they didn't call me on it.
In the meantime, yes, Delay is better than Remand.
Um, and the second time that you played it, you played it for free? The thing that makes Remand better than Delay in the early game, even without the cantrip effect is that with Remand, you must pay the casting cost twice to actually play the targeted card. With Delay, you just go about your business, safe in the knowledge that your spell will (baring Teferi), resolve 2 turns later, or cost them yet another card to deal with properly.
And if you didn't play it the next turn, did you ever play it? If you didn't, well Remand may as well have been a hard counter. Otherwise, it got your opponent the same delaying effect as Delay, only trading the extra flexibility that you got from deciding when to play the card with the fact you had to pay twice and an extra card. Sounds like a pretty good trade to me.
Yeah, Delay's probably better, just, in the late game. The two together are just rude, of course
Otherwise, most of the time, Remand is, by far the better card. But, it does depend on why you want them in the deck. If you're actually trying to prevent something specific, like, say Wrath, then you probably want Delay. If you're just trying to gather tempo and cycle cards, Remand is so much better that it's just not funny.
Than and then are very different words.
"I'm going to have more than Natalie Portman" is quite different from "I'm going to have more, then Natalie Portman".
It depends so much on the situation to give a straight answer. As was said earlier to prevent someone from stabilizing the board delay is a better choice but to gain tempo and card advantage remand is better. Also it depends on the spell youre countering. If the opponent has enough mana to cast the spell a second time that turn then delay is obviously the better card. Early game remand is a much better choice since someone is most likely to tap out then. Delay is better late in the game when more often than not remand will just mean playing the only card they have in their hand a second time that turn.
It very much depends on the situation and the deck to determine which one is better at which time.
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no cantrip. the spells is lying there in 3 turns. nah. remands better. kinda like a timewalk; saves you from on bad spell, gives you extra draw (pray to the top decking gods)...
remand is like the foreplay of blue mages then it gives them the orgasmic top deck!
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Well, I think it rather depends on the deck you are running. If we're talking a Draw-go control deck using a Teh Fairy win condition, then Delay is significantly stronger. Teh Fairy turns it into a straight up hard counter for 1U. Even without something to prevent the spell from being recast, 3 turns is a *really* long time.
Taking an aggressive two or three drop out of the game for three turns will keep you very much alive, perhaps if only long enough to get the mana for ***.
Further more, late game, Delay might as well be "1U: Counter target spell." Since that thing ain't coming back.
Also, a lot of spells in this game are time critical. Part of the reason Teh Fairy is so strong, is because he prevents fast effect spells from messing up with his combat. This spell has a lot of the same effect in that it can remove a relevant spell from the game that won't have the same effect later on. Heck, bounce a Moldervine cloak for three turns, and then make sure you're the only one with creatures in play when it resolves.
At this point I would say they are just really different, and no need to point out the pros and cons of each; I think previous posts already covered them all.
What I'd like to point out though that Delay is similar to Pact of Negation in a sense that The Pact wouldn't care paying for the "pact" cost if the next turn woudn't come. Same thing for Delay. It is essentially a hard counter if the game would end in less than 3 turns.
NO WAY! Remand is soooo much better the extra card is the only reason, however it is still a very good card to screw combos over. Tack a draw a card on to it and then yes
Delay :1mana::symu:
Instant Counter target spell. If the spell is countered this way, remove it from the game with three time counters on it instead of putting it into its owner's graveyard. If it doesn't have suspend, it gains suspend.
Although Remand cantrips, Delay puts it away for another 3 turns, whereas in the late game, a Remand is generally not as good compared to the early game as your opponent most likely can recast whatever it was you just remanded. Delay is equally good in the early game as in the late game, as it will give you 3 turns of breathing space either way. Also, situational cards (eg. auras, pump-spells, removal) may very well be irrelevant 3 turns later. The creature you wanted to pump with giant growth? I terror'ed it 2 turns later. You wanted to shatter my platinum angel? Too late, I only needed another turn to finish you off. Tooth and Nail for Mephidross/Triskelion to wipe the board? Gonna have to wait on that one.
Special Bonus Ability! If you have Teferi in play, and cast Delay on an opponent's spell, it's basically a hard counter for 1U so long as Teferi is still in play 3 turns later, as when the last counter is removed on your opponent's upkeep, Teferi doesn't let your opponent play the spell.
Teferi loves Delay. Teferi plus Delay is like peanutbutter and jelly, or like hot chicks plus even more hot chicks.
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Think of this though:
Wrath of God//Damnation type decks like to blow up all your guys and then play out some fatty or some of their own guys to go all the way. This can delay the inevitable, but FORCES them to either play into their own wrath (by playing those creatures so they die anyway) or take even more damage from a beatstick or two.
BEFORE anybody says: "Well, they can just play another Wrath" think about it... yes they can play another wrath, then what? play one of their own threats only to wrath their own guy away in a couple turns anyway? Or give you time to draw into more threats of yours to help match theirs? Either way it helps.
Remand is a Time Walk (Excepting their land drop) in the early game...
Depends on the deck you want to run.
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Why is delay so hyped? Jeez. Remand forces them to spend more mana on it. Delay DOESN'T. It kind of sucks, really. It's a slightly improved Ertai's Meddling
If your opponent is playing something backbreaking (wrath/damnation against aggro, persecute against combo) this not only stops them from playing it this turn, but also for the next three turns. Sure, in four turns, they get it for free, but by then you should have either A) won, or B) set yourself up in a position where the card will not affect you. And if you can resolve a teferi in the interim, they lose the spell entirely.
As for anyone saying this is just an Ertai's Meddling, think about it this way: this is effectively meddling with X=3, for the cost of X=1. That's pretty good in anyone's book. Just like Mana Leak is essentially a Power Sink effect with x=3 for 1 mana, and is powerful.
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remand has a very extreme advantage. it'd be playable even if counterspell was still legal. the purpose of remand is only a small part because of it's ability to counter. if we wanted a hard counter in the deck, remand wouldn't be there.
delay plays the role of a very bad cancel. i find this card having a hard time competing simply with mana leak.
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Could you post a scan of one of your Remands? The ones I'm finding on the internet don't seem to have this clause, and I could have sworn I've played against people who've Remanded something I've cast, then I didn't play it again the next turn, and they didn't call me on it.
In the meantime, yes, Delay is better than Remand.
Although Delay doesn't draw the card like Remand, it buys you a crapload of time. If you're playing an aggro deck and they drop a Wrath or something like that, they'll need to wait 3 more turns before the spell resolves while you can beat them down. Remand doesn't do that, because they can just Wrath next turn.
Also, in the late game, Remand just becomes a cycling card, while if you Delay a spell on turn 9+, they'll still have to wait for it to resolve.
And the Teferi interaction is also icing on the cake as well.
SentimentGX4 doesn't like it. This is a surefire sign that it is good.
How on earth is delay a bad cancel? It does something COMPLETELY different!
This is directly comprable to remand, not mana leak or cancel, because it provides tempo rather than actually countering the spell. In decks that use remand for tempo purposes (especially aggro decks, which generally use it solidify their tempo lead) this is superior, because the tempo gain is so much greater. In decks that use remand as a cantrip, this is probably worse. But those kinds of decks generally don't run counters beyond remand, choosing instead cards like Repeal (the exception here is Spell Burst for its ability to lock people out of the game with tron).
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By this, I can only assume that you have a misconception as to what tempo is. You gain tempo advantage by spending less mana to neutralize your opponent's action than he spent on that action. So if you Remand an opponent's spell that costed him 5 mana, you netted 3 in tempo advantage. The problem with Delay is that you didn't really neutralize anything in the long term. It would be different if you opponent would then have to recast the spell again. But as it is, it has just as much initial tempo as Remand (as they cost the same) but less potential long-term tempo advantage.
I know what you were trying to say, but tempo wasn't the term you were looking for.
Er, that really has nothing to do with tempo. In fact...I have no idea what that's called. Mana advantage?
Tempo is basically how quickly you get your game (aka, your deck) going and active. For aggro that means how quickly you can get your mana and pump out critters, for control it's card-drawing and locking your opponent, etc.
I really like the design of this card, and that does not happen enough with counters. It is a conditional counter that is just as effective turn 2 as it is turn 22 without being a hard counter.
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You are thinking of "mana advantage" actually. Tempo literally means time. If you read columns on it, you will realize that this does give you a massive tempo advantage through sheer virtue of the time advantage it gives you. If your opponent is playing something like Wrath or Spectral Force that will stabilize their side of the board, playing this is a massive tempo swing, since you effectively neutralize their threat to the point where it loses its meaning (you either kill them or prepare for it by the time their spell would resolve). IN decks that can win in the three turns following when they play this, this is essentially a splashable hardcounter. Remanding a wrath means unless you can kill them in the one turn you buy yourself, they will wrath again, and stabilize, and you will likely lose. This gives you far longer to accomdate for the spell or finish them off.
And late game, it is loads better. This is probably one of the best lategame counters printed in a long time. For a cheap price that only uses one of your blues, you stop your opponent from playing his spell. Unlike remand, he can't just recast it. And unlike mana leak, he can't just pay. This effectively cancels them for U less late game. Sure, you will have to actually deal with the spell if three more turns go by and it is still relevant. But it is still an amazing lategame response.
Also, it hardcounters other counterspells and X-spells.
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ppl tend to love to compare to remand but they don't realize that this usually really isn't that valid. remand is extremely good to be able to dominate type 2. not a single counter has been this influential for the past 5 years- not even counterspell. it's all hype when we find a new card and say it's better than remand. this is highly unlikely and would be highly unusual. we might not see another remand for a long time...
The real power of delay, imo, is seen in a fish deck. Envision this:
turn 1 lions, turn 2 blade of the 6th pride, turn 3 -5, remand/delay anything they play. gg?
Um, and the second time that you played it, you played it for free? The thing that makes Remand better than Delay in the early game, even without the cantrip effect is that with Remand, you must pay the casting cost twice to actually play the targeted card. With Delay, you just go about your business, safe in the knowledge that your spell will (baring Teferi), resolve 2 turns later, or cost them yet another card to deal with properly.
And if you didn't play it the next turn, did you ever play it? If you didn't, well Remand may as well have been a hard counter. Otherwise, it got your opponent the same delaying effect as Delay, only trading the extra flexibility that you got from deciding when to play the card with the fact you had to pay twice and an extra card. Sounds like a pretty good trade to me.
Yeah, Delay's probably better, just, in the late game. The two together are just rude, of course
Otherwise, most of the time, Remand is, by far the better card. But, it does depend on why you want them in the deck. If you're actually trying to prevent something specific, like, say Wrath, then you probably want Delay. If you're just trying to gather tempo and cycle cards, Remand is so much better that it's just not funny.
"I'm going to have more than Natalie Portman" is quite different from "I'm going to have more, then Natalie Portman".
It very much depends on the situation and the deck to determine which one is better at which time.
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remand is like the foreplay of blue mages then it gives them the orgasmic top deck!
delay? hmm... wont even get you turned on.
Taking an aggressive two or three drop out of the game for three turns will keep you very much alive, perhaps if only long enough to get the mana for ***.
Further more, late game, Delay might as well be "1U: Counter target spell." Since that thing ain't coming back.
Also, a lot of spells in this game are time critical. Part of the reason Teh Fairy is so strong, is because he prevents fast effect spells from messing up with his combat. This spell has a lot of the same effect in that it can remove a relevant spell from the game that won't have the same effect later on. Heck, bounce a Moldervine cloak for three turns, and then make sure you're the only one with creatures in play when it resolves.
What I'd like to point out though that Delay is similar to Pact of Negation in a sense that The Pact wouldn't care paying for the "pact" cost if the next turn woudn't come. Same thing for Delay. It is essentially a hard counter if the game would end in less than 3 turns.
why not play both =)