I'm not going to claim that this is a good card or a bad card; I'll reserve judgement until I can see it in action.
But one thing y'all should keep in mind is that while your opponent does get to repeatedly throw dudes under the bus in order to keep it from connecting, but that's actually the case with many creatures. The difference is that with other creatures your opponent is throwing dudes under the bus via chump blocking, rather than via a sacrifice effect. So don't think of him as a creature with a punisher effect to determine whether he gets to attack, think of him as an aggressively costed creature who can be blocked by any creature, even tapped creatures and creatures without flying, but who gets bigger every time your opponent chooses to do so.
Of course, he might end up sucking anyway, but it's something to think about.
No, he's not just easily "chump-blocked". Against some decks, he may not ever be able to even block. Especially in Legacy, a Krenko, Mob Boss and a single other Goblin keeps this guy from attacking or blocking all day. Have that other Goblin be named Goblin Lackey and the demon's controller will be so, so sorry.
...Actually, Krenko may be able to keep that guy at bay by himself. This demon can't scar planeswalkers like Sorin, Lord of Innistrad worth anything.
For extra lulz, play this right after someone plays Sigarda, Host of Herons-
They will be unable to tap the Demon-
they'll pretty much have to chump it with Sigarda to get rid of it
pffffft you spoiling the fun:-/
and waay waaaay more undercosted for the demon P/T
No, he's not just easily "chump-blocked". Against some decks, he may not ever be able to even block. Especially in Legacy, a Krenko, Mob Boss and a single other Goblin keeps this guy from attacking or blocking all day. Have that other Goblin be named Goblin Lackey and the demon's controller will be so, so sorry.
...Actually, Krenko may be able to keep that guy at bay by himself. This demon can't scar planeswalkers like Sorin, Lord of Innistrad worth anything.
That's not even really the point, though. Grinning Demon sees virtually no play just because the format demands so much efficiency out of cards that there is no room for him. Percy sees play in a very specific deck, and there he only emerges after a slow control game of discard to strip removal. DD isn't going to find a role different that these cards...
...unless a reliable untap ability is a thing. If you have a Noble Heirach-esque creature with an untap effect for other creatures, or some other streamlined way to untap at instant speed, then this card becomes potentially monsterous.
The only weaknesses I see in this card are that 1: they can stall their death from it just long enough to kill you. And 2: they can tap it to swing for lethal. Other then that, I'm sorry but this card is just way too good. Preordered a playset at 2.50 as they're bound to go up. And I want a lot of him.
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Modern Decks: GGGMGAGGG RRRRed AffinityRRR RGShamansGR BWB/W ControlWB
4 mana 6/6 flier which makes your opponent really have to think about how they want to deal with it. Yikes. Pretty pretty good.
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It's a control finisher, you clear the board with removal and sweepers etc, you deplete your opponents hand, you drop this guy to close out the game, the low CMC means you can keep up counter spells whilst doing it.
Call me crazy, but I don't see black as the control color once we get into the rotation. From what's been spoiled so far, White and Blue have a lot to offer control, whereas black has some stuff, but a lot of it requires you to invest in black (Liliana, Mutilate, etc) This guy is ok, I suppose I was a bit harsh when I said it was outright bad. I just don't think he'll see a ton of play.
I could be wrong, we'll see. A 6/6 flyer for 4 is pretty good, even without trample, but I think a lot of you are forgetting that his drawback, while it might still give him a counter and lose them a creature, is still exactly what it sounds like. A drawback. And if your opponent plays smart, I think they'll be able to avoid turning that drawback into an advantage.
No, he's not just easily "chump-blocked". Against some decks, he may not ever be able to even block. Especially in Legacy, a Krenko, Mob Boss and a single other Goblin keeps this guy from attacking or blocking all day. Have that other Goblin be named Goblin Lackey and the demon's controller will be so, so sorry.
...Actually, Krenko may be able to keep that guy at bay by himself. This demon can't scar planeswalkers like Sorin, Lord of Innistrad worth anything.
And Sinkhole cannot make a dent on creatures. Your point? You think Sinkhole is bad?
Of course he has counters. A creature so hugely undercosted should have issues. But it's an interesting and possibly constructed worthy card. Trades consistency for raw power.
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I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
I think this card will be good if there is a Fling variant or Soul's Fire variant. If not he just may as well read, "this creature destroys the weakest creature on the table until an opponent finds an answer."
You see, they won't need to sacrifice EVERY turn. Just on your turn to prevent you from attacking, then it stays tapped on theirs to prevent blocking.
But if you could Fling it after it got big enough....
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Standard WUControlWU
Commander (EDH) WBRKaalia of the VastWBR WRGMayael the AnimaWRG
I'm not going to claim that this is a good card or a bad card; I'll reserve judgement until I can see it in action.
But one thing y'all should keep in mind is that while your opponent does get to repeatedly throw dudes under the bus in order to keep it from connecting, but that's actually the case with many creatures. The difference is that with other creatures your opponent is throwing dudes under the bus via chump blocking, rather than via a sacrifice effect. So don't think of him as a creature with a punisher effect to determine whether he gets to attack, think of him as an aggressively costed creature who can be blocked by any creature, even tapped creatures and creatures without flying, but who gets bigger every time your opponent chooses to do so.
Of course, he might end up sucking anyway, but it's something to think about.
That's exactly how regarded this card after reading him. The flying is almost obsolete on the card, but for the fact it fits with the flavor of Demons on Ravnica and that there will be times when it is totally relevant. It's the easiest creature to chump block ever, but makes up for it by hitting far harder on turns where you can't stop him.
Nonetheless, the option handed to your opponent must be recognized as a relevant drawback. Is that drawback so great that it makes this ridiculously efficient beater unplayable? That's something the new Standard format will decide.
Oh, and while hitting a Mutilate to clear the board is awesome and all, you'll do 1 damage, and then they can just start resupplying creatures and tokens. Go right for their throats with the proven awesomeness of Curse of Death's Hold on turn 5.
The very mention of Legacy in this thread makes me cringe. Where people get their idea of the format, I have no idea.
This is The Rumor Mill. It's for general discussion. I believe I have all rights to discuss any card's impact in any format it is legal in within this forum, even Vintage and Pauper. I was mainly replying to protoaddict's assertion that this guy will be good in Legacy's The Gate, anyway.
A black deck running this could curve this into a mutilate as on 5 lands, the demon is still too big to die to mutilate and there probably won't be any blockers left. Control decks like this card and should fear it as well. Nice playable demons are always good
how its really interaction with the metagame as example in.... his closest case the control deck?
surely when can play this guy immediately then the opponent instinctively would give away their creatures, especially when they got no some removal..
let's say people want to restrain him with Fiend Hunter or Oblivion... then get the second bomb in the form of vraska that would release him with her -3...
Limited bomb, big time. Standard, I guess it's up to MBC or Esper control making an appearance, he's a very fast clock in decks that can keep the opponent board clear. And Lyzolda loves him in EDH, one creature sac-blocking him is one creature not blocking the rest of your hasty horde.
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1. It costs 4 mana. 4 mana creatures without haste, protection from removal, or a come into play effect need to win the game outright if they attack once. This does none of these, so it's not good.
2. On top of that, it's another bad punisher card. Didn't Vexing Devil teach anyone anything? These cards are not Constructed playable. If Abyssal Persecutor was barely playable, this definitely isn't.
1. It costs 4 mana. 4 mana creatures without haste, protection from removal, or a come into play effect need to win the game outright if they attack once. This does none of these, so it's not good.
2. On top of that, it's another bad punisher card. Didn't Vexing Devil teach anyone anything? These cards are not Constructed playable. If Abyssal Persecutor was barely playable, this definitely isn't.
Can I store this quote and parade it around if I play this dude to success at a large tournament?
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I'm a control player, because I like to reserve the right to say no.
No, he's not just easily "chump-blocked". Against some decks, he may not ever be able to even block. Especially in Legacy, a Krenko, Mob Boss and a single other Goblin keeps this guy from attacking or blocking all day. Have that other Goblin be named Goblin Lackey and the demon's controller will be so, so sorry.
...Actually, Krenko may be able to keep that guy at bay by himself. This demon can't scar planeswalkers like Sorin, Lord of Innistrad worth anything.
pffffft you spoiling the fun:-/
and waay waaaay more undercosted for the demon P/T
That's not even really the point, though. Grinning Demon sees virtually no play just because the format demands so much efficiency out of cards that there is no room for him. Percy sees play in a very specific deck, and there he only emerges after a slow control game of discard to strip removal. DD isn't going to find a role different that these cards...
...unless a reliable untap ability is a thing. If you have a Noble Heirach-esque creature with an untap effect for other creatures, or some other streamlined way to untap at instant speed, then this card becomes potentially monsterous.
GGGMGAGGG
RRRRed AffinityRRR
RGShamansGR
BWB/W ControlWB
EDH:
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Heartless Hidetsugu
Cromat
Nicol Bolas
Sapling of Colfenor
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Call me crazy, but I don't see black as the control color once we get into the rotation. From what's been spoiled so far, White and Blue have a lot to offer control, whereas black has some stuff, but a lot of it requires you to invest in black (Liliana, Mutilate, etc) This guy is ok, I suppose I was a bit harsh when I said it was outright bad. I just don't think he'll see a ton of play.
I could be wrong, we'll see. A 6/6 flyer for 4 is pretty good, even without trample, but I think a lot of you are forgetting that his drawback, while it might still give him a counter and lose them a creature, is still exactly what it sounds like. A drawback. And if your opponent plays smart, I think they'll be able to avoid turning that drawback into an advantage.
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And Sinkhole cannot make a dent on creatures. Your point? You think Sinkhole is bad?
Of course he has counters. A creature so hugely undercosted should have issues. But it's an interesting and possibly constructed worthy card. Trades consistency for raw power.
I'm a Spike Vorthos - I love lore and flavor, but only if the cards are competition worthy.
You see, they won't need to sacrifice EVERY turn. Just on your turn to prevent you from attacking, then it stays tapped on theirs to prevent blocking.
But if you could Fling it after it got big enough....
WUControlWU
Commander (EDH)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
WRGMayael the AnimaWRG
That's exactly how regarded this card after reading him. The flying is almost obsolete on the card, but for the fact it fits with the flavor of Demons on Ravnica and that there will be times when it is totally relevant. It's the easiest creature to chump block ever, but makes up for it by hitting far harder on turns where you can't stop him.
Nonetheless, the option handed to your opponent must be recognized as a relevant drawback. Is that drawback so great that it makes this ridiculously efficient beater unplayable? That's something the new Standard format will decide.
Oh, and while hitting a Mutilate to clear the board is awesome and all, you'll do 1 damage, and then they can just start resupplying creatures and tokens. Go right for their throats with the proven awesomeness of Curse of Death's Hold on turn 5.
This is The Rumor Mill. It's for general discussion. I believe I have all rights to discuss any card's impact in any format it is legal in within this forum, even Vintage and Pauper. I was mainly replying to protoaddict's assertion that this guy will be good in Legacy's The Gate, anyway.
Bonfire of the Damned AND
Mizzium Mortars
It will be very very easy to clear chaff off the board.
Punisher mechanic or not, this card is sweet. It will at least be an awesome sideboard option against control/ramp/combo. Love this card.
First of all, under-costed body; 4 for a 6/6.
Each combat step my opponent decides to either (1) sacrifice a creature, and my guy taps and gets bigger, or (2) my opponent chump blocks a creature?
Basically, I can chump block in 2 ways. One of which circumvents his flying evasion.
To me, this is a 4 mana 6/6 with a drawback.
--
I also don't like the wording, I feel like it should say "combat step", not "combat"
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
surely when can play this guy immediately then the opponent instinctively would give away their creatures, especially when they got no some removal..
let's say people want to restrain him with Fiend Hunter or Oblivion... then get the second bomb in the form of vraska that would release him with her -3...
what do u think??
Oh yeah! Funny how I forgot about that. In that case, I can see this guy working out a bit.
WUControlWU
Commander (EDH)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
WRGMayael the AnimaWRG
[Commander] Rafiq of the Many (Tier 1)
[Commander] Marchesa, the Black Rose (Tier 1)
[Commander] Five Color Artifacts (Tier 2)
2. On top of that, it's another bad punisher card. Didn't Vexing Devil teach anyone anything? These cards are not Constructed playable. If Abyssal Persecutor was barely playable, this definitely isn't.
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