I'm liking this... well, I certainly dont look forward to playing it, but even a 6/6 defender with flying for 4 would be alright. This thing will generally survive a mutilate so you can keep field presence after a board wipe which could be nice. And if not, sacrifice an opponents creature each turn is not a bad tradeoff for 4 mana...
It's worse than a 6/6 with Flying and Defender. Against some decks, it may as well have a "~ can't block" clause on it. That's what makes it worse than you'd think.
1. It costs 4 mana. 4 mana creatures without haste, protection from removal, or a come into play effect need to win the game outright if they attack once. This does none of these, so it's not good.
2. On top of that, it's another bad punisher card. Didn't Vexing Devil teach anyone anything? These cards are not Constructed playable. If Abyssal Persecutor was barely playable, this definitely isn't.
Just because something is a punisher card doesn't mean it always has to be bad. There's a certain threshhold where both sides are good enough that you would be happy having either in any (or almost any) situation.
Oh, and for the record, Vexing Devil hasn't been proven constructed unplayable yet; people have played it in legacy, and if RDW ever makes an appearance at some point over the next year in standard Devil will be in it.
The 'removal' ability is actually just removing his flying by letting everything chump him. :\
This guy might be good, sure, but I definitely prefer this type of 'powerful' creature. Looks tough, could be powerful, but at least if you throw a piece of removal at it you don't usually lose much. A well-placed Dreadbore, Selesnya Charm or even just Murder is still worth it at sorcery speed.
also this reminds me too much of Vexing Devil and Abyssal Persecutor, both of which, er, barely saw play. The latter was played a bit as a finisher in controlly type decks, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy in a deck filled with Mutilate and ways of getting him through to damage.
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If you're having creature problems I feel bad for you son
You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
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Okay, it seems bad against zombies, so if you play against zombies, just side it out. The fact that anyone can dismiss this guy as being anything less than a huge powerhouse is scaring the hell out of me. Naysayers see that a rare is not goyf and just raspberry it until the card cries. This demon has feelings, you guys. I bet he waltzed in with a smug "I'm obviously pushed" smile, and then frowns when people crap on him because there are some strategies that are good against him.
(raspberry)
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
Yeaaaaah, I want 3 for my future Grixis Control Deck I have planned for Gatecrash.
If you run a mitt of removal like Mutilate, Mizzium Mortars, Izzet Signet, Dreadbore, etc and this guy? No creatures? 6/6 for 4. Creatures? Not for long.
You kill it? Nicol Bolas.
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"Bound by hell-forged chains and fate-haunted circumstance. Well, then--let it be thus so--and men will have cause to tremble and flee when they hear the names of Elric of Melinbone and Stormbringer, his sword. We are two of a kind--produced by an age which has deserted us. Let us give this age cause to hate us!”
The 'removal' ability is actually just removing his flying by letting everything chump him. :\
It's worse. People seem to be ignoring the fact that his ability says, "At the beginning of each combat..." It basically gives decks the ability to Provoke-chump him and force him to be unable to block if the fodder is bad enough.
Just because something is a punisher card doesn't mean it always has to be bad. There's a certain threshhold where both sides are good enough that you would be happy having either in any (or almost any) situation.
Oh, and for the record, Vexing Devil hasn't been proven constructed unplayable yet; people have played it in legacy, and if RDW ever makes an appearance at some point over the next year in standard Devil will be in it.
It's true that there is such a threshold, yes. Gifts Ungiven is easily manipulated so that you practically get all 4 cards (Grove of the Burnwillows-Punishing Fire-Life from the Loam-Worm Harvest) or at least a fatty (Fatty + Unburial Rites only; you are guaranteed to have both cards in your graveyard). Jace, Architect of Thought's -2 is arguably better than a Preordain because you are guaranteed to get the best card of your top 3 and you have a significant chance of getting two cards (piles like Supreme Verdict-Supreme Verdict-Land tend to have a habit of doing so).
Unfortunately, punisher cards like Browbeat have a higher tendency of being bad. There likely hasn't been a game where the Development side of Research//Development hasn't screwed me, even if I get it on an Isochron Scepter.
Maybe there's a chance to combo it with Sigarda, host of herons in a BWG deck to make it a huge beater but it still lacks trample. I like the card but is not that overpowered as people think
EDIT: Ups I thought Sigarda made your opponents unable to sacrifice, never mind
Maybe there's a chance to combo it with Sigarda, host of herons in a BWG deck to make it a huge beater but it still lacks trample. I like the card but is not that overpowered as people think
1. It costs 4 mana. 4 mana creatures without haste, protection from removal, or a come into play effect need to win the game outright if they attack once. This does none of these, so it's not good.
2. On top of that, it's another bad punisher card. Didn't Vexing Devil teach anyone anything? These cards are not Constructed playable. If Abyssal Persecutor was barely playable, this definitely isn't.
This card is not a true punisher card. They lose resources each time they are being "punished" Every deck doesn't run lingering souls. Heck what decks run the souls now? Vexing devil kills itself. This card is an inevitability. You fail to grasp that concept.
Okay, it seems bad against zombies, so if you play against zombies, just side it out. The fact that anyone can dismiss this guy as being anything less than a huge powerhouse is scaring the hell out of me. Naysayers see that a rare is not goyf and just raspberry it until the card cries. This demon has feelings, you guys. I bet he waltzed in with a smug "I'm obviously pushed" smile, and then frowns when people crap on him because there are some strategies that are good against him.
(raspberry)
play it in zombies with the artist.make the opp suffer
For extra lulz, play this right after someone plays Sigarda, Host of Herons-
They will be unable to tap the Demon-
they'll pretty much have to chump it with Sigarda to get rid of it
Impressive. Sigarda is worded in such a way that it takes an unusual ability to find the downside to it.
This sounds like one of those Vexing Devil threads all over again.
Explain how this demon is worse than what you quoted. Saying "no" without any explanation doesn't work. Yes, he's not "strictly" worse, the quoted demon could be given a Rancor or something, but it's generally weaker. The purpose was to set some lower limit on the power of the demon that didn't have people freaking out about "Oh no, your opponent makes a choice." Since people for some reason don't see that opponents make lots of choices and blocking is one of those.
Do note, I was one of the people saying that Vexing Devil was a weak card. I'm not misevaluating what a choice means, there are simply cases where the popular shortcuts don't match reality.
It is, you just have to play it like I said earlier-
Let your *opponent* play Sigarda,
then play this and watch them wince as chumping with Sigarda will be one of the only ways they can stop this thing
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
This dude goes from playable to awesome if you can reliably negate the drawback. So, I did a gatherer search to aid all ya'll. I limited my search to 3 cc or less, because you want the card to have utility before you cast DD. I also ignored obviously terrible cards like Immobilizing Ink.
On another note, this card does interact with proliferate. Just sayin'.
STANDARD LEGAL
Galvic Alchemist - Possible, if you have a deck that can take advantage of other creatures untapping. I'm thinking of something using her with, say, Bloom Tender to generate infinite mana on the side. Better than auras because you don't lose the Alchemist if the Demon croaks.
Nibilis of the Breath - This is probably where DD wants to go in Standard. This card helps with the flying aggro plan in a U/B control or tempo shell, and nullifies his drawback. A++ would eat again.
Spidery Grasp - Good enough? Maybe. It's not as good as Gerrard's Command, but it is standard-legal.
ETERNAL FORMATS
Aphetto Alchemist - Not strong on his own, unless you're going for Wake Thrasher hijinks. He sees play in some combo decks with Mesmeric Orb. Probably not viable.
Aura of Dominion - Not strong on its own. If the mechanic was more like Opposition or Glare of Subdual, this could be a control shell.
Cerulean Wisps - It does cantrip, but unless you're playing other cards that work with this like Gelectrode, it's pretty bad.
Chain Stasis - So bad, but potentially better than Twiddle since you go infinite mana once you animate your island enchanted with three Wild Growths... lol.
Crab Umbra, Freed from the Real, Pemmin's Aura, Second WInd - This gets the job done, but it's expensive and you can get two-for-one'd if they respond to casting it with removal. Not worth it just for a 6/6.
Emerald Charm - This is a niche card that used to see play in Vintage to deal with dredge hate. Not what we're looking for.
Fyndhorn Brownie - Too expensive, pass. On the other hand, how awesome is it that we can now legitimately consider Fyndhorn Brownie for some purpose?
Gerrard's Command - Doran aggro can use this as a giant growth and it fixed DD's problem. Possible.
Instill Energy - Dare I say; possible? It's been ages since I've played with it, it works well on a mana dork, and gives DD haste. On the flip side, it opens you up to the usual 2-for-1s. Probably not playable, but it's on my radar.
Jolt. Twitch - If it cost 1 less, I'd be interested. It's got uses as a tempo card before DD drops, and allows DD to attack afterwards. The thing about instants rather than permanents is that, if the opponent knows you're playing them, the decision about whether to chumpsac to DD is really hard for them; do they chump, make DD bigger, and then risk getting blown out by Jolt?
Nature's Chosen - Uh, maybe you're playing Doran and want a way to stop artifacts using other... no, nevermind, this one is horrible.
Overtaker - Interesting. Functions as repeatable Mark of Mutiny and then nullifies the drawback on DD. Effect is sort of expensive, but I think this one is possible.
Puppet Strings, Puppeteer, Stonybrook Angler, Tideforce Elemental - Also possible. Helps with removal until DD arrives. Sounds like it lives in a Demon Stompy type shell, where you play control until your midrangey threats arrive.
Quirion Ranger, Scryb Ranger - NOW we're talking. This little dude helps generate mana, so you can cast DD on turn 3 reliably, and he nullifies the fattie's drawback. WIN!
Seedcradle Witch - Possible. A deck using this would want a 1/1 for 1 that gets relevant abilities only in the late game. But, the threat to make your duder 9/9 and nullify the drawback is no joke.
Seeker of Skybreak - Possible. Again, you need other creatures with powerful tap effects to make it worthwhile, but a 2/1 for 1G isn't terrible.
Staff of Dominion - This is not the most broken thing you could be doing with Staff, but it does work. Possible.
Thousand-Year Elixir - Works very well. Pairs with lots of creatures with powerful activated abilities. Generates sick mana with cards like Bloom Tender.
To Arms! - Play it because it has an exclamation point in its name!
Umbral Mantle - I love this interaction so much. T3 mantle, T4 DD and equip. T5, attack step starts. Do they sac? If not, then you tap DD to attack, use the ability to pump him to 9/9 and pound something. If so, same thing! AND it goes infinite with Bloom Tender / various elf lords. Saucy!
Vigean Graftmage - Bigger + untap. Probably not as good as the puppeteer-types that can tap enemies down.
Vitalize - This has possibilities if only because it's cheap and screws up combat math. If only it cantripped...
Wirewood Symboite - Requires alot of elves to make it work. Is there an elf deck that wants a Demon finisher? I'm not thinking so.
1. It costs 4 mana. 4 mana creatures without haste, protection from removal, or a come into play effect need to win the game outright if they attack once. This does none of these, so it's not good.
Lolwut? I hightly doubt you're gonna find a 4 mana dude that's gonna win the game in one attack. The closest I can think of currently in standard would be Sublime Archangel if you have enough creatures...
I mean, even Bloodbraid Elf, an awesome, amazing four drop from a deck that dominated standard for a long time is probably not going to be winning the game.
Oh, you said without haste or a CIP effect? Talrand, Krenko, Abyssal Persecutor are all things I can think off the top of my head.
I agree with you on that I don't think this card is as good as everyone is saying, but honestly, you're definition of a good four drop is a little ridiculous.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
Explain how this demon is worse than what you quoted. Saying "no" without any explanation doesn't work. Yes, he's not "strictly" worse, the quoted demon could be given a Rancor or something, but it's generally weaker. The purpose was to set some lower limit on the power of the demon that didn't have people freaking out about "Oh no, your opponent makes a choice." Since people for some reason don't see that opponents make lots of choices and blocking is one of those.
Do note, I was one of the people saying that Vexing Devil was a weak card. I'm not misevaluating what a choice means, there are simply cases where the popular shortcuts don't match reality.
Well, for one, DD is worse with Rancor! For two, DD is worse against non-flyers and against decks that don't typically leave back blockers. The only situations in which I can imagine this being better are when you have ways to get utility out of him if he's getting bigger but not dealing damage (GPH, ToF, ToC, Disciple of Bolas, etc.) I agree that "punisher" mechanics aren't always terrible--obviously Fact or Fiction is a good card--I just don't think this one manages to pass the test.
Whatever else you think of him, he's worth 2 bux, which is what his presale was a little bit ago. I'd snatch him up before he climbs to the 5-10 range.
Cards that give the opponent some degree of control over how good they are...not so hot.
As others have mentioned, any flying creature can normal chump it and any nonflying creature can pseudo chump it.
Also it can never reliably block anything.
Yes, the edict ability is cute and all, but if you want edicts, use Liliana instead, because that ability is under your control, and will do more over the course of the game than this guy ever could.
Also, being a black creature no longer affords any favors, as Doom Blade isn't around anymore.
Selesnya Charm laughs and exiles him.
Azorious Charm puts him on tops of decks for great jokes.
Abyssal Persecutor was alright, but never blew formats apart. This card is weaker.
Lack of trample makes a huge difference.
Inability to attack or block when you want to is a huge difference.
Abyssal Persecutor was much more able to win a game than this guy ever could. They don't even need fliers to race him, just a stream of warm bodies.
Also, speculating on this guy is a huge mistake. He might preorder for around 10, but then once the set is released, preorder hype ends, and prices become grounded in reality.
He is a 5 dollar card at best.
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This dude is really dude in URx Control I'm going to build. Decent dude.
Basically he says :
{T} : Target opponent sacrifice a creature. If he/she does, put a +1/+1 counter on <this>.
He has no drawback I think. Even more in control shell, a solid 4cmc 6/6 evasive dude with ability to sac your opp's creatures. Which is great.
Not really good vs Zombie (Gravecrawler) match up lol.
You have to tack on the "Any opponent may activate this ability" clause. If you think you're smart enough to leave him behind to block, prepare to be horrified when they forcibly tap him when they want to attack.
Lolwut? I hightly doubt you're gonna find a 4 mana dude that's gonna win the game in one attack. The closest I can think of currently in standard would be Sublime Archangel if you have enough creatures...
I mean, even Bloodbraid Elf, an awesome, amazing four drop from a deck that dominated standard for a long time is probably not going to be winning the game.
Oh, you said without haste or a CIP effect? Talrand, Krenko, Abyssal Persecutor are all things I can think off the top of my head.
I agree with you on that I don't think this card is as good as everyone is saying, but honestly, you're definition of a good four drop is a little ridiculous.
You misunderstand the guy you were responding to. Huntmaster, Jens, and BBE all have ETB abilities (or at least "when cast" abilities), so they are thoroughly playable 4-drops. All 3 cards can generate true card advantage.
Abyssal Persecutor is fringe because you need to build at least slightly around him and some decks can just off him immediately if they feel threatened enough.
Krenko is similarly fringe, and every competitive deck that has used him so far can grant him Haste (Goblin Chieftain, Goblin Warchief). Even then, I cry every single time he gets spot removed, and he is not quite good enough in Modern when he usually bites the bullet before he can do anything. (He is ironically better in Legacy than in Modern because he gets more support in the larger format.)
Talrand is subpar in formats larger than Standard and is only good against decks that can't handle an X/2. In testing, I found him so mediocre that Talrand's Invocation did better than him overall. And that's testing for Standard. That has to say something. (Seriously, he usually produces one Drake token a game and eats removal immediately afterward. He also can't be resurrected from the graveyard with a Snapcaster Mage. I have no clue why more decks don't play Talrand's Invocation over this guy.)
It's worse than a 6/6 with Flying and Defender. Against some decks, it may as well have a "~ can't block" clause on it. That's what makes it worse than you'd think.
Just because something is a punisher card doesn't mean it always has to be bad. There's a certain threshhold where both sides are good enough that you would be happy having either in any (or almost any) situation.
Oh, and for the record, Vexing Devil hasn't been proven constructed unplayable yet; people have played it in legacy, and if RDW ever makes an appearance at some point over the next year in standard Devil will be in it.
This guy might be good, sure, but I definitely prefer this type of 'powerful' creature. Looks tough, could be powerful, but at least if you throw a piece of removal at it you don't usually lose much. A well-placed Dreadbore, Selesnya Charm or even just Murder is still worth it at sorcery speed.
also this reminds me too much of Vexing Devil and Abyssal Persecutor, both of which, er, barely saw play. The latter was played a bit as a finisher in controlly type decks, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this guy in a deck filled with Mutilate and ways of getting him through to damage.
You got 99 attackers but I'm blocking with 1.
The Winner is Judge | 7
This Winner is Also Judge | 6
Club Flamingo | Lots
(raspberry)
Feel free to tell me yours!
If you run a mitt of removal like Mutilate, Mizzium Mortars, Izzet Signet, Dreadbore, etc and this guy? No creatures? 6/6 for 4. Creatures? Not for long.
You kill it? Nicol Bolas.
Standard:
Glissa and Friends:symg::symb:
Modern:
Budget Jund:symg::symb::symr:
Commander:
Jor Kadeen Voltron:symw::symr:
It's worse. People seem to be ignoring the fact that his ability says, "At the beginning of each combat..." It basically gives decks the ability to Provoke-chump him and force him to be unable to block if the fodder is bad enough.
It's true that there is such a threshold, yes. Gifts Ungiven is easily manipulated so that you practically get all 4 cards (Grove of the Burnwillows-Punishing Fire-Life from the Loam-Worm Harvest) or at least a fatty (Fatty + Unburial Rites only; you are guaranteed to have both cards in your graveyard). Jace, Architect of Thought's -2 is arguably better than a Preordain because you are guaranteed to get the best card of your top 3 and you have a significant chance of getting two cards (piles like Supreme Verdict-Supreme Verdict-Land tend to have a habit of doing so).
Unfortunately, punisher cards like Browbeat have a higher tendency of being bad. There likely hasn't been a game where the Development side of Research//Development hasn't screwed me, even if I get it on an Isochron Scepter.
EDIT: Ups I thought Sigarda made your opponents unable to sacrifice, never mind
I don't see how that's a combo.
Standard: W/R Aggro
This card is not a true punisher card. They lose resources each time they are being "punished" Every deck doesn't run lingering souls. Heck what decks run the souls now? Vexing devil kills itself. This card is an inevitability. You fail to grasp that concept.
play it in zombies with the artist.make the opp suffer
You're right, I realized as I posted it, for some reason I thought Sigarda made your opponents unable to sacrifice creatures
Creature - Demon
6/6
Attacks each turn if able.
Would you play this?
Because the demon is better than that.
Um, no, it's not.
This sounds like one of those Vexing Devil threads all over again.
Standard: W/R Aggro
Impressive. Sigarda is worded in such a way that it takes an unusual ability to find the downside to it.
Explain how this demon is worse than what you quoted. Saying "no" without any explanation doesn't work. Yes, he's not "strictly" worse, the quoted demon could be given a Rancor or something, but it's generally weaker. The purpose was to set some lower limit on the power of the demon that didn't have people freaking out about "Oh no, your opponent makes a choice." Since people for some reason don't see that opponents make lots of choices and blocking is one of those.
Do note, I was one of the people saying that Vexing Devil was a weak card. I'm not misevaluating what a choice means, there are simply cases where the popular shortcuts don't match reality.
It is, you just have to play it like I said earlier-
Let your *opponent* play Sigarda,
then play this and watch them wince as chumping with Sigarda will be one of the only ways they can stop this thing
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
On another note, this card does interact with proliferate. Just sayin'.
STANDARD LEGAL
Galvic Alchemist - Possible, if you have a deck that can take advantage of other creatures untapping. I'm thinking of something using her with, say, Bloom Tender to generate infinite mana on the side. Better than auras because you don't lose the Alchemist if the Demon croaks.
Nibilis of the Breath - This is probably where DD wants to go in Standard. This card helps with the flying aggro plan in a U/B control or tempo shell, and nullifies his drawback. A++ would eat again.
Spidery Grasp - Good enough? Maybe. It's not as good as Gerrard's Command, but it is standard-legal.
ETERNAL FORMATS
Aphetto Alchemist - Not strong on his own, unless you're going for Wake Thrasher hijinks. He sees play in some combo decks with Mesmeric Orb. Probably not viable.
Aura of Dominion - Not strong on its own. If the mechanic was more like Opposition or Glare of Subdual, this could be a control shell.
Cerulean Wisps - It does cantrip, but unless you're playing other cards that work with this like Gelectrode, it's pretty bad.
Chain Stasis - So bad, but potentially better than Twiddle since you go infinite mana once you animate your island enchanted with three Wild Growths... lol.
Crab Umbra, Freed from the Real, Pemmin's Aura, Second WInd - This gets the job done, but it's expensive and you can get two-for-one'd if they respond to casting it with removal. Not worth it just for a 6/6.
Emerald Charm - This is a niche card that used to see play in Vintage to deal with dredge hate. Not what we're looking for.
Fyndhorn Brownie - Too expensive, pass. On the other hand, how awesome is it that we can now legitimately consider Fyndhorn Brownie for some purpose?
Gerrard's Command - Doran aggro can use this as a giant growth and it fixed DD's problem. Possible.
Instill Energy - Dare I say; possible? It's been ages since I've played with it, it works well on a mana dork, and gives DD haste. On the flip side, it opens you up to the usual 2-for-1s. Probably not playable, but it's on my radar.
Jandor's Saddlebags - Hahahaha probably not. Awesome though.
Jolt. Twitch - If it cost 1 less, I'd be interested. It's got uses as a tempo card before DD drops, and allows DD to attack afterwards. The thing about instants rather than permanents is that, if the opponent knows you're playing them, the decision about whether to chumpsac to DD is really hard for them; do they chump, make DD bigger, and then risk getting blown out by Jolt?
Nature's Chosen - Uh, maybe you're playing Doran and want a way to stop artifacts using other... no, nevermind, this one is horrible.
Overtaker - Interesting. Functions as repeatable Mark of Mutiny and then nullifies the drawback on DD. Effect is sort of expensive, but I think this one is possible.
Puppet Strings, Puppeteer, Stonybrook Angler, Tideforce Elemental - Also possible. Helps with removal until DD arrives. Sounds like it lives in a Demon Stompy type shell, where you play control until your midrangey threats arrive.
Quirion Ranger, Scryb Ranger - NOW we're talking. This little dude helps generate mana, so you can cast DD on turn 3 reliably, and he nullifies the fattie's drawback. WIN!
Seedcradle Witch - Possible. A deck using this would want a 1/1 for 1 that gets relevant abilities only in the late game. But, the threat to make your duder 9/9 and nullify the drawback is no joke.
Seeker of Skybreak - Possible. Again, you need other creatures with powerful tap effects to make it worthwhile, but a 2/1 for 1G isn't terrible.
Staff of Dominion - This is not the most broken thing you could be doing with Staff, but it does work. Possible.
Thousand-Year Elixir - Works very well. Pairs with lots of creatures with powerful activated abilities. Generates sick mana with cards like Bloom Tender.
To Arms! - Play it because it has an exclamation point in its name!
Umbral Mantle - I love this interaction so much. T3 mantle, T4 DD and equip. T5, attack step starts. Do they sac? If not, then you tap DD to attack, use the ability to pump him to 9/9 and pound something. If so, same thing! AND it goes infinite with Bloom Tender / various elf lords. Saucy!
Vigean Graftmage - Bigger + untap. Probably not as good as the puppeteer-types that can tap enemies down.
Vitalize - This has possibilities if only because it's cheap and screws up combat math. If only it cantripped...
Wirewood Symboite - Requires alot of elves to make it work. Is there an elf deck that wants a Demon finisher? I'm not thinking so.
SO, there you go. Happy brewing.
It's actually better because it gets a counter too. Good catch.
Feel free to tell me yours!
Lolwut? I hightly doubt you're gonna find a 4 mana dude that's gonna win the game in one attack. The closest I can think of currently in standard would be Sublime Archangel if you have enough creatures...
But, I mean. Huntmaster of the Fells, Solemn Similacrum, and Talrand, Sky Summoner are all amazing four drops, but none of them win you the game in one attack.
I mean, even Bloodbraid Elf, an awesome, amazing four drop from a deck that dominated standard for a long time is probably not going to be winning the game.
Oh, you said without haste or a CIP effect? Talrand, Krenko, Abyssal Persecutor are all things I can think off the top of my head.
I agree with you on that I don't think this card is as good as everyone is saying, but honestly, you're definition of a good four drop is a little ridiculous.
WUBRGCommander Decklists - PaperWUBRG
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Sig Credit: Pegasus Bishop
Resp : izzet charm.
----------------
This dude is really dude in URx Control I'm going to build. Decent dude.
Basically he says :
{T} : Target opponent sacrifice a creature. If he/she does, put a +1/+1 counter on <this>.
He has no drawback I think. Even more in control shell, a solid 4cmc 6/6 evasive dude with ability to sac your opp's creatures. Which is great.
Not really good vs Zombie (Gravecrawler) match up lol.
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
I love this guy. I had the same reaction when I saw Tragic Slip and [card]Strangleroot Geist[/spoiler].
Well, for one, DD is worse with Rancor! For two, DD is worse against non-flyers and against decks that don't typically leave back blockers. The only situations in which I can imagine this being better are when you have ways to get utility out of him if he's getting bigger but not dealing damage (GPH, ToF, ToC, Disciple of Bolas, etc.) I agree that "punisher" mechanics aren't always terrible--obviously Fact or Fiction is a good card--I just don't think this one manages to pass the test.
Standard: W/R Aggro
As others have mentioned, any flying creature can normal chump it and any nonflying creature can pseudo chump it.
Also it can never reliably block anything.
Yes, the edict ability is cute and all, but if you want edicts, use Liliana instead, because that ability is under your control, and will do more over the course of the game than this guy ever could.
Also, being a black creature no longer affords any favors, as Doom Blade isn't around anymore.
Selesnya Charm laughs and exiles him.
Azorious Charm puts him on tops of decks for great jokes.
Abyssal Persecutor was alright, but never blew formats apart. This card is weaker.
Lack of trample makes a huge difference.
Inability to attack or block when you want to is a huge difference.
Abyssal Persecutor was much more able to win a game than this guy ever could. They don't even need fliers to race him, just a stream of warm bodies.
Also, speculating on this guy is a huge mistake. He might preorder for around 10, but then once the set is released, preorder hype ends, and prices become grounded in reality.
He is a 5 dollar card at best.
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You have to tack on the "Any opponent may activate this ability" clause. If you think you're smart enough to leave him behind to block, prepare to be horrified when they forcibly tap him when they want to attack.
You misunderstand the guy you were responding to. Huntmaster, Jens, and BBE all have ETB abilities (or at least "when cast" abilities), so they are thoroughly playable 4-drops. All 3 cards can generate true card advantage.
Abyssal Persecutor is fringe because you need to build at least slightly around him and some decks can just off him immediately if they feel threatened enough.
Krenko is similarly fringe, and every competitive deck that has used him so far can grant him Haste (Goblin Chieftain, Goblin Warchief). Even then, I cry every single time he gets spot removed, and he is not quite good enough in Modern when he usually bites the bullet before he can do anything. (He is ironically better in Legacy than in Modern because he gets more support in the larger format.)
Talrand is subpar in formats larger than Standard and is only good against decks that can't handle an X/2. In testing, I found him so mediocre that Talrand's Invocation did better than him overall. And that's testing for Standard. That has to say something. (Seriously, he usually produces one Drake token a game and eats removal immediately afterward. He also can't be resurrected from the graveyard with a Snapcaster Mage. I have no clue why more decks don't play Talrand's Invocation over this guy.)