Large multinational companies make mistakes all the time. Like constantly. And they only really had one person working on this apparently.
Sure, confirmation bias and all that, but I've still never heard of anyone in real life or on the internet (besides WotC employees) saying that the oversized cards are cool. Yeah, whatever, extra throwins are always welcome, but don't pretend that there is actual demand for them.
EDIT: Wow, and ninjad by the first person in the world to ever say it. Bravo.
I have. Lots of people in my play group think they're cool. Even key someone cast thier oversized general till it got condemned.
My question is then, what would have made this product "good"? 19.99 for foil FoW, wasteland, imperial recruiter and mana drain available at Wal-Mart? Because I think 75 is not a terribly large amount to msrp when you're basically charging double for 18 cards plus 10 oversized ones and sleeves as opposed to 34.99 for 15 FtVs. Maybe 59.99 would've been better but still.
It just seems like here's no winning here for WotC. (relative to this forum)
Only great to those who have a few decks already made and use certain combos associated with the legendary creature cards and all the utility in the others are almost staple in certain kinds of decks.
This product really is hit and miss, especially when the card combinations appeal to several different decks; I can see myself using every single card here because I have 4 commander decks with different strategies. The availability of this product is the real sinker though; I can understand them wanting to put somewhat decent cards in this (eye of the beholder mind you) and even making them foil but to make a terribly limited print run of this just kills a lot of expectations of people trying to acquire this product. Even if the price either stayed at 75 or went up to say 100-200, people would likely still buy this product if there were more of it circulating. Now all this is going to do is leave a bitter taste in the mouth of:
*Those who can buy the product but can't due to the limited availability
*Those who can't afford the product not necessarily out of the quantities but because of stores who need(or want, depending on how you feel about your LGS) to raise the price of the product
*Those who want the product and can afford it but the LGS has decided to offer it as a prize in a tournament which I understand some LGS's use this as a way to make more money to stay in business.
But in my OPINION, this is the worst case scenario since, as stated by another poster before, a commander product will go to the person who plays standard, wins, and then just sells it off or worse, not even use it.
Again, I'm just stating my opinion; I know there are people who can play standard and play commander as well.
Oooh or this gem: "The oversized premium versions of the Commander boxes' legendary creatures were pretty popular."
No, no they weren't, aren't, never will be. You keep telling yourself that, trying to convince yourselves and everyone that they were a good idea, they just plain weren't.
I mentioned that on the Mothership Forum a couple of months back, and that I had never played with mine and never would.
And within 24hrs, I had agreed to a trade with another forum member who had practically begged me for them.
All products have an insert telling you about the history of the cards and context from WoTC. They are in every Fat Pack, Duel Deck, and FTV. Those are nothing new.
I am well aware of that. You seemed to miss that my point was that instead of giving us that they are instead giving us an insert with WotC employees talking about their lame ass decks instead of background on the cards themselves.
A quick trawl of Ebay gives these average prices for non-foil versions of the cards - I've notionally priced the P3 cards at $25. Figures in brackets are foiled prices. Interestingly, ignoring the two P3 cards, the value of the set in non-foil is $75 so no one can complain about the pure value of the set
Yeah P3K prices are "made up" but they are ok. Just compare the price of the actual Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed judge promo for example. You can get them for under 25 bucks a piece while I bought mine for 15 bucks each.
I'd say 25 is ok to start with, of course time will tell and the price will change as well.
People, the product is spoiled, stop complaining. Remember when they said that this set was built for commander players and collectors??? THEY MEANT IT. You're whining started because "oh no limited print run, however will I buy out my store and turn it around for a giant profit?" and now that it's spoiled, people are pissed because "I invested 300 bucks in a product that's only going to appeal to a casual crowd". The price is fair for a scroll rack and the P3K, not to mention the Commander starters which will fetch an arm and a leg from lots of the newer Commander players. Just rip off your friends in trades, sell the P3K white card (forgetting what it is), smile at your scroll rack, and shut up. And for all of you COMMANDER PLAYERS and AVID COLLECTORS, enjoy your reasonable and entertaining product MADE JUST FOR YOU. Hope you got it at MSRP.:rolleyes:
So yeah. Excited. Lots of great cards. More copies of Things I Need More Copies Of (Rhystic Study, Mind's Eye, etc.) as well as OMG I CAN HAZ FOR FIRST TIME EVAR things like Diaochan, Artful Beauty, not to mention general awesome filler like Decree of Pain and a foily but not particularly attractive Sylvan Library.
Also, pretty sleeves! And pieces of plastic! I'mma be so cool with my shiny bits of plastic! (Totally not being sarcastic here, I'm truly quite excited about the plastic bits.)
Oversized cards. Are they useful? No, not really. Are they cool? Yeah, kinda. If you've ever tried getting oversized cards from someone else (say, at a Helvault party or the Commander release), you'll know that it's pretty hard to collect them. Because they're cool. They're like, as cool as the normal sized ones, but BIGGER.
I am kind of amazed at [...] the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
I am kind of amazed at [...] the fact that somebody on this thread called Mind's Eye, Mirari's Wake, Decree of Pain, Desertion, AND Scroll Rack, all before they were officially spoiled. I will edit this post VERY shortly with the username of this user who deserves at least all of the cookies. Probably more cookies than that.
No, some weren't included. Karakas, for example, was recently printed as a judge promo.
The reserved list was built based on rares that the people working at Wizards at the time thought were good or interesting cards. Not every rare made it.
Yeah P3K prices are "made up" but they are ok. Just compare the price of the actual Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed judge promo for example. You can get them for under 25 bucks a piece while I bought mine for 15 bucks each.
I'd say 25 is ok to start with, of course time will tell and the price will change as well.
The MOTL price list (which uses averages from completed eBay auctions in the last month) currently says:
My question is then, what would have made this product "good"? 19.99 for foil FoW, wasteland, imperial recruiter and mana drain available at Wal-Mart? Because I think 75 is not a terribly large amount to msrp when you're basically charging double for 18 cards plus 10 oversized ones and sleeves as opposed to 34.99 for 15 FtVs. Maybe 59.99 would've been better but still.
With a larger print run? Normal:
Legendary Creatures
Kaalia of the Vast
The Mimeoplasm
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Phelddagrif (New Art)
Hanna, Ship's Navigator (New Art)
Zedruu the Greathearted
Vendilion Clique (Judge Art)
Other Creatures
Dark Confidant
Goblin Welder (New Art)
Sorcery
Decree of Pain (New Art)
Decimate (New Art)
Instant
Force of Will
Grim Tutor (New Art)
Enchantments
Sylvan Library (New Art)
Future Sight (New Art)
Artifacts
Scroll Rack (New Art)
Smokestack (New Art)
Land
Command Tower (New Art)
Oversized:
Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Sliver Queen (New Art)
Uril, the Miststalker
Norin the Wary (New Art)
Zur the Enchanter
Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Brion Stoutarm
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Karn, Silver Golem (New Art)
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
They can keep the dice and stuff.
A lot of people will probably think that's way too much value for one set, but I feel that if a card's not on the reserved list that they should print it.
I would pay $75-$100 for the above set and feel satisfied with my purchase.
While the numbers are low, it pretty much points to there being no chance of getting either of these for $25 a copy off eBay.
It was similar before. One of the verry first foil Xihao's was on ebay for about 175$. I understand your list but it doesen't say anything about the price they will fetch. And no one said that we're talking about "how much the cards will cost" he just made a statement that no one can complain about the value of the contens from this product. Not more not less.
Large multinational companies make mistakes all the time. Like constantly. And they only really had one person working on this apparently.
Sure, confirmation bias and all that, but I've still never heard of anyone in real life or on the internet (besides WotC employees) saying that the oversized cards are cool. Yeah, whatever, extra throwins are always welcome, but don't pretend that there is actual demand for them.
EDIT: Wow, and ninjad by the first person in the world to ever say it. Bravo.
I'm not saying they can't make mistakes, I'm saying they have better information than "I talked to a bunch of people on the Internet and they really hate it". WotC isn't going around saying "these are really popular" because they have evidence that they're really unpopular. They know a lot more about their market research than you do, and they can read public discussion on the Internet just as easily as you can.
I'm not saying they can't make mistakes, I'm saying they have better information than "I talked to a bunch of people on the Internet and they really hate it". WotC isn't going around saying "these are really popular" because they have evidence that they're really unpopular. They know a lot more about their market research than you do, and they can read public discussion on the Internet just as easily as you can.
I agree here.
From my point of view a lot of magic veterans have a completetly different view (as I do as well) on the commander deck's we received last time compared to new players.
A really huge number of players did start playing Magic just because of this product! To reach a completely new playerbase is as important to WotC as to keep the "traditional" players happy.
5 of my friends starteed playing Magic just because of Commander Deck's and guess what they all like the oversized cards, they are happy with all the Legends they have in and not a single one did complain about...
They will love all the oversized cards when they'll get it from me because I don't like/need them.
But yeah, this product just seems pointless, and I have no idea why they're giving it so much hype.
Thanks to Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures!
Stupid spider doesn't even make red/green tokens for Raidmother. ._.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Thanx to Bookworm10 for the Sig.
Check out my YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/ThyrixSyx
Cockatrice: shadowkill
Rules Adviser
I have. Lots of people in my play group think they're cool. Even key someone cast thier oversized general till it got condemned.
My question is then, what would have made this product "good"? 19.99 for foil FoW, wasteland, imperial recruiter and mana drain available at Wal-Mart? Because I think 75 is not a terribly large amount to msrp when you're basically charging double for 18 cards plus 10 oversized ones and sleeves as opposed to 34.99 for 15 FtVs. Maybe 59.99 would've been better but still.
It just seems like here's no winning here for WotC. (relative to this forum)
This product really is hit and miss, especially when the card combinations appeal to several different decks; I can see myself using every single card here because I have 4 commander decks with different strategies. The availability of this product is the real sinker though; I can understand them wanting to put somewhat decent cards in this (eye of the beholder mind you) and even making them foil but to make a terribly limited print run of this just kills a lot of expectations of people trying to acquire this product. Even if the price either stayed at 75 or went up to say 100-200, people would likely still buy this product if there were more of it circulating. Now all this is going to do is leave a bitter taste in the mouth of:
*Those who can buy the product but can't due to the limited availability
*Those who can't afford the product not necessarily out of the quantities but because of stores who need(or want, depending on how you feel about your LGS) to raise the price of the product
*Those who want the product and can afford it but the LGS has decided to offer it as a prize in a tournament which I understand some LGS's use this as a way to make more money to stay in business.
But in my OPINION, this is the worst case scenario since, as stated by another poster before, a commander product will go to the person who plays standard, wins, and then just sells it off or worse, not even use it.
Again, I'm just stating my opinion; I know there are people who can play standard and play commander as well.
And for everyone else,
tl;dr
Every single complaint since day one.
EDH Decks:
UBRNicol Bolas, Destroyer of Worlds
RGURiku, "Just like everyone else" Deck
:selesnya:Trostani, Photocopier
:orzhov:Vish Kal, Heir to the Throne
I mentioned that on the Mothership Forum a couple of months back, and that I had never played with mine and never would.
And within 24hrs, I had agreed to a trade with another forum member who had practically begged me for them.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
I am well aware of that. You seemed to miss that my point was that instead of giving us that they are instead giving us an insert with WotC employees talking about their lame ass decks instead of background on the cards themselves.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I'm confused how you came to the P3 prices. LR is $150, and Diochan is $60.
Remember, he's going off of Ebay, not SCG.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
loyal retainers really does sell for 120+ on ebay.
I'd say 25 is ok to start with, of course time will tell and the price will change as well.
Also, pretty sleeves! And pieces of plastic! I'mma be so cool with my shiny bits of plastic! (Totally not being sarcastic here, I'm truly quite excited about the plastic bits.)
Oversized cards. Are they useful? No, not really. Are they cool? Yeah, kinda. If you've ever tried getting oversized cards from someone else (say, at a Helvault party or the Commander release), you'll know that it's pretty hard to collect them. Because they're cool. They're like, as cool as the normal sized ones, but BIGGER.
Commanders:
Basandra, Battle Seraph | Diaochan, Artful Beauty | Mayael the Anima | Nath of the Gilt Leaf | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Raksha Golden Cub | Rayne, Academy Chancellor | Roon of the Hidden Realm
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/337-pokerbob1s-casual-trading-emporium
Because it didn't use a set mechanic?
Commanders:
Basandra, Battle Seraph | Diaochan, Artful Beauty | Mayael the Anima | Nath of the Gilt Leaf | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Raksha Golden Cub | Rayne, Academy Chancellor | Roon of the Hidden Realm
But the policy was all rares from the first X sets...right?
Currently offering 2 non-foil Kolighan's Command for a Date Stamped foil!
convert bulk into good cards? PucaTrade - https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/21195
Ebay - decks/Promos/DVDs
Trade thread (constantly updated)
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/trading-post/details/337-pokerbob1s-casual-trading-emporium
They weren't all, just MOST of those rares...
No, some weren't included. Karakas, for example, was recently printed as a judge promo.
Karakas wasn't a rare, by the way.
The MOTL price list (which uses averages from completed eBay auctions in the last month) currently says:
Card Price StdDev Average High Low Change RawN
---- ----- ------ ------- ------- ------ ------ -----
Diaochan, Artful Beauty, 41.34, 0.00, 41.34, 41.34, 41.34, 0.00, 1
Loyal Retainers, 74.95, 24.95, 74.95, 99.90, 50.00, 0.00, 2
While the numbers are low, it pretty much points to there being no chance of getting either of these for $25 a copy off eBay.
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
With a larger print run?
Normal:
Kaalia of the Vast
The Mimeoplasm
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Phelddagrif (New Art)
Hanna, Ship's Navigator (New Art)
Zedruu the Greathearted
Vendilion Clique (Judge Art)
Other Creatures
Dark Confidant
Goblin Welder (New Art)
Sorcery
Decree of Pain (New Art)
Decimate (New Art)
Instant
Force of Will
Grim Tutor (New Art)
Enchantments
Sylvan Library (New Art)
Future Sight (New Art)
Artifacts
Scroll Rack (New Art)
Smokestack (New Art)
Land
Command Tower (New Art)
Oversized:
Sliver Queen (New Art)
Uril, the Miststalker
Norin the Wary (New Art)
Zur the Enchanter
Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Brion Stoutarm
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Karn, Silver Golem (New Art)
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
A lot of people will probably think that's way too much value for one set, but I feel that if a card's not on the reserved list that they should print it.
I would pay $75-$100 for the above set and feel satisfied with my purchase.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
It was similar before. One of the verry first foil Xihao's was on ebay for about 175$. I understand your list but it doesen't say anything about the price they will fetch. And no one said that we're talking about "how much the cards will cost" he just made a statement that no one can complain about the value of the contens from this product. Not more not less.
I'm not saying they can't make mistakes, I'm saying they have better information than "I talked to a bunch of people on the Internet and they really hate it". WotC isn't going around saying "these are really popular" because they have evidence that they're really unpopular. They know a lot more about their market research than you do, and they can read public discussion on the Internet just as easily as you can.
I agree here.
From my point of view a lot of magic veterans have a completetly different view (as I do as well) on the commander deck's we received last time compared to new players.
A really huge number of players did start playing Magic just because of this product! To reach a completely new playerbase is as important to WotC as to keep the "traditional" players happy.
5 of my friends starteed playing Magic just because of Commander Deck's and guess what they all like the oversized cards, they are happy with all the Legends they have in and not a single one did complain about...
They will love all the oversized cards when they'll get it from me because I don't like/need them.