Didn't MaRo say that Shadowmoor is not a graveyard themed set? If this is true then why in the first instance is there 41 hits for graveyard on the Orb?
Cheers,
Paul
kamigawa wasn't a graveyard theme, yet soulshift exists. ditto recover from cold snap.
it need not be a set's THEME in order to have a lot of cards that interact with that aspect of the game.
What if Persist is just a Keyword for the Nether Traitor ability? It'd be awesome in my book, seeing as Nether Traitor is one of my favorite cards...ever!!!!
well, seen as we seem to be discussing wither, im guesing something silly, like:
Wither N {cost}: if {this} is in a graveyard put {N} -1/-1 coutner/s on target creature
seen as wither seems to suggest something a bit more long term than a one time effect, cos withering happens over time, and creatures benefit from dying: what if by dying, they cause the withering of others through an ability like this?
also, im wondering about the insane number of times copy pops up in the orb... maybes it goes into persist? i dunno, but its gonna be interesting
As far as persist goes, it has to be a repeatable ability since the pre-con description specifically says "your minions repeatedly jump back to play". My guess is recover for creature. Whatever it is, it has to be something that brings the card itself back into play.
Wither probably has to do with -1/-1 counters since there is so many hits in the orb.
I really, really, REALLY, hope Wizards carefully designed all the untap guys. There are so many good tap abilities and tap-granting auras and equipments that unrestricted untap would mean 2-cards combo aplenty.
As far as persist goes, it has to be a repeatable ability since the pre-con description specifically says "your minions repeatedly jump back to play". My guess is recover for creature. Whatever it is, it has to be something that brings the card itself back into play.
Wither probably has to do with -1/-1 counters since there is so many hits in the orb.
I really, really, REALLY, hope Wizards carefully designed all the untap guys. There are so many good tap abilities and tap-granting auras and equipments that unrestricted untap would mean 2-cards combo aplenty.
Well that seems to be a very plausible explanation for all the hits for graveyard. When I have a bit more time I will go through the gatherer and pick up how often the word graveyard appears in other sets.
Cheers,
Paul
36 hits for Lorwyn.
The instances in the orb are certainly not only going to be on the one mechanic.
Graveyard triggers, 'raise dead' effects, and other things of that nature are going to soak up some instances as well.
I have to comment on the first post as well.
People are still trying to push the tribal model. The theme decks are mechanic-based, not tribally based, evidenced by their own descriptions.
Also, I entreat everyone to become familiar with the orb results before they make any sort of speculation concerning new mechanics.
('Copy' and 'form' are words used in new mechanics...I haven't seen anyone try to make form work, heh)
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I think there are two likely possibilities for persist. One is the already mentioned "if this is going to the GY, you can play it for the persist cost". Allows for engines and recursion without being too much like buyback (since you can't repeatedly play it over multiple turns. It is a bit much like replicate then on spells, but different on critters. It might be too close to regeneration there.
I prefer something more along the lines of a spell or creature that suspends itself (gets removed from game) instead of going to the graveyard and can be replayed from there.
Wither I think will put -1/-1 counters on creatures. Not sure how to have it impact players.
Very sure now that Q is the untap sign, thanks to the green white deck. Overkill looks fun, and i am underwhelmed by another white blue aura deck.
Ugh, untap mechanic? The merfolk in Lorwyn weren't very fun. I hope it doesn't play like them at all. Playing them was a CHORE, and against them was even more dull.
1. It would survive no-regeneration clauses.
2. Aura are not played much. (so that the lost of the aura vs. regen is not really an issue.)
One reason I rather see the persist mechanic trigger on going to graveyard vs. later on (a-la recover) is that the name implies that the creature keeps on going. It doesn't evoke a zombify-like effect like recover did.
(+1 if you detected myself contradicting what I said earlier :D.)
new, seemingly interesting mechanics, plus hybrid mana, and the possibilty of seeing reflecting pool come back has me hoping for some good previews this next monday.
Here’s a breakdown of the “reverse–evoke” idea, using Orb results.
Persist (14) When (47) this (80) permanent (16) is (61) put (73) into (89) a (204) graveyard (41) from (62) play, (142) you (195) may (45) play (142) it (142) for (27) its (39) persist (14) cost (15).
Since Persist appears twice in this version of the ability, we need to choose between seven cards with the ability, or an ability that won’t reference itself in its reminder text.
Here’s a breakdown of the “reverse–evoke” idea, using Orb results.
Persist (14) When (47) this (80) permanent (16) is (61) put (73) into (89) a (204) graveyard (41) from (62) play, (142) you (195) may (45) play (142) it (142) for (27) its (39) persist (14) cost (15).
Since Persist appears twice in this version of the ability, we need to choose between seven cards with the ability, or an ability that won’t reference itself in its reminder text.
Lorwyn's champion, for example has 9 cards with the ability, and it does not reference itself. It also was not an ability that appeared on commons...
Clash was referenced on 23 cards.
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Lorwyn's champion, for example has 9 cards with the ability, and it does not reference itself. It also was not an ability that appeared on commons...
Clash was referenced on 23 cards.
Yes, but, if Persist is an ability with a cost, like Echo, Buyback or Flashback, those all label their cost. Buyback calls it the buyback cost, ect. So if the reminder text mentions a cost, odds are very good it would call that cost its "persist cost." Unless... the cost were not included right after the Persist keyword. I suppose that persist could allow a permanent's controller to replay it for its mana cost. That's possible.
Does anyone here remember the Battletech card game? In it, they had a state that was like super-tapped, called "depleted". I'm thinking Q: will be something like that, but unlike "does not untap during it's next untap phase" it can be used with the creature is tapped to essentially double-tap it.
Gravekin Rager :1mana::symb:
Creature - Elemental
Persist :2mana::symb: (When Gravekin Rager is put into a graveyard from play, you may pay :2mana::symb:. If you do, return Gravekin Rager to play.)
When Gravekin Rager comes into play, if you paid its persist cost, Gravekin Rager deals 1 damage to target player.
2/1
I still think this is the most effective wording. It does not need to state Persist in the reminder text, and we've seen this kind of wording on Reborn Hero. It also has the ability to add extra bonuses, so there could be 11 persist creatures and 3 with extra abilities.
I'm really hoping there is an enchanment that grants Persist to all creatures you control.
Hell's Rejection 3BBB
Enchantment
Creatures you control have "Persist: Pay X life", where X is that creature's converted manacost.
Does anyone here remember the Battletech card game? In it, they had a state that was like super-tapped, called "depleted". I'm thinking Q: will be something like that, but unlike "does not untap during it's next untap phase" it can be used with the creature is tapped to essentially double-tap it.
That would require counters. It would be way to complicated for new players to make a symbol for that.
I'm hoping that the persist mechanic is more like Knight of the Holy Nimbus It's a cost that your opponent must pay if they don't want the creature to stick around.
I'm hoping that the persist mechanic is more like Knight of the Holy Nimbus It's a cost that your opponent must pay if they don't want the creature to stick around.
I don't think the name properly fits the flavor of that ability.
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Standard: RSupa' Fly Crusha' SlighR BSuicide Black B
I'm hoping that the persist mechanic is more like Knight of the Holy Nimbus It's a cost that your opponent must pay if they don't want the creature to stick around.
Opponent - 16 in the orb.
It certainly fits.
Lorwyn has 5 if you don't count clash, which is a mechanic that uses opponent in its rules and reminder text. (Then it would be something like 30+)
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"The persist mechanic allows them to laugh in the face of death, or even benefit from dying. You'll weave combos and frustrate your opponent as your minions repeatedly jump back to play. "
Doesn't seem like they have much of a choice as to if they jump into play.
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Standard: RSupa' Fly Crusha' SlighR BSuicide Black B
that's too similar to madness
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
kamigawa wasn't a graveyard theme, yet soulshift exists. ditto recover from cold snap.
it need not be a set's THEME in order to have a lot of cards that interact with that aspect of the game.
Wither N {cost}: if {this} is in a graveyard put {N} -1/-1 coutner/s on target creature
seen as wither seems to suggest something a bit more long term than a one time effect, cos withering happens over time, and creatures benefit from dying: what if by dying, they cause the withering of others through an ability like this?
also, im wondering about the insane number of times copy pops up in the orb... maybes it goes into persist? i dunno, but its gonna be interesting
Wither probably has to do with -1/-1 counters since there is so many hits in the orb.
I really, really, REALLY, hope Wizards carefully designed all the untap guys. There are so many good tap abilities and tap-granting auras and equipments that unrestricted untap would mean 2-cards combo aplenty.
You mean like this card?
36 hits for Lorwyn.
The instances in the orb are certainly not only going to be on the one mechanic.
Graveyard triggers, 'raise dead' effects, and other things of that nature are going to soak up some instances as well.
I have to comment on the first post as well.
People are still trying to push the tribal model. The theme decks are mechanic-based, not tribally based, evidenced by their own descriptions.
Also, I entreat everyone to become familiar with the orb results before they make any sort of speculation concerning new mechanics.
('Copy' and 'form' are words used in new mechanics...I haven't seen anyone try to make form work, heh)
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I prefer something more along the lines of a spell or creature that suspends itself (gets removed from game) instead of going to the graveyard and can be replayed from there.
Wither I think will put -1/-1 counters on creatures. Not sure how to have it impact players.
Very sure now that Q is the untap sign, thanks to the green white deck. Overkill looks fun, and i am underwhelmed by another white blue aura deck.
Could be something like Haunt from Guildpact. Blind Hunter
EDH: WEight-and-a-half-tailsW
EDH: U/ Dralnu, Lich Lord B/
Extended:U/ Fish U/
It would be much better than regeneration since:
1. It would survive no-regeneration clauses.
2. Aura are not played much. (so that the lost of the aura vs. regen is not really an issue.)
One reason I rather see the persist mechanic trigger on going to graveyard vs. later on (a-la recover) is that the name implies that the creature keeps on going. It doesn't evoke a zombify-like effect like recover did.
(+1 if you detected myself contradicting what I said earlier :D.)
hahaha ... anyone else think of Anchorman? WHAAAAAMMMYY hahaha : )
MaRo already said he had seen people 100% correctly guess some cards from the SHM preview pack, and Scar was certainly one of them.
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Persist (14)
When (47) this (80) permanent (16) is (61) put (73) into (89) a (204) graveyard (41) from (62) play, (142) you (195) may (45) play (142) it (142) for (27) its (39) persist (14) cost (15).
Since Persist appears twice in this version of the ability, we need to choose between seven cards with the ability, or an ability that won’t reference itself in its reminder text.
Lorwyn's champion, for example has 9 cards with the ability, and it does not reference itself. It also was not an ability that appeared on commons...
Clash was referenced on 23 cards.
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Yes, but, if Persist is an ability with a cost, like Echo, Buyback or Flashback, those all label their cost. Buyback calls it the buyback cost, ect. So if the reminder text mentions a cost, odds are very good it would call that cost its "persist cost." Unless... the cost were not included right after the Persist keyword. I suppose that persist could allow a permanent's controller to replay it for its mana cost. That's possible.
Creature - Elemental
Persist :2mana::symb: (When Gravekin Rager is put into a graveyard from play, you may pay :2mana::symb:. If you do, return Gravekin Rager to play.)
When Gravekin Rager comes into play, if you paid its persist cost, Gravekin Rager deals 1 damage to target player.
2/1
I still think this is the most effective wording. It does not need to state Persist in the reminder text, and we've seen this kind of wording on Reborn Hero. It also has the ability to add extra bonuses, so there could be 11 persist creatures and 3 with extra abilities.
I'm really hoping there is an enchanment that grants Persist to all creatures you control.
Hell's Rejection 3BBB
Enchantment
Creatures you control have "Persist: Pay X life", where X is that creature's converted manacost.
Suiblack with this and Damnation? Oh yes.
That would require counters. It would be way to complicated for new players to make a symbol for that.
R Supa' Fly Crusha' Sligh R
B Suicide Black B
H/W LIST
I don't think the name properly fits the flavor of that ability.
R Supa' Fly Crusha' Sligh R
B Suicide Black B
H/W LIST
Opponent - 16 in the orb.
It certainly fits.
Lorwyn has 5 if you don't count clash, which is a mechanic that uses opponent in its rules and reminder text. (Then it would be something like 30+)
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Doesn't seem like they have much of a choice as to if they jump into play.
R Supa' Fly Crusha' Sligh R
B Suicide Black B
H/W LIST