So I am sure everyone has seen how popular the new BUG Infect deck has become featuring Blighted Agent, Plague Stinger, and Noble Hiearch. It is quite a fun, lethal, and efficient creature combo deck. This is currently what I am playing on Magic Online. I don't know enough about the deck yet to start the primer but I love this deck enough to give it a starting thread.
I have to say that I think the deck is just wonderful. I have played infect in standard and in legacy so this is a perfect addition to my collection. I would like to try out a version with some draw spells and see how that works out.
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"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
I played a mana base with 2 gemstone mine and 2 cathedral over some fetches and forests and I loved it except when you got pathed with no forests left in your deck
Ari disliked the 3rd seize over the 2nd blessing and we have since updated the list. No list should be running less then 4 swells and 4 mights. Mutagenic growth and giant growth should be your first cuts. Also running no basics is terrible, sometimes you just can't afford to bolt yourself just to get a green source. Running cathedral and 4 nexus is risky too, no green sources is gg.
Got 6th in the MTGO Modern Premier event this past Sunday with BUG Infect. I beat the mirror round one 2-1, beat lingering souls jund 2-1 round two, beat lingering souls jund 2-0 round 3, lost to RUG Scapeshift 1-2 round 4, Beat storm 2-0 round 5, beat rg tron 2-0 round 6, and lost to twin 0-2 round 7. I faced jund in the top 8. He was on the play game one and played back to back discard spells for my infect dudes, I couldn't catch up after that start. Game two I mulled to 5 and again he had a discard spell, the game ended quickly. It was a pretty disappointing top 8 for me but the deck ran very well. Here is the link to top 8:http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/4596334
I have experimented with a very similar list. I have always had more security playing thoughtseize main. I find too often distortion is dead in the water if they have removal and blessing can't protect against things like Lilianna which thoughtseize preemptively removes. I was wondering if you could explain why you still find it advantageous to play those spells main instead of targeted discard?
While distortion strike can be a dead card it is a meta call to run it over thoughtseize. Against lingering jund and uw I've found one of the only ways to win is draw blighted agent, running distortion strike effectively makes all my creatures blighted agents. Thoughtseize wasn't initially put in the sideboard because it can protect our dudes from lilly or force them to discard a blocker, it was put there because we are a dog to twin and storm is a very close match up. The storm match is very winnable without thoughtseize, you just have to race them. The lingering jund match is much less winnable when you don't have strikes then the storm match is when you don't have thoughtseize. Kibler's deck is also gaining popularity and distortion strike really shines there too. The other reason for running distortion strike main is it is the best answer to the way most people are choosing to fight infect. Players are either running lots of removal or running lots of blockers. Blessing and vines as well as skite in the sb take care of an overload on removal, distortion strike and blighted agent take care of the blockers.
Since I started playing the deck in DEs and PEs my total match record is 73-45. My match record against jund is currently 12-7. Here is how I play the jund match: For starters if you are on the draw keep in mind how good your keep is against turn one thoughtseize. I've seen way too many infect players lose to having their only infect dude get taken by a discard spell. Secondly you must be cautious of the overabundance of removal jund runs, if you have vines in hand and they didn't open on a discard spell then they probably don't have it in hand. If that is the case then you want to wait until you can cast your guy and leave vines up. Generally speaking I will not keep a hand with only one infect creature if it doesn't also have a protection spell, my keeps against jund need to either have a way to protect my threat or have a replacement for when it dies. Jund is one of the only matches where I won't hold back my pump spells. Generally speaking I don't cast a groundswell or the like if I'm not killing my opponent this turn or the next, against jund that is not the case. I almost always cast my pump spells immediately against jund to ensure I don't lose them to discard. While rancor is almost always one of the worst cards in your deck jund is one of the matches where that isn't the case, a reusable pump spell that gets through blockers is exactly what you want against them. Inkmoth Nexus is by far one of the best cards you can have in the jund match, value it highly. It can't be touched by removal except at instant speed which ensures you get maximum value out of your vines and pump spells. It is evasive and also completely gets around lilianna as well. One of the most important things to remember when playing infect is that you don't have to kill them on turn 3. Many times my plan is to just play out multiple infect guys and swing for 1 here and there. This makes my opponents think my hand is either full of blessing effects or just lands and allows me to come out of nowhere and kill them when they don't expect it on turn 6 or so. This plan is especially effective when you have few cards in hand. With the deck I used to top 8 the PE my SB plan for jund is -3 mutagenic growth -1 might of old krosa +3 spellskite +1 distortion strike. Mutagenic growth is just awful unless you know they are running jund charm, might of old krosa is the worst pump spell here because it is at its best at sorcery speed. Spellskite is a wonderful blocker and forces them to use lilly or terminate which then allows you to bonus your pump spells as protection against the bolt they will try to use on your infect creature. It should be obvious by now why the distortion strike gets boarded in.
EDIT:
@milk I'd rather have ways to get through blockers and protect my guys then run discard in an attempt to strip one of the 3-4 lilly my opponent will play. Lilly comes down turn 3 which is often too slow, you can also just get a nexus in play or sac your hierarch and untap and kill them. Lilly is by far one of the least scary cards jund can cast against you, I'd be much more upset to see them cast souls which matches up very poorly with your thougthseizes. Again, it is a meta call but in my experience has worked very well.
@Lauge One of the key parts of playing infect successfully is getting comfortable baiting your opponent. You play a deck that can kill people on turn 2 with some luck, your opponents will often be terrified that this is that lucky game where you get them turn 2. Often my opponents will attempt to determine how to get the most value out of their removal spell when really they should just be thrilled to kill my dude, use this to your advantage. Once you learn what situations your opponent is holding out for you can bait them into thinking they have reached that moment. Casting a giant growth or groundswell main phase when you know you're sitting on vines or blessing is a great way to do this, casting a vines with kicker while having blessing in hand will almost always guarantee they play their removal straight into your blessing. It takes some getting used to to figure out exactly how to maximize your hand but once you get used to the deck it can be very easy to bait removal/blockers and win games due to opponents misreading situations.
Really appreciate the detailed rationale for distortion and blessing. I definitely see how these cards are more viable main vs a greater number of decks. For the time being I may keep discard, only because the sole threat at my LGS is spells (rather than blockers). Our jund hasn't moved to souls, and there is no twin player I have seen yet.
Also, I am running birds because I do not have hierarch, so finding B or even BB for crusader isn't usually too bad (I run two main because of the amount of red removal I am up against). The lack of hierarch also hurts the speed of the deck enough that the discard is a good fit for maintaining a grip on the board. Dang, I'm realizing how important she is for the deck. I should really pick them up huh?
Also, I am running birds because I do not have hierarch, so finding B or even BB for crusader isn't usually too bad (I run two main because of the amount of red removal I am up against). The lack of hierarch also hurts the speed of the deck enough that the discard is a good fit for maintaining a grip on the board. Dang, I'm realizing how important she is for the deck. I should really pick them up huh?
I've considered running birds so that I can support distortion strike main alongside two phyrexian crusader, the problem is that noble hierarch doubles as a pump spell. Having a hierarch makes a large difference in the damage out put of your creatures, having both a hierarch and a pendelhaven in play feels amazing. Another thing to take into account is that with a hierarch in play you force opponents playing darkblast (which has gained popularity as a tool against the mirror, I for one do not like it against the mirror at all) to cast it at your declare attackers step enabling you to protect with pump spells instead of being scared to play them because of the darkblast. There is also the corner case where it is easier to kill an opponent 20-0 with a hierarch then with a bird. I've beat melira twice by using noble hierarch beats when they got a melira out. I don't actually own them rl either and have been looking on ebay, they are definitely worth it and will go up once PTQs start in a few weeks.
Just wanted to let you all know I have finished the first few sections of an BUG Infect primer and sent a message to the moderator inquiring how to go about getting it posted. Keep an eye out for it in the next day or two, looking forward to your feedback!
EDIT: Perhaps we should considering moving discussion of the BUG Infect archetype over to the primer thread since this one doesn't have much in it?
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Blighted Agent
4 Plague Stinger
Spells
2 Apostle's Blessing
3 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
3 Giant Growth
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Pendelhaven
2 Forest
4 Nature's Claim
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
2 Dismember
3 Spellskite
I have to say that I think the deck is just wonderful. I have played infect in standard and in legacy so this is a perfect addition to my collection. I would like to try out a version with some draw spells and see how that works out.
Signature by Rivenor of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
"In response.. Mana Leak?"
"Every game loss is due to your inability to interact with your opponent"
Ari's updated list was with 3 thoughtseize main and one in the board.
In the OP you absolutely want a 4th groundswell. The point is to cast it turn 2 or 3 when you will still have land.
Level 1 Judge
WUBRG
My deck:
2 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Pendelhaven
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Blighted Agent
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Plague Stinger
2 Apostle's Blessing
2 Distortion Strike
1 Giant Growth
4 Groundswell
4 Might of Old Krosa
3 Mutagenic Growth
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Dismember
1 Distortion Strike
3 Seal of Primordium
3 Spellskite
4 Thoughtseize
I have experimented with a very similar list. I have always had more security playing thoughtseize main. I find too often distortion is dead in the water if they have removal and blessing can't protect against things like Lilianna which thoughtseize preemptively removes. I was wondering if you could explain why you still find it advantageous to play those spells main instead of targeted discard?
Since I started playing the deck in DEs and PEs my total match record is 73-45. My match record against jund is currently 12-7. Here is how I play the jund match: For starters if you are on the draw keep in mind how good your keep is against turn one thoughtseize. I've seen way too many infect players lose to having their only infect dude get taken by a discard spell. Secondly you must be cautious of the overabundance of removal jund runs, if you have vines in hand and they didn't open on a discard spell then they probably don't have it in hand. If that is the case then you want to wait until you can cast your guy and leave vines up. Generally speaking I will not keep a hand with only one infect creature if it doesn't also have a protection spell, my keeps against jund need to either have a way to protect my threat or have a replacement for when it dies. Jund is one of the only matches where I won't hold back my pump spells. Generally speaking I don't cast a groundswell or the like if I'm not killing my opponent this turn or the next, against jund that is not the case. I almost always cast my pump spells immediately against jund to ensure I don't lose them to discard. While rancor is almost always one of the worst cards in your deck jund is one of the matches where that isn't the case, a reusable pump spell that gets through blockers is exactly what you want against them. Inkmoth Nexus is by far one of the best cards you can have in the jund match, value it highly. It can't be touched by removal except at instant speed which ensures you get maximum value out of your vines and pump spells. It is evasive and also completely gets around lilianna as well. One of the most important things to remember when playing infect is that you don't have to kill them on turn 3. Many times my plan is to just play out multiple infect guys and swing for 1 here and there. This makes my opponents think my hand is either full of blessing effects or just lands and allows me to come out of nowhere and kill them when they don't expect it on turn 6 or so. This plan is especially effective when you have few cards in hand. With the deck I used to top 8 the PE my SB plan for jund is -3 mutagenic growth -1 might of old krosa +3 spellskite +1 distortion strike. Mutagenic growth is just awful unless you know they are running jund charm, might of old krosa is the worst pump spell here because it is at its best at sorcery speed. Spellskite is a wonderful blocker and forces them to use lilly or terminate which then allows you to bonus your pump spells as protection against the bolt they will try to use on your infect creature. It should be obvious by now why the distortion strike gets boarded in.
EDIT:
@milk I'd rather have ways to get through blockers and protect my guys then run discard in an attempt to strip one of the 3-4 lilly my opponent will play. Lilly comes down turn 3 which is often too slow, you can also just get a nexus in play or sac your hierarch and untap and kill them. Lilly is by far one of the least scary cards jund can cast against you, I'd be much more upset to see them cast souls which matches up very poorly with your thougthseizes. Again, it is a meta call but in my experience has worked very well.
@Lauge One of the key parts of playing infect successfully is getting comfortable baiting your opponent. You play a deck that can kill people on turn 2 with some luck, your opponents will often be terrified that this is that lucky game where you get them turn 2. Often my opponents will attempt to determine how to get the most value out of their removal spell when really they should just be thrilled to kill my dude, use this to your advantage. Once you learn what situations your opponent is holding out for you can bait them into thinking they have reached that moment. Casting a giant growth or groundswell main phase when you know you're sitting on vines or blessing is a great way to do this, casting a vines with kicker while having blessing in hand will almost always guarantee they play their removal straight into your blessing. It takes some getting used to to figure out exactly how to maximize your hand but once you get used to the deck it can be very easy to bait removal/blockers and win games due to opponents misreading situations.
Really appreciate the detailed rationale for distortion and blessing. I definitely see how these cards are more viable main vs a greater number of decks. For the time being I may keep discard, only because the sole threat at my LGS is spells (rather than blockers). Our jund hasn't moved to souls, and there is no twin player I have seen yet.
Also, I am running birds because I do not have hierarch, so finding B or even BB for crusader isn't usually too bad (I run two main because of the amount of red removal I am up against). The lack of hierarch also hurts the speed of the deck enough that the discard is a good fit for maintaining a grip on the board. Dang, I'm realizing how important she is for the deck. I should really pick them up huh?
I've considered running birds so that I can support distortion strike main alongside two phyrexian crusader, the problem is that noble hierarch doubles as a pump spell. Having a hierarch makes a large difference in the damage out put of your creatures, having both a hierarch and a pendelhaven in play feels amazing. Another thing to take into account is that with a hierarch in play you force opponents playing darkblast (which has gained popularity as a tool against the mirror, I for one do not like it against the mirror at all) to cast it at your declare attackers step enabling you to protect with pump spells instead of being scared to play them because of the darkblast. There is also the corner case where it is easier to kill an opponent 20-0 with a hierarch then with a bird. I've beat melira twice by using noble hierarch beats when they got a melira out. I don't actually own them rl either and have been looking on ebay, they are definitely worth it and will go up once PTQs start in a few weeks.
EDIT: Perhaps we should considering moving discussion of the BUG Infect archetype over to the primer thread since this one doesn't have much in it?