This is awesome. Really, I salute the OP! Having just started getting back into the game after 5-6 years of not touching a Magic card, I'm a little fuzzy about how these work. I remember some years back (before 2001 when I stopped playing) there was a combo that you could get to go off infinitely and there was a rule that was created that limited those effects to only 3-4 iterations before the rule kicked in and stopped it. After doing a few keyword searches through the comp rules I couldn't find any such rule. Does this rule exist? Would you really able to channel 4000 mana into a fireball using this combo assuming your opponent was powerless to stop it? Sorry if this is noobish, like I said, I'm just getting back into the swing of things.
This is awesome. Really, I salute the OP! Having just started getting back into the game after 5-6 years of not touching a Magic card, I'm a little fuzzy about how these work. I remember some years back (before 2001 when I stopped playing) there was a combo that you could get to go off infinitely and there was a rule that was created that limited those effects to only 3-4 iterations before the rule kicked in and stopped it. After doing a few keyword searches through the comp rules I couldn't find any such rule. Does this rule exist? Would you really able to channel 4000 mana into a fireball using this combo assuming your opponent was powerless to stop it? Sorry if this is noobish, like I said, I'm just getting back into the swing of things.
I don't recall ever hearing about this rule. If your opponent can't stop it, good game!
I used to run with an old infinite combo with Enduring Renewal, Aluren, and Mogg Fanatic back in the day in a multiplayer game. Fun times
This is awesome. Really, I salute the OP! Having just started getting back into the game after 5-6 years of not touching a Magic card, I'm a little fuzzy about how these work. I remember some years back (before 2001 when I stopped playing) there was a combo that you could get to go off infinitely and there was a rule that was created that limited those effects to only 3-4 iterations before the rule kicked in and stopped it. After doing a few keyword searches through the comp rules I couldn't find any such rule. Does this rule exist? Would you really able to channel 4000 mana into a fireball using this combo assuming your opponent was powerless to stop it? Sorry if this is noobish, like I said, I'm just getting back into the swing of things.
That sounds like a "house rule." There's effects that say "Use this ability only once per turn" but I don't think there ever was a rule that said you can only go "infinite" 4 times and then you have to stop.
I am somewhat surprised with these combos and how they work! Wow! I checked with a guy at work whom has played since the days of Beta and he told me that the rule I was reffering to was actually a tournament rule back in the day. He also said that as far as he knows I won't find anything about it in the Comp Rules. I have been looking for a good way to abuse the hell out of Rune-Scarred Demonrecently and this might make it possible for me to summon Ol' Roony a thousand times. Hell, if you tossed a couple copies of Dark Ritual in there you could potentially have your Golem combo out by turn 5, maybe less. I was thinking about something along the lines of Rune-Scarred Demon, Cackling Counterpart, Evil Twin, Parallel Lives, Clone etc. and this combo makes it possible to really make your opponent just get up from the table and walk away! lol. You could even use the demon to fetch what you're missing for your combo. Course, a Demonic Tutor or Diabolic Tutor would do the same thing a lot cheaper, lol, but then you miss out on the 6/6 flyer!
I am somewhat surprised with these combos and how they work! Wow! I checked with a guy at work whom has played since the days of Beta and he told me that the rule I was reffering to was actually a tournament rule back in the day. He also said that as far as he knows I won't find anything about it in the Comp Rules. I have been looking for a good way to abuse the hell out of Rune-Scarred Demonrecently and this might make it possible for me to summon Ol' Roony a thousand times. Hell, if you tossed a couple copies of Dark Ritual in there you could potentially have your Golem combo out by turn 5, maybe less. I was thinking about something along the lines of Rune-Scarred Demon, Cackling Counterpart, Evil Twin, Parallel Lives, Clone etc. and this combo makes it possible to really make your opponent just get up from the table and walk away! lol. You could even use the demon to fetch what you're missing for your combo. Course, a Demonic Tutor or Diabolic Tutor would do the same thing a lot cheaper, lol, but then you miss out on the 6/6 flyer!
Love the enthusiasm for the deck! I think it has potential too.
Just a couple things though...this is intended for the Modern format which includes cards from Mirrodin up through the most recent MTG set as well as the Core Sets from 8th Edition up through the most recent set (M12). Unfortunately Dark Ritual is not Modern legal, and for that matter, Demonic Tutor isn't either. Maybe you're getting it confused since both of those cards have been printed in the "modern" card frame in the Divine vs. Demonic duel deck. Special printings such as Duel Decks, From the Vault, Premium Deck Series, etc, can include cards from any set in MTG history but the individual cards contained in them don't overrule their legality in the various formats.
And actually, this deck already has some great acceleration even without Dark Ritual in the form of tapping blue creatures with Grand Architect.
As for Rune-Scarred Demon, it is an interesting choice for this deck I guess as a way to find a card you're looking for, but for the most part, Fabricate or one of the transmuters already does a great job of that since you'll mostly be looking for an artifact to get the combos going. Once the combos are going, there's ways to get what you need in hand.
Also, how were you planning on reanimating the Demon repeatedly? The Nim Deathmantle/Composite Golem combo reanimates the Golem only because the activated ability from the Golem pays for its own recursion.
In my opinion, the Demon just doesn't fit into the overall game plan of this deck. But please stick around and offer any other ideas or decklists you might have for this deck. I should be posting a preliminary decklist shortly.
Also, how were you planning on reanimating the Demon repeatedly? The Nim Deathmantle/Composite Golem combo reanimates the Golem only because the activated ability from the Golem pays for its own recursion.
Pretty much any sac outlet will do, in that case... but alongside the Golem/Deathmantle combo, such sac outlets usually end up becoming win cons on their own (Blasting Station, Nantuko Husk, Bloodthrone Vampire... you name it), so using them with the Demon is somewhat redundant (as they say, a "win-more" situation), because you already have everything you need to win.
I guess I didn't notice the tournament legality of the deck, so I'm apologize for the suggestions. I'm not sure how I even got linked over to this thread the very first time but I'm glad I did! lol. I mostly play casually, and my local store, owned by a player that started on day 1 when the game came out I think, lol, he likes to see the older cards get play so he frequently holds tournaments where the #1 rule is, there are no rules...lol. Not that I can't build a deck for a specific format, my Inni Wolf deck right now is dominating. But I am very excited about this deck! I don't like to net-deck so once you post something I'll def have to play test it and then add my own spin so I don't feel like a plagerist come FNM. My comment about the demon was more to illustrate how this combo, combined with Cackling Counterpart, and the other cards which would be legal could churn out a mass of 6/6 fliers in a single turn. You use the demon to fetch another one, then when you've fetched all the ones in the deck you could snag a cackling counterpart and then use the token's "comes into play" ability to snag the next counterpart, etc. Of course if you just can't seem to find a card for your combo, or things just don't go right you could use the demon to fetch something you needed to get the ball rolling, but I like the fliers for the intimidation factor! lol. Course, having an army of creatures having summoning sickness for a turn before you can use them does leave you open and vulnerable for a turn! I guess how you get around to winning is all in your own style!
So I failed to get all the cards needed to build this deck as it appears in the O.P.'s original post on Friday, so I had to improvise quite a bit. I only had 1 Sun Titan, so I ended up subbing 2 Sheoldred, Whispering Onein which I realize isn't exactly the same, but she could fill a similar slot as the Sun Titan. I also couldn't get a single O-Stone so I was a bit screwed there. I also couldn't get Emmy either, so to fill the slot of the third Sun Titan and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn I ended up tossing 2 Rune-Scarred Demons in place. I couldn't get your shmoo: Staff of Domination nor could I get more than 2 Everflowing Chalices, and thinking that even attempting to play this deck with all the holes in the decklist was probably going to be mega fail I just started throwing in some random crap like Typhoid Rats to chump block, upped the counts of Pila-Pala and Composite Golem and was surprised at the results on Sunday. A buddy of mine had an MTG game day and about ten of us showed up and played all day. I played 9 games with my variant of this deck and won all but 1 due to a friggin Mana Leak on my Rune-Scarred Demon that I had planned to use to fetch my Blue Sun's Zenith. I wanted a good test of my variant so I told people what was I playing so they could pick their best challenge and I wasn't disappointed. In one game I had an Architect and a Mantle but lacked the artifacts that interacted. I drew a demon used it to fetch the scarecrow while I was holding Sheoldred in my hand. Thankfully my buddy Jon killed my demon and 2 turns later after Sheoldred dropped and my next upkeep came around I was able to fetch a Zenith. All in all, this deck rocks. I can't wait to see what you guys come up with!
So I failed to get all the cards needed to build this deck as it appears in the O.P.'s original post on Friday, so I had to improvise quite a bit. I only had 1 Sun Titan, so I ended up subbing 2 Sheoldred, Whispering Onein which I realize isn't exactly the same, but she could fill a similar slot as the Sun Titan. I also couldn't get a single O-Stone so I was a bit screwed there. I also couldn't get Emmy either, so to fill the slot of the third Sun Titan and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn I ended up tossing 2 Rune-Scarred Demons in place. I couldn't get your shmoo: Staff of Domination nor could I get more than 2 Everflowing Chalices, and thinking that even attempting to play this deck with all the holes in the decklist was probably going to be mega fail I just started throwing in some random crap like Typhoid Rats to chump block, upped the counts of Pila-Pala and Composite Golem and was surprised at the results on Sunday. A buddy of mine had an MTG game day and about ten of us showed up and played all day. I played 9 games with my variant of this deck and won all but 1 due to a friggin Mana Leak on my Rune-Scarred Demon that I had planned to use to fetch my Blue Sun's Zenith. I wanted a good test of my variant so I told people what was I playing so they could pick their best challenge and I wasn't disappointed. In one game I had an Architect and a Mantle but lacked the artifacts that interacted. I drew a demon used it to fetch the scarecrow while I was holding Sheoldred in my hand. Thankfully my buddy Jon killed my demon and 2 turns later after Sheoldred dropped and my next upkeep came around I was able to fetch a Zenith. All in all, this deck rocks. I can't wait to see what you guys come up with!
If you lack enough Titans and need a board sweeper (this deck absolutely needs one for emergencies), you could use Divine Reckoning; it's not very used because of its "flaw" (it lets one dude live on the other side), but it's still a board sweeper that can be used twice, which is good: add 2-3 copies and you can sweep the board up to 4-6 times. I chose Oblivion Stone both because the Titan can get it back and because my deck consistently generates enough mana to cast and pop it on the same turn without much effort. You could also use Black Sun's Zenith to sweep.
I've had a soft spot for this deck ever since I pulled off the combo for the first time, in a multiplayer table. It was beautiful: Zenith myself to draw my deck, Zenith two opponents and hardcast Emrakul to deal with the last one (I don't lose to decking because the Zenith gets shuffled back into the deck).
Obviously, my opponents didn't enjoy it; they got so mad that they ganged up on me on the following match.
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The card nearly every spoiled Magic player dreams of:
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"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
Yeah dude like I said this deck is owning! I am impressed with the combos. Against aggro decks I SB'd in more chumps (Typhoid Rats and Delver of Secrets) I was able to hold out to the very last turn when Zenith popped! I had anticipated survivability problems and thought it best to add some decent blockers. Of course Delver has the annoying habbit of telling the opponent what I have coming up, but since I added Mana Leaks in there as well (and I usually got at least 1 of those during the course) I played conservatively until the right moment which usually ended up being my last turn! More than half the time it came down to luck or lose and luck usually prevailed. I played a number of excellent decks yesterday, not all were tourny legal, and sticking to the Modern format obvisouly gives one somewhat of a disadvantage against causal play decks but it still rocked. Divine Reckoning is a great idea, and I might be able to snag a few this Friday. I was thinking about adding Wrath of God after I played my wife last night after my last post. She played my Inni Werewolf deck and she took me to best 3/5 and the 2 times she lost it was because of getting mana screwed. Best part about Reckoning, it synergizes well with Nim Deathmantle if you have a combo out but can't seem to get your finisher! You know for multiplayer games you might consider a random Fireball or two. Being able to hit three birds with one massive ball of burning justice would be cool to see! Of course, now that I think about it you're right, drawing out with BSZ and using it to draw your other 2 would create another infinite recursion combo allowing you to dispatch as many opponents as you had... Damn dude I really have to applaud you, this deck is badass! I thought I was clever with some of the ideas I've come up with but this deck really kicks ass! lol. It does need protection from aggro decks and combo-killers. Prey Upon frigged me up a number of times yesterday.
I cut 1 O-Stone, 1 Titan and the Azure Mage for 3 Drift of Phantasms; I'm still trying to find room for Tezzeret (maybe lower the number of Simulacrum/Chalice for that).
Hey, PoppaAdat, I'd still like to see your list!
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The card nearly every spoiled Magic player dreams of:
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
I cut 1 O-Stone, 1 Titan and the Azure Mage for 3 Drift of Phantasms; I'm still trying to find room for Tezzeret (maybe lower the number of Simulacrum/Chalice for that).
Hey, PoppaAdat, I'd still like to see your list!
Haha, yeah i would too...just picked up a pretty huge freelance job that's been eating a lot of my free time. But I'm finishing it up this week so I should post soon. I wanted to at least test it a little bit before posting but I think I might just take a stab at it and see what everyone thinks.
Glad to see you updated your list, I was wondering if anyone was still interested in the deck idea
Just curious, but in looking at the thread, there has been no mention of Open the Vaults at all. Yes, it's a six mana sorcery, but since the name of the game has been stall, stall, stall, why not play Open, since Open with Golem/Nim is an instant win, basically, and it can get back Pili-Pala, O-Ring, etc. Just my own two cents.
Just curious, but in looking at the thread, there has been no mention of Open the Vaults at all. Yes, it's a six mana sorcery, but since the name of the game has been stall, stall, stall, why not play Open, since Open with Golem/Nim is an instant win, basically, and it can get back Pili-Pala, O-Ring, etc. Just my own two cents.
Open the Vaults is totally dependant on how the opponent is dealing with your combo (unless you're dumping artifacts and enchantments into the graveyard yourself); as such, it's too unreliable.
If the opponent is running Path to Exile for removal, or trying to murder you before you go off (or both, in Zoo's case), for example, Open the Vaults is a dead card most of the time.
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The card nearly every spoiled Magic player dreams of:
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
I cut 1 O-Stone, 1 Titan and the Azure Mage for 3 Drift of Phantasms; I'm still trying to find room for Tezzeret (maybe lower the number of Simulacrum/Chalice for that).
Hey, PoppaAdat, I'd still like to see your list!
OK, man this took a while...been stewing this in my head for a while. I wanted to get some solid testing in before posting but I just don't have time right now in this part of the season.
I'm going for a Gifts/TfK build with this, which coincidentally might be a little more viable with the Zoo shake-up, but we'll see. I went U/B. I'll list some of the interactions below.
As with all the other decklists, there are multiple win-cons but pretty much this deck's main engines involve Grand Architect and/or Academy Ruins. They are pretty much the most important elements and every win-con (except the Golem/Deathmantle combo) requires their influence.
So here are the win-cons:
Grand Architect + Pili Pala + BSZ/Emrakul/Staff of Domination
Composite Golem + Nim Deathmantle + BSZ/Emrakul/Staff of Domination
Grand Architect + Skill Borrower (with Staff on top)
Grand Architect + Skill Borrower (with Golem on top) + Deathmantle
Grand Architect + Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas + Staff of Domination (make Staff an artifact creature and gain infinite life or draw entire deck to find other combo piece)
Skill Borrower is a card that is very experimental at this point but I can see it snatching up wins. Its interaction with Grand Architect and especially Academy Ruins just shouldn't be overlooked. Its addition adds more depth to the win-cons this deck is capable of.
As for the Gifts piles, here's just a few examples to get some combo pieces not necessarily showing the exact pile but just naming cards that can be utilized:
Getting Academy Ruins: Academy Ruins/Expedition Map/Snapcaster Mage/Grim Discovery/Noxious Revival
Getting an artifact combo piece with Academy Ruins in play: Artifact needed/Fabricate/Grim Discovery (if artifact needed is a creature)/Noxious Revival/Snapcaster Mage (to flashback Revival/Discovery/Fabricate)
Getting a spell for combo: Spell needed/Noxious Revival/Snapcaster Mage/Grim Discovery (for SM), TforK, etc.
You get the picture. In fact due to the intricate interactions here and multiple win-cons, a lot of times you can probably duke a person into giving you want you need off a Gifts just cause they won't have a clue what you're trying to pull off.
Other card considerations: Unburial Rites (and splashing white) Disciple of the Vault (Another on-color win-con with the Golem/Deathmantle combo) Fabricate (yeah it's currently in there but not sure how good it will be...I think maybe I could do without it) Treasure Mage (a singleton just to add more depth to Gifts piles to get the Golem)
And on the whole, I considered a U/W build instead of black. In the end though, I really like the removal that black adds. Snapcaster Mage and Slaughter Pact are best friends
However I also appreciate what white offers too. Path, O-ring, Wrath, DoJ...ah well, I'll see how this goes first.
Open to all comments, feel free to pick it up and test it too!
OK, man this took a while...been stewing this in my head for a while. I wanted to get some solid testing in before posting but I just don't have time right now in this part of the season.
I'm going for a Gifts/TfK build with this, which coincidentally might be a little more viable with the Zoo shake-up, but we'll see. I went U/B. I'll list some of the interactions below.
As with all the other decklists, there are multiple win-cons but pretty much this deck's main engines involve Grand Architect and/or Academy Ruins. They are pretty much the most important elements and every win-con (except the Golem/Deathmantle combo) requires their influence.
So here are the win-cons:
Grand Architect + Pili Pala + BSZ/Emrakul/Staff of Domination
Composite Golem + Nim Deathmantle + BSZ/Emrakul/Staff of Domination
Grand Architect + Skill Borrower (with Staff on top)
Grand Architect + Skill Borrower (with Golem on top) + Deathmantle
Grand Architect + Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas + Staff of Domination (make Staff an artifact creature and gain infinite life or draw entire deck to find other combo piece)
Skill Borrower is a card that is very experimental at this point but I can see it snatching up wins. Its interaction with Grand Architect and especially Academy Ruins just shouldn't be overlooked. Its addition adds more depth to the win-cons this deck is capable of.
As for the Gifts piles, here's just a few examples to get some combo pieces not necessarily showing the exact pile but just naming cards that can be utilized:
Getting Academy Ruins: Academy Ruins/Expedition Map/Snapcaster Mage/Grim Discovery/Noxious Revival
Getting an artifact combo piece with Academy Ruins in play: Artifact needed/Fabricate/Grim Discovery (if artifact needed is a creature)/Noxious Revival/Snapcaster Mage (to flashback Revival/Discovery/Fabricate)
Getting a spell for combo: Spell needed/Noxious Revival/Snapcaster Mage/Grim Discovery (for SM), TforK, etc.
You get the picture. In fact due to the intricate interactions here and multiple win-cons, a lot of times you can probably duke a person into giving you want you need off a Gifts just cause they won't have a clue what you're trying to pull off.
Other card considerations: Unburial Rites (and splashing white) Disciple of the Vault (Another on-color win-con with the Golem/Deathmantle combo) Fabricate (yeah it's currently in there but not sure how good it will be...I think maybe I could do without it) Treasure Mage (a singleton just to add more depth to Gifts piles to get the Golem)
And on the whole, I considered a U/W build instead of black. In the end though, I really like the removal that black adds. Snapcaster Mage and Slaughter Pact are best friends
However I also appreciate what white offers too. Path, O-ring, Wrath, DoJ...ah well, I'll see how this goes first.
Open to all comments, feel free to pick it up and test it too!
IMO, more lands are necessary. I, too, began building with 22 lands, but I found myself mana-screwed so often that I rose the land count to 23, and then to 24... and that taking Simulacrum and Chalice into account!
The rest of the deck looks great, though Skill Borrower is still a big question mark; only testing will tell how good he really is. Increasing the number of Noxious Revival for him would be cool, though, as it lets him mimic Grand Architect with more consistency.
I really like the Gifts idea, but I'm saving Gifts for my next deck.
Speaking of testing, I'm finding it hard to test my decks, too; there are no Modern tournaments in my city and most of my matches are against casual players.
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The card nearly every spoiled Magic player dreams of:
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
I've had the Golem Mantle combo for a long time, but never delved into Architect and Pili until recently. Am trying something a little more... radical. Combo out under after transmuting for pieces, or take a shortcut with Gifts; lock them out of a color, or 'transfigure' your guys with a Pod under Abolisher. Still needs work.
Whilst it was fun to draw your entire deck and play Blightsteel-> Cackling Counterpart+Flashback+Phyrexian Metamorph (or Pentavus... was a lot of tokens, believe me), I've decided to try setup with Abolisher and just Memnarch everything to my side of the table instead.
I'm really liking Pentad Prism, it's like a color fixing Uber-Chalice that allows for a lot of shenanigans. It also allows you to combo on turn three with counter backup if you havent missed a land drop (or just combo if you did miss), an amazing feat. Have been tempted to throw in Tezzeret's Gambit for card draw, but won't for the time being.
Phyrexian Metamorph means I can Pod away a spare Architect to cancel out an opponents Legendary creature, or just act as #2/3 of anything else in the list.
Dimir Infiltrator can transmute for Pili, or be Podded into Architect. If Pili is extracted (by Earwig Squad, or Memoricide, etc), then Dimir can at least tap for mana and aim for Pentavus/Memnarch (if not busy being a 2/4 Unblockable).
Birds Pod into 2 drops, etc.
It may be painfully obvious that this was made in a multiplayer environment, but am kind of hoping that it can still compete in a 1v1. Any ideas or suggestions?
I've had the Golem Mantle combo for a long time, but never delved into Architect and Pili until recently. Am trying something a little more... radical. Combo out under after transmuting for pieces, or take a shortcut with Gifts; lock them out of a color, or 'transfigure' your guys with a Pod under Abolisher. Still needs work.
Whilst it was fun to draw your entire deck and play Blightsteel-> Cackling Counterpart+Flashback+Phyrexian Metamorph (or Pentavus... was a lot of tokens, believe me), I've decided to try setup with Abolisher and just Memnarch everything to my side of the table instead.
I'm really liking Pentad Prism, it's like a color fixing Uber-Chalice that allows for a lot of shenanigans. It also allows you to combo on turn three with counter backup if you havent missed a land drop (or just combo if you did miss), an amazing feat. Have been tempted to throw in Tezzeret's Gambit for card draw, but won't for the time being.
Phyrexian Metamorph means I can Pod away a spare Architect to cancel out an opponents Legendary creature, or just act as #2/3 of anything else in the list.
Dimir Infiltrator can transmute for Pili, or be Podded into Architect. If Pili is extracted (by Earwig Squad, or Memoricide, etc), then Dimir can at least tap for mana and aim for Pentavus/Memnarch (if not busy being a 2/4 Unblockable).
Birds Pod into 2 drops, etc.
It may be painfully obvious that this was made in a multiplayer environment, but am kind of hoping that it can still compete in a 1v1. Any ideas or suggestions?
May I see the rest of the manabase? The deck looks cool, but I can't shake off the feeling that Birds and Pentad Prism alone are not enough to handle a 4-color deck.
I don't think Dimir Infiltrator does enough to justify the black splash; Vedalken Engineer might be a fine replacement, being able to tap for mana without Architect support. In fact, I could imagine this scenario: tap Engineer for two mana, use one mana and 2 life to Pod it, then bring Architect and make 2 more, netting you 3 mana in total. The only downside is that it can't be transmuted into Pili.
Etherium Sculptor is also nice on that slot.
Also, as bad as Pili is in multiples, I'd still strongly recommend raising its numbers to 3-4. Because Pili/Architect is your only combo, you'll want to maximize your chances of finding it.
Iona and Pentavus seem out of place in this deck... is there any combo with Pentavus here that I'm not seeing? As for Iona, she's good for wrecking opposing decks, but if you're using something that expensive, you're better off using something that will win the game on the spot, like Emrakul (a hardcast Emrakul is usually a GG, or a dead/permanently crippled opponent in a multiplayer table).
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The card nearly every spoiled Magic player dreams of:
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
I've had the Golem Mantle combo for a long time, but never delved into Architect and Pili until recently. Am trying something a little more... radical. Combo out under after transmuting for pieces, or take a shortcut with Gifts; lock them out of a color, or 'transfigure' your guys with a Pod under Abolisher. Still needs work.
Whilst it was fun to draw your entire deck and play Blightsteel-> Cackling Counterpart+Flashback+Phyrexian Metamorph (or Pentavus... was a lot of tokens, believe me), I've decided to try setup with Abolisher and just Memnarch everything to my side of the table instead.
I'm really liking Pentad Prism, it's like a color fixing Uber-Chalice that allows for a lot of shenanigans. It also allows you to combo on turn three with counter backup if you havent missed a land drop (or just combo if you did miss), an amazing feat. Have been tempted to throw in Tezzeret's Gambit for card draw, but won't for the time being.
Phyrexian Metamorph means I can Pod away a spare Architect to cancel out an opponents Legendary creature, or just act as #2/3 of anything else in the list.
Dimir Infiltrator can transmute for Pili, or be Podded into Architect. If Pili is extracted (by Earwig Squad, or Memoricide, etc), then Dimir can at least tap for mana and aim for Pentavus/Memnarch (if not busy being a 2/4 Unblockable).
Birds Pod into 2 drops, etc.
It may be painfully obvious that this was made in a multiplayer environment, but am kind of hoping that it can still compete in a 1v1. Any ideas or suggestions?
Yeah, what is your win-con? Memnarch?
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I don't recall ever hearing about this rule. If your opponent can't stop it, good game!
I used to run with an old infinite combo with Enduring Renewal, Aluren, and Mogg Fanatic back in the day in a multiplayer game. Fun times
That sounds like a "house rule." There's effects that say "Use this ability only once per turn" but I don't think there ever was a rule that said you can only go "infinite" 4 times and then you have to stop.
Love the enthusiasm for the deck! I think it has potential too.
Just a couple things though...this is intended for the Modern format which includes cards from Mirrodin up through the most recent MTG set as well as the Core Sets from 8th Edition up through the most recent set (M12). Unfortunately Dark Ritual is not Modern legal, and for that matter, Demonic Tutor isn't either. Maybe you're getting it confused since both of those cards have been printed in the "modern" card frame in the Divine vs. Demonic duel deck. Special printings such as Duel Decks, From the Vault, Premium Deck Series, etc, can include cards from any set in MTG history but the individual cards contained in them don't overrule their legality in the various formats.
And actually, this deck already has some great acceleration even without Dark Ritual in the form of tapping blue creatures with Grand Architect.
As for Rune-Scarred Demon, it is an interesting choice for this deck I guess as a way to find a card you're looking for, but for the most part, Fabricate or one of the transmuters already does a great job of that since you'll mostly be looking for an artifact to get the combos going. Once the combos are going, there's ways to get what you need in hand.
Also, how were you planning on reanimating the Demon repeatedly? The Nim Deathmantle/Composite Golem combo reanimates the Golem only because the activated ability from the Golem pays for its own recursion.
In my opinion, the Demon just doesn't fit into the overall game plan of this deck. But please stick around and offer any other ideas or decklists you might have for this deck. I should be posting a preliminary decklist shortly.
Pretty much any sac outlet will do, in that case... but alongside the Golem/Deathmantle combo, such sac outlets usually end up becoming win cons on their own (Blasting Station, Nantuko Husk, Bloodthrone Vampire... you name it), so using them with the Demon is somewhat redundant (as they say, a "win-more" situation), because you already have everything you need to win.
The Demon looks cool alongside Heartless Summoning; a 5/5 flier and a Diabolic Tutor for :3mana::symb::symb:? Yes, please!
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
If you lack enough Titans and need a board sweeper (this deck absolutely needs one for emergencies), you could use Divine Reckoning; it's not very used because of its "flaw" (it lets one dude live on the other side), but it's still a board sweeper that can be used twice, which is good: add 2-3 copies and you can sweep the board up to 4-6 times. I chose Oblivion Stone both because the Titan can get it back and because my deck consistently generates enough mana to cast and pop it on the same turn without much effort. You could also use Black Sun's Zenith to sweep.
I've had a soft spot for this deck ever since I pulled off the combo for the first time, in a multiplayer table. It was beautiful: Zenith myself to draw my deck, Zenith two opponents and hardcast Emrakul to deal with the last one (I don't lose to decking because the Zenith gets shuffled back into the deck).
Obviously, my opponents didn't enjoy it; they got so mad that they ganged up on me on the following match.
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
5 Plains
9 Island
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Mystic Gate
2 Academy Ruins
Creatures (18)
2 Sun Titan
3 Drift of Phantasms
4 Grand Architect
2 Pili-Pala
4 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Composite Golem
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Fabricate
3 Blue Sun's Zenith
4 Everflowing Chalice
2 Nim Deathmantle
2 Oblivion Stone
1 Staff of Domination
I cut 1 O-Stone, 1 Titan and the Azure Mage for 3 Drift of Phantasms; I'm still trying to find room for Tezzeret (maybe lower the number of Simulacrum/Chalice for that).
Hey, PoppaAdat, I'd still like to see your list!
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
Haha, yeah i would too...just picked up a pretty huge freelance job that's been eating a lot of my free time. But I'm finishing it up this week so I should post soon. I wanted to at least test it a little bit before posting but I think I might just take a stab at it and see what everyone thinks.
Glad to see you updated your list, I was wondering if anyone was still interested in the deck idea
Open the Vaults is totally dependant on how the opponent is dealing with your combo (unless you're dumping artifacts and enchantments into the graveyard yourself); as such, it's too unreliable.
If the opponent is running Path to Exile for removal, or trying to murder you before you go off (or both, in Zoo's case), for example, Open the Vaults is a dead card most of the time.
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
OK, man this took a while...been stewing this in my head for a while. I wanted to get some solid testing in before posting but I just don't have time right now in this part of the season.
I'm going for a Gifts/TfK build with this, which coincidentally might be a little more viable with the Zoo shake-up, but we'll see. I went U/B. I'll list some of the interactions below.
4 Grand Architect
3 Skill Borrower
2 Pili Pala
2 Composite Golem
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Nim Deathmantle
1 Staff of Domination
1 Expedition Map
Spells (17)
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Gifts Ungiven
2 Blue Sun's Zenith
2 Go for the Throat
1 Noxious Revival
1 Dismember
1 Damnation
1 Fabricate
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Grim Discovery
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Lands (22)
2 Academy Ruins
2 Tolaria West
As with all the other decklists, there are multiple win-cons but pretty much this deck's main engines involve Grand Architect and/or Academy Ruins. They are pretty much the most important elements and every win-con (except the Golem/Deathmantle combo) requires their influence.
So here are the win-cons:
Grand Architect + Pili Pala + BSZ/Emrakul/Staff of Domination
Composite Golem + Nim Deathmantle + BSZ/Emrakul/Staff of Domination
Grand Architect + Skill Borrower (with Staff on top)
Grand Architect + Skill Borrower (with Golem on top) + Deathmantle
Grand Architect + Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas + Staff of Domination (make Staff an artifact creature and gain infinite life or draw entire deck to find other combo piece)
Skill Borrower is a card that is very experimental at this point but I can see it snatching up wins. Its interaction with Grand Architect and especially Academy Ruins just shouldn't be overlooked. Its addition adds more depth to the win-cons this deck is capable of.
As for the Gifts piles, here's just a few examples to get some combo pieces not necessarily showing the exact pile but just naming cards that can be utilized:
Getting Academy Ruins: Academy Ruins/Expedition Map/Snapcaster Mage/Grim Discovery/Noxious Revival
Getting an artifact combo piece with Academy Ruins in play: Artifact needed/Fabricate/Grim Discovery (if artifact needed is a creature)/Noxious Revival/Snapcaster Mage (to flashback Revival/Discovery/Fabricate)
Getting a spell for combo: Spell needed/Noxious Revival/Snapcaster Mage/Grim Discovery (for SM), TforK, etc.
You get the picture. In fact due to the intricate interactions here and multiple win-cons, a lot of times you can probably duke a person into giving you want you need off a Gifts just cause they won't have a clue what you're trying to pull off.
Other card considerations:
Unburial Rites (and splashing white)
Disciple of the Vault (Another on-color win-con with the Golem/Deathmantle combo)
Fabricate (yeah it's currently in there but not sure how good it will be...I think maybe I could do without it)
Treasure Mage (a singleton just to add more depth to Gifts piles to get the Golem)
And on the whole, I considered a U/W build instead of black. In the end though, I really like the removal that black adds. Snapcaster Mage and Slaughter Pact are best friends
However I also appreciate what white offers too. Path, O-ring, Wrath, DoJ...ah well, I'll see how this goes first.
Open to all comments, feel free to pick it up and test it too!
IMO, more lands are necessary. I, too, began building with 22 lands, but I found myself mana-screwed so often that I rose the land count to 23, and then to 24... and that taking Simulacrum and Chalice into account!
The rest of the deck looks great, though Skill Borrower is still a big question mark; only testing will tell how good he really is. Increasing the number of Noxious Revival for him would be cool, though, as it lets him mimic Grand Architect with more consistency.
I really like the Gifts idea, but I'm saving Gifts for my next deck.
Speaking of testing, I'm finding it hard to test my decks, too; there are no Modern tournaments in my city and most of my matches are against casual players.
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
Whilst it was fun to draw your entire deck and play Blightsteel-> Cackling Counterpart+Flashback+Phyrexian Metamorph (or Pentavus... was a lot of tokens, believe me), I've decided to try setup with Abolisher and just Memnarch everything to my side of the table instead.
I'm really liking Pentad Prism, it's like a color fixing Uber-Chalice that allows for a lot of shenanigans. It also allows you to combo on turn three with counter backup if you havent missed a land drop (or just combo if you did miss), an amazing feat. Have been tempted to throw in Tezzeret's Gambit for card draw, but won't for the time being.
Phyrexian Metamorph means I can Pod away a spare Architect to cancel out an opponents Legendary creature, or just act as #2/3 of anything else in the list.
Dimir Infiltrator can transmute for Pili, or be Podded into Architect. If Pili is extracted (by Earwig Squad, or Memoricide, etc), then Dimir can at least tap for mana and aim for Pentavus/Memnarch (if not busy being a 2/4 Unblockable).
Birds Pod into 2 drops, etc.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Grand Architect
2 Dimir Infiltrator
2 Pili Pala
2 Azure Mage
3 Grand Abolisher
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Pentavus
1 Memnarch
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Pentad Prism
1 Birthing Pod
Spells (9)
2 Perplex
2 Gifts Ungiven
1 Unburial Rites
1 Noxious Revival
1 Fabricate
2 Spell Pierce
1 Academy Ruins
1 Tolaria West
It may be painfully obvious that this was made in a multiplayer environment, but am kind of hoping that it can still compete in a 1v1. Any ideas or suggestions?
May I see the rest of the manabase? The deck looks cool, but I can't shake off the feeling that Birds and Pentad Prism alone are not enough to handle a 4-color deck.
I don't think Dimir Infiltrator does enough to justify the black splash; Vedalken Engineer might be a fine replacement, being able to tap for mana without Architect support. In fact, I could imagine this scenario: tap Engineer for two mana, use one mana and 2 life to Pod it, then bring Architect and make 2 more, netting you 3 mana in total. The only downside is that it can't be transmuted into Pili.
Etherium Sculptor is also nice on that slot.
Also, as bad as Pili is in multiples, I'd still strongly recommend raising its numbers to 3-4. Because Pili/Architect is your only combo, you'll want to maximize your chances of finding it.
Iona and Pentavus seem out of place in this deck... is there any combo with Pentavus here that I'm not seeing? As for Iona, she's good for wrecking opposing decks, but if you're using something that expensive, you're better off using something that will win the game on the spot, like Emrakul (a hardcast Emrakul is usually a GG, or a dead/permanently crippled opponent in a multiplayer table).
Jace's Trolling ---
Instant
Split Second
Exile target spell, then return Jace's Trolling to its owner's hand.
"Yeah, sure... when pigs fly."
-Mark Rosewater about printing this card
Yeah, what is your win-con? Memnarch?