I don't mean to insult, but are you playing her correctly?
Do you run 10+ fetchlands? (hopefully)
Do you use her ability at end of opponent's turn? (hopefully)
Do you think that because she's targeted constantly she's bad? (hopefully not)
Do you think that a threat that gets bigger and bigger is bad? (hopefully not)
I just feel that i would prefer to be tapping out every single turn, and tapping out on turn 3 for a big guy that has to live for a turn to really be anything better than just a big guy is worse than tapping out for 2 slightly smaller guys, or a 2 drop and holding up path
[EDIT: I'm not saying its a bad card, I just think that it has been consistently unimpressive on the draw, and tapping out for it on turn 3 and getting it pathed feels way way worse than tapping out for tarmogoyf turn2 and getting it pathed]
I just feel that i would prefer to be tapping out every single turn, and tapping out on turn 3 for a big guy that has to live for a turn to really be anything better than just a big guy is worse than tapping out for 2 slightly smaller guys, or a 2 drop and holding up path
[EDIT: I'm not saying its a bad card, I just think that it has been consistently unimpressive on the draw, and tapping out for it on turn 3 and getting it pathed feels way way worse than tapping out for tarmogoyf turn2 and getting it pathed]
Well, there is a reason goyf is $100 and kotr is $10. Other than the reprint factor. Goyf is the most efficient beater ever printed. Comparing them is silly. You can't run more than 4 goyf. Nevertheless, when kotr sticks, she speeds up your clock big time, and when she's pathed, your (possibly bigger) goyf lives to see another day.
Just got done with a daily on mtgo and went 3-1 with boom/bust zoo. Won vs WW, affinity, and shaman. Lost to public enemy #1, G 12post. With wall of roots and overgrown battlement, this is a tough matchup. Any ideas what we can do to improve it? I didn't lose to eldrazi, it was Titan and wurmcoil. Ran same list as what I posted on pg 16 with a slightly different side board. Tonight my board was:
Well, there is a reason goyf is $100 and kotr is $10. Other than the reprint factor. Goyf is the most efficient beater ever printed. Comparing them is silly. You can't run more than 4 goyf. Nevertheless, when kotr sticks, she speeds up your clock big time, and when she's pathed, your (possibly bigger) goyf lives to see another day.
To be fair, a certain sorcery does let you play 4 more goyfs at the three drop, if one prefers!
Just got done with a daily on mtgo and went 3-1 with boom/bust zoo. Won vs WW, affinity, and shaman. Lost to public enemy #1, G 12post. With wall of roots and overgrown battlement, this is a tough matchup. Any ideas what we can do to improve it? I didn't lose to eldrazi, it was Titan and wurmcoil. Ran same list as what I posted on pg 16 with a slightly different side board. Tonight my board was:
Were you running Blood Moon mainboard? I have found that Magus of the Moon holds up stronger to mono-green since they can't seem to kill it (unlike Blood Moon which they can grip/etc.)
I just feel that i would prefer to be tapping out every single turn, and tapping out on turn 3 for a big guy that has to live for a turn to really be anything better than just a big guy is worse than tapping out for 2 slightly smaller guys, or a 2 drop and holding up path
[EDIT: I'm not saying its a bad card, I just think that it has been consistently unimpressive on the draw, and tapping out for it on turn 3 and getting it pathed feels way way worse than tapping out for tarmogoyf turn2 and getting it pathed]
I disagree with your point of view on KotR, but I understand what you are saying. The thing is, I rarely ever tap out on turn 3 for the Knight. A turn one hierarch allows you to play knight on turn 2, gaining instant board advantage in most cases. Decks running Green Zun's Zenith can also GSZ for dryad arbor and get the Knight out turn 2 as well.
Knight of the Reliquary is one of the best creatures in the format IMHO.
- Need an early game threat? Check
- Need a late game top deck that speeds up the clock? Check
- Need mana fixing? Check
- Need something that gets bigger as the game goes on? Check
- Need more creatures? Go get a manland
- Need something to deal with those pesky decks/combos that revolve around the graveyard? Go get bojuka bog
- How about something to deal with 12post? Go get Tectonic Edge/Ghost Quarter
There are better options out there when it comes down to straight aggro creatures, but the sheer utility and power that the Knight provides in this deck simply can't be replaced.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig courtesy of the wonderful mchief111 over at Rising Studios
THIS 100X!!! If you don't agree with this then there is no amount of logic that will ever convince you that good, non-oppressive, combos should be allowed. If you don't agree with it then just don't play this game, and you certainly shouldn't feel entitled to make any comment on ban lists ever.
The list has had fairly good matchups against the NLB PLB varients, different forms of RUG control, Gifts Rock and Gifts RUG, BUG varients, Doran. I feel like some of the board cards are unneeded, but flames of the bloodhand were always a beating against g 12 post.
"Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the relevation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." H.P. Lovecraft
With zenith I have found burning-tree shaman to be a very good tutor target as it stops splinter twin and through the breach from going off while being immune to their common removal of choice, firespout/bolt.
@ oatus - pretty sweet but i am considering a 3rd journey over it since dismember doesnt kill titans or huge KoTR. The deck itself is amazing not many decks can beat a t2 blood moon or t2 boom +fetch followed by bbe.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the relevation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." H.P. Lovecraft
The only reason I decided on zoo is because I just started playing MTGO again and found out I had 4 Tarmogoyfs and a lot of the more expensive cards for it. Anyway, I tested the build a few times and kinda liked it, except I couldn't figure out what Ranger of Eos was for, so I replaced it with an extra Damping Matrix. (Someone feel free to fill my noob self in.) Here's my list:
Anyway, I've entered a bunch of DEs over the last week and 3-1 in half of them (never got to 4-0, although I misplayed badly one of the times I got to 3-0), so I feel this is a pretty capable deck given I don't have that much experience piloting it and I'm not that good a player.
I am barely over 50-50 against 12post, which is annoying because we have so much maindeck hate for it. It seems to me that I pretty much need to start with Blood Moon or Boom/Bust in hand to reliably beat it.
Also, the maindeck hate against 12post makes Boom/Bust weaker if 12post goes down in the meta. It was still the most common 4-0 deck in today's DEs though.
Standard Mono-Green Aggro Modern :symb::0mana: Dark Affinity | :symu::symr: UR Breach | :symb::symr: Dark Burn Casual :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Bruna Reanimator (Standard) My LGS is Asgard Games in Houston, TX.
The only reason I decided on zoo is because I just started playing MTGO again and found out I had 4 Tarmogoyfs and a lot of the more expensive cards for it. Anyway, I tested the build a few times and kinda liked it, except I couldn't figure out what Ranger of Eos was for, so I replaced it with an extra Damping Matrix. (Someone feel free to fill my noob self in.) Here's my list:
Anyway, I've entered a bunch of DEs over the last week and 3-1 in half of them (never got to 4-0, although I misplayed badly one of the times I got to 3-0), so I feel this is a pretty capable deck given I don't have that much experience piloting it and I'm not that good a player.
I am barely over 50-50 against 12post, which is annoying because we have so much maindeck hate for it. It seems to me that I pretty much need to start with Blood Moon or Boom/Bust in hand to reliably beat it.
Also, the maindeck hate against 12post makes Boom/Bust weaker if 12post goes down in the meta. It was still the most common 4-0 deck in today's DEs though.
it refills your hand after being wrathed while giving you a body to attack with.
Also. anyone who missed out on ghost quaters due to the tag, they are getting Reprinted in INN so there you go.
Your 1 Drop Zoo deck
Should have 4 Ancient Grudge SB for the Chalice and for Affinity matchups.
Your Blue Zoo deck
Has Jitte in it.
If I had to pick a Zoo deck, I'd go with Dark Zoo. The DC and Lavamancers are so brutal. That's what turned the tide in the matchup with Hig in the 7th Round during yesterday's PE (I was playing Jund)
I don't mean to insult, but are you playing her correctly?
Do you run 10+ fetchlands? (hopefully)
Do you use her ability at end of opponent's turn? (hopefully)
Do you think that because she's targeted constantly she's bad? (hopefully not)
Do you think that a threat that gets bigger and bigger is bad? (hopefully not)
I have to go on the record and say I too am not impressed with Knight in zoo (I do however think its an amazing creature, I just think it belongs in bant or maverik type decks, not zoo.)
I do run over 10 fetches, so that isn't a problem. I think my main problem is that I don't run GSZ or Noble, so Knight is a three drop for me. IMO one big strength of zoo is every card you play is a threat. A turn one Noble followed by a turn 2 knight means you have 1 threat on board, as opposed to turn one nacatl followed by turn 2 goyf means 2 threats. Also noble is a bad topdeck when you are looking for a way to press through the last few damage you need.
I also very rarely find myself in locked board positions where I am leaving a knight back and activating it end of opponent's turn. I usually try and swing in, force what damage I can and go for the burn out. She is to slow for a very aggressive deck, the same reason why I don't run Elspeth or anything higher then a 2 drop. They might win in the late game, but that's not where we want to try and win.
Why don't we have even one copy of Proclamation of Rebirth in any of these decklists? It's the best card in 1-drop Zoo, and is only better with Ranger (though many seem to think it's a choice between them apparently).
Any thoughts here? Proclamation was good enough to make its own Zoo archetype a reality in Legacy, and gives MODERN Zoo the type of stability it more or less needs. It's also an absolutely epic beating in the mirror.
Last daily event I played in I tried Aven Mindcensor in my sideboard to help in the Mono G 12Post matchup. It helped a lot in the 12Post matchup and was suprised my how many other decks it was good against. I know it cost 3 mana and for the suprise factor you have to leave mana open but even playing it main phase puts a damper on a lot of decks. I'm going to try it again in my next daily event. What are some thoughts?
I also finally found a Dark Zoo decklist I could actually get behind. I've said in the past that I don't think it's worth the shaky mana base to splash for Bobs, but with Tribal Flames in the deck and without the threat of Wasteland, it seems to be much easier to pull off. I'll be testing this in addition to the usual Fast-Zoo deck I usually run:
I don't know how I feel about the 4x Chalice in the SB, I'd rather fight that card than include it, so a couple Ancient Grudge would go into those slots. Also, I'm not sure how strong or necessary Might of Alara is, so that could potentially change as well in the side. The maindeck might want one or two more lands for consistency, but otherwise looks very consistent. I'm still not sure if having to run half-color Shocklands and a black splash is more effective than traditional Naya, but this is definitely how I'd want to build a Dark Zoo list. Blood Moon still hurts this deck something fierce though.
I like Higdur's SB better, but would still want at least a couple Ancient Grudge or possibly even a Disenchant for Chalice and Blood Moon. Can anyone explain what Might of Alara gets sided in against? The Mirror perhaps?
That looks almost identical to the list i posted. And besides for the lands the list i played in legacy. It is very powerful. As for the sb though i would strongly suggest 4 thoughtseize.
yes
typically in response to path
no
no
I just feel that i would prefer to be tapping out every single turn, and tapping out on turn 3 for a big guy that has to live for a turn to really be anything better than just a big guy is worse than tapping out for 2 slightly smaller guys, or a 2 drop and holding up path
[EDIT: I'm not saying its a bad card, I just think that it has been consistently unimpressive on the draw, and tapping out for it on turn 3 and getting it pathed feels way way worse than tapping out for tarmogoyf turn2 and getting it pathed]
Well, there is a reason goyf is $100 and kotr is $10. Other than the reprint factor. Goyf is the most efficient beater ever printed. Comparing them is silly. You can't run more than 4 goyf. Nevertheless, when kotr sticks, she speeds up your clock big time, and when she's pathed, your (possibly bigger) goyf lives to see another day.
CG
3 ancient grudge
3 ethersworn canonist
2 gaddock teeg
1 bojuka bog
3 path to exile
3 kitchen finks
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Repost this if ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ you are a beautiful strong black woman ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ who don’t need no man ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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Infraction for spam/asking others to spam.
- Kors
:symw::symu: Delver
:symr::symb::symw: Stone-Blade
EDH:
:symr::symu::symb: Thraximundar
Norin the wary
:symr::symw: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Relentless Rats.deck
To be fair, a certain sorcery does let you play 4 more goyfs at the three drop, if one prefers!
Were you running Blood Moon mainboard? I have found that Magus of the Moon holds up stronger to mono-green since they can't seem to kill it (unlike Blood Moon which they can grip/etc.)
I disagree with your point of view on KotR, but I understand what you are saying. The thing is, I rarely ever tap out on turn 3 for the Knight. A turn one hierarch allows you to play knight on turn 2, gaining instant board advantage in most cases. Decks running Green Zun's Zenith can also GSZ for dryad arbor and get the Knight out turn 2 as well.
Knight of the Reliquary is one of the best creatures in the format IMHO.
- Need an early game threat? Check
- Need a late game top deck that speeds up the clock? Check
- Need mana fixing? Check
- Need something that gets bigger as the game goes on? Check
- Need more creatures? Go get a manland
- Need something to deal with those pesky decks/combos that revolve around the graveyard? Go get bojuka bog
- How about something to deal with 12post? Go get Tectonic Edge/Ghost Quarter
There are better options out there when it comes down to straight aggro creatures, but the sheer utility and power that the Knight provides in this deck simply can't be replaced.
Burning-Tree Shaman beats Splinter Twin, if you encounter a lot of that.
Love,
Earthbound
Modern Daily #2739348 on 08/26/2011
Main Deck
60 cards
4 Arid Mesa
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
21 lands
4 Dark Confidant
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Loam Lion
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
24 creatures
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Might of Alara
4 Molten Rain
4 Tribal Flames
15 other spells
Sideboard
4 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Path to Exile
2 Ranger of Eos
4 Tidehollow Sculler
15 sideboard card
any thoughts on this deck 3-1 to MODO daily's.
Modern
R/ Boros W/
U/ Eldrazi-Post G/
Top 8'd:
2x Tcg Player Qualifiers
1x MWS Series Trial
Top'16:
PTQ Austin
PTQ Paris
Extended:
RIP
Legacy: Zoo
"I am the beast of America"
Props to Hakai Studios for the banner
[EDIT: 12 fetches, no Steppe Lynx also seems pretty weird]
4 Lighting Helix
3 Punishing Fire
3 Path to Exile
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Noble Hiearch
4 Kavu Predator
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Green Sun Zenith
2 Firey Justice
4 Arid Mesa
2 Verdant Catacomb
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Stomping Ground
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Grove of the Burnwillow
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Flames of the Blood-hand
3 Blood Moon
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Path to Exile
2 Molten Rain
1 Teeg
1 Maliera
1 Taraju Preserver
The list has had fairly good matchups against the NLB PLB varients, different forms of RUG control, Gifts Rock and Gifts RUG, BUG varients, Doran. I feel like some of the board cards are unneeded, but flames of the bloodhand were always a beating against g 12 post.
Please use deck tags.
best, counter, ever.
4 Arid Mesa
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Noble Heirarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Qasali Pridemage
// Spells (16)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Boom/Bust
3 Blood Moon
2 Journey to Nowhere
2 Lightning Helix
1 Dismember
3 Rule of Law
2 Lightning Helix
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Path to Exile
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Blood Moon
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Qasali Pridemage
"Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the relevation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." H.P. Lovecraft
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
"Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality that we shall either go mad from the relevation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." H.P. Lovecraft
CG
If that was Higdur's Dark Zoo list, he also won the PE today, over Exarch Twin.
I netdecked a list by Ali Mirghahari I found on scg. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=40330
The only reason I decided on zoo is because I just started playing MTGO again and found out I had 4 Tarmogoyfs and a lot of the more expensive cards for it. Anyway, I tested the build a few times and kinda liked it, except I couldn't figure out what Ranger of Eos was for, so I replaced it with an extra Damping Matrix. (Someone feel free to fill my noob self in.) Here's my list:
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
Spells
3 Blood Moon
3 Temporal Isolation
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
4 Boom / Bust
2 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
2 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
1 Treetop Village
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Damping Matrix
3 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Ranger of Eos
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Lightning Helix
2 Path to Exile
1 Volcanic Fallout
2 Gaddock Teeg
Anyway, I've entered a bunch of DEs over the last week and 3-1 in half of them (never got to 4-0, although I misplayed badly one of the times I got to 3-0), so I feel this is a pretty capable deck given I don't have that much experience piloting it and I'm not that good a player.
I am barely over 50-50 against 12post, which is annoying because we have so much maindeck hate for it. It seems to me that I pretty much need to start with Blood Moon or Boom/Bust in hand to reliably beat it.
Also, the maindeck hate against 12post makes Boom/Bust weaker if 12post goes down in the meta. It was still the most common 4-0 deck in today's DEs though.
Modern :symb::0mana: Dark Affinity | :symu::symr: UR Breach | :symb::symr: Dark Burn
Casual :symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Bruna Reanimator (Standard)
My LGS is Asgard Games in Houston, TX.
it refills your hand after being wrathed while giving you a body to attack with.
Also. anyone who missed out on ghost quaters due to the tag, they are getting Reprinted in INN so there you go.
Should have 4 Ancient Grudge SB for the Chalice and for Affinity matchups.
Your Blue Zoo deck
Has Jitte in it.
If I had to pick a Zoo deck, I'd go with Dark Zoo. The DC and Lavamancers are so brutal. That's what turned the tide in the matchup with Hig in the 7th Round during yesterday's PE (I was playing Jund)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
I have to go on the record and say I too am not impressed with Knight in zoo (I do however think its an amazing creature, I just think it belongs in bant or maverik type decks, not zoo.)
I do run over 10 fetches, so that isn't a problem. I think my main problem is that I don't run GSZ or Noble, so Knight is a three drop for me. IMO one big strength of zoo is every card you play is a threat. A turn one Noble followed by a turn 2 knight means you have 1 threat on board, as opposed to turn one nacatl followed by turn 2 goyf means 2 threats. Also noble is a bad topdeck when you are looking for a way to press through the last few damage you need.
I also very rarely find myself in locked board positions where I am leaving a knight back and activating it end of opponent's turn. I usually try and swing in, force what damage I can and go for the burn out. She is to slow for a very aggressive deck, the same reason why I don't run Elspeth or anything higher then a 2 drop. They might win in the late game, but that's not where we want to try and win.
Currently playing
R/W/B Midrange
Modern:
Looking into U/W/R Tempo
Legacy:
Canadian Threshold (RUG Tempo)
EDH:
Horde of Notions (5 Color ETB abuse)
And My Lovely Powered Cube
Abolish the Reserve List!
Any thoughts here? Proclamation was good enough to make its own Zoo archetype a reality in Legacy, and gives MODERN Zoo the type of stability it more or less needs. It's also an absolutely epic beating in the mirror.
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
2 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Kird Ape
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
4 Tribal Flames
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Might of Alara
4 Molten Rain
The deck was posted here: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/2739364
I don't know how I feel about the 4x Chalice in the SB, I'd rather fight that card than include it, so a couple Ancient Grudge would go into those slots. Also, I'm not sure how strong or necessary Might of Alara is, so that could potentially change as well in the side. The maindeck might want one or two more lands for consistency, but otherwise looks very consistent. I'm still not sure if having to run half-color Shocklands and a black splash is more effective than traditional Naya, but this is definitely how I'd want to build a Dark Zoo list. Blood Moon still hurts this deck something fierce though.
EDIT: I guess this is basically the same list as Higdur's winning deck at the Premier. http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/2739338
I like Higdur's SB better, but would still want at least a couple Ancient Grudge or possibly even a Disenchant for Chalice and Blood Moon. Can anyone explain what Might of Alara gets sided in against? The Mirror perhaps?
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
That looks almost identical to the list i posted. And besides for the lands the list i played in legacy. It is very powerful. As for the sb though i would strongly suggest 4 thoughtseize.